Rabo PRO12 (Round 7): Leinster 59 v 22 Cardiff Blues @ 18:30 Saturday 27 October (RDS, Dublin)

First topic message reminder :

Leinster squad update
There are no major injury concerns arising from Saturday’s games in Wales, where the senior team recorded their second Pool victory in the Heineken Cup over the Scarlets, while the province’s ‘A’ team were narrowly edged by Pontypridd in Sardis Road.
Gordon D’Arcy successfully came through 80 minutes after his recent rib injury, while Richardt Strauss received stitches to a cut on his chin.

It is hoped that Rob Kearney (back) will be available this weekend while Quinn Roux (ankle) will also continue to be assessed by the medical team.

Rhys Ruddock successfully came through his first run out of the season in Pontypridd and he is set to be joined in the mix for selection this week by Dave Kearney for the visit of Cardiff.

Second row Tom Denton was a late withdrawal from the ‘A’ game with minor calf tightening but that will not affect his availability this week when the team is named at Friday lunchtime.

Ticket sales for Saturday’s game have passed the 15,000 mark

The match is due to be televised on RTE.
Things are getting positive on the injury front, some good depth getting back fit.

MrsP wrote:Why does it seem to be getting worse though Bluesman?

I can fully understand how the regions do not have the same history as the provinces and so folks don't always feel the same sense of identity towards them but surely one would expect that to improve, no?

Last season it seemed that Blues fans were clamouring for a return to CAP. That has happened but still the team play as if they really don't want to be there.

I know Ulster a few seasons back went through a similar phase when it looked like the players were very demotivated. A change of coach improved things emormously.

It is getting worse because the Blues are broke, still have mostly the same coaches or equally clueless ones and had to face the retirement off most of their class players over the last 2 years - an we can't afford anything but average NWQ players.

Rush, Tito, Martyn Williams, Shanklin, Gethin, Laulaula, J.Robinson, Blair, D.Jones, TRThomas, Molitika, R.Rees, G.Williams, Yapp

Rush - Pretorious
Tito - Downs/Reed
Williams - Warburton/Navidi
Shanklin - G.Evans
Gethin - Filise/Bourrust/Ma'afu
Laulaula - G.Evans
J. Robinson - Tovey
Blair - Halfpenny
D.Jones - Downs/Reed
TRThomas - Breeze
Molitika - Copeland
R.Rees - Lloyd Williams
G.Williams - Andy Kyricau
Yapp - Trevett

That is the difference

Wales606,

And yet a lot of those players will be at the very least competitive in the 6Nations side.

I really hope it gets sorted out. No one who loves rugby could enjoy that even if it means an easier ride for their own team.

MrsP wrote:Wales606,

And yet a lot of those players will be at the very least competitive in the 6Nations side.

I really hope it gets sorted out. No one who loves rugby could enjoy that even if it means an easier ride for their own team.

But we lack leadership from the Wales players,

we also no longer have experienced/good players at 1,2,3,8,9 and 13.

Stating the bleedin' obvious, it seems to me that the regions are in a serious crisis and the stresses are building.

The regions were cobbled together at a time when all Welsh rugby was in dire straits but have stuck to a plan which appears to working successfully to the benefit of the nation whilst the regions appear not to have caught the public imagination. This is measurable by pitiful attendances (especially if you discount all the various bogof offers etc.) to increase footfall.

So of course the regions leak money. So the wage caps get introduced and the players get tempted to leave. And this can lead to an iniquitous spiral of decline at club level.

The dream was the regions would catch on and be slowly absorbed but is that the case?

How the regions' fortunes can be reversed is anyone's guess. But the ancient falt-lines which remain from the old clubs seem to remain and look to be closing only measurable in geological terms.

I did say last year to watch out for Jordi Murphy.. anyone remember?

Very impressed by him. I wonder how his chances will be affected when his competition returns.

MrsP wrote:Wales606,

And yet a lot of those players will be at the very least competitive in the 6Nations side.

I really hope it gets sorted out. No one who loves rugby could enjoy that even if it means an easier ride for their own team.

Hear Hear. We are all in this PRO12 together. And it has been getting more competitive year-on-year. I hope its a turning point in the Blues season. I really do. Respect.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Jordi Murphy will want to leave a lasting impression in this game, this is a great chance for him. When O'Brien, Ryan, Auva'a and Ruddock all return to full fitness, he is going to have a hard time getting as much experience as he has been getting so far.

yes I spotted that. man of the match a big enough impression?

I muted that Glasgow would be a PRO12 force again this year. They are not letting me down. Scarlets are motoring along nicely too. As are O's. Ulster look unstoppable. Munster & Leinster are starting to shift gears. All good. All Blues need is a few wins and they are back in the hunt. Too many great players in that side. It will come.

And it would be great for the League, if it was not the Usual Suspects in the playoffs.

Besides, I'm fed up getting beat by O's in Grand Finals, at OUR place.

Jesus that was a shoite game. Nice tries and everything but I feicing hate watching games like that, well done Leinster but was hoping for a good game and it was just so one sided.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Jordi Murphy will want to leave a lasting impression in this game, this is a great chance for him. When O'Brien, Ryan, Auva'a and Ruddock all return to full fitness, he is going to have a hard time getting as much experience as he has been getting so far.

yes I spotted that. man of the match a big enough impression?

I think he's better than Rhys Ruddock already. Rhys could find himself along way down the list when the likes of SOB and ryan come back and also with conan, gilsenan, leavy and van der flier coming through from the acadamey.

I thought Ruddock had a good game when he came on. Right now you'd have to say Ryan is the lad losing out he didn't make that much of an impression at the start of the season I felt

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I thought Ruddock had a good game when he came on. Right now you'd have to say Ryan is the lad losing out he didn't make that much of an impression at the start of the season I felt

Ruddock needs to start playing well against tougher opposition though. Last season he looked very ordinary. Whereas ryan has played well in the HC against the likes of saracens. I think Ryan has so much potential but is constantly being held back by these injuries.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I thought Ruddock had a good game when he came on. Right now you'd have to say Ryan is the lad losing out he didn't make that much of an impression at the start of the season I felt

He did. And I am not a big fan, but am willing to be patient this season. He's young yet. I agree on Ryan. Had him down to replace Jenno. But time waits for no man at Leinster now. You miss a few weeks and your chance is gone for ages.

That's the way we always wanted it. 2/3 players fighting for every position.

Jordi Murphy was a very hungry lad last night. Took his chance with both hands. He was everywhere. Reminded me of Wally. But, lets see him do it consistently, before we lose the run of ourselves on him.

Yeah I agree with the pair of you: Jordi has been excellent and has played in some HCup games hasn't he??

Looks a tough nuget, my little bro used to play with him and said he is the strongest guy he has ever played with. My bro played with the likes of Conway, Ben Marshall and Ruddock.

Depth is only a good thing though

SOB-McL-Ruddock-Marshall
Jenno-Murphy-ryan
Heaslip-Avuav'a

Like this is outstanding stuff we have here. Would be great to have the same sort of depth in other positions.

I think Ryan really needs to get some continuity going, he has been very unlucky as of late but has everything he needs to be a 6 OR a 7.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I agree with the pair of you: Jordi has been excellent and has played in some HCup games hasn't he??

Looks a tough nuget, my little bro used to play with him and said he is the strongest guy he has ever played with. My bro played with the likes of Conway, Ben Marshall and Ruddock.

Depth is only a good thing though

SOB-McL-Ruddock-Marshall
Jenno-Murphy-ryan
Heaslip-Avuav'a

Like this is outstanding stuff we have here. Would be great to have the same sort of depth in other positions.

I think Ryan really needs to get some continuity going, he has been very unlucky as of late but has everything he needs to be a 6 OR a 7.

I completely forgot about marshall. We have so many good backrowers coming through.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Jordi Murphy will want to leave a lasting impression in this game, this is a great chance for him. When O'Brien, Ryan, Auva'a and Ruddock all return to full fitness, he is going to have a hard time getting as much experience as he has been getting so far.

yes I spotted that. man of the match a big enough impression?

He will need to perform on a more consistent basis, so maybe he will get more chances over the next few games. If he can continue to perform to the highest standard, I believe Schmidt will keep him in and around the match day squad.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah I agree with the pair of you: Jordi has been excellent and has played in some HCup games hasn't he??

Looks a tough nuget, my little bro used to play with him and said he is the strongest guy he has ever played with. My bro played with the likes of Conway, Ben Marshall and Ruddock.

Depth is only a good thing though

SOB-McL-Ruddock-Marshall
Jenno-Murphy-ryan
Heaslip-Avuav'a

Like this is outstanding stuff we have here. Would be great to have the same sort of depth in other positions.

I think Ryan really needs to get some continuity going, he has been very unlucky as of late but has everything he needs to be a 6 OR a 7.

I completely forgot about marshall. We have so many good backrowers coming through.

Does Marshall have a brother who's looking promising?

Is there really a player in the academy called van der flier?

Feckless Rogue wrote:Is there really a player in the academy called van der flier?

Yes. Josh van der flier.

What a brilliant name.

By the way the rabo website says O'Driscoll won't be out of the AI's. Good news.

Fill yer boots Leinster fans... Maybe skip to the 2nd half Blues fans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGn_1nwUfRg

It was indeed a ruthless first half. Great to see Dave Kearney's return... and of course the auld codger O'Driscoll having a few reccurences of his worrying senile delusion issue - ie. thinking he's the proverbial spring chicken again!

Needs to be sustained now though, now that it's no longer a secret that they can again play this way. Sustaining it so that it becomes their familiar rhythm again - which will take some doing with the AIs around the corner, but its a certainty that Joe will be trying to hold onto that Saturday mood.

Gibson wrote:Fill yer boots Leinster fans... Maybe skip to the 2nd half Blues fans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGn_1nwUfRg

Swashbuckling stuff there lads!

Gees no wonder BOD sprained his ankle, he made more clean breaks in the first half than he has in the last 3 seasons!

Sadly rodders my nan could make clean breaks against that defence!!!

Has your Nan got an Irish passport by any chance?....

If odriscoll was the best player on the pitch then the worst has to be pretorius of cardiff. The guy has no guts whatsoever.

my nan is from Cork rodders, but sadly I think he 13 days are are behind her, maybe do a job at 9 but she hasn't got the pace out wide, similarly to BOD

In Pretorious's defence he's always been a bit of a tart, going from talented youngster to 2 years injured to club captain doesn't help at all.

He needs a season to re introduce him to the game but he is our only 8 option at present!!

Any of the Welsh posters watching Scrum V now on BBC 2 Wales? Jiffy being very critical of the Blues players rather than the coaching. He's got a point.

Cari wrote:Any of the Welsh posters watching Scrum V now on BBC 2 Wales? Jiffy being very critical of the Blues players rather than the coaching. He's got a point.

His point is family comes first!

Cari wrote:Any of the Welsh posters watching Scrum V now on BBC 2 Wales? Jiffy being very critical of the Blues players rather than the coaching. He's got a point.

If any of the Lions selectors saw the unprofessional performance of Warburton then I think he 'played' himself out of the Lions captaincy. I say 'played' as he didn't really bother himself all night. I thought his, like many performances were shameful. Contrast with the two Blues wings, always coming off their wings, looking for work, putting in some effort.

HaH

Away to leinster, always beaten at the RDS, 14 points down in 12 minutes, Polish training camp in a few days, not being able to complete a game in over a season for injuries, plays for a 'region' he doesn't know or care about, scrum cap highlights his mindset at present!!!

Can you really blame the guy? I feel sorry for most welsh regional players!!!

Basically the view of the Scrum V panel was that the Blues were lazy, and there was no leadership to sort it out.

thebluesmancometh wrote:HaH

Away to leinster, always beaten at the RDS, 14 points down in 12 minutes, Polish training camp in a few days, not being able to complete a game in over a season for injuries, plays for a 'region' he doesn't know or care about, scrum cap highlights his mindset at present!!!

Can you really blame the guy? I feel sorry for most welsh regional players!!!

Yes I do blame him. Totally and utterly unprofessional. None of those factors stop him from at least running from ruck to ruck instead of strolling. Some players tried, like Cuthbert and James. Warburton didn't bother. Thats not a player I'd have any interest in following onto the pitch. You would not see O'Connell, O'Driscoll, Ford, Robshaw or even Dylan Hartley, who I loathe, doing that. Totally unprofessional and disgraceful. The same could be said for alot of other players on the pitch that night.

Ive seen all of those players heads drop at stages of their careers, and most play for a club they love and wasn't forced upon them!!!

You seem to be ignoring the fact that he hadn't played rugb y from the world cup to Aus tour, rushed back and never recovered. This season every time he's made a tackle he's been injured, he is very frustrated and performing at about 40%. He looks like he needs a break from the game.

You bandy these terms around like you were the one performing against them, they have been beaten heavily, but there are a thousand reasons for why none of them arte performing well (back 3 aside)

Have you never played a game and been criticised for not being interested when you knew you just didn't have it in the tank for whatever reason?

You speak like someone who's never been on the pitch mate!!

I agree Hook. Very unprofessional, time to take that captains armband from him me thinks and hand it over to Ryan Jones. Warbs may even lose his Welsh 7 jersey. Of course I don't blame him with all the injuries he suffers and the predicament his time finds themselves in. Coming off the bench a couple times may be what he needs. That Wales pack is going to have a very Ospreys look about it and Howley would be crazy to choose otherwise.

Morg

You are right, I think Tipuric should be starting in the Ai's, but to call a guy who doesn't drink, barely eats fats and trains twice on xmas day un profesional because he's struggling is a joke.

You need to think of what you do for the welsh cause in comparison to what this guy has sacrificed in his personall life.

Any criticism of his performances are ok, but his nature as a professional? really?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ive seen all of those players heads drop at stages of their careers, and most play for a club they love and wasn't forced upon them!!!

You seem to be ignoring the fact that he hadn't played rugb y from the world cup to Aus tour, rushed back and never recovered. This season every time he's made a tackle he's been injured, he is very frustrated and performing at about 40%. He looks like he needs a break from the game.

You bandy these terms around like you were the one performing against them, they have been beaten heavily, but there are a thousand reasons for why none of them arte performing well (back 3 aside)

Have you never played a game and been criticised for not being interested when you knew you just didn't have it in the tank for whatever reason?

You speak like someone who's never been on the pitch mate!!

Listen, I understand your defence of him. He's an outstanding player and I am jealous his name isn't O'Warburton from Belfast- I wouldn't want him playing for any other province but Ulster.

I have played at underage representative level and at AIL level here. I have gone out and played crap. I've got out after being sick for a few days and not having much in the tank. I have never gone out and not tried. Warburton didn't put any effort into that performance. Playing badly in one thing. Not putting in any effort is totally unprofessional. If you aren't fit you don't play.

I can tell you from experience of watching an Ulster team where the players weren't getting on, where one player was a cancer in the locker room. We were a shambles, embarrassing at times. I can't recall ever thinking the team didn't try during a match. I can recall them playing badly. There's a difference. Warburton and many other players did not try. I know I have singled out Warburton here due the Lions captaincy situation, but he was not the other player in that boat against Leinster. Maybe some of the reasons are understandable to you, but if that was Ulster I wouldn't want some of those players in a white shirt again no matter their reputation.

So youve never been Irelands captain, had the pressure of the famous 7 jersey, been professionally employed and had the everyday pressures of club, country and personal demands put upon you at 23?

But again and I stress Ulster is an established province, the local boys aspire to play for them, the locals are passionate about the club, the players grew up watching them and being involved with it!!!

The Bllues as a club is fabricated by the bossiest businessmen, it means nothing to players, coaches or fans.

When Ulster were in the duldrums did they have to rock up and play in front of 2 men and his dog?

I'm not trying to justify the players performances, I'll happily call them not good enough, poor quality, and unprofessional when they deserve to be called it, but with everything thats happened in the last season from Warbs POV I'm amazed he's back on the pitch at all.

He looks like he needs the AI's off, get a few club games under his belt, and return for the 6N fully fit and firing.

PS he isn't the Blues captain, he is following Pretorious onto the pitch not the other way around!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Morg

You are right, I think Tipuric should be starting in the Ai's, but to call a guy who doesn't drink, barely eats fats and trains twice on xmas day un profesional because he's struggling is a joke.

You need to think of what you do for the welsh cause in comparison to what this guy has sacrificed in his personall life.

Any criticism of his performances are ok, but his nature as a professional? really?

The performance, or attitude towards that game was unprofessional. He wasn't the only one. You can't blame it on getting stuffed. If you are a professional rugby player on the receiving end the most you can play for is pride by trying to get some points back on the board.

Sam himself as a professional, is the most dedicated athlete I've ever seen and he is a great example for other Welsh rugby players.

Morg

Your right of course, but have you ever seen Warbs in a scrum cap before??

He looks like he is so desperate to get back for Wales he's trying to complete at least one game for the Blues while nowhere near fit enough or ready.

for the record IMO he shouldn't be in the Wales squad, Tipuric and Navidi have been much more effective this season.

thebluesmancometh wrote:So youve never been Irelands captain, had the pressure of the famous 7 jersey, been professionally employed and had the everyday pressures of club, country and personal demands put upon you at 23?

So the pressure is too much for him then? Then he isn't captaincy material because he is mentally brittle.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm not trying to justify the players performances, I'll happily call them not good enough, poor quality, and unprofessional when they deserve to be called it, but with everything thats happened in the last season from Warbs POV I'm amazed he's back on the pitch at all.

He looks like he needs the AI's off, get a few club games under his belt, and return for the 6N fully fit and firing.

Well then why is he playing at all? Players know when they fit or not. Surely the club have fitness tests to put him through. If Warburton is so unfit that he cannot even run from ruck to ruck then how did he get on the pitch in the first place? None of things you have said lessen the fact he didn't try. They might indicate why a player might play poorly. Warburton didn't try. Many players didn't try.

If you genuinely believe that Warburton and some of his fellow players went out there and gave a thoroughly professional performance then I respect your opinion and will leave it there otherwise we will just go round and round in circles like a bad Christmas pantomine. Warburton might be professional trainer, but on this occasion he abrogated his responsibilities as a professional to go out and put in effort to a club that pay his wages.

Didn't try??

Mate listen to yourself, your claiming to know the intimate thoughts of players!!!

I'll repeat he isn't the Blues captain!!!

I personally don't think he should be on the pitch, he clearly isn't fit but he obviously feels he has to play to help the club that is floating belly up and wants to be there for Wales. How many young players do you know who don't want to play when even half fit??

Not trying and not giving the top inch or 2 are two different things.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:What we have in Wales is provinces with poor coaches and good players. They have a surplus of money at the WRU but want to spend it on central contracts. Why not go out and hire yourself some good coaches?

Absolutely nail-on-the-head right. You'd think that the WRU, having seen the difference that bringing in Gatland and Edwards made to what was largely the same group of players who had flopped at the 2007 World Cup, would have recognised the importance of a good coaching team. But, sadly, no. What we have now are former players given the task of coaching the regions (bar Darren Edwards, who coached Wales at age-group level - but let's not talk about him. Please, for the love of BOD, let's not talk about him!). Now there's no doubting that Leinster have some fine players on their books; but I don't think anyone would dispute that Joe Schmidt, and Michael Chieka before him, has been key to their success.

Cari wrote:Any of the Welsh posters watching Scrum V now on BBC 2 Wales? Jiffy being very critical of the Blues players rather than the coaching. He's got a point.

Isn't Phil JIffy's brother in-law? Just wondering how many people would come out and say on TV 'yeah it's my brotehr in-laws fault, yes he should be sacked'.

Yes, he's married to Jiffy's sister.

Luckless so basically he is far from an impartial pundit when it comes to Phil. Not sure that was the full reasoning behind Jioffy's defence of him, but it did seem that he was a bit more defensive towards Phil than he would be any other coach int eh same position.

Well you can understand why. Maybe given how the Blues got on, it would have been wise if they'd given Jiffy the day off rather than put him in that position.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Now there's no doubting that Leinster have some fine players on their books; but I don't think anyone would dispute that Joe Schmidt, and Michael Chieka before him, has been key to their success.

There is of course reason in that...but very much reason too in the idea that Leinster, a side that always had running convictions if soft on the sturdy forwards underbelly you need to release that kind of game, has been key to the success of Joe Schmidt and Michael Cheika.
Leinster benefitted from their help, they certainly benefitted in turn from their association with Leinster. It's easy to say Leinster hit lucky with two great coaches. But Leinster was the side that was determined to get to where it's big southern neighbour was - the centre of Europe. Leinster had the desire, its players had the urge and determination to put in the hard slog.
Leinster had the ambition and knew they had the players to reach Munster's standards. Leinster players too themselves were instrumental in determining when Cheika had done his bit and when they needed someone else to renew their relationship with backs orientated rugby. Sexton was actually instrumental in getting Schmidt - it was the players who wanted the coach, not the coach who chose the players or the team. Leinster gave Schmidt his happy hunting ground just as much as he helped them be happy

It helps that Leinster were no sow's ear in the first place, Fly.

Didn't get to the game, just saw the replay on Tetanta. Leinster finally clicked into gear, it was clear that Cardiff did not want to be in the game.

I've far more respect for Cuthbert after this game though, on a side that completely gave up the ghost he was by far the standout player.

I would have preferred a better defensive display by Leinster in the second half (the game was over but they need to tighten that part of their game).