British and Irish Lions Watch 2012-13

by maestegmafia Mon 15 Oct - 12:32

First topic message reminder :

This thread started many months back and has been a gradual examination of who is picking who for the impending Lions Tour.

Now the Six Nations is over and all we have left to judge is the HEC and the various national leagues.

by maestegmafia Wed 12 Dec - 9:26

yappysnap wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:SKY Sports Lions after the last HEC rounds

2 - Rob Buchanan (Harlequins) Average Score 6.9

Paul wallace says: Rory Best may be third on the list but he has been out with injury for some time - he looks to be getting back to his best, he had a big performance against Northampton.
Second: Richardt Strauss - 6.5
Third: Rory Best - 6.2

Love it, Rob Buchanan for the first and potentially only time in his career gets a bit of recognition in the press for the sterling work he's been doing for us out of no where and all flaming Paul I can't not talk about Irish players Wallace can do is talk up Best, who came third!

Its a points system where all the pundits are rating players and what you are seeing as scores are an average of those pundits votes, divided by the number of pundits and added on to previous weeks scores. So Best and Strauss are there not because of "Paul I can't not talk about Irish players Wallace ", but as the general consensus of all the Sky Sports pundits.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 12 Dec - 10:14

Maesteg, that wasn't his point. The point was that instead of talking about the hooker who was highest rated by the pundits who is a young man in a unique position from his point of view, they chose to focus on the third best by their own votes which is odd

by maestegmafia Wed 12 Dec - 10:33

ChequeredJersey wrote:Maesteg, that wasn't his point. The point was that instead of talking about the hooker who was highest rated by the pundits who is a young man in a unique position from his point of view, they chose to focus on the third best by their own votes which is odd

Well it is Sky TV. Try watching it from a non English perspective and you'll want to explode at the lack of interest that SKY generally show to us.

I guess, and I really don't mean to sympathise with Sky Sports, that Best was part of one of the weekends big games, Buchanan was part of one of the secondary red button games....?

by ChequeredJersey Wed 12 Dec - 11:00

Oh certainly Best is more high profile and in a much more important game, and I understand why he's been referred to as our match was a far easier one than Ulster's but I also share a bit of Yappy's frustration that Quins are under the radar despite results in all 3 competitions and how it sometimes feels that our players are only open to criticism not credit in certain areas. But it's also nice yo be under the radar and I can only hope European opponents underestimate the team

by Geordie Wed 12 Dec - 11:20

You may think im completely wrong but i think Quins suffer a lttle from being a very powerful unit...where maybe individuals dont stand out..

Eg...Individually im not a huge fan of Robson or Gray...yet as part of this very effective 8 unit they are excellent. They get about their business very effectively as a unit, each know their roles and jobs...without any individual stars...(i appreciate Marler and Robshaw possibly fill that role)

If anything i believe Lancaster is trying to play that type of game with England...a more drilled efficient effective team...

Where as Best gets the accolades as Ulster have more stand out individuals...

Did i explain that correctly? Headscratch

by ChequeredJersey Wed 12 Dec - 11:24

There is certainly some truth in that, GF

by bluestonevedder Wed 12 Dec - 11:42

Good point GF

by maestegmafia Wed 12 Dec - 17:37

BBC Pundits teams

Jeremy Guscott's team: R Kearney (Ire), T Visser (Sco), B O'Driscoll (Ire), M Tuilagi (Eng), G North (Wal); J Sexton (Ire), D Care (Eng); C Healy (Ire), R Best (Ire), A Jones (Wal), R Gray (Sco), G Parling (Eng), T Croft (Eng), S Armitage (Eng), D Denton (Sco).

Keith Wood's team: L Halfpenny (Wal), T Bowe (Ire), M Tuilagi (Eng), B O Driscoll (Ire), G North (Wal); J Sexton (Ire), B Youngs (Eng); C Healy (Ire), R Best (Ire), A Jones (Wal), R Gray (Sco), C Lawes (Eng), S Ferris (Ire), S Warburton (Wal), S O'Brien (Ire).

Andy Nicol's team: A Goode (Eng), T Bowe (Ire), M Tuilagi (Eng), J Roberts (Wal), T Visser (Sco); J Sexton (Ire), B Youngs (Eng); G Jenkins (Wal), D Hartley (Eng), D Cole (Eng), R Gray (Sco), C Lawes (Eng), S Ferris (Ire), S O'Brien (Ire), T Faletau (Wal).

Jonathan Davies's team: R Kearney (Ire), T Bowe (Ire), J Davies (Wal), M Tuilagi (Eng), G North (Wal); J Sexton (Ire), D Care (Eng); C Healy (Ire), D Hartley (Eng), A Jones (Wal), J Launchbury (Eng), AW Jones (Wal), T Wood (Eng), S Warburton (Wal), B Morgan (Eng). * Updated 14:51 GMT Monday

by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 12 Dec - 18:41

Sexton & Tuilagi are the only unanimous picks of the BBC pundits.

At this moment in time they are destined to be in the starting team. I would like to see Farrell continue his form from the NZ game & apply a bit more of a selection dilemma. But when Flood is fit he may well get the nod in the 6Ns ahead of Farrell.

by HammerofThunor Wed 12 Dec - 18:47

yappysnap wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:SKY Sports Lions after the last HEC rounds

2 - Rob Buchanan (Harlequins) Average Score 6.9

Paul wallace says: Rory Best may be third on the list but he has been out with injury for some time - he looks to be getting back to his best, he had a big performance against Northampton.
Second: Richardt Strauss - 6.5
Third: Rory Best - 6.2

Love it, Rob Buchanan for the first and potentially only time in his career gets a bit of recognition in the press for the sterling work he's been doing for us out of no where and all flaming Paul I can't not talk about Irish players Wallace can do is talk up Best, who came third!

I had a quick look and hooker seems to be the only spot where the quote wasn't about the 1st choice. However I imagine they had quotes for all the pundits for all the players and just picked the one they wanted so you can't blame Wallace.

Quick question regarding Quins. Casson started for you didn't he? But Turner-Hall is second. Is it just based on the one game and did he come on early/play exceptionally?

by Poorfour Wed 12 Dec - 19:23

Turner-Hall played the first two games (Biarritz at home and Connacht away), but is recovering from a knee injury and Quins have sensibly rested him now that Casson is fit.

I think Casson is one to watch, actually. Not the finished article yet, but has a good range of skills and has shown glimpses of real vision.

It's notable that a decent minority of the players who are getting high scores in the Lions watch are not (current) internationals. Easter has put his hand up so high that he's metaphorically jumping up and down on his seat going "Me sir! Me sir!". I'd like to see him tour and to watch the tussle between him and Heaslip for the starting slot.

by Geordie Wed 12 Dec - 20:21

Am I the only one who wouldn't pick any of those pundits teams...

by yappysnap Wed 12 Dec - 20:40

Turner Hall hasn't been on form all season due to his knee, they've been trying to rest him to help it and Casson is potentially a brilliant centre.

I also think that as our game evolves and as we try to find ways around teams bullying us off the park a centre like Casson will become essential.

As to Turner-Hall's game i've heard loads about Hopper but little about him, so maybe he did all his basics well allowing Hopper to shine? (in attack at least.)

Another one to watch soon will be Ross Chisholms little bro, imagine a flanker/8 with Rosses pace but a forwards size and power.

by yappysnap Wed 12 Dec - 20:41

GeordieFalcon wrote:Am I the only one who wouldn't pick any of those pundits teams...

I got to Croft in Guscotts and gave up to be honest!

by yappysnap Wed 12 Dec - 20:45

ChequeredJersey wrote:Maesteg, that wasn't his point. The point was that instead of talking about the hooker who was highest rated by the pundits who is a young man in a unique position from his point of view, they chose to focus on the third best by their own votes which is odd

Exactly, pees me off because the lad is a genuine talent and doing all the right things for us including throwing well, but all Sky can go on about is either Best or Youngs ad nauseum,

by Poorfour Wed 12 Dec - 20:53

yappysnap wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Maesteg, that wasn't his point. The point was that instead of talking about the hooker who was highest rated by the pundits who is a young man in a unique position from his point of view, they chose to focus on the third best by their own votes which is odd

Exactly, pees me off because the lad is a genuine talent and doing all the right things for us including throwing well, but all Sky can go on about is either Best or Youngs ad nauseum,

If Hartley cops a longish ban, it's not impossible that Buchanan could make the EPS. He's young, vying for a starting spot with Gray (who was himself on the fringes of the EPS before he got injured) and Lancaster will have watched him at age grade rugby. Given that there's a bit of a vacuum behind Youngs and Hartley, there's room for someone to make a mark at hooker.

by yappysnap Wed 12 Dec - 20:57

GeordieFalcon wrote:You may think im completely wrong but i think Quins suffer a lttle from being a very powerful unit...where maybe individuals dont stand out..

Eg...Individually im not a huge fan of Robson or Gray...yet as part of this very effective 8 unit they are excellent. They get about their business very effectively as a unit, each know their roles and jobs...without any individual stars...(i appreciate Marler and Robshaw possibly fill that role)

If anything i believe Lancaster is trying to play that type of game with England...a more drilled efficient effective team...

Where as Best gets the accolades as Ulster have more stand out individuals...

Did i explain that correctly?

Yea Quins show what can happen when a gameplan and team ethos are bought in to heart and soul by the players, they can be very new or very experienced but every player plays like a cog in the machine rather then all wanting ro be wheels.

by EnglishReign Wed 12 Dec - 21:08

The Rugby Blog has posted my favourite so far, but I've tweaked a couple:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. Launchbury
6. Ferris
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Faletau
9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Davies
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

16. T Youngs
17. Corbisiero
18. Jones
19. Gray
20. Lydiate/O'Brien
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Visser

by yappysnap Wed 12 Dec - 21:10

Poorfour wrote:
yappysnap wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Maesteg, that wasn't his point. The point was that instead of talking about the hooker who was highest rated by the pundits who is a young man in a unique position from his point of view, they chose to focus on the third best by their own votes which is odd

Exactly, pees me off because the lad is a genuine talent and doing all the right things for us including throwing well, but all Sky can go on about is either Best or Youngs ad nauseum,

If Hartley cops a longish ban, it's not impossible that Buchanan could make the EPS. He's young, vying for a starting spot with Gray (who was himself on the fringes of the EPS before he got injured) and Lancaster will have watched him at age grade rugby. Given that there's a bit of a vacuum behind Youngs and Hartley, there's room for someone to make a mark at hooker.

Isn't he in the current Saxons squad?

by Geordie Wed 12 Dec - 22:43

Englishreign

By that team...we have gone from a distinctly average second row to the Lions second row in four games....

Interesting...

When exactly are the lions Selected...is it just after the 6n...or a bit later..

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Dec - 1:08

FULL-BACKS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: For now, the number 15 jersey belongs to Leigh Halfpenny who was the stand-out player for Wales during the end-of-year internationals. His accuracy from the tee will no doubt be utilised Down Under, whilst his heroic defence has already been noted by the Wallabies. But we won't write off Alex Goode just yet. The England full-back also proved to be hugely effective for his country throughout the November Tests, and whilst he doesn't possess Halfpenny's boot, Goode's breaks certainly provided plenty of go-forward.

On standby: Rob Kearney, Lee Byrne, Simon Zebo

Best make other plans next June: Ben Foden, Stuart Hogg, Rob Miller, Delon Armitage

WINGS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Warren Gatland is spoilt for choice in this department, with usual suspects Tommy Bowe and Alex Cuthbert once again proving to be a huge threat on their respective wings. Andrew Trimble is promoted from last week's standby list thanks to some excellent touches for club and country, whilst full-back cum wing Mike Brown proved he can cause plenty of damage out wide. Craig Gilroy is the new face who leaps ahead of Tim Visser, who revealed some defensive lapses playing for Scotland, and George North.

On standby: Chris Ashton, Tim Visser, George North

Best make other plans next June: Liam Williams, Ugo Monye, Christian Wade, David Strettle, Sean Lamont

CENTRES

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: If Gatland was still debating on whether to play Manu Tuilagi in the B&I Lions' Test or midweek side, his mind was surely made up after the England centre's barnstorming performance against New Zealand. Tuilagi's partner in crime Brad Barritt also proved his worth, though we believe Jamie Roberts still has the inside track for the number 12 jersey with veteran Brian O'Driscoll also a certainty despite playing no part in the November internationals - his wealth of experience is just too much to leave behind. Jonathan Davies squeezes onto the plane Down Under as our fifth centre.

On standby: Scott Williams, Jonathan Joseph, Keith Earls

Best make other plans next June: James Downey, Anthony Allen, Darren Cave, Gordon D'Arcy, Ashley Beck

FLY-HALVES

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Now here's where it gets a whole lot tougher. The battle for the number ten shirt is beginning to really heat up between Ireland pivot Jonathan Sexton and England's Owen Farrell, who was on our standby list as a centre last time out. But it's Sexton's consistency that will in all likelihood win him the nod, as Farrell followed up his dominant display over All Blacks star Dan Carter at Twickenham by missing four out of seven penalties for Saracens a week later. Toby Flood drops to our standby list, and Rhys Priestland falls out completely after suffering an injury setback so go for Jonny Wilkinson.

On standby: Dan Biggar, Greig Laidlaw, Toby Flood, James Hook

Best make other plans next June: Rhys Priestland, Ruaridh Jackson, Ronan O'Gara, Danny Cipriani, Charlie Hodgson, Freddie Burns

SCRUM-HALVES

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: With Mike Phillips battling for form, we could see an Englishman pulling on the famous red jersey if Danny Care and Ben Youngs continue doing what they did for their country for their respective clubs. Greig Laidlaw continues to be a dark horse though, as he can fill in at nine or ten.

On standby: Conor Murray, Danny Care, Tavis Knoyle

Best make other plans next June: Eoin Reddan, Richard Wigglesworth, Lloyd Williams, Lee Dickson

NUMBER EIGHTS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Leinster number eight Jamie Heaslip remains the top contender here, after leading Ireland to that thumping victory over Argentina. Thomas Waldrom topped England's stats against Australia but was dropped for Ben Morgan, whose efforts against South Africa and New Zealand put him on the plane. Despite his national and club sides struggling, Scotland's David Denton clings on to his seat, but James Coughlan and Nick Easter are on the radar after impressive performances in the Heineken Cup.

On standby: James Coughlan, Toby Faletau, Kelly Brown

Best make other plans next June: Peter O'Mahony, Jordan Crane, Nick Easter, Andy Powell

FLANKERS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Tom Wood moves into contention after impressive outings in the November Internationals, with England captain Chris Robshaw alongside him. The two remaining spots are a battle between three players - Stephen Ferris and Sean O'Brien are currently battling back to full fitness and Sam Warburton is hinting at a return to form. For the moment, O'Brien is just edged out.

On standby: Justin Tipuric, Ross Rennie, Sean O'Brien, Dan Lydiate

Best make other plans next June: Tom Johnson, John Barclay, Alasdair Strokosch, Chris Henry, Tom Croft, Ryan Jones, Iain Henderson

SECOND-ROWS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Geoff Parling dropped out of the squad in Edition 3 but comes back in following November. Lions experience however is essential, so Clermont's Nathan Hines travels, along with Alun-Wyn Jones. Much like his Irish team-mates, the longer Paul O'Connell stays sidelined the more his chances diminish. Richie Gray like Denton is stuck in a losing rut with club and country. The final spot is a shootout between Donnacha Ryan and possible bolter Joe Launchbury, with the Irishman edging it.

On standby: Paul O'Connell, Richie Gray, Joe Launchbury, Jim Hamilton, Courtney Lawes

Best make other plans next June: Luke Charteris, Bradley Davies, Al Kellock, Donncha O'Callaghan, Ian Evans, Mike McCarthy

HOOKERS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: With all of the focus on Leinster's duo at hooker, Rory Best returned from injury with a bang against Northampton and secured his spot. That being said, Richardt Strauss will still travel. As for Dylan Hartley, a ban could be on the horizon after yet another citing against an Irish player which could deny him of more valuable game time. Tom Youngs and Sean Cronin are both over his shoulder.

On standby: Tom Youngs, Sean Cronin, Matthew Rees

Best make other plans next June: Ross Ford, Richard Hibbard, David Paice

PROPS

Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Cian Healy currently has the jump on Gethin Jenkins after some strong performances for club and country in recent weeks, whilst Dan Cole's performance against Tony Woodcock hands him the edge over Adam Jones. All four are definities, all four are world-class. Mike Ross should also travel.

On standby: Ryan Grant, Alex Corbisiero, Mako Vunipola

Best make other plans next June: Paul James, Euan Murray, Andrew Sheridan, Tom Court, Joe Marler

by yappysnap Thu 13 Dec - 8:18

Where did you find that one Maes?

by SirBurger Thu 13 Dec - 9:46

EnglishReign wrote:The Rugby Blog has posted my favourite so far, but I've tweaked a couple:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. Launchbury
6. Ferris
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Faletau
9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Davies
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

16. T Youngs
17. Corbisiero
18. Jones
19. Gray
20. Lydiate/O'Brien
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Visser

I like that 23 a lot. The best I have seen so far I think.

by the-goon Thu 13 Dec - 10:14

Hmm

2 FBs
5 Wings
5 Centres
3 FH
3 SH

3 Numbers 8's
4 Flankers
4 SR
3 Hookers
5 Props

So 18 backs and 19 forwards...

Trim 3 backs and add one more prop, the make up of the backrow looks completely imbalanced, 3 specialist 8's...

As for personnel, well who knows really. Depends on form, injuries and the gameplan that will be used. Plenty of games to go...

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Dec - 12:36

yappysnap wrote:Where did you find that one Maes?

http://www.planetrugby.com/lions-09/story/0,25883,16024_8324085,00.html

by Geordie Thu 13 Dec - 13:31

Whilst i appreciate Wales have some top class players ..can someone please tell me the value of Alan Wyn Jones...am i missing something...surely even wales have better Second Rows...i certainly think the lions do.

by lostinwales Thu 13 Dec - 13:38

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whilst i appreciate Wales have some top class players ..can someone please tell me the value of Alan Wyn Jones...am i missing something...surely even wales have better Second Rows...i certainly think the lions do.

When he first appeared he looked like he was going to be something special. Given what the teams he has been in have achieved I guess its a bit churlish to say he hasnt done that but its true. ( I do wonder if Launchbery will go the same way but time will tell)

by bedfordwelsh Thu 13 Dec - 14:11

Geordie,

I think he gets a bit more undeserved stick than he should but I agree that he isn't the best in Wales, for me our best combo is Evans and Charteris and I have said that for some time.

Jones is a good solid international squad player but not the automatic choice most make him and especially not for the Lions.

by maestegmafia Thu 13 Dec - 14:14

bedfordwelsh wrote:Geordie,

I think he gets a bit more undeserved stick than he should but I agree that he isn't the best in Wales, for me our best combo is Evans and Charteris and I have said that for some time.

Jones is a good solid international squad player but not the automatic choice most make him and especially not for the Lions.

I disagree lads. I really rate AWJ. I think he and Charteris at the RWC were superb. They would be my Wales choice.

I am amazed at the amount of pundits and posters who don't see the value in what he does as a player.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 13 Dec - 14:18

Maes,

Don't get me wrong I think he's better than some gibe him credit for but I have always said Evans and Charteris is our best pairing with AWJ backing them up.

When it comes to the Lions I do however think he is some way down the list at least as test team starters, I think like DOC he does make a good tourist

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Dec - 8:54

It will be an interesting call when it comes to selection, ageing warhorses vs unproven new comers and a good number somewhere in between that have not lived up to their reputation.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec - 8:59

a good number somewhere in between that have not lived up to their reputation.

Thats the bracket I would put AWJ in, I don't think he has ever reached the heights many expected from him but he his still a good solid squad member.

by BoyneRFC Fri 14 Dec - 9:01

EnglishReign wrote:The Rugby Blog has posted my favourite so far, but I've tweaked a couple:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. Launchbury
6. Ferris
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Faletau
9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Davies
13. Tuilagi
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

16. T Youngs
17. Corbisiero
18. Jones
19. Gray
20. Lydiate/O'Brien
21. Care
22. Burns
23. Visser

I cannot believe people who would leave SOB off a team. Look at what he did in ASM after a year off. The mans an animal. Hes the 1st inn the team.

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Dec - 9:08

bedfordwelsh wrote:a good number somewhere in between that have not lived up to their reputation.

Thats the bracket I would put AWJ in, I don't think he has ever reached the heights many expected from him but he his still a good solid squad member.

I disagree there mate,

He was outstanding last year, RWC Six Nations and for the Os at home.

Players I would class as under achievers are lads like Lawes and Davies, big boys who impact too little.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec - 9:10

I think most know that the backrow selection is going to be very intriguing and the most contested area of the squad with some top class players missing out.

My personal test back row would be Lydiate Heaslip and Warburton

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Dec - 9:17

Good call, Heaslip is definite front runner for the eight shirt. I don't know about the flanks, Lyds injured Warburton just finding form in the last two games.

The six nations will answer a lot of questions.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec - 9:32

Then there still the likes of SOB, Ferris, Morgan, Robshaw, Woods, Denton, Rennie all who will be in the mix.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 14 Dec - 9:39

Warburtons been terrible in test rugby since the world cup where he doemonstarted his lack of a big game head.
Has his club form done more to justify you falling over him as the Lions 7? A shirt hes not even garunteed for his country?

How about Denton, easily the best ball carrying back row forward over the last year for the Brisish teams.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec - 9:49

PSW,

We all know any team/squad pick now is purely subjective given how far away and how much rugby there is to be played before the tour.

If all 3 were fit and on form then that would be my test backrow but if they not fit or on form then I wouldn't blindly pick them.

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Dec - 9:59

bedfordwelsh wrote:PSW,

We all know any team/squad pick now is purely subjective given how far away and how much rugby there is to be played before the tour.

If all 3 were fit and on form then that would be my test backrow but if they not fit or on form then I wouldn't blindly pick them.

The Scots Backrow candidates have lost a bit of value this Autumn, just like the Welsh.

The English lads have to prove that they can make a decent crack of it as they did against the All Blacks in more than just a one off game.

The Irish look decent enough though, despite injury enforced changes...!

by bluestonevedder Fri 14 Dec - 10:00

Denton and O'Brien in the same backrow would be devastating.

There are so many great backrow combinations, and my choice seems to change with every passing day.

Today for instance, I like the look of:

6. O'Brien
7. Rennie
8. Denton

Tomorrow, it could be very different!

by maestegmafia Fri 14 Dec - 10:04

bluestonevedder wrote:Denton and O'Brien in the same backrow would be devastating.

There are so many great backrow combinations, and my choice seems to change with every passing day.

Today for instance, I like the look of:

6. O'Brien
7. Rennie
8. Denton

Tomorrow, it could be very different!

O'Brien has played one game, Denton and Rennie have not been impressive at all. Last year yes, this year they have done nothing of note.

by bluestonevedder Fri 14 Dec - 10:57

maestegmafia wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:Denton and O'Brien in the same backrow would be devastating.

There are so many great backrow combinations, and my choice seems to change with every passing day.

Today for instance, I like the look of:

6. O'Brien
7. Rennie
8. Denton

Tomorrow, it could be very different!

O'Brien has played one game, Denton and Rennie have not been impressive at all. Last year yes, this year they have done nothing of note.

Maestegmafia, if you'll read up on my post, I actually say it changes everyday. There are too many combinations. No need to be dismissive. It's a forum. I think O'Brien's the best carrying forward in the NH and his performance against Clermont was seriously impressive. Rennie's international stats for this year have been excellent- he's the best poaching 7 in the NH, but combines it with elusive running, and carrying over the gainline. Denton brings a great physcial edge.

I'll get back to you tomorrow, I'll probably have another ideal starting backrow.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 14 Dec - 11:24

Dentons ball carrying has been consitently brilliant up till Tonga. There arent many backrowers who can run through NZ and SA.
The question is can he do anything else or should he play center

by bluestonevedder Fri 14 Dec - 11:33

Agree PSW. I think his main asset is his carrying off the back of the scrum. Against England in the 6N, he was devastating at 8, and our flanks struggled to deal with him. He's pretty decent at the breakdown from what I've seen too, and his hands are decent I think...if any Edinburgh fans can shed some light?

by gregortree Fri 14 Dec - 11:52

WILKO

British and Irish Lions coach Warren Gatland says Jonny Wilkinson is in the frame for the Australia tour, but Toulon's success may hamper his hopes.
Wilkinson's side are five points clear at the top of the French Top 14 and on course for the play-offs. The final takes place on 1 June, the same day as the first match of the Lions' tour in Hong Kong.
"If we take the France-based players, our preferred option is that they are on the plane with us," said Gatland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20717059

by GunsGerms Fri 14 Dec - 12:18

bedfordwelsh wrote:Then there still the likes of SOB, Ferris, Morgan, Robshaw, Woods, Denton, Rennie all who will be in the mix.

Ferris if fit will be starting 6. There is no one better than him at what he does. He terrorised the Aussies all day in Eden park in the world cup.

by yappysnap Fri 14 Dec - 13:32

How can you rule out Denton and Rennie for not being impressive lately but then choose Lydiate (injured) and Warburton (horribly off form).

I think the backrow selection will probably surprise and shock most of us and it's probably the one area of the team that could see players from any country feature in it, which is great.

From the AI's i'd be playing:

6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

But that's only going by the AI's and could change a heck of a lot.

by GunsGerms Fri 14 Dec - 13:41

yappysnap wrote:How can you rule out Denton and Rennie for not being impressive lately but then choose Lydiate (injured) and Warburton (horribly off form).

I think the backrow selection will probably surprise and shock most of us and it's probably the one area of the team that could see players from any country feature in it, which is great.

From the AI's i'd be playing:

6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

But that's only going by the AI's and could change a heck of a lot.

Wood for Ferris. Seriously dont make me laugh.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 14 Dec - 13:45

GunsGerms wrote:
yappysnap wrote:How can you rule out Denton and Rennie for not being impressive lately but then choose Lydiate (injured) and Warburton (horribly off form).

I think the backrow selection will probably surprise and shock most of us and it's probably the one area of the team that could see players from any country feature in it, which is great.

From the AI's i'd be playing:

6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip

But that's only going by the AI's and could change a heck of a lot.

Wood for Ferris. Seriously dont make me laugh.

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