BOD vs Kidney

OK guys I've been watching this one brewing for a while.

Look it's no secret to anyone who read BODs 2007 autobiography My Grandslam year... er sorry no that was Hensons.. .. that he doesn't really rate Kidney and the two aren't exactly bossom buddies. Rumours were abound when Kidney got the Ireland job that BOD's days were numbered and POC would be made captain.

Then the GS happened, BOD was back to his best and the rest is history........ Kidney and BOD went on to form the most unlikely partnership in Ireland (well apart from Paisley and McGuinness) and all was well in team Ireland...... until now.

Results have getting worse year on year...culminating in a 60 nil debacle in NZ in the summer... then rumours emerged of a bust up down in NZ with players not happy about the attacking direction of the team.

BOD then publically criticises the coaching set up, particularly the attack coaching and lack of clear direction on that front, in a newspaper interview....possibly a strong hint that he wants his buddy Joe Schmidt brought in..

Kidney responds by bringing in his old Munster allie Foley and moving Les Kiss permanently into the attack role, despite BOD's fairly unsubtle hint that he and the players weren't too happy with the latter's, a specialist defence coach, performance in that particular role... coincidence, or Kidney putting his iconic captain in his place??

dum dum dum... watch this space... this one is just warming up.... the gloves are coming off ......

You Irish!!!! You're still on this "The coach is the Problem" lark?

Us outsiders know that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Ireland that a good 6.5 player couldn't solve. Leave Mk Cidknee alone and grow up.

Given you are from the North and therefore expert at identifying conspiracy theories its not a bad one (B+).

But here are some facts.

BOD and Kidney have always got on. Even when DK left Leinster BOD never criticised him the way Victor Meldrew and Malcolm O'Sleepy did. Because he knew the real reason which was not publicised and which Kidney didnt want known generally.

Secondly BOD comments were more pointed at the IRFU and their approach and the constraints placed on the team.

As for the problems with the team in general...sure the coaches could do better but BOD also knows the players are not stepping up.

does anyone have a link to this article

Yes but DOD old bean you should never let facts get in the way of a good story

O'Driscoll comments on player and coaching issues at Ireland International.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/players-must-put-ireland-before-clubs-says-brian-odriscoll-3239674.html

Quite what the level of preparedness for a successful season is remains open to question. Six months on from advertising the position of scrum coach, the IRFU has yet to fill the vacancy.

And eyebrows were arched last season when, rather than replace backs coach Alan Gaffney, the job was simply added to the portfolio of existing defence coach Les Kiss.

O'Driscoll doesn't deny there have been issues.

"We've spoken about this since New Zealand," he says, "and I think we just need to get clarity on who the point of reference is for our attacking game. In New Zealand, I think we could just have gotten our detail a little bit better.

"We've got to look at making sure that everyone is getting the same message. But, when you have Declan overseeing things, Les doing the backs, Gert (Smal) doing the forwards and Les also doing defence and you want to ask a particular question about an area of general attack, there's a number of different people that you could go to there.

"So it's making sure that we're all -- coaches and players -- collectively singing off the same hymn sheet".

Deccies response? He brings in Foley....

Take from that what you will .......

"But I'm sure the powers that be [IRFU] know who's going to come in and do that role on a full-time basis."

You need to read on a bit further Rods (sorry to spoil the fun).

(As far as I can remember, BOD & Foley get on well together. Foley took BOD under his wing when he was first made Ireland captain).

I will say this. Had Schmidt been asked to do a backs job (ie brought in instead of Forwards Foley) - I think he'd just have resisted the idea right now anyway. So, people mention him as a kind of floating freelance prospect for attack support whenever Ireland play but it's impractical just now.

Leinster are in enough trouble this year. Ireland will have a good few of their players, having their coach too would only disrupt things much too much.

So if we need an extra attack organiser then we should forget the Schmidt possibility and just go find someone else for now...if finding someone is actually on the cards.

Only problem with that is that in a later interview Kidney as much as said his system doesn't need anyone else and he'll patch and double job his way because he's happy enough with how it works.

That's the real distinction between the minds of O'Driscoll and Kidney. One thinks it's an issue, the other doesn't.

Fly, Kidney has to back his existing coaches.

You are right about Leinster being in trouble. Can't believe no one has noticed that Leinster scored only 1 try in the HC in their last 2 games and Clermont scored 12.

Something not quite right about the Leinster attack that seems to have gone over people's heads.

Its also gone over people's heads that Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns this year and that the problem was defence!

Sin é wrote:Fly, Kidney has to back his existing coaches.

You are right about Leinster being in trouble. Can't believe no one has noticed that Leinster scored only 1 try in the HC in their last 2 games and Clermont scored 12.

Something not quite right about the Leinster attack that seems to have gone over people's heads.

Its also gone over people's heads that Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns this year and that the problem was defence!

Whose heads has this gone over? There are Leinster fans on other forums saying we are in a crisis.

Some of the Leinster players/journalists/former players who have said that Schmidt should be brought in to help Ireland out in attack and I'm pretty sure a lot of poster here still think he would be a shoe in to be Ireland's next coach if he was interested in the job.

Sin é wrote:Some of the Leinster players/journalists/former players who have said that Schmidt should be brought in to help Ireland out in attack and I'm pretty sure a lot of poster here still think he would be a shoe in to be Ireland's next coach.

Why wouldnt he be considered as ireland's next coach? He is one of the top coaches in the world. Are we not suppose to expect Ireland to have a good coach?

Sin é wrote:

Its also gone over people's heads that Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns this year and that the problem was defence!

I didn't ignore it. I made sure any Tom, Dick'n'Harry Welsh or English guy knew about it too when they were patting themselves on the back about how well they'd done back then. The issue Sin é is that had we shown much more in concerted attack - much more fluidity in wanting to attack rather than in constantly kicking away to defend - with that strike rate based on a negative defensive gameplan, we could have easily won the blasted 6 Nations! A grandslam too! Why do we want to settle for - 'here a few little bits and pieces we can do (scoring tries) but we're not interested in tying that ability into some kind of relentless attacking platform.' Nope, we'll just let attacking sides attack us instead.

Ireland in the CHCH test against NZ almost won. They played exactly the same suffocating, mass ruck excavating approach that Australia played last weekend. If they had won Kidney would be hailed a hero. Don't worry about the 60-0 loss. That was an abberation and reflective of the failure to adjust to the first "proper" tours of a long time, it was man management and fatigue management over any kind of fundmental internal structural issues.

BOD was a great center, but sadly his time is up and it is time for Ireland to move on. It is some common thing for "great" players to cause a bit of a ruckus on the way out, but it is rarely good for the team as a whole.

Sin é wrote:Fly, Kidney has to back his existing coaches.

You are right about Leinster being in trouble. Can't believe no one has noticed that Leinster scored only 1 try in the HC in their last 2 games and Clermont scored 12.

Something not quite right about the Leinster attack that seems to have gone over people's heads.

Its also gone over people's heads that Ireland were the top try scorers in the 6Ns this year and that the problem was defence!

Here is a stat you might also like sin. Last 6 games against higher ranked teams. Won 0. Drawn 1. Lost 5. Tries for 6. Tries against 19.

So much for our great attack.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Ireland in the CHCH test against NZ almost won. They played exactly the same suffocating, mass ruck excavating approach that Australia played last weekend. If they had won Kidney would be hailed a hero. Don't worry about the 60-0 loss. That was an abberation and reflective of the failure to adjust to the first "proper" tours of a long time, it was man management and fatigue management over any kind of fundmental internal structural issues.

BOD was a great center, but sadly his time is up and it is time for Ireland to move on. It is some common thing for "great" players to cause a bit of a ruckus on the way out, but it is rarely good for the team as a whole.

You know what I'm going to say to that, pain. Yep. He missed his chance

AWOP thanks for the input. Good points.

Ah here now lads don't you's be hijacking my thread into a Munster v Leinster thing.....

Oh sorry rodders. Em.................. Trimble doesn't like BOD either - so the story goes recently.

Now, there's a legit Ulster entry into the battle. Join in.

Thanks fly and he's not on great terms with Hurley these days either.... gees this thread could get messy.....

Best and Charlton didn't get on but the team seemed to do ok

anotherworldofpain wrote:Ireland in the CHCH test against NZ almost won. They played exactly the same suffocating, mass ruck excavating approach that Australia played last weekend. If they had won Kidney would be hailed a hero. Don't worry about the 60-0 loss. That was an abberation and reflective of the failure to adjust to the first "proper" tours of a long time, it was man management and fatigue management over any kind of fundmental internal structural issues.

BOD was a great center, but sadly his time is up and it is time for Ireland to move on. It is some common thing for "great" players to cause a bit of a ruckus on the way out, but it is rarely good for the team as a whole.

Nope,not if it was followed by the 60-0 capitulation.Kidney has history of getting one big performance then everything falls apart for the next 8 games.Beating NZ would rightly have earned him goodwill,hell even the losing performance did that but as usual it was followed by dross and I fully expect more of the same this November.We might just beat England or France at home in our 1 big game before Deccie is shown the door and his reign of terror consigned to the bin.

I think that where we expect to be now is no longer a rugby nation that can say things like 'don't worry about the 60-0 loss'.

Seriously, in the professional game 60-0 isn't ever acceptable.

I hate this attacking stat thats thrown out, because we hammered Italy and Scotland. Those were good results for us in another mixed bag of a Six Nations and we shouldn't take them for granted but for God's sake look at how we attacked in the other three games. We looked scared of the ball against England! Rabbits in the headlights. No-one knew what they were meant to be doing.

I think an attack coach is neither here nor there, we probably need a completely new start.