Scotland vs All Blacks @ 2.30pm Sunday 11 Nov Murrayfield

Traynor

We're down to bare bones if he's been called up

Poor Scotland. They were first up in 2010 after NZ had that loss in HK which chastised them. Expect the top team to be rolled out and a big win methinks.

Other than Traynor that is much to be expected with the current injuries - I hope he's not there as tighthead cover???

Just realised there's only 4 props in the squad - he's going to be on the bench.

Actually, where's Tonks??? Murchie had one good game but has been fairly average in the rest - Tonks has been one of the standout players for Edinburgh this year.

I hope he's not going to be another added to the list of people that Robinson will never rate...

No Morrison Though!

so from that lot, the Scottish team I expect to be put to the sword will look like :

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Cross
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Brown [C] (so good to have you back Kelly!)
7. Barclay
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. S. Lamont
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Visser
15. Hogg

16. Jacobsen
17. Hall
18. Kellock
19. Rennie
20. Prygos
21. Dunbar
22. Jackson

Although I must confess I would like to see what would happen with Laidlaw at 9 and Jackson at 10.

Normally a team has a glimmer of hope going into a game like this. Not this time however. We have absolutley no chance of victory. As long as we don't get steam rollered I'll be happy.

Radge I know you're a prop and all but I thought even you would know that Visser is a left winger....!

There's a differance?

Don't get me started again...

I always thought Wingers just stood out on the touch line and waited for the ball to be passed to them and then they run towards the opposition try line.

Now you are bringing in left's and right's and expecting someone from the front row to understand what you mean?

Either way hopefully we can get through the match without resorting to Traynor. We'll just have to hope that Dr Cross can last the entire 80 minutes. Has Grant ever played tight head?

Not that I would want to encourage such an experiment particularly against the All Blacks but he could make the switch to 3 when chunk comes on or can cover 3 should anything happen to the good doctor.

Pretty much the squad of what I thought apart from kyle traynor. We must really be struggling at 3 if he is in there as cover. He can't even scrummage at 1 which is his better position. If we were that short I'd have preferred to have seen Gordon Reid who has played 3 before and looks semi decent. I'm surprised Grant Shiells isn't in there at least for experience of training with the squad.
Also thought Chris Fusaro might have been in there as he has been playing better than Barclay!

Are we not having 3 front row subs now? So as I said early - Traynor is defo on the bench?

Radge, how come you'd have Rennie on the bench? I thought he was nailed on as a starter!

I've seen Barclay play once this season, and was a little underwhelmed...

Bacrlay hasn't stood out, but neither has Rennie. I'd still pick Rennie on the basis of what I know he can do with Scotland - and showed that last year.

Barclay hasn't wowed me at any time. He just hasn't made mistakes. Rennie really needed to have a big game against the Sarries and he was one of the Edinburgh players who was utterly annonymous.

Gray's injury must be a worry if both Ryder and Gilchrist are in. I was hoping Beattie might have made the cut this time. I thought Harley might have been included too, but I realise that would have upped the number of semi fit players and altered the balance we look like we've got in this squad.

Other than that I'm pretty happy with the squad. We've been unlucky with injuries but we are increasing our depth every time the squad gets together.

To follow on from the other thread on our options at prop. I hear our A team are set to announce a game against England in February. Can anyone tell me if Grant Shiells has been capped yet? If not, lets cap him asap.

RDW as far as i am aware it is now 2 props on the bench. If that is the case I am guessing this is just the squad for the all blacks game as thought that Euan Murray would still be attending the training sessions at the St andrews!

Where's Dan Parks?

Majestic83 wrote:RDW as far as i am aware it is now 2 props on the bench. If that is the case I am guessing this is just the squad for the all blacks game as thought that Euan Murray would still be attending the training sessions at the St andrews!

So is there an extra slot on the bench? is it a 23 man squad?

I definitely start Rennie over Barclay to be honest- evengiven current form. Rennie's proved consistently that he can perform on the International stage, and he's an excellent poacher. I didn't mind Barclay at 8 actually, although it was a slightly lighter pack overall. Hearing a lot about Chris Fusaro, and seem him play a couple of times. Impressive player, and swings a good punch too! (Scott MacLeod)

Of all the names I'm happy to see back Kelly Brown's name is right at the top. The man is a fantastic rugby player.

Surely he'll be taking the captaincy.

As far as i know it's supposed to be a 23 man squad for match days. Unless they have changed it and it is being brought in for the 6 nations but the last i read it was for the autumn tests the new rule is brought in for!

Good to see Horne/Dunbar get their chance. What are the odds of Horne starting at 12? After all, Scott hasn't started at 12 much this season, Atiga being named ahead of him. Morrison isn't there. Dunbar's been playing 13 and Slamont has been on the wing consistently in recent times. Thoughts?

Also, Fusaro must be banging his head against a wall, while Beattie probably needs more game time to stake a claim (being injured for most of the start of the season)

I think we'll definitely see Scott at 12. He was given an extended pre season and has been eased back into the season - they're obviously hoping big things from him and he deserves his shot after a good summer tour.

Scotts certainly the incumbent, I agree. However, with little game time this season to his name, I wonder what AR's thoughts are re 12.

I can almost see SLamont being named 12 for experience and muscle to try and deal with the AB midfield.

On another note.... seems Tommy Seymore has nailed his colours on the wall. Good for him!

but does he play left or right wing

Manky-Flanker wrote:Scotts certainly the incumbent, I agree. However, with little game time this season to his name, I wonder what AR's thoughts are re 12.

I can almost see SLamont being named 12 for experience and muscle to try and deal with the AB midfield.

Lets be fair, NDL these days doesn't shirk away from his defencive duties. Of all the Edinburgh players he is the man who pretty much always gets his opposition's number in the games.

Who would have thought a couple of years ago that NDL would be a pillar of the Scottish defence?

At least you can say we would've won if Euan Murray had been able to play...

It'll be interesting to see the game played with the new laws like the 5 second ruck law. Australia didn't want to play that way so this will be the first time most of the ABs will be using those laws. I don't think it'll be a problem for them as they aim to clear the ball away as quickly as possible but Scotland would be advised to not try the same tactics two years ago in terms of trying to play the game at pace. Territory and slowing AB ball down. That's their best hope of being competitive.

This is a good squad which I can't really argue with. I agree that Tonks deserves to be included but frankly Hogg is going to start at 15 so I don't think it really matters.

No selection blunders here, which is a blessing. Curious that Max Evans is in the squad, I thought he was injured and I haven't seen him on a Castres teamsheet for a while.

Pleased to see Gilchrist involved. Certainly one for the future.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Manky-Flanker wrote:Scotts certainly the incumbent, I agree. However, with little game time this season to his name, I wonder what AR's thoughts are re 12.

I can almost see SLamont being named 12 for experience and muscle to try and deal with the AB midfield.

Lets be fair, NDL these days doesn't shirk away from his defencive duties. Of all the Edinburgh players he is the man who pretty much always gets his opposition's number in the games.

Who would have thought a couple of years ago that NDL would be a pillar of the Scottish defence?

De Luca is probably the only Back to come out of the Heineken debacle with his reputation intact.

No Tonks I guess Murchie got the nudge over him then? Still I thought he was a definite inclusion.. bad decision i think.

My starting lineup if fit

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Cross
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Pyrgos
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. S Lamont
15. Hogg

16. Jacobsen
17. Ryder
18. MacInally
19. Blair
20. Jackson
21. Murchie
22. Seymour

RDW_Scotland wrote:Actually, where's Tonks??? Murchie had one good game but has been fairly average in the rest - Tonks has been one of the standout players for Edinburgh this year.

I hope he's not going to be another added to the list of people that Robinson will never rate...

Agreed! I am not impressed with that decision. The new caps are heavily Glasgow influenced it seems, I am at a loss as to how Tonks could not have been included. Edinburgh have had some shocking games this year but in everyone of them that Tonks has played in he has had a terrific game. Feel sorry for him, he deserved to be called up.

Although saying that Tonks hasn't been as good the last couple games and was dropped by Edinburgh for the sarries game which maybe was a blessing in disguise for him. Murchie on the other hand does seem to have hit a bit of form the last couple of games which has probably swung it in his favour.

Said he had a hand injury for the sarries game.

Majestic83 wrote:Although saying that Tonks hasn't been as good the last couple games and was dropped by Edinburgh for the sarries game which maybe was a blessing in disguise for him. Murchie on the other hand does seem to have hit a bit of form the last couple of games which has probably swung it in his favour.

hand injury. sprained his thumb badly against treviso

Who is Traynor ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Who is Traynor ?

Kyle "I tried scrumming against a shopping trolley and lost" Traynor

The dud who used to play for Edinburgh ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Who is Traynor ?

i think that's what they call their tackle bags over in Embra

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:Although saying that Tonks hasn't been as good the last couple games and was dropped by Edinburgh for the sarries game which maybe was a blessing in disguise for him. Murchie on the other hand does seem to have hit a bit of form the last couple of games which has probably swung it in his favour.

hand injury. sprained his thumb badly against treviso

Tonks was the 24th man for that game, he was fit to play but from what i heard from inside the camp he was dropped after his performance the
game before!

Shaping up for an utter hammering -

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Shaping up for an utter hammering -

Can't help but fear the same. I just hope the score won't be as bad as last time around.

Looking forward the future though if Matt Scott can develop nicely at IC then our future back line could be very impressive with a number of options for the outside positions.

RWC 2015
9. Pyrgos
10. Weir
11. McVisser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Slightly concerned about future scum halves though:

Henry Pyrgos is 23, performing well for Glasgow as backup to Cusiter but yet to nail the 9 shirt as his own. Our best young prospect and deserves a go at the top.
Alex Black is 22 and is Embra's 3rd choice SH behind Rees and Leck. Small signs of potential.
Peter Jericevich (Glasgow Hawks/Warriors) is 24 and apart from two 7s caps hasn't shown full pro potential but is still attached to Glasgow's fringe squad so we will see if he ever makes the step up to full time pro.

Are the any young, promising SHs that I have missed?

Who's that young fella from Saracens who played very well at the Melrose 7s this year? I think he's played for Scotland age groups.

Does anyone suppose Chris Leck will represent Scotland under residency rules?

Bit harsh if tonks was dropped - I've never seen him play badly yet!

SlipperyAsAWetTrout wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Shaping up for an utter hammering -

Can't help but fear the same. I just hope the score won't be as bad as last time around.

Looking forward the future though if Matt Scott can develop nicely at IC then our future back line could be very impressive with a number of options for the outside positions.

RWC 2015
9. Pyrgos
10. Weir
11. McVisser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Slightly concerned about future scum halves though:

Henry Pyrgos is 23, performing well for Glasgow as backup to Cusiter but yet to nail the 9 shirt as his own. Our best young prospect and deserves a go at the top.
Alex Black is 22 and is Embra's 3rd choice SH behind Rees and Leck. Small signs of potential.
Peter Jericevich (Glasgow Hawks/Warriors) is 24 and apart from two 7s caps hasn't shown full pro potential but is still attached to Glasgow's fringe squad so we will see if he ever makes the step up to full time pro.

Are the any young, promising SHs that I have missed?

Who's that young fella from Saracens who played very well at the Melrose 7s this year? I think he's played for Scotland age groups.

Does anyone suppose Chris Leck will represent Scotland under residency rules?

Slippery, not 100% convinced by Pyrgos and Weir yet, but OMG:

11. McVisser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

...not since the days of Renwick and Irvine have Scotland had that much talent in their outside backs

ASBO
Good to see your Maitland wish came to fruition, just sing out when you want some more.


PS: usual fee applies.

aucklandlaurie,

How about a tighthead and a flyhalf, any going about that have any vague connection to scotland?!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Slippery, not 100% convinced by Pyrgos and Weir yet, but OMG:

11. McVisser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

...not since the days of Renwick and Irvine have Scotland had that much talent in their outside backs

It's indeed exiting to dare to imagine, but what a back line!
Also I agree about Pyrgos and Weir, unfortunately i can't see any other options through my crystal ball. I am also guilty of forgetting about Grieg Laidlaw (oops) who will indeed be around for 2015 - i fancy him at SH instead of Pyrgos.

SlipperyAsAWetTrout wrote:

Slightly concerned about future scum halves though:

Henry Pyrgos is 23, performing well for Glasgow as backup to Cusiter but yet to nail the 9 shirt as his own. Our best young prospect and deserves a go at the top.
Alex Black is 22 and is Embra's 3rd choice SH behind Rees and Leck. Small signs of potential.
Peter Jericevich (Glasgow Hawks/Warriors) is 24 and apart from two 7s caps hasn't shown full pro potential but is still attached to Glasgow's fringe squad so we will see if he ever makes the step up to full time pro.

Are the any young, promising SHs that I have missed?

Who's that young fella from Saracens who played very well at the Melrose 7s this year? I think he's played for Scotland age groups.

Does anyone suppose Chris Leck will represent Scotland under residency rules?

Off the top of my head? Sean Kennedy, Murray McConnell, Scott Steele, Matt Torrance, Alex Glashan, Murdo McAndrew.

Kennedy is on loan from Edinburgh to Glasgow atm. One start, probably glasgows best player on the pitch, although not flawless. Showed huge potential with the u20's a couple of seasons ago. If he realises his potential, hell be well ahead of pyrgos imo.

Murray McConnell is an EDP at Glasgow. Bags of potential, but not really had any chances to show it due to injury this season, and little squad rotation last season. Shared the 9 jersey at the recent u20's WC with Matt Torrance, formerly of the Ospreys. Neither really made the shirt their own however, and Torrance has since been ditched by the ospreys in the wake of Shinglergate, likely due to opting for Scotland.

Scott Steele was completely missed by the youth system and passed over by the pro academies. Got himself in at Leicester Tigers instead and has featured for them in LV cup matches I believe, however dont quote me on that. Cant really see him breaking into the first team unless Youngs gets ousted from the England set up by Care (possibly)and Dickson (unlikely) and inevitably moves to France, with Micky Young becoming first choice. Still, who knows what could happen.

I havent seen Alex Glashan play, but people who have claim hes the second coming of Christ Mike Blair circa 06/08, which is probably the biggest expectations of all of them. Playing for the 7's atm, need to keep an eye out for him before I either join or reject the bandwagon. Still, youth potential doesnt always translate to the senior stage, so well see.

Murdo McAndrew got snapped up into the Clermont academy this season relatively under the radar, especially compared to Mark Bennett. Couldnt comment other than Clermont mustve seen something they liked.

The only Scottish qualified guy i can remember being in the saracens 7's team was Ben Ransom, but he was a full back, and hes set his sights on England.

As for Chris Leck, im not sure we really want/ will need him by the time he qualifies. Outstanding pass on him, but just not international quality froma what ive seen of him at embra. It would also be a sad day when Scotland start relying on Residency qualified scrum-halves of all positions.

The scrum half for Saracens at the melrose 7s was Ali Price who is on a dual contract with Bedford.