The regions in steep decline?...

As it says in the title! Are our regions in Wales in steep decline?

Looking at the results so far this season the answer would have to be a certain, YES. The quality of rugby currently being displayed by the regions is in the realms of poor to average. Glimpses of rugby brilliance is also apparent with the Ospreys and Scarlets the clear front runners in the Welsh game.

The Ospreys started the season poorly, lacking cohesion and firepower. The pack were outmuscled and backs lacking the direction and skill set it seemed to carry out simple moves. In recent weeks the Ospreys pack has returned to the form shown at the end of last season. Adam Jones & Ryan Jones have certainly bolstered the pack and their leadership and impact has been significant in the Ospreys turnaround in performances.

Dan Biggar is finally living up to the promise shown back in 2008 at U20 level. His kicking is now accurate, handling assured, composure, discipline and attack has also vastly improved. Ashley beck is a certain international while Foutalili is in his best Ospreys form. Webb, Dirksen and Walker may also be destined for greater things? But all in good time.....

Players of real Quality: Bevington, Hibbard, A Jones, Ian Evans, Alyn Wyn Jones, R Jones, Tupuric, Foutalili, Biggar, Webb, Dirksen, Walker and Beck.

The Scarlets started the season with a bang. Their obvious strengths lie within the backs with arguably the best backline in the pro 12 and probably one of the best in the Heineken cup. Their forwards have recently been mullered by, again, possibly the best pack in the Heineken cup (Clermont). And here lies the problem. A lack of an out and out 7 & 8 with a front 5 lacking the size to challenge at the highest level.

Players of real quality: Rees, owens, Shingler, Lee, Knoyle, G Davies, Priestland, S Williams, North, L Williams, J Davies and Stoddart.

The Dragons & Blues: Easily the worst 2 welsh sides although difficult to identify exactly who? If pushed i would say the Dragons. The dragons are poorly equipped in terms of playing personnel and I feel the coaching set up lacks intelligence. Their forward pack is woeful with the obvious exceptions while their backline lacks any real talent.

Dragons Players if Quality:: Lydiate, Faletau, Lewis Evans

The Blues are simply struggling. They have a backline that could sparkle given they are relieved of injuries and are given a good platform. The forwards have been mullered several times this season with the scrum being their achilles heal.

Players of Quality:[/b] B Davies, Reed, Warbuton, pretorius, Navidi, Tovey, Roberts, Cuthbert, Halfpenny.

What I have tried to highlight is the players that can clearly live with regional rugby and may have future international honours. I am not proclaiming that I have pinpointed every player so please feel free to suggest others. But what is clear to see is the regions are in decline due to the current playing ability they have at their disposal.

In the past, Welsh regions were criticised for buying overseas players or building a galacticos. I feel Wales as a country need to reduce the amount of fully fledged regions to three, while a fourth team would consist of; academy players from all FOUR regions, future stars and some old heads to bring them on.

We need to save money and localise more welsh internations to fewer teams. It is obvious this article will upset a few people and I sympathise. I believe the Dragons are the region who have to be dropped with further investment going into the remaining three.

If we don't we will continue to suffer in the heineken cup and continue to lose our top players to foreign climbs.

Looking forward to some balanced, intelligent comments!

"We need to save money and localise more welsh internations to fewer teams."

You mean like we did with regionalism? Then when those players leave and the talent doesn't come through reduce to 2? then to one welsh club team, maybe the English would be kind enough to let our one welsh club into their 2nd tier comp....

Thank god you don't run the WRU, we're on our way out as it is!!!

haha yet your suggestion of 12 teams shorely wouldnt bankrupt the WRU?

A real intelligent comment. The idea would be to increase the amount of money we could invest into the remaining 3 regions. Centralise contracts and still run a north & south wales development region for young developing players?

Central contracts with more money from the WRU (which might be on the horizon as we've seen with Jamie Roberts) is definitely the way to go.

Bluesman - as I've told ya before I think the idea of the WRU having the money, players, coaches, facilities and so on for 12 teams is laughable.

Dodger, Just made the same point on bluesmans thread. I think the only way forward is to reduce the money spread. Centralise contracts and keep our big guns.

And STOP employing has beens!

It is hardly laughable, the amount of money needed to run a small prof sports team on a budget is very acheivable, hell the Valleys idea isn't far out and thats with public investing their own money!!

The WRU wouldn't have to cripple themselves to impliment it at all, but they would have to invest initially, maybe run a kind of investment system where they receive repayments at a rate of interest.

Anyway my point is unless we set up a stable prem and develop enough talent to stay sustainable we are on a slope to extinction!!

Permian

If you centralise more the talent will still run out, then you'll want to centralise again, until the welsh national team is a club side playing in the Aviva!!!!

We cannot produce enough talent now without losing another academy system!!!!

I think bluesman, we are identifying the same problem but looking at it in 2 seperate ways.

Pros for my idea:

1- More investment into remaining regions while keeping a developement side where all 3 regions can develop players.

2- Centralise welsh internationals and reduce the spread meaning better quality and more successful teams.

3- Reduce the amount of has beens in the welsh game.

4- More investment into quality overseas players to aid the development of our regions.

4*** although this point may seem hypocritical it is ridiculous to assume we can centralise all welsh internationals. Maybe a pool of 21 players for example. We have to surround them with quality and if that be from abroad where we can still compete (i.e. NZ, Oz & SA) then so be it.

Bluesman, it would be interesting to identify whether the same prem teams were consistently producing internationals. If so having 12 prem teams would be useles.

I would bet that swansea, pontypridd, cardiff, neath and newport all produced the most amount of internationals. The other 7 teams producing maybe 1 or 2 at best.

Oh and Llanelli

You do make a good point mate, if the same clubs produced the players year in year out the trend would be recognisable.

But even if lesser players were playing week in week out against these top players the depth of welsh rugby quality would still be raised.

If we went to 3 regions which would you be considering? Losing the Dragons, in which case another investor and group of fans would add to the valleys movement to hate club rugby in Wales!

IMO if we managed a 12 prem prof league wales would be galvanised, short term our compatitiveness would decrease, but long term the benefits would be huge. Opposite to the regional idea, short term squads were excellent, but long term the idea is unravelling at the seems!!!

There are only two significant reasons why the regions are not performing. The most important is a lack of money. Some of the best Welsh payers have left and there is no money to replace them. The gates are not sufficient to sustain the 4 regions and we rely on a few rich owners puting their own money in. The WRU has not structured the regions to provide more funding. Central contracting is essential.

The second key reason is p*** poor coaching in Wales. None of our lot would get a director of rugby role in England or France.

The idea that we could sustain 12 professional clubs is indeed laughable. There is nothing wrong with the current system of feeder clubs bringing players through. The problem is that our regions can't compete with squads in France and England with big salaries.

The total squad quality of our combined 4 regions is at an all time low. It will not improve fast enough without a change of plan and structure led by the WRU. I'm not convinced anyone there has the required vision or skill to do it.

None of our lot would get a director of rugby role in England or France.

ummmmm...

Regarding your comments on squads not being competitive you are bang on, but then how can you say the current system of feeder clubs is ok???

Money is not the be all and end all, Irish players get offers as big as the welsh boys, but arent interested because of their pride of their province (in which they identify) and tradition!!!

Permian. I've got to pick you up on the Dragons back-line lacking any real quality!! Prydie and Dan Evans have been superb so far this season. Adam Hughes is a young, talented centre who scored a superb solo try last night and will push for the Weldh squad. We have young Jack Dixon who again scored last night and is one to watch for the future. Trouble is, our dire front 5 can't give us a platform to actually allow our backs any quality ball. Behind the scrum we have no guidance or leadership from our half backs, they're just kids. Just look at how Priestland came on because he had Stephen jones to tutor him. Behind the scrum we've got pace to burn but until we get competitive up front and actually have a functioning set-piece, we're screwed!

MOG

Do you think lesser players have an advantage with older heads to guide them, such as RP had in Jones, or Warbs had in Williams?

Will Stef reach the heights of his potential, or will the young exciting backline just lack any real direction (or defencive capability) throughout their careers?

IMO Prydie and Evans have been let go by their regions, and once again the dragons are picking them up in hope theyll develop into the real deal, rather than having a plan in place to develop them. I don't think either will make the welsh squad at the dragons (No offence)

I think that it's definitely got to help having experienced heads to help guide the kids. Martyn Williams and Warburton is evidence of that. There can't be anything better for a very talented youngsters than working alongside world class players. Learning from the master has surely helped Warburton develop more quickly.
Steff's no doubt got talent, so too did Tovey, but Tovey had a poor year last season. Maybe the time was right for him to move. Maybe he'd just gone stale at the Dragons. Steff is in at the deep end and will learn quickly, but him and Robling are two talented youngsters whoa are playing behind a beaten pack for 98% of their games, so life will be hard for them.
The problem we have is, if they're good enough, they're gone by 23. Lydiate and Faletau will follow Brew, Tovey and Charteris. If they're not good enough at 23 , they stay eg Ashley Smith, Wayne Evans. We don't really have many great players in their late 20's, which is when players are peaking. We get has-beens when the other regions are done with them eg Sidoli and Adam Jones.
You're spot on. We take what we can get. The Scarlets didn't need Evans as he'd slipped down the pecking order. I think we've done a great bit of business in getting Prydie though. The looks very capable. From his point of view, he's probably thinking he'll get 1st team rugby and that puts him in the shop window for a move and hopefully back into the welsh squad. I think Adam Hughes and Prydie will be on the summer tour.
Haven't seen much of a plan from Edwards yet!!

MOG

Couldnt agree more, but Tovey might prove your point exactly. Looked excellent initially, struggled at FB for a while then all of a sudden progress seemed to stop, maybe attributed to no old head to learn from and no gametime in which to highlight his abilities, the pack gets beaten up and the backline spend most of their time walking back and fore before defending HARD!!!

Do you think a newport team with a third of the dragons squad, playing in a prof prem with Prydie and Evans on either wing would help the wingers abilities, getting more ball from a more competitive pack week in week out, scoring more tries and travelling much less to play local rivals and old enemies???

They'd obviously benifit from getting more ball. The Dragons are pretty much the last resort. If you're not offered a better deal elsewhere, you know the Dragons will take you. You know the regions are in trouble when the likes of Richie Rees joins Edinburgh. Frickin Edinburgh. Mitchell goes to Exeter and Bennett goes to Lyon in French league 2. They've gone to those teams because they need to make the most out of a short career. Eg. Richie Rees will be playing HC rugby (not for too long!) and will be looked after by Edinburgh. If he came to the Dragons, he'd be at the base of a team with the worst scrum in Europe, playing in the Amlin and at the foot of the Rabies league. Do Zebre even count?!?!

IMO Rees shouldve been offered a large contract at the Blues, Williams is nowhere near good enough.

But your right, Phillips couldn't get a club for a while and went to relegation possibles in france, Rees and Yapp went to Edinburgh...

Infact the Dragons could have had a side looking like...

Yapp
Bennet
Mitchell
Charteris
Jones
Lydiate
Delve
Falatau
Roberts/Rees
Mcload/Jones
Brew
Henson
Hughes
Evans
Prydie

Had they had any money, a few of those players couldne afford to stay, some forced out and some looking to earn before retirement.

Hate to say it as a Dragons fan, but I wouldnt be upset if Toby and Danny left. We're holding them back and they deserve better. Faletau could lose his welsh place, playing at the back of our pack. They deserve better. Much much better.

Maybe but it's the huge investment the dragons have put into them that made them what they are!!!

Also without p[layers like that where are the top class players going to come through, they need to play and learn with the best!!!

The same old story. They'll both be out of the Dragons soon. They will play their best rugby elsewhere and the Dragons will end up with more youngsters or has-beens.

You sound about as optimistic as I am....

Just to say. When you said about travelling much less. The Dragons boys didn't get back from the Wasps game until 4.30. M4 was closed and the boys weren't had a long night on the coach.

Did they really?

I hadn't heard that, will have to send a text and ask if they slep well ha ha ha!!!!

I think it's a somewhat ideal notion that home grown players will stick around for the pride of the jersey. Rugby is an international professional market and if we in Wales can't compete then we can't expect to hang on to our best players.

There's no point in wishing it were different....we have no option but to compete or we will have to get used to being a second tier nation. So far, Wales has done "ok" out of the regional structure even if the regions have had limited success. IMO that's not sustainable. Long term, we will only have a competitive national team if the professional game in Wales is thriving.

Can't see where this 'steep decline' idea comes from. We're very early in the season and it appears business as usual. Nothing noticeably different from the previous decade of 'regional' rugby.

As mentioned above, at least now there are less overseas journeymen clogging up the squads which, long term, will mean home grown talent gets more of a chance.

That can only be a good thing for Welsh rugby.

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Money is not the be all and end all, Irish players get offers as big as the welsh boys, but arent interested because of their pride of their province (in which they identify) and tradition!!!

Drivel.

They stay because of their tax break.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Permian

If you centralise more the talent will still run out, then you'll want to centralise again, until the welsh national team is a club side playing in the Aviva!!!!

We cannot produce enough talent now without losing another academy system!!!!

Moving to a 3+1 investment system, with payments a la the RFU / PRL agreement, will allow the artificially low salary cap to rise.

That way we could see return the Welsh players who have left for England and France. That alone would strengthen our 3 teams incredibly.

Oh, and this drive to employ Welsh coaches who have a Level 5 WRU coaching badge is just crazy.

thebluesmancometh wrote:MOG

Do you think a newport team with a third of the dragons squad, playing in a prof prem with Prydie and Evans on either wing would help the wingers abilities, getting more ball from a more competitive pack week in week out, scoring more tries and travelling much less to play local rivals and old enemies???

I don't agree, ok they may get more games, but between Europe, Pro 12, LV=cup, BandI cup, and inter-regional 'A' comp. they are plenty of games for they to play, and all of those would be level or better than the Welsh Prem.

The regions idea was to have the best players, playing with the best and against the best, that way they would improve more.

A Newport team with a third of the dragons squad, would be a worse team, and a good player in a decent team will improve quicker with team mates of an equal level, who are on the same wavelength and can play the better rugby, and while the pack may be more competitive against weak oppsition, when it steps up to Europe it will be hammered, better for it to learn in Pro12 that its no good and try to improve it, then to think its good in Welsh prem and then be demolished in Europe.

Personnaly going back to Clubs would be the wrong option for Wales, Ireland Proves that contentrated teams can perform in Europe, Wales shows that this feeds the National team very well.

Could be a coaches issue, Ireland good Provinicial coaches, Questionable national coach, for Wales the reverse maybe true (bit early to judge some, and Easterby seams to be doing well).

Lets see waht the PWC report says, and see if we agree with it, as the move forward.

manofgwent wrote:Permian. I've got to pick you up on the Dragons back-line lacking any real quality!! Prydie and Dan Evans have been superb so far this season. Adam Hughes is a young, talented centre who scored a superb solo try last night and will push for the Weldh squad. We have young Jack Dixon who again scored last night and is one to watch for the future. Trouble is, our dire front 5 can't give us a platform to actually allow our backs any quality ball. Behind the scrum we have no guidance or leadership from our half backs, they're just kids. Just look at how Priestland came on because he had Stephen jones to tutor him. Behind the scrum we've got pace to burn but until we get competitive up front and actually have a functioning set-piece, we're screwed!

Well said.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

manofgwent wrote:Permian. I've got to pick you up on the Dragons back-line lacking any real quality!! Prydie and Dan Evans have been superb so far this season. Adam Hughes is a young, talented centre who scored a superb solo try last night and will push for the Weldh squad. We have young Jack Dixon who again scored last night and is one to watch for the future. Trouble is, our dire front 5 can't give us a platform to actually allow our backs any quality ball. Behind the scrum we have no guidance or leadership from our half backs, they're just kids. Just look at how Priestland came on because he had Stephen jones to tutor him. Behind the scrum we've got pace to burn but until we get competitive up front and actually have a functioning set-piece, we're screwed!

Well said.

Aye plus one

You could also yourself this - do you think the Rabo League is constructed right?

Would a system like Super15 where AUS/NZ/SA teams play 16 intensive games where the best players play week in week out. Second part of the season you would then have a 6 team Currie Cup style competition where you could add 2 teams, one from North and one from the Valleys.

It would condense down the best players and would mean you'd have more derby games to get greater attendances.

Kingshu wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:MOG

Do you think a newport team with a third of the dragons squad, playing in a prof prem with Prydie and Evans on either wing would help the wingers abilities, getting more ball from a more competitive pack week in week out, scoring more tries and travelling much less to play local rivals and old enemies???

I don't agree, ok they may get more games, but between Europe, Pro 12, LV=cup, BandI cup, and inter-regional 'A' comp. they are plenty of games for they to play, and all of those would be level or better than the Welsh Prem.

The regions idea was to have the best players, playing with the best and against the best, that way they would improve more.

A Newport team with a third of the dragons squad, would be a worse team, and a good player in a decent team will improve quicker with team mates of an equal level, who are on the same wavelength and can play the better rugby, and while the pack may be more competitive against weak oppsition, when it steps up to Europe it will be hammered, better for it to learn in Pro12 that its no good and try to improve it, then to think its good in Welsh prem and then be demolished in Europe.

Personnaly going back to Clubs would be the wrong option for Wales, Ireland Proves that contentrated teams can perform in Europe, Wales shows that this feeds the National team very well.

Could be a coaches issue, Ireland good Provinicial coaches, Questionable national coach, for Wales the reverse maybe true (bit early to judge some, and Easterby seams to be doing well).

Lets see waht the PWC report says, and see if we agree with it, as the move forward.

Well said Kingshu...!

Kingshu wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:MOG

Do you think a newport team with a third of the dragons squad, playing in a prof prem with Prydie and Evans on either wing would help the wingers abilities, getting more ball from a more competitive pack week in week out, scoring more tries and travelling much less to play local rivals and old enemies???

I don't agree, ok they may get more games, but between Europe, Pro 12, LV=cup, BandI cup, and inter-regional 'A' comp. they are plenty of games for they to play, and all of those would be level or better than the Welsh Prem.

The regions idea was to have the best players, playing with the best and against the best, that way they would improve more.

A Newport team with a third of the dragons squad, would be a worse team, and a good player in a decent team will improve quicker with team mates of an equal level, who are on the same wavelength and can play the better rugby, and while the pack may be more competitive against weak oppsition, when it steps up to Europe it will be hammered, better for it to learn in Pro12 that its no good and try to improve it, then to think its good in Welsh prem and then be demolished in Europe.

Personnaly going back to Clubs would be the wrong option for Wales, Ireland Proves that contentrated teams can perform in Europe, Wales shows that this feeds the National team very well.

Could be a coaches issue, Ireland good Provinicial coaches, Questionable national coach, for Wales the reverse maybe true (bit early to judge some, and Easterby seams to be doing well).

Lets see waht the PWC report says, and see if we agree with it, as the move forward.

Well said Kingshu...!

You could also ask yourself this - do you think the Rabo League is constructed right?

Would a system like Super15 where AUS/NZ/SA teams play 16 intensive games where the best players play week in week out. Second part of the season you would then have a 6 team Currie Cup style competition where you could add 2 teams, one from North and one from the Valleys.

It would condense down the best players and would mean you'd have more derby games to get greater attendances.

Consider that most of the top nations use a regional/provincial/franchised system rather than a club system.

Rugby is not soccer, it does not have the market or the finances.

I am sure that in the next decade we will the game in England and France face massive problems because the rugby is too expensive trying to use the soccer-esq system they have. Currently only three or four teams in Europe are run and can run successfully.

In contrast we will see all the Welsh regions turn profits not loses and improve in Europe within five years, due to opting for a sensible sustainable future with the regions.

It may have taken a long time to get the regions right, but the efforts currently being made are definitely the good result of trial and error gone right.

cp10 wrote:You could also ask yourself this - do you think the Rabo League is constructed right?

Would a system like Super15 where AUS/NZ/SA teams play 16 intensive games where the best players play week in week out. Second part of the season you would then have a 6 team Currie Cup style competition where you could add 2 teams, one from North and one from the Valleys.

It would condense down the best players and would mean you'd have more derby games to get greater attendances.

Good point too.

The construction and the timing of various cups leagues and Internationals could all be much better organised.

Kingshu wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:MOG

Do you think a newport team with a third of the dragons squad, playing in a prof prem with Prydie and Evans on either wing would help the wingers abilities, getting more ball from a more competitive pack week in week out, scoring more tries and travelling much less to play local rivals and old enemies???

I don't agree, ok they may get more games, but between Europe, Pro 12, LV=cup, BandI cup, and inter-regional 'A' comp. they are plenty of games for they to play, and all of those would be level or better than the Welsh Prem.

The regions idea was to have the best players, playing with the best and against the best, that way they would improve more.

A Newport team with a third of the dragons squad, would be a worse team, and a good player in a decent team will improve quicker with team mates of an equal level, who are on the same wavelength and can play the better rugby, and while the pack may be more competitive against weak oppsition, when it steps up to Europe it will be hammered, better for it to learn in Pro12 that its no good and try to improve it, then to think its good in Welsh prem and then be demolished in Europe.

Personnaly going back to Clubs would be the wrong option for Wales, Ireland Proves that contentrated teams can perform in Europe, Wales shows that this feeds the National team very well.

Could be a coaches issue, Ireland good Provinicial coaches, Questionable national coach, for Wales the reverse maybe true (bit early to judge some, and Easterby seams to be doing well).

Lets see waht the PWC report says, and see if we agree with it, as the move forward.

Completely agree with Kingshu here, and posted similar on the Dragons thread yesterday. However, where we disagree is on the welsh prem. I think that needs to be developed more, akin to the New Zealand ITC league. Then, the cream get selected to represent the region. Maybe they're moving towards this with a ringfenced prem? However, the difficulty is in funding. Unless you can afford to pay players a good wage in the second tier they're not going to stick around.

Griff
"However, where we disagree is on the welsh prem. I think that needs to be developed more, akin to the New Zealand ITC league."

I would say this would be Ideal too, but I don't think the WRU can support the regions to the level they need to be (H-cup knock out round contenders or winners) and keep a strong Prem.
Rather than picking the cream of th ePrem for the regions, reduce funding to the Welsh Prem increase it to Regions. Regions then have bigger Squads to develop players, in BandI cup (use regional 'A' teams instead of Welsh Prem), LV=cup as well and the InterRegional 'A' games. This sould improve the strength in depth quicker as players again are concentrated together in better teams as playing better opposition than Welsh prem.

Suppose this is closer to Irish model rather than NZ model, but it would be the cheaper option.

Is it more important to have the good regionals, or a good semi pro league? I don't think th eWRU can have both. It may help the rtegions become accepted as the level above which some Welsh clubs havn't accepted as yet, an dincrease attendance, then maybe in future if regions become more self sufficient, return funding back toward Prem.

It all sounds good. ITM is a great model, if the Prem could even get close to that quality Wales would have a long prosperous future. So would Wales and the Regions.

Only issues occur with Regions not supplying players when Prem teams need them, or supplying them to the wrong teams.

Matt Morgan who was the darling of Swansea fans a few years back was playing for Bridgend last weekend when the Os played Zebre.

Should their be faith in upholding players roots or should the regions dispense spare players willy nilly as they feel...?

Could do Like Scotland, and let the clubs in the region, have a Draft system, turn about picking them for the year, when Region releases them for a weekend they go to that club.

I was thinking do the WRU underfund the regions in comparison to the other Pro 12 Unions?

The SRU is funding the 2 Pro teams now to so they are (I think) close to the English salary cap, IRFU fund Provinces pretty well s they are (about or maybe slighty over English salary cap), FIR I think fund the new teams pretty well, but don't know figures.

So in Comparision if SRU can fund the 2 Pro teams, (who have lower attendances and less other income than the regions) to about English salary cap, can the WRU (who have recorded record turnover, SRU haven't), not look to be funding the regions more?

Would extra funding improve regions?

I think investing in the levels beow regional level is more prudent and the likely direction of the WRU.

Improve the quality and quantity of players below regional from schools rugby up, by improving the facilities and the coaching and we will have a bright future.

That will do far more for all levels of welsh rugby.

The WRU have said quite firmly that they will not try to compete with the French or English big spenders.

Very premature outburst PErmian. You don't have to read the entire article to know that. You just need to stop reading at "Players of real quality - Walker." It was obvious the French were going to be dominating the European competition now that the top teams are more settled than previous seasons and they have class from jerseys 1-44. Three of the top premiership teams impressed on the opening weekend, as you would expect. They should also do well with what's available to them in terms of players, but that still pale's in comparison to the French. The Welsh are back at square one. All that is required is that they improve the quality of the forwards (Blues and Dragons. Scarlets are on their way there) and that they keep hold of their best players. As usual it all comes down to the pound or euro. We don't have either in abundance, hence why we are trying to emualte the NZ rugby model. Ireland have done there's very well but it also has it's flaws.

I'm quite happy with our Regions at the moment. We have developed some great youngsters over the past 5-6 years and the system is bearing fruit at international level. Perhaps more so than any other nation in the NH. Success at Regional level however will require a little more investment and IMO I think this will be on its way from the WRU in the next few years. Its just that we have to start somewhere and be fiscally astute all round and then evolve from there. I think we're in a great position. The top HC teams have 5-6 top SH players in their teams and this comes at a price both financially and a price that you're not developing your own talent. If success at international level means we have to cope with some difficult times at Regional level then for me that is a price that's really worth paying.

The shrink has spoken.

Was thinking of changing my name to the "Voice of Reason" Morg

I was under the impression that "Voice of Reason" was Morg's trademark around ere, you know, because I'm always right.

My apologies Morg - I will just be "The Voice" then. Joking aside those are my very serious views on welsh rugby - People are getting a little hysterical about success at Regional level. Irish teams won the HC for the past few years and might win again this year, would any welshman really want to swap places with their international side?. I'll take success on the bigger stage every day and IMO most welsh fans would be the same - a sense of realism is required at Regional level - Saying that the O's went and beat the HC winners in their own back yard to win the Rabo so on occasion we're having our cake and eating it

Morgannwg wrote:I was under the impression that "Voice of Reason" was Morg's trademark around ere, you know, because I'm always right.

In my experience, pretty much every poster on here believes that they're always right.

And the poster "thevoiceofreason" was permanently banned in March while "voiceofreason" went the same way in Feb. The member "the voice of reason" last visited the site in April, 2 years after joining, and has never actually posted!

Not the most auspicious of usernames