Ten reasons Armstrong will always be a hero!!

First topic message reminder :

1. Anybody who wins the Tour de France once let alone seven times deserves huge respect..
2. He's American.
3. He had less than a 30% chance to live and went through hell and lived to tell the tale..
4. Number 1 again x100 after cancer!!
5. His team basically sacked him at his lowest ebb and in his darkest hour...
6. He dabbled in an age that was saturated by the stuff so it was hardly "cheating"
7. After the French stance before and during the Iraq war I'm glad someone screwed them over!!
8. He's saved lot's of lives and raised huge amounts for good causes...
9. He's the ultimate warrior!!!
10. It's a great film with Bo Derek in!!

we've got a lance fan among us, still! ^

Olly wrote:Have read the transcript and whilst it's good to see he admitted it finally, I don't think enough has come out about it for the sport of cycling to move on.

Cycling needs more details of how it was run and names. I hope there is a follow case by the UCI in which Lance cooperates to help cycling finally get all the details and answers.

Eh, dont you think the reason the UCI have been so quiet is probably because they have been involved in cover ups themselves. Lets not pretend that everyone hasnt known for a very long time that Lance is a cheat. So why no action from the UCI. Dont expect any case from them, you cant bring someone down when they can bring you with them.

Lance is ruined. He is a bully, a fraud and a cheat. He should do jail time but he probably wont. Fair deuce to him for coming clean, though lets not kid ourselves he wouldnt have if he knew he could get away with it. He had absolutly no choice.

As morbid and un-pc as this sounds I really hope he isnt one day found hanging from the rafters of some hotel room. There should be some form of redemption for someone who has done good in his life too. He definitly should be sued for everything he has, he should do some jail time and receive a lifetime ban from cycling.

However, I also think that even if he was declared bankrupt tomorrow he would be the sort of character that would bounce back and become a success in what ever he does. The finance industry is full characters who have back stabbed and cheated their way to the top.

Lance is ruined. He is a bully, a fraud and a cheat

That about sums it up in my view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43EE9I8ZMFc interview part 1

Biltong wrote:

Lance is ruined. He is a bully, a fraud and a cheat

That about sums it up in my view.

Ha Biltong. You moderating cycling now too?

LuvSports! wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43EE9I8ZMFc interview part 1

Thanks for that.

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Lance is ruined. He is a bully, a fraud and a cheat

That about sums it up in my view.

Ha Biltong. You moderating cycling now too?

No mate, just stepped in here when I saw the thread, I read up some articles on what the guy has done and I find it utterly disgraceful that someone not only did what he did for so long, but the manner in which he protected his secrets by sueing anyone that threatened to uncover or expose his doings.

It makes you wonder how he got away with it for so long though.

Here you have a guy who made himself a multimillionaire by cheeting.

If you look at how we scorn people who climb the corporate ladder in such a fashion they will be indicted for illegal actions, perhaps there should be a criminal case for this. How many innocent people got damaged by his doings?

GunsGerms wrote:

Olly wrote:Have read the transcript and whilst it's good to see he admitted it finally, I don't think enough has come out about it for the sport of cycling to move on.

Cycling needs more details of how it was run and names. I hope there is a follow case by the UCI in which Lance cooperates to help cycling finally get all the details and answers.

Eh, dont you think the reason the UCI have been so quiet is probably because they have been involved in cover ups themselves. Lets not pretend that everyone hasnt known for a very long time that Lance is a cheat. So why no action from the UCI. Dont expect any case from them, you cant bring someone down when they can bring you with them.

I'd like to believe they weren't involved if I'm honest mate. Although I do understand where you are coming from and it is the most rational explanation tbh

Pat McQuaid is probably very very worried right now. I reckon he will be next on Oprah.

To be honest, from a quick scan of the transcript, it just sounds like he has admitted to the things that won't sent him to jail. And it's come far too late for the people like Emma O'Reilly who have had their lives ruined by him. It's a sorry affair.

"People like Tyler Hamilton will make more money from a book about how he cheated than I did riding my whole career clean." - Nicole Cooke. Pretty much sums it up.

apparently he wont go to jail as the perjury claim sentence is five years after his testimony and that has run out but he will still be open to many lawsuits obvs

Biltong wrote:

Here you have a guy who made himself a multimillionaire by cheeting.

You think he's the only one?

At least cycling is trying to clean itself up to an extent...

When you consider the vast doping program there was at USP/Discovery, and how it was implemented... EPO, testosterone and cortisone, and blood doping - mainly acting to help endurance, recuperation, and recovery from injury. Given how easy it was for cyclists to get away with doping during the late 90s and early 00s, do people really think other equally or more lucrative sports in which endurance and recovery are major factors are clean?

I also think it's fair to say that cycling is much cleaner now than it was during the Armstrong years. Why? First of all, because there is a real and concerted effort to catch the cheats nowadays, even if they are at the top (e.g. Contador); secondly because average speeds are down, and times are a lot slower. You don't see the crazy sustained attacks you used to, and you don't see teams spending the whole tour blowing everyone away as USP used to.*

*the one team which does leave me a bit suspicious at the moment is Sky, whatever their strict anti-doping policy. Some of their racing during the TdF but in particular the early stages of the Vuelta reminded me uncomfortably of USP in their pomp. Having said that, it was usually for much shorter stretches (and in the Vuelta it was noticeable they couldn't keep it up).

I'd totally agree on your points that Cycling is a much cleaner sport now Mike.

Your point about Sky at the TDF is more about the money they have behind them. They have by far and away the best team of riders in cycling, but remember they were controlling it for mountain stages and part of the flat only. Not the entire race

Mike Selig wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Here you have a guy who made himself a multimillionaire by cheeting.

You think he's the only one?

I am pretty sure he isn't the only one, I am sure cycling isn't the only sport in which doping occurs, however the manner in which Armstrong did it and the manner in which he would protect himself by sueing everyoe and his dog that tried to make his transgressions public must be the worst of them all.

What is he going to do now?

Send everyone a letter of apology. " Hey mate, really sorry aboutsueing you about those allegations you made about me cheating, I know you were telling the truth at the time, but I was really enjoying making all that money and getting so much attention, the accolades thrown my way and those trophies really boosted my ego as well, but sorry anyway."

Olly wrote:I'd totally agree on your points that Cycling is a much cleaner sport now Mike.

Your point about Sky at the TDF is more about the money they have behind them. They have by far and away the best team of riders in cycling, but remember they were controlling it for mountain stages and part of the flat only. Not the entire race

Yeah maybe. I agree they only controlled parts of the race (I did mention that I think). But watching the likes of EBH and Bernie Eisel ride at the front on climbs... Part of the legacy from the 90s and 00s is that anytime we see someone dominating a race we'll always be a bit sceptical. Perhaps it's better that way - once bitten twice shy and all that.

Anyway I look forward to the day where one of these drug doctors actually tell the truth. Some fans of other sports who are quick to give cycling a bashing could be in for a shock...

Not bashing cycling mate, I am bashing Armstrong.

Didn't mean you or anybody on these boards really. Just a general comment.

In the order of chivalry, alongside Lance, where would we now place those pillars of virtue Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis?

Is a snake in the grass the next stage up in the evolution of Man?

GunsGerms... Jail time?? Bit harsh isnt it? Biltong,I know he cheated but really he a saint compared to most Multimillionaire businessmen.

kingjohn7 wrote:GunsGerms... Jail time?? Bit harsh isnt it? Biltong,I know he cheated but really he a saint compared to most Multimillionaire businessmen.

Nonsense. Many people who make a fortune do so by giving people what they want, better than anyone else can.

That crack is just envy.

Envy? From me? No mate, dont get me wrong I wouldnt mind a ton of cash but I dont begrudge someone else. Yes, many people have made money by giving some people what they want, but a lot of the time at the expense of others. Nice cheap goods on sale? Nobody gets the shiote end of that deal im sure.

bogbrush wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:GunsGerms... Jail time?? Bit harsh isnt it? Biltong,I know he cheated but really he a saint compared to most Multimillionaire businessmen.

Nonsense. Many people who make a fortune do so by giving people what they want, better than anyone else can.

That crack is just envy.

Hmmmm, integrity and honesty is not for sale mate, you lose that you never get it back.

Before he returned in 2009, he asked his ex-wife if this was a good idea. She gave her blessing, but on one condition that he would not cross the line. He honoured his word and stayed clean.

Aha...

What was the moral of the story?

"The truth will set you free," so said his jesus-freak ex-wife, Christine.

So, he has done it for Jesus.

God, I sinned

kingjohn7 wrote:GunsGerms... Jail time?? Bit harsh isnt it? Biltong,I know he cheated but really he a saint compared to most Multimillionaire businessmen.

Not at all. He stole an awful lot of money. He ruined Emma O'Reilly. For what he did to her alone he should go to jail. Purjury is a crime, calling an innocent woman a lady of loose morals publically and suing her for all her money is a disgusting crime. This is just one of the many things he did.

What a lot of people just dont get is A he is only coming clean because he has no choice and B he is still telling a mountain of lies.

Well said Guns.

Ok you converted me. There was no need to do that to that to Emma O'Reilly, bang out of order.

Emma is a gem, a diamond in the rough.

She blew the whistle 'cos she couldn't bear that the sport became so dirty. Her mighty conscience wouldn't let her see the dirt day after day.

How much we would like our daughters to follow her footsteps!

He also destroyed that French cyclist who was hounded out of the TDF. Probably many others too.

On the issue of drugs in sport - i'm of the opinion that it's probably very wide spread and across all sports. Testing is just not rigorous enough and there's no money in it.

WRT cycling, the French guy gave an interview on 606 yesterday in which he said that he is certain that doping is still a huge problem in cycling. He said something needs to be done about it now, rather than people making the assumption that riders are now clean. He said that all the means and culture that allowed doping in LA's day are still very much present today. He believes that in ten years time, people will discover that he was right again.

I have no idea how true his statements are but he certainly seemed to be one of the few riders with integrity, and that cost him everything.

"I have no idea how true his statements are"

"but he seemed to be one of the few riders with integrity"

okay...

Biltong wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:GunsGerms... Jail time?? Bit harsh isnt it? Biltong,I know he cheated but really he a saint compared to most Multimillionaire businessmen.

Nonsense. Many people who make a fortune do so by giving people what they want, better than anyone else can.

That crack is just envy.

Hmmmm, integrity and honesty is not for sale mate, you lose that you never get it back.

I have to contest this idea that you can only be successful in business by lying and cheating. Honestly.

GunsGerms wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:GunsGerms... Jail time?? Bit harsh isnt it? Biltong,I know he cheated but really he a saint compared to most Multimillionaire businessmen.

Not at all. He stole an awful lot of money. He ruined Emma O'Reilly. For what he did to her alone he should go to jail. Purjury is a crime, calling an innocent woman a lady of loose morals publically and suing her for all her money is a disgusting crime. This is just one of the many things he did.

What a lot of people just dont get is A he is only coming clean because he has no choice and B he is still telling a mountain of lies.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"I have no idea how true his statements are"

"but he seemed to be one of the few riders with integrity"

okay...

What's the matter, too thick to use the quote button, as well as not being able to comprehend basic English?

Allow me to give you an idiots guide.

The statements I was referring to were the ones he made concerning doping in Cycling. He may believe that doping is still rife but he could be wrong. He could, for example, be misinformed. Hence I have no idea how true his statements are.

Comprende?

bogbrush I wasnt saying that everyone that is successful in business was a liar and cheat, just that there are plenty.

Rather than give me an idiot's guide..

I'd rather you just go away and stop wumming on all the different sporting threads you puke on..

I agree with Truss some people will always see him as a hero. He survived cancer and came back. The drugs were the reason he won his TdFs but he had to be an elite athlete just to get back to that level.

You can't give a half dead man some EPO and a few blood transfusions and all of a sudden he's capable of winning one of sports toughest challenges 7 years running.

He was clearly a man with a lot of heart and an incredible desire to win which should always be respected. People make mistakes and he made a big one at least he did good with his money. Tyler Hamilton cashed in on his doping and is being treated like some sort of honest saviour when he was every bit as bad as Armstrong.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:I agree with Truss some people will always see him as a hero. He survived cancer and came back. The drugs were the reason he won his TdFs but he had to be an elite athlete just to get back to that level.

You can't give a half dead man some EPO and a few blood transfusions and all of a sudden he's capable of winning one of sports toughest challenges 7 years running.

He was clearly a man with a lot of heart and an incredible desire to win which should always be respected. People make mistakes and he made a big one at least he did good with his money. Tyler Hamilton cashed in on his doping and is being treated like some sort of honest saviour when he was every bit as bad as Armstrong.

Am sorry but the lives he destroyed in the process of proclaiming is innocence is just plain wrong. Despicable man who tried destroy anyone he tarnished his 'good' name. He's got a lot of making up to do. And I agree Tyler Hamilton is no saint but the last I heard he didn't sue any innocent people who dared to cross him.

Am also pretty sure Lance wasn't half dead whilst competing in the Tour!

He could gain back some respectability now with full disclosure but by going off the answers in his interview, I can't see that being anytime soon.

It doesn't surprise me the he is one of TRUSSYS hero's.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

He was clearly a man with a lot of heart and an incredible desire to win which should always be respected. People make mistakes and he made a big one

Actually he made a catalogue of "mistakes" that could be documented in a hundred page document. He may have recovered from cancer but he is still a very sick person. He deserves to go to jail.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:I agree with Truss some people will always see him as a hero. He survived cancer and came back. The drugs were the reason he won his TdFs but he had to be an elite athlete just to get back to that level.

You can't give a half dead man some EPO and a few blood transfusions and all of a sudden he's capable of winning one of sports toughest challenges 7 years running.

He was clearly a man with a lot of heart and an incredible desire to win which should always be respected. People make mistakes and he made a big one at least he did good with his money. Tyler Hamilton cashed in on his doping and is being treated like some sort of honest saviour when he was every bit as bad as Armstrong.

Am sorry but the lives he destroyed in the process of proclaiming is innocence is just plain wrong. Despicable man who tried destroy anyone he tarnished his 'good' name. He's got a lot of making up to do. And I agree Tyler Hamilton is no saint but the last I heard he didn't sue any innocent people who dared to cross him.

Am also pretty sure Lance wasn't half dead whilst competing in the Tour!

He could gain back some respectability now with full disclosure but by going off the answers in his interview, I can't see that being anytime soon.

It doesn't surprise me the he is one of TRUSSYS hero's.

Micheal Jackson destroyed lives he was still considered a hero by many so it wouldn't surprise me if he was still a hero to some. My point wasn't that he was half dead when competing in the tour it was that it does take a hell of a lot of hard work to get back to competing in tours the drugs made him a winner not a competitor and becoming a competitor after that disease is a hell of a story.

As a sportsman I still have some respect for him he was clearly a very gifted athlete. Drugs were rife in the sport before him he didn't introduce it. That doesn't make it right but the incompetence of the people who ran the sport put riders in the position where they either doped or lost.

As a man you are right he is an awful person no argument from me about that but what do you expect from a cheat with so much to lose he tried everything in his power to keep it under wraps. I do think we will get the full story it will be in Armstrongs book. I bet works already started on it.

Was Micheal Jackson ever found guilty of anything? I believe there were a number of out of court settlements but that doesnt always mean an admission of guilt. Anyway, two very different stories.

Armstrong is a compulsive liar. There is absolutly no way his book will tell the full truth.

This reminds me of the Olympics- Americans claiming Bolt would have tested positive under USADA.

Conveniently forgetting
Carl Lewis
Marion Jones
and now Lance Armstrong.

re the matter- He really should go to jail, but a vast variety of people are literally lining up to sue him so he will get what he deserves.

It is true though, most sports were rotten to the core in the 90s and even recently. At this point, in time the NFL only test players in pre-season. The NBA doesnt test for marijuana, tennis doesnt do blood tests. Boxing doesnt even test for every championship fight.

The USADA a pretty hypocritical in this case. They have overlooked a lot of positive Olympians in search of a medal. I have no problem with a witch hunt, more especially considering how badly Armstrong has screwed multitudes. The problem for me lies in the people leading the witch hunt.

Poor example with Jacko Mike Tyson then convicted r***ist still a hero to many add 2Pac to that list as well. There is always people who will forgive great athletes/entertainers for their misdemeanour's because of what they did as a sportsman. Add in the cancer factor and Armstrong will still have a big fan base.

I think we will get the truth in the book because it has to have stuff in it he hasn't discussed yet or it isn't a big seller. Tell all and make a phenomenal amount of money and money is what has drove this story all along.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Poor example with Jacko Mike Tyson then convicted r***ist still a hero to many add 2Pac to that list as well. There is always people who will forgive great athletes/entertainers for their misdemeanour's because of what they did as a sportsman. Add in the cancer factor and Armstrong will still have a big fan base.

I think we will get the truth in the book because it has to have stuff in it he hasn't discussed yet or it isn't a big seller. Tell all and make a phenomenal amount of money and money is what has drove this story all along.

Sugar Ray are you from the US? Whats the general consensus on Ray Lewis? Wasnt he involved in some kind of murder charge but still now a hero.

Also how do people view Michael Vick?

Not everybody thinks Tyson was guilty.. Sugar.

Very poorly handled his case.

kingraf wrote:This reminds me of the Olympics- Americans claiming Bolt would have tested positive under USADA.

Conveniently forgetting
Carl Lewis
Marion Jones
and now Lance Armstrong.

I doubt he would have tested positive under USADA, but he wouldn't have been allowed the complete free reign he and his pals are afforded on the island.

Carl Lewis proved his so called doping came from a cold medicine.....

and it was proved......

Linford christie has had his problems......Jason Livingstone.

Shame your 400 metre runner forgot to take three tests in a row..

Get your own house in order!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Carl Lewis proved his so called doping came from a cold medicine.....

and it was proved......

Linford christie has had his problems......Jason Livingstone.

Shame your 400 metre runner forgot to take three tests in a row..

Get your own house in order!!

Carl Lewis was roided to the eyeballs, so was Linford.

So your only argument is 'You can't say anything bad against an American, because a British person once did something bad too'? I suppose it's better than carrying on with 'Never failed a drug test'.

Again - all credibility out of the window with the Christine O comments. I've tried to explain to you what happened (and how sports do drug testing these days), but you carry on getting it wrong. I often wonder whether some people just enjoy being wrong.

GunsGerms wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Poor example with Jacko Mike Tyson then convicted r***ist still a hero to many add 2Pac to that list as well. There is always people who will forgive great athletes/entertainers for their misdemeanour's because of what they did as a sportsman. Add in the cancer factor and Armstrong will still have a big fan base.

I think we will get the truth in the book because it has to have stuff in it he hasn't discussed yet or it isn't a big seller. Tell all and make a phenomenal amount of money and money is what has drove this story all along.

Sugar Ray are you from the US? Whats the general consensus on Ray Lewis? Wasnt he involved in some kind of murder charge but still now a hero.

Also how do people view Michael Vick?

No mate I'm from Glasgow.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not everybody thinks Tyson was guilty.. Sugar.

Very poorly handled his case.

I wouldn't argue with that but he is a convicted r***ist and so was 2Pac. My point was they were convicted for a far greater crime than anything Armstrong is guilty of. Tyson still enjoys hero status and 2Pac did and still does even after his death so I would presume Armstrong will still have a pretty strong fan base.