Vunipola to get Shock England Call up this Autumn?

Reports are going about that Mako Vunipola may come in to the England squad for the AI's in the place of injured Corbissiero.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/171508.html

He's a very good prospect and has looked quality for Saracens when he's come on, currently he has played 8 games this season for Saracens and looked comfortable in the scrum and in the loose in all of them. At 5'11 and 19 stone he's certainly big enough for Int level rugby.

Also the same report states that Tom Youngs can expect to fill in for injured Webber.

Interesting.

I think Youngs is a no brainer really.

But Vunipola...i thought it would have been Mullan..

But at least it potentially shows Lancs is prepared to reward good performances regardless of age.

Would prefer to see his brother called up, but I can see that might be unrealistic. Mako's looked good from what i've seen, i wouldn't have thought he'd be far off.

I find this rather strange that he would have brought a player in who isn't even in the Saxons. Matthew mullan can feel rather hard done by after all his development and being one of the few English qualified Loosies who starts week in and week out for his club whereas Mako didn't get much game time at all last season with alot of his appearances this year off the bench.

Theres no doubting he has talent being an absolute unit but as a prop of 20 years of age coming into his first proper AP year he is going to have his head shoved through his backside a few more times before he can really be a top level prop, much like marler did before he worked his arse off with rowntree!!!

I'm excited we are bringing guys like this through and who knows maybe he'll excel but i worry we are exposing him to the highest level of competition without much preparation, and the kiwis are going to love getting stuck into a front row with two ex kiwis in !! I just hope we put a louis deacon type lock in behind to give him that extra shunt should he get game time, TBH chances are it will be wilson on the becnh anyway.

He is technically in the Saxons, he was called up as a replacement for Davey Wilson.

http://www.rfu.com/news/2012/september/newsarticles/250912_lancaster_bmw

It's great to see so many good young props get their chance. We've got our loosheads sorted for years to come; Corbisiero, Marler, Vunipola and Matt Mullan.

Just need to add that depth to the tighthead side of the scrum. I believe Cole is genuinely world class, but it isn't good to be so reliant on one player. Wilson is a decent stop gap and a good club man, but if Cole gets injured he and Paul Doran-Jones don't fill me with confidence.

On TH, in a year or so we can expect Sinckler to break into the elite squad, but the cupboard is a little bare right now.

I could see Vunipola being considered as an option, but I have to say I am struggling to see the fuss about Youngs right now. One for the future, yes, but right now his technical skills aren't up to scratch at club level, let alone international.

I think Youngs is a very decent propsect, but not notably better than a number of other promissing hookers with still a fair bit to prove, I think any of them could end up being the best option.

What I would say regarding whoever steps up is that although as much as anyone I want a dynamic hooker that can charge around the pitch, that's not at the expense of a bankable lineout thrower, that's non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned, an extra carrier isn't worth losing a quarter of your lineouts and getting poor ball off a lot of the rest (not particularly accusing any of them of that by the way), it's too important a weapon and extra carrying can be found elsewhere.

Considering we're lightly to be under the cosh a lot from the SH teams and Youngs tackles like a beast so when he comes off the bench we can rely on him to charge round and make his presence felt. His lineout throwing is no worse than Chuter's last season and no one said anything about that.

Vunipola is an interesting call up. Could be a good impact sub.

Cumbrian wrote:It's great to see so many good young props get their chance. We've got our loosheads sorted for years to come; Corbisiero, Marler, Vunipola and Matt Mullan.

Just need to add that depth to the tighthead side of the scrum. I believe Cole is genuinely world class, but it isn't good to be so reliant on one player. Wilson is a decent stop gap and a good club man, but if Cole gets injured he and Paul Doran-Jones don't fill me with confidence.

Cumbrian marra...i think in a year or two Scott Wilson will be challenging for that TH spot. He learnt from Carl Hayman himself....

formerly known as Sam wrote:Considering we're lightly to be under the cosh a lot from the SH teams and Youngs tackles like a beast so when he comes off the bench we can rely on him to charge round and make his presence felt. His lineout throwing is no worse than Chuter's last season and no one said anything about that.

Vunipola is an interesting call up. Could be a good impact sub.

Actually his throwing this season is better than Chuter has been for a while now. Problem is commentators (and fans) can be lazy and unfairly re-inforce stereotypes. So Youngs throws one not straight and commentaors mention it as a weakness - Rory Best has an off day and it is a shock.

Best example though is Charlie Hodgson. I have argued with people, my brother especially, that his defence was not as bad as he has been castigated for. I even challenged him to watch just Hodgson in defence to see just how few head up tackles he actually missed and how good his cover defence was. Suddenly some media peeps (and board posters) are claiming that Hodgson's defence has improved due to Sarries. It hasn't he is still the same.

Like Twelvetrees being a defensive liability?

yappysnap wrote:Like Twelvetrees being a defensive liability?

Any potential England player with attacking prowess, or higher than average skill set, is labelled as a defensive liability.

yappysnap wrote:Like Twelvetrees being a defensive liability?

who claims that?

I have no idea, but if you go on to the England Inside Center thread you'll see it thrown out there as these things often are on forums.

Twelvetrees is a 606 v2 darling. I don't think he gets much criticism.

He's been quite inconsistent in the past though. Sometimes he can go missing in big games.

What's Mullan being doing this season?

Vunipola has the HC shop window. He's been playing well for arguably the form side in England.

[/quote] Problem is commentators (and fans) can be lazy and unfairly re-inforce stereotypes. [/quote]

Cant agree more players get type cast and can never seem to shirk the reputation despite how their game develops throughout thier career, for me this was opitmised with nick kenedy who was seen as a lineout expert with no grunt around the park, by the time he left irish he was awesome in the loose as well as the set piece but never shrugged off his rep. Lazy journalism indeed

I read that Mako could also play for Wales and Tonga, is this true Sarries fans? If so, the conspiracy theory part of me does wonder if theres an element of getting him tied to England now with no Saxons games until next year?

Having said that he has looked good when I've seen him play, and personally I welcome players getting called up for playing well for their clubs, rather than just by virtue of having played for England before. Will be interesting to see his impact off the bench in the AIs.

Bathman in London Mako played U20s for England. He plays for an English club. I am pretty sure his loyalty is to England.

I can understand the conspiracy theories but let's be honest who is there at loosehead in his way?

Bathman_in_London wrote:I read that Mako could also play for Wales and Tonga, is this true Sarries fans? If so, the conspiracy theory part of me does wonder if theres an element of getting him tied to England now with no Saxons games until next year?

Having said that he has looked good when I've seen him play, and personally I welcome players getting called up for playing well for their clubs, rather than just by virtue of having played for England before. Will be interesting to see his impact off the bench in the AIs.

He could play for Wales, he lived there for three years when he was a kid, but since he moved to England to live and go to school I believe he no longer qualifies for them.

He still does qualify for Tonga and New Zealand. I honestly don't think it is a case of picking him to deny others, because at the end of the day he's said he wants to represent England. He was raised and schooled here and (so I have been told) has a bit of a Bristolian accent. It all leads me to believe that he is committed to the cause and wouldn’t drop us at the first sign of a cap elsewhere.

Aside from all of this, he is a good player (in a position we are stretched in) who would have real value coming off the bench because he can hold his own in the scrum and is a demon around the park.

Yes, he qualified for Wales on residency only so he's no longer qualified for them. He was born in New Zealand (and lived there for a year) so he qualifies for them. His dad played for Tonga so I assume that he or a grand parent was born in Tonga.

Decent player, shows up well. Doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. Rowntree seems to be a very good coach so having him in the England squad would probably be a good thing for all involved.

Not sure about Mullen as I haven't seen him play much.

Mulling needs to move to a bigger club for HEC exposure if he wants to add to his solitary cap.

Vunipola was given a torrid time when he came on for Gill at the weekend, spent 30 minutes going backwards at a rate of knots. Not what I want to see in the England squad!
Then again, if Rowntree can help him out like he has Marler....

Nick Wood is no media darling but he is one hell of a scrummager. Gloucs always look good in the scrum when he's playing.

Nick Wood's issue is his penalty count, he's been one of the top offenders for the last few seasons. He can scrummage very well, but then gets picked up a fair bit as well.

So far this season he's conceded 6 penalties in 6 games. Compare that to Marler & Mullan who have only conceded 2 penalties each in the same number of games.

I dont consider this a shock really Mako has played for the u-20 and we have a key injury at Lh. personally I would rate Mako higher than Wood & Mullan & he has age on his side.
It wont be long before his brother Billy will be providing competition for Morgan at No. 8.

bathmad wrote:Vunipola was given a torrid time when he came on for Gill at the weekend, spent 30 minutes going backwards at a rate of knots. Not what I want to see in the England squad!
Then again, if Rowntree can help him out like he has Marler....

As I recall Bathmad Gill also had some issues when he was on and I don't think we can attribute that to just one player. He's been excellent in the loose with some lovely offloads and heavy-duty carrying.

I also don't see it as England getting him capped first, he's played England U18s and U20s and he has declared his desire to play senior rugby for England. I think it's good news he's getting some reward and recognition. From my point of view what Lancs is trying to do is create a definitive line from U18s to U20s to Saxons and Senior representation. It fits in well with the concept of really incetivising players from a young age and I think there's some blistering prospects still to come through from previous age-grade teams.

On that note we are a bit thin at TH but Wilson has been playing very well for Bath and young Shaun Knight at Glaws is a super prospect. Played alongside Marler and George in a formidable U20s front row. If he can claim the starting spot from Harden which he can at present, he'll be the next young TH into the Saxons. Henry Thomas needs to avoid injury, real shame he hasn't been able to get out in the HC.

What happened to that Sales prop that partnered Marler at U20 level, think it was Imiolek? He looked just as physical as Joe but seems to have vanished...

Henry Thomas partner Marler. Imiolek is a loosehead. He played quite a few games last season (out of necessity), but he was still a little weak in the scrum (he is 21/22 after all) so Sale have loaned him to Leeds.