British and Irish Lions Watch 2012-13

First topic message reminder :

This thread started many months back and has been a gradual examination of who is picking who for the impending Lions Tour.

Now the Six Nations is over and all we have left to judge is the HEC and the various national leagues.

Beattie is in great nick this season it's a close run choice between him Heaslip and Faletau at the moment.

Hogg played a good game and I expect to see more good stuff from him, Maitland and Visser.

Gray wasn't as exciting as last year. I am sure there is more to come from him.

maestegmafia wrote:Beattie is in great nick this season it's a close run choice between him Heaslip and Faletau at the moment.

Hogg played a good game and I expect to see more good stuff from him, Maitland and Visser.

Gray wasn't as exciting as last year. I am sure there is more to come from him.

Fair assessment of Scottish hopes/chances, maes such a shame that Rennie is injured - think that effectively rules him completely out

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Beattie is in great nick this season it's a close run choice between him Heaslip and Faletau at the moment.

Hogg played a good game and I expect to see more good stuff from him, Maitland and Visser.

Gray wasn't as exciting as last year. I am sure there is more to come from him.

Fair assessment of Scottish hopes/chances, maes such a shame that Rennie is injured - think that effectively rules him completely out

He is one of a good number mate... Lydiate, Ferris to name a couple more will be lucky to get games before the squad is announced.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/rbs-6-nations-lions-watch-round-1/

THE FIRST weekend of the 2013 RBS 6 Nations was, for lack of a better phrase, a jaw dropper.

We segued from the half-for-half excitement at the Millennium Stadium to the dynamic punch of the Calcutta Cup, before landing in Rome to witness a game that sent shockwaves around world rugby. However, there was also a much-discussed context to the bouts on Saturday. Everyone was opining about who should go on the Lions tour down under, so RW have laid it on the line, until Round 2, obviously. Let us know what you think…

Brian O’Driscoll

With one shimmy around Jonathan Davies and a keen sleight of hand to disarm the onrushing Alex Cuthbert, ‘Lion’ O’Driscoll showed us for the umpteenth time just how gifted he can be.

Showboat: Simon Zebo impressed on the hoof

The centre, winning his 127th cap, looks to have played at the Millennium for the last time, but there was no time for eulogies as he silenced the critics who claimed he was only now a defensive force, bereft of a cutting edge.

Unburdened by captaincy and free to unlock his full repertoire, he linked, ran and stopped Welshmen in their tracks in a ferocious rearguard action. O’Driscoll was a class above and is now the man almost everyone wants to captain the Lions.

2013 Lion: On the plane, first-class

Simon Zebo

Prolific early-season form meant most fans wanted the zip of Zebo in the Ireland squad. A hat-trick in the Heineken Cup then meant almost everyone wanted Zebo in the Ireland starting XV. With one audacious bit of footwork and a finishers try on Saturday everyone was calling for the winger to be handed a red jersey, too.

He has the tricks and the pace, but he has also shown he has a brain that can work in fast forward. He’s put his arm up for selection.

2013 Lion: Departure lounge

Stuart Hogg

In the Calcutta Cup, Hogg impressed the masses with his dazzling running. Although he does not have the aerial prowess of a Rob Kearney or a Leigh Halfpenny, he has a siege gun of a boot and an eye for a gap that the scrape-plagued Lewis Hamilton would be envious of.

Although he has not yet proved to be better than his Irish and Welsh counterparts, he certainly has thrilled and surprised. If you do not believe that, take the time to re-watch the try that he created and the try he finished off against England.

2013 Lion: Awaiting taxi to airport

Soaring: Launchbury has caught the eye

Leigh Halfpenny

Despite Hogg’s form, the Welsh full-back is still worthy of plaudits thanks to his place kicking and his ability to finish a try, as seen on Saturday.

Others around him may be losing their heads, but the most rounded of the British Isles’ men full-backs goes about his business unfazed. If he keeps his consistency for the whole tournament he will be a nailed-on Lion.

2013 Lion: On the plane

Owen Farrell

Though just 21, the Saracens’ stand-off is no longer the young pretender and no one would have the temerity to suggest as much whilst he is hitting like a falling mountain and kicks with such accuracy, anyway.

Farrell would never say that he is in a showdown with Jonny Sexton, even if the pair face off this Sunday, but there have been no other Lions challengers so far. As England continue to swell with confidence it may get harder and harder to dislodge the young 10.

2013 Lion: On the plane

Joe Launchbury

It was chopped off on Saturday, but Launchbury wriggled over for a score against Scotland. It was an act that could almost have been expected from the second-row, so fine was his performance on the day.

He has taken to international rugby like a moth to a blowtorch and he can still improve. Dynamic, highly-skilled and a team player, he is the kind of young athlete Warren Gatland will need on the hard grounds Down Under.

2013 Lion: On the plane

By Brendan Gallagher
11 Feb 2013


If last week largely belonged to Brian O'Driscoll and Ireland in terms of pressing their Lions cases, this weekend undoubtedly saw England's Chris Robshaw come to the fore.

A couple of Celtic dashers also put their hands up during an intriguing rather than spectacular weekend.

I would also highlight the superb contribution of Ryan Jones to Wales' victory in Paris. That is a name I haven't seen on anybody's Lions shortlist recently but after his performance at the Stade de France he's certainly going on mine.


When the Lions badly lost the first Test in Brisbane in 1989, Ian McGeechan had no hesitation in making wholesale changes seven days later – and to great effect.

You have to react instantly to obvious shifts in form and mood because Lions tour are so compressed. A day on a Lions tour is the equivalent to a week in the domestic season; a week approximates to a month back home.

A sloppy 30 minutes in training one day can see you lose your Test place because the competition is so fierce. Or at least that is how it should be on the best Tours.

So Chris Robshaw and the back row combinations first. I have never doubted for a second that the England skipper will be on the plane to Australia, my concern has been is he absolutely guaranteed his place in the Test team at open side flanker?

If not it is difficult to see how he can be named captain and that is one of the reasons behind my championing of Brian O'Driscoll to be the Lions captain.

I'm sticking with that call but chapeau to Robshaw who continues to do himself proud. He was good against Scotland and outstanding against Ireland in the sort of game he relishes- where strength over and on the ball is much more valuable than speed around the park.

To my eyes Robshaw – and I was a fan four or five years ago when he was just another member of the Quins pack – has become a much more rounded and mature player since becoming the England captain and I can't think of any game in any conditions in which he hasn't contributed significantly.

So here's the thing. Is the perceived wisdom that the Lions need an out and out seven to combat David Pocock and Michael Hooper completely wrong? Wales have tried that approach and failed – albeit narrowly – and lost six on the trot against the Aussies so that would suggest that notion might be flawed.

On the other hand Hooper's man of the match performance against England last November was undoubtedly the key to their win at Twickenham. Which approach is the winning way.

I'm beginning to think that actually we ignore Pocock and Hooper and simply select the open side flanker who will bring most to the Lions table and cause Australia, and whoever they pick at open side flanker, the most problems.

It's not about them its about us! When teams opposed Jonah Lomu in his pomp the best way to combat him was to actually turn the fire on him and cause the big man the maximum discomfort through attacking.

Using that criteria Sean O'Brien and Robshaw lead by a distance. Although I was pretty disappointed with Ireland's effort yesterday O'Brien was the pick of their forwards off the back of a stellar performance against Wales.

That duo are absolutely neck and neck and therein lies the problem with Robshaw and the captaincy. If you put a gun to my head today I would pick Robshaw but after the next round it might well be O'Brien again.

Justin Tipuric wasn't found wanting against France but he didn't light the place up and Sam Warburton will be chomping at the bit if he returns against Italy. Time is running out for the Wales captain – and the man inked in as Lions captain this time last year – but he is a quality player and I can see him producing something very special for Wales against England – and Robshaw – next month.

So that's the open side but suddenly blindside is becoming complicated as well. Two mighty beasts – Dan Lydiate and Stephen Ferris – are currently sidelined through injury but will come into the equation, while my current form choice Tom Wood continues to impress although he was playing out of position at No 8 yesterday.

But then Ryan Jones, who for some reason continually gets underestimated, steps in at the last minute both as captain and blindside flanker and leads Wales to a much needed win in Paris.

With all due respect to the excellent Leigh Halfpenny who was the official man of the match, that honour belonged to Jones. Wales can't drop the Osprey now and if Wales head off on a winning run – which they are well capable of – Jones will come more and more to the fore as a Lions candidate

And No 8. Using my harsh "a week is an eternity in Lions selection" approach Jamie Heaslip slipped out of the team this week with a poor performance against England. Toby Faletau was good against France as was Johnny Beattie against the Italians and Wood a more than useful stand-in for Ben Morgan in Dublin although I will continue to view the Northampton man as a blindside flanker. Somehow I fancy more time will be spent assembling the Lions back row players than the rest of the Lions squad put together.

Elsewhere who were the others to catch the eye this week? We just can't ignore Scotland's Stuart Hogg at fullback anymore, the man is on fire and scoring memorable tries for fun. Halfpenny is still going great guns but it is time to recognise Hogg's talents, at least for this week.

George North and Mike Phillips both looked sharper for Wales and if they repeat that in Rome they could be back as starters and the entire England front row put their hands up in Dublin with Joe Marler enjoying a particularly strong game.

Owen Farrell did well at fly-half for England although Jonny Sexton's injury meant there was no direct head to head between those contenders, Tom Visser ran strongly for Scotland and Greig Laidlaw reminded all-comers of his speed of mind although again Ben Youngs was the pick of the scrum-halves for me.

Simon Zebo's injury is a worry but if he returns to the form he departed in he still gets my vote. If not North could be the man, he looks hungry again. Wing is the least of the Lions problems, there are a number of talented players queuing up. At lock Donnacha Ryan had his least effective game in a while and is coming under pressure from Geoff Parling, Richie Gray and Ian Evans. None of the other contenders, however, were so impressive and dominant as to demand selection so Ryan survives. just

My Lions Test XV

Stuart Hogg (Scotland)

Chris Ashton (England)

Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland, capt)

Manu Tuilagi (England)

Simon Zebo (Ireland) George North (Wales) if Zebo not fit.

Jonny Sexton (Ireland)

Ben Youngs (England)

Joe Marler (England)

Rory Best (Ireland)

Dan Cole (England)

Donnacha Ryan (Ireland)

Joe Launchbury (England)

Tom Wood (England)

Chris Robshaw (England)

Toby Faletau (Wales)

Ashton apart (I think Gilroy or either of the Scots are in better form), I quite like the look of that XV, though if Corbisiero is back to fitness he would overtake Marler.

http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/176826.html

What a joy it is to see so many Scots with the potential to help the Lions win a test series. It makes the heart sing...

15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)

A bolter from the blue, the Scotland fullback is racing into Lions contention on the back of two terrific performances, which have included two tries - so far.

14. Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)

Such is the competition at fullback at present, Halfpenny is shunted on the wing here but that is no slight on what was a nerveless kicking display and wonderful all-round effort in the cauldron of the Stade De France.

13. Brad Barritt (England)

The England centre put in a huge defensive effort against Ireland - just like normal then - as he helped subdue the wonderful Brian O'Driscoll.

12. Matt Scott (Scotland)

A tough call on the back of impressive display from Jamie Roberts, but Scott edges it with a massive defensive effort for Scotland - making 14 tackles against the Italians - and some nice touches in attack, capping it off with his first try for his country.

11. George North (Wales)

North has suffered as much as any during Wales' recent poor run. And like the Welsh he was still struggling to find his timing and direction in attack for much of Saturday's clash but he dogged it out and ultimately proved his class with a superb finish for a game-breaking try.

10. Owen Farrell (England)

Farrell kicked four of his six attempts at goal off a muddy surface at the Aviva Stadium and was a calm, steady and highly capable influence throughout for England. It was only a pity Jonathan Sexton withdrew injured prematurely so the anticipated match-up failed to spark.

9. Greig Laidlaw (Scotland)

The Scotland scrum-half delivered a faultless kicking display - landing four conversions and two penalties from six kicks at goal - and took on much of the play-making duties as he claimed the man-of-the-match award against Italy. Ben Youngs also had a magnificent game in Dublin.



1. Ryan Grant (Scotland)

The 27-year-old is fast becoming a genuine Lions contender and he drew specific praise from Scott Johnson after overcoming an early injury to guts it out against the Italian front-row.

2. Rory Best (Ireland)

While opposite number Tom Youngs struggled in the rain in Ireland, Best was a key element of the Irish lineout which largely eclipsed their rivals' set-piece. He was a physical presence throughout and his industry carried him to all corners.

3. Euan Murray (Scotland)

The Scotland tight-head was at the heart of a massive effort from the Scottish scrum, which held their own against a renowned Italian front-row, and he still had the energy to top the tackle stats alongside captain Kelly Brown.

4. Andrew Coombes (Wales)

On only his second appearance for Wales, Coombes made 13 tackles and came up with three turnovers during a tireless effort against the French.

5. Richie Gray (Scotland)

The Scotland lock had another good game for Scotland as he shone in defence and was another potent lineout option. England's Geoff Parling also deserves a mention after a crucial steal at the death in Ireland and 10 tackles in that game.

6. Rob Harley (Scotland)

On his first start for his country the 22-year-old was superb. He matched his back-row colleagues for work-rate, made a decisive turnover on Sergio Parisse metres from the Scottish line and emerged as a great 6ft 6in option in the line-out.

7. Chris Robshaw (England)

The England captain was named Man of the Match in Ireland after a lung-bursting performance that included 14 tackles and typified England's gutsy display in the rain in Dublin.

8. Ryan Jones (Wales)

A massive effort from the flanker as he returned to the Welsh team as skipper in place of the injured Sam Warburton. Jones made some big hits and played a crucial role in leading Wales to their first win at the Stade de France since 2005.

Matt Scott was very impressive Radge, and a very decent showing of Scots in that Lions squad. Very well deserved

Harley looks to be a bit of a gem

"Mike Phillips...looked sharper for Wales and if he repeats that in Rome he could be back as starter".

Brilliant, Gallagher. Let's give Genia another three chances to make Philips look like an asthmatic, one-armed chimp with a limp. Because the three times in a row he did it last year have obviously slipped your mind.

George Carlin wrote:"Mike Phillips...looked sharper for Wales and if he repeats that in Rome he could be back as starter".

Brilliant, Gallagher. Let's give Genia another three chances to make Philips look like an asthmatic, one-armed chimp with a limp. Because the three times in a row he did it last year have obviously slipped your mind.

Phillips should be nowhere near the 9 shirt for the Lions. He could only play what was in front of him, so he would have been delighted Parra was nowhere in sight for the first 60 minutes.

Youngs, Laidlaw and Murray all offer so much more than Phillips.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8492764,00.html

15 Stuart Hogg (Scotland) - Despite strong competition from Leigh Halfpenny and Alex Goode, Hogg takes this shirt for the second week in a row after another excellent performance. His interception pass was clearly telegraphed, but his execution and finish showcased his talent.


14 Sean Maitland (Scotland) - No tries for Scotland's newest star but his influence was invaluable. A cute offload led to Matt Scott's try at the beginning of the second-half and he threatened all over the park. He is a big part of an exciting trio Scotland now have in their back three.


13 Mathieu Bastareaud (France) - Philippe Saint-André will struggle to find many positives from Saturday's shambles in Paris, but Bastareaud is one of them. Five defenders beaten, twelve tackles and a constant nuisance to bring down - the Toulon centre is back.


12 Jamie Roberts (Wales) - The Welsh battering ram marked his 50th cap with an assured performance, causing damage going forward but also producing a couple of key turnovers.


11 George North (Wales) - Close competition came for this spot from Mike Brown, but North's match-winner ended months of pain for Wales. Not only did he manage to find success in the same corner that eluded Mark Cueto back in the 2007 Rugby World Cup Final, but his Dad's pitch invasion to join the celebrations was special.


10 Owen Farrell (England) - His battle with Jonathan Sexton was comically (at this stage) billed as being for the Lions starting jersey. Unfortunately Sexton left the field on 31 minutes but Farrell was already on top in his personal duel. The Saracen kicked twelve points, missing two penalties during the game, but his all-round game management again resurfaces just how calm and collected he is for someone of only 21 years of age.


9 Ben Youngs (England) - Back-to-back inclusions in our team for Youngs and deservedly so. The Leicester scrum-half was outstanding over the weekend, with his positional sense and kicking game being top notch. It is not often Danny Care rides the pine for a whole game, which was a reflection of just how well Youngs performed at the Aviva Stadium.


8 Toby Faletau (Wales) - A stellar performance from the young number eight against France offered a reminder of what he has to offer when on form. Nine carries and twelve tackles illustrated the hard work ethic of the Welsh back-row on a memorable afternoon.


7 Chris Robshaw (England) - Suddenly the Harlequins captain is the bookies favourite to lead the Lions in Australia. While Irish number eight endured a nightmare showing at the Aviva Stadium, Robshaw was a colossus in white as he carried well and made the most tackles in the match. We feel Sean O'Brien deserves a mention here as he gave everything to the Irish cause, despite struggling during the contest with a painful looking injury.


6 Ryan Jones (Wales) - Sam Warburton might be fit to face Italy in a two weeks time, but he may not win his place back. Jones took the captain's armband against France and was an inspiration - eight carries, two turnovers and thirteen tackles backing up his performance.


5 Geoff Parling (England) - Stuart Lancaster possesses such a well-balanced trio of locks at the moment and at the head of that pile is Parling. Unlucky not to make our selection last week, he was again outstanding for England in both the tight and loose. Surely a 2013 Lion.


4 Andrew Coombs (Wales) - Two games into his Test career, Coombs looks like a veteran. Wales' top tackler with fourteen, he also made an effective turnover at the breakdown and didn't shy away from carrying the ball either. So far, Coombs is the find of the Six Nations.


3 Euan Murray (Scotland) - Performances such as Murray's on Saturday reminded us why he was a Lion. Thirteen tackles marked a busy day for the prop as he rolled back the years.


2 Ross Ford (Scotland) - Admittedly his line-out work was patchy, but Ford was on form around the park on his return to Test rugby. A handful of carries and nine tackles underlined an assured performance from the former Scotland captain, who should keep his jersey.


1 Joe Marler (England) - While his opposite number had a feisty afternoon, Marler quietly went about his business at the Aviva Stadium. Clean shaven, a nine-tackle effort was complimented by decent scrummaging before he was replaced by Mako Vunipola.

I rate Parling, I really do, but I'm not sure I'd have picked him over Gray based on the weekend.

The England lineout isn't quite clicking, and that's his main function. He is of course more than a lineout caller, he's very busy in the loose and not afraid to carry the ball, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to describe him as a standout performer. Gray was very good on Saturday.

Planet Rugby seems to be very exciting about stats and tackle rates. There's more to rugby than that though.

Again this criticism of Phillips, is everyone blind? He has had 2 very good games now, with a few mistakes granted, but 2 good games behind a beaten scrum, and poor depleted pack!!!

Phillips has toured before, is experienced on every level, and is consistant. If we were travelling to SA I'd say he was first choice, if we were travelling to NZ he'd be in my as a weapon in our armory, but as we're going to OZ I would have him on the plane at present with more talented boys having to prove they deserve a place ahead of him.

Phillips doesn't take a backwards step, is in the face of the opposition, and his attitude will help the younger members of the squad (not to mention help a few less agressive forwards)

IMHO Phillips is travelling at present, and I'd take Laidlaw and Youngs to go with him.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Again this criticism of Phillips, is everyone blind? He has had 2 very good games now, with a few mistakes granted, but 2 good games behind a beaten scrum, and poor depleted pack!!!

Phillips has toured before, is experienced on every level, and is consistant. If we were travelling to SA I'd say he was first choice, if we were travelling to NZ he'd be in my as a weapon in our armory, but as we're going to OZ I would have him on the plane at present with more talented boys having to prove they deserve a place ahead of him.

Phillips doesn't take a backwards step, is in the face of the opposition, and his attitude will help the younger members of the squad (not to mention help a few less agressive forwards)

IMHO Phillips is travelling at present, and I'd take Laidlaw and Youngs to go with him.

I agree behind a Pack in reverse gear Phillips is a player of a reasonable standard. He tackles well and when he makes his big carries he can relieve the pressure. However I look at the pedestrian service he provided Biggar and the slowness of the delivery and think, you are not right for Wales.

When Williams came on I thought Wales looked much more dangerous.

I have problems with Farell being considered for the starting team too, although he's been excellent thus far he all but kills off Englands back line, anyone playing 12 outside him will be flattened, and if Roberts is being considered there it'll all but end a lions threat beyond the front 8!!!

Sexton is by far the better rugby player, and with 1/2p in the team Farells goal kicking won't be missed, not that I'm taking anything away from Farell, I'd offer him a seat defo!!

Parlings been good too but there are just so many better options than him currently, Launchbury is the guy impressing me and I'd take him as an outsider looking to prove himself for a test shirt challenge.

Ruggar

Couldn't disagree more mate, look at the actual speed and quality of Williams pass in comparison to Phillips, Williams is far inferior!!!

Phillips gets a bad rep for being slow, in reality he is spending his time organising an overly structured attack, or wrestling for the ball which isn't coming back quick enough.

Gatland will take Phillips guarentee'd because Phillips does exactly what Gatland wants.

Ive even heard a pile of poop regarding the pass to Biggar for the winning try, crediting Williams and saying Phillips wouldn't have managed it, but in reality the pass was very slow and poor quality, it was a 3 on 2 out wide but because Biggar has to take it off his boot laces and it was in the air so long he was forced to kick, instead of playing the pass.

4 on 3 sorry

If he tours it's because Gatland likes him. Murray, Youngs, Care, Laidlaw are all better players IMO.

They are not, they are more talented 9's, but better rugby players they are not!

I'm not saying Phillips is the complete package, he's nowhere near it, but he is certainly effective, and offers more than the others.

The 9's you mention are more conventional, but why take all 4 when Youngs and Laidlaw are similar, Murray is a lesser version of Phillips and Care is a speed demon who is flawed massively sometimes.

Phillips will travel because he is another option, a weapon none of the other 9's can compete with, and is far more experienced and consistant than the others!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:They are not, they are more talented 9's, but better rugby players they are not!

I'm not saying Phillips is the complete package, he's nowhere near it, but he is certainly effective, and offers more than the others.

The 9's you mention are more conventional, but why take all 4 when Youngs and Laidlaw are similar, Murray is a lesser version of Phillips and Care is a speed demon who is flawed massively sometimes.

Phillips will travel because he is another option, a weapon none of the other 9's can compete with, and is far more experienced and consistant than the others!!!

We don't need "a rugby player" as you put it Blues, we need a Scrum Half.

Scrum half is one of the hardest positions to play IMO, it isn't just the skill, leadership and the co-ordination. But more importantly the Vision needed to play the game at 9 that we need.

The Lions would be better with Phillips nowhere near the 1st XV. Genia made him look like a disabled primate according to another esteemed poster.

We don't need a repeat of that.

Genia didn't make Phillips look like anything, he made Wales look stupid in 1 test with an absolute armchair ride!!!

We lost all 3 tests up front and in particularly at the breakdown, none of the 9's you list could've done anything other than live off scraps and work hard in defence, as Phillips did!

9 is difficult, and when your playing to Gatlands preferences it's even more difficult, and none of them know Gatlands tactics like Phillips, none of them know what travelling on a lions tour is like like Phillips does, and none of them can offer an option like Phillips does!!

It will take a few more decent performances from Phillips to tour, he doesn't have to light the world up, he just has to be himself!!!

If we travel with 3 of your 4 scrum halves what options in changes of style do we have? What experience do we have? And what leadership do we have? The answer is a little of everything, whereas Phillips offers lots of everything alone!!

I find it amazing when he gets criticised for things that no 9 could do anything about, speed of ball has little to do with the 9, trust me!!!

If you put Phillips behind, say, the English pack, he'd throw as 'quick a pass' as anyone. It's a ride as smooth as a cashmere codpiece.

Things are a lot more difficult when you're having to dig for the ball/defend yourself/avoid getting your head taken off/clean out defenders etc etc.

One thing going for Youngs is he's always outshone Genia. Maybe only two games but massive wins.

I dunno blues, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

I just look at the Welsh backline and think, if they got the snappy accurate Service that the other home nations Scrum halves can provide they would run riot.

I feel Wales could do better with an alternative to Phillips.

I'd take Youngs for his potential alone (still unrealised) Laidlaw would be my first choice over a talented 9, and the older experienced head, but then it depended on what my test team looked like.

If I went for a huge pack

Jones
Ford
Corbs/Healy
Evans
Gray
Robshaw
Heaslip
SOB

And look for forward dominance, ball carrying options and breakdown numbers, Youngs would be my option, if however a smaller less abrassive pack were chosen such as Warbs, Tipuric, Henry, Best, Youngs etc Phillips would be a much better option.

Rugger

Wales backline is big and dangerous, but in reality Phillips service to Biggar, Biggers lack of distribution nous (like Farell) and Roberts at 12 means we couldn't run riot.

The gameplan is based on keeping it tight for long periods, over using the blindside then a wide pod on the open before using our back 3. This was effective initially but is now read easily, and Roberts and wings are over used in the tight. Will Genia himself could do nothing about that!

At the moment I think that Youngs is putting himself ahead of the other scrum halves available. He will always be able to make breaks with his speed but he played well against Scotland in an attacking game, varying quick passes to get the backline moving with the darts across the line he makes to open up space for other players (this works brilliantly when the other players on the same page as him but looks awful when they aren't and he gets caught). Then yesterday, like with the HEC game against Toulouse, conditions were awful and his control behind the scrum and the way he and his fly half controlled the game with their kicking showed how he has matured as a player.

I also agree and I have said it a couple of times before but I believe his success against Australia (and the same goes for any other player in the same position) in previous matches should definitely be taken into account when picking the squad.

Obviously, once they get over there they start level which is how it should be but as of right now I would pick Youngs to start the first test.

Perhaps I'm being too hard on Philips. He does offer a different approach and he can be effective when a pack is going forwards.

The thing is, though. There's no need to deal in generalisations any more.

We know who we're playing - it's not some hypothetical team with weaknesses that may suit us and Philips. It's Australia. We know whom Philips' opposite number will be. It's not a hypothetical player who's an unknown quantity. It's Genia. Regardless of how puffed up we are now about the great players that we have, anyone who has seen any Lions tests will know they are ferocious as hell and no pack really dominates for any period of time.

It's no use saying that Philips is unfairly derided for being on the pack foot with Wales. The Wallabies aren't going to give us less space and as they proved in the 1 December match with Wales, we are going to have to lose this increasingly groundless preconception that the Wallaby scrum is weak.

I watched the Wallabies-Wales tests last June very carefully and in the case of the second test in Melbourne, twice through. Genia made Philips look slow witted, slow footed and completely incapable of delivering what his backline needed. He did it for 80 minutes, consistently and he did it three times in succession in less than three weeks. Philips wasn't playing badly, either - neither was the Welsh team - it's just that Genia was so much better and his game drives the entire Wallaby team.

How can we possibly think that's not significant. One test shirt at 9 only. And it has to belong to a speed merchant like Youngs or Care.

I'll stop banging on about this now.

I will add to that in that Youngs has gone down to Australia and not only won with England but dominated Genia which I think is also significant, it is something that no other scrum half we have available has done.

George I see your point, Genia is superb, but if you watched the games closely you will know that Wales were dominated at the breakdown, pure and simple!! In both attack and defence our breakdown work was poor, and Australia not only managed to slow ball down but effectively got men on the wrong side of every ruck.

Surely Phillips can only do as much as the forwards allow him too!

Good job that Rowntree is the forwards coach, then... but he will need a pack that can take on his ideas and execute them.

England's failure to cope with the Wallabies in the Autumn opened the door for him to make the changes that led to the way they played against NZ. Suggests to me that the core of the English pack will travel, along with the Celtic players who are best suited to the high intensity approach he's instilled.

Poor

I would actually agree with you there, an English forwards gameplan would suit best, with a number of Englishmen and players who would suit that ie Ian Evans, Hibbard, Best, Healy etc

However will Rowntree be given freedom to taylor the gameplan to how he would like?

I doubt it, as Gatland will want every little eventuality to how he likes the game played.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Poor

I would actually agree with you there, an English forwards gameplan would suit best, with a number of Englishmen and players who would suit that ie Ian Evans, Hibbard, Best, Healy etc

However will Rowntree be given freedom to taylor the gameplan to how he would like?

I doubt it, as Gatland will want every little eventuality to how he likes the game played.

Gatland's said that he chose Farrell Snr over Edwards as his defence coach because he wanted to be challenged. He will expect the same from Rowntree - you don't pick a guy who's renowned as a revolutionary forwards coach only to ignore what he has to say. I doubt that Rowntree will have a completely free hand, but if the tour is going to be a success I would expect Gatland to set the overall tactical framework (with input from his coaches) then hand over to them to work out how to execute and who will best fit the plan (with Gatland retaining the ultimate say).

Problem is Gatland really see's the forwards coach as the set peice, and he much prefers to have his tactics nailed on.

Picking Farell has far more to do with Edwards defencive options struggling of late IMHO, but thats more depth into decisions than we prob want to go.

I wouldne call Rowntree revolutionary either, very good definately, best in the north yes, but revolutionary? We'll see.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/feb/11/england-warren-gatland-british-lions-selection

Hi Trev,

I see they managed to write an article all about who Gatland should pick without interviewing Gatland. Not even a quote from the man himself, and he said some nice things about Englands players recently too.

"On current form there could yet be an entire team of red rose players wearing the red of Britain and Ireland rather than touring Argentina with their national side."

The quote that made me chuckle in the current context though was this from half way down about the self appointed soon to be GS champs...! Nike must be kicking themselves they let the shirt deal go...?

"The key is to assemble a squad that stays cool under screeching pressure, is not inclined to believe its own hype"

Morning MM,

The second line is more apt.

'The quick progress being made by Stuart Lancaster's men has put some unexpected names in the reckoning for next summer'

Precisely why I don't personally indulge in picking a Lions team until later.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Poor

I would actually agree with you there, an English forwards gameplan would suit best, with a number of Englishmen and players who would suit that ie Ian Evans, Hibbard, Best, Healy etc

However will Rowntree be given freedom to taylor the gameplan to how he would like?

I doubt it, as Gatland will want every little eventuality to how he likes the game played.

Evans has really impressed me since his return, and considering how quickly he came back from injury, his match fitness is excellent. Currently, I'd certainly have him as one of my starting locks.

Basing it on 1st 2 rounds

1.Healy- Pretty much nailed on
2.Best- Same as Healy
3.Cole- See above
4.Launchbury- So much competition for 2nd row could have picked anyone
5.Ryan- See above
6.Jones- Brilliant in Paris but lets be honest if Ferris or Lydiate get anywhere near their form of last year they will be ahead of him
7.Robshaw
8.O'Brien- Him and Robshaw the 2 outstanding backrows of weeks 1 and 2
9.Youngs
10.Farrell- Won the battle of the 10s on Sunday
11.Maitland- The guy has been superb but if Bowe regains his form he will probs start
12.BOD- Classy player
13.Tuilagi-See above, I know he hardly played but its the centre partnership everyone wants
14.Halfpenny-No outstanding wingers but Halfpenny is considered by some a better winger than fullback, where he has been fantastic
15.Hogg- Kearney is seriously slipping down

ATM: Front row is nearly decided, 2nd row remains most competitive position, back row the same with SOB and Robshaw the clear front runners, 10 is neck and neck, nobody has really stood out on the wing bar Maitland, fullback hotly contested between hogg Kearn and Halfpenny with Kearney needing a big game

How is Ryan as a lineout jumper? Can he command a lineout?

He is impressive in the tight... puts in a lot of tackles and has the grunt needed.

Haven't seen too much of him but when I have I can't recall him being a player in the mould of Matfield, O'Connell, Croft, Parling.... i.e. guys who dominate the middle. Its the same with Launchbury.

If so then perhaps the combination of him and Launchbury would be a little unbalanced.

No offence, but you can't say you're basing your XV on the first two rounds and then include Manu Tuilagi.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:No offence, but you can't say you're basing your XV on the first two rounds and then include Manu Tuilagi.

I saw someone else 'discount him' because he messed up 2 chances to score... If given the chance I am sure he will prove himself but you are absolutely right hes done nothing in the 6N so far.

I am also stunned with the repeated mantra that you cant pick X or Y as captain because their selection isnt nailed on. Which sounds to me as if you can only pick someone as captain if everyone else who plays in that position is crap.

We should start a lions selection cliche thread..

Part of me would love it if Gatland picked Brad Barrit at 13 if just to WTF both sides of that argument

Looking at some outside choices (which means Scottish ;-) ) which I would suggest you keep an eye on - they may move into contention

No 1 Grant is worthing looking out for. Very solid in the scrum and good in the loose - making a name for himself - even played 60 mins injured against Italy and was strong

2 - Ford - getting back to his best. Rampent in the loose, and a strong scrummer. Lineout working (So far)

4 - Gray - getting better again and focussed - strong in the loose and actaully working the rucks

8 Beattie - strong runner and making a strong case, even on the back foot.

12 - Scott - good hands, strong runner and good offload. Would not be out of place in the squad

11 - Maitland - 2 games and already showing his rugby brain - more to follow we hope

5 - Hines - tearing it up in France. Slightly different to some of the other locks, so could offer an alternative. Very good hands, does the hard work and a good enforcer


Not saying these are nailed on, but worth keeping an eye on

I'd sat Gray is all but nailed on, if for nothing but his lineout work and athletisism.

Ford is getting better, and would be in my squad.

Beattie is looking good, and were are short of well rounded quality 8's (Heaslip aside)

Maitland has to keep proving he can do what.

Scott has had one good game, he needs more time.

Hines is looking very strong.

Laidlaw would also be in my squad, and must certainly be in the mix.

How many locks do they take? 5

It think Lock is very competitive at the moment so guys like Gray really need to up their game and put themselves in the shop window.

Currently we have guys like Ryan, Gray, Hines, Jones, Parling, Lawes & Launchbury all potentially touring.

Lawes may miss out through lack of game time... one of the rest will probably not make it.

Unless I'm missing anyhow the list looks a little out of balance. Too many 4s and not enough lineout captains.

Again though do they take 5 specialist locks or take 4 along with someone like Ryan Jones who could cover in case of emergency.

if so the eventual test locks out of that group will have to go through a lot of game time... say 6 or 7 matches.

Thats going to be tough if we take only 4 specialist locks.