Ireland vs South Africa pre-match talk and squad announcements.

First topic message reminder :

The much anticipated Autumn Iinternationals has arrived and South Africa will begin their three test tour against Ireland on Saturday at Landsdowne road. With a record of only one win in their last four test matches and 3 straight losses between 2004 and 2009, the Springboks would like to continue their resurgence against Ireland and emulate their two point victory of 2010.

But will they be up for an Ireland team who have been just about as disappointing as the Springboks were in 2012.

Ireland who boast wins over Scotland and Italy and a Hard earned draw over France at Stade de France earlier in the year has a disappointing return of 5 losses, 2 wins and 1 draw for the year.

South Africa has not fared much better, with 4 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws for the year.

Both teams will rue lost opportunities during the year where execution and specifically goal kicking have haunted the Springboks in Particular. Their goal kickin records stands at a miserly 55% for the year and will lose you more tests than win.

Ireland will be without their inspirational captain Brian O'Driscoll and South Africa after a long season will bewithout the services of Arguably the best Hooker in world rugby Bismarck du Plessis, the athletic Andries Bekker, talisman Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, Heinrich Brussow, Johan Goosen, Bryan Habana (yeah I know I am complaining a bit much here), Frans Steyn and Coenie Oosthuizen.

Will this end of season tour be a bridge too far for an injury riddled South African squad or will they be able to overcome an Irish team who hasn't convinced this year.

Likely SA matchday 22.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger (Marco Wentzel)
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Patrick Lambie
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaco Taute
14. JP Pietersen
15. Zane Kirchner

Bench
16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Schalk Brits
18. Pat Cilliers
19. Flip v d Merwe
20. Marcelle Coetzee
21. Franco v d Merwe
22. Jan Vermaak
23. Morne Steyn

I'll update if someone provides me a likely Irish matchday 22.

I didn't want SA to win.

The exuberance of a newish team in the first half was undermined by its naivety in the second half.

Deserved victory by South Africa in the end.

Congrats South Africa.

HERSH wrote:I didn't want SA to win.

Of course you didnt, you just wanted Ireland to lose

better for the nh teams to bring ranking points back over here tbh.. unlucky ireland- that one will hurt, but at least you matched the play

Would have been hideous to watch SA 1st half v Wales 2nd half. Didn't think Ireland did too much wrong, with the injuries was always going to be a case of trying to put SA off their game and taking the points which they managed very well for half a game.

eirebilly wrote:

HERSH wrote:I didn't want SA to win.

Of course you didnt, you just wanted Ireland to lose

Not true at all eirebilly.

HERSH wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

HERSH wrote:I didn't want SA to win.

Of course you didnt, you just wanted Ireland to lose

Not true at all eirebilly.

You are a scamp

You just wanted the ranking points

POM screwed us over badly today folks. He needs to engage his brain more and calm the fug down.
ROG decided we werent going to take it to them in the end. What planet was he on. Apart from it being idiotic, the man outside him to chase was Iain Henderson.

Also, I'm not as good at reading play as a lot of you on here, but it confuses me how Bowe gets a fair bit of ball, but Trimble on the other wing doesnt. It seems like Trimble spends all day running on the shoulder of someone and ending up taking out the first opposition rucker.

Zebo did OK it attack, but nothing that really warrants his continuation at 15. Certainly nothing to suggest he is a better option than Gilroy.

And yea, McFadden on for Trimble again. In what world does that ever actually improve a team?

Henderson came on and wasn't used as a ball carrier. WHY?

Positives - I thought Earls and D'arcy were good. And I'm happy in the recruiting of Strauss and Bent.

profitius wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:"SA are there for the taking"

Well, brains, its turned out they were!

Rugby is a game of 80 minutes, not 40. I was overwhelmed by how often that particular comment was made, I thought it showed some lack of respect.

But surely SA have a better 15 than Kirchner? He was mediocre.

Ranking points don't worry me, by 2015 RWC I think we'll have a team able to compete and win against anyone.

Wayne Barnes was a bit of a clown during the match against both sides. Ireland came up against a bad first half performance. Murray was too slow around the ruck, D'Arcy unfortunately missed tackles. I think Tuohy should have played and Reddan. Positives Zebo looked good, Bent did well in the scrum when he came on, Chris Henry had a good game and so did Earls so there are positives to take from this too. Huge game v Argentina to come in a couple of weeks.

Well that was awful couldn't put away an average SA side, showed absolutely no attacking threat or guile, physicality dropped off considerably in 2nd half.



Not many positives, we need a backs coach and Kidney to go. Also that more or less vindicates any ROG haters anyway, a poor enough idea the execution of the kick was even worse.



Clive, Zebo did all he was asked to, kicked well, positioned himself well. A guy who is 3rd choice winger should not start at full back for us. POM won 2 turnovers but gave away a couple of penalties, so mixed bag.


Also Ryan was at fault for the try, schoolboy defending. Have these lads not heard of Pillar, Pillar post?



Am I the only one who thought Murray gave good service? Reddan looked rather ponderous to me, he is not the massive improvement over Murray that some believe.

Only saw the second half. That Ireland side couldn't have scored a try in a million years against a weakened Boks team. The SA defence was just too manly for the Irish. Go home there's nothing to see in Dublin.

This reminded me of SA's last game in wales. Crap first half and a good 20m asthe 2nd starts. This was an NB game for the development of this Bok team.

Add in missing players like bismarck, burger, Bekker, Habanna, smith, Fourie, du Preez, beast spies, goosen and steenkamp and HM is putting together a seriously good team / squad.

Once again etsebeth was immense and Strauss tireless. Them and Pienaar are becoming very important players for SA. Pienaar has too much talent not to become a Bok great.

Still feel our loose trio is a bit too heavy and slow. Misses a bit of speed, guile etc.

Would like to see de Jong given a go with taute moved to 15 for the next game.

Thomond wrote:Clive, Zebo did all he was asked to, kicked well, positioned himself well. A guy who is 3rd choice winger should not start at full back for us. POM won 2 turnovers but gave away a couple of penalties, so mixed bag.

Yea Thomand, Zebo was not the worst issue, not by a lontg way, but all the same, Earls is better at 15, and Cave/Bowe could play 13. We certainly wouldnt lose anything with that. Unless, is Kidney actually obeying Earls positional demands?

Also, re POM. turnovers are not the equal opposite of giving away penalties. SA gained 6 points I think from POM penalties. Not sure the turnovers he achieved, gained us any points directly.

POM won a penalty of one of those turnovers at least, might have won another one with it but I'm not sure.


POM was fnowhere near our biggest problem our lineout is.

On what planet did Earls have a good game lads? His distribution was horrific at times and there was a great microcosm of him in a ten minute spell where he made a great break, put his head down and didn't look for support and got isolated, conceding the penalty. He gave a diabolical pass to Bowe when the try line was beckoning. He is not an international 13. He did well enough in defence though.

We have to look at our attacking play. The midfield is just very poor and Kidney just keeps picking the same players.

Front row did well. McCarthy had a good game, Ryan did well enough but was entirely culpable for the try. The back row did well as a unit though POM lacks the physicality at this level to be an effective ball carrier. He did well at the breakdown as did Henry.

Zebo was 'promising', but his selection at 15 remains a mystery. Bowe looks like out only threat. I have no idea why Kidney picks Trimble if he isn't going to exploit what he does so well for Ulster.

englandglory4ever wrote:Only saw the second half. That Ireland side couldn't have scored a try in a million years against a weakened Boks team. The SA defence was just too manly for the Irish. Go home there's nothing to see in Dublin.

Thats the most silly/humorous comment I've ever read on 606v2

Murrays service was dreadful. Consistently late to the ruck, pause, pick up ball, step, swing arms back, send average pass.

A good scrum half will whip the ball out of bottom of ruck in one fluid movement before opposition defence is set. I have never seen Murray do this because he is not able to do it. His pass is very very poor. Must be a nightmare to play outside him.

GunsGerms wrote:Murrays service was dreadful. Consistently late to the ruck, pause, pick up ball, step, swing arms back, send average pass.

A good scrum half will whip the ball out of bottom of ruck in one fluid movement before opposition defence is set. I have never seen Murray do this because he is not able to do it. His pass is very very poor. Must be a nightmare to play outside him.

Murray kept trying to pass the ball to the players heads... His passing is awful.

Agree on murrays pass. It should be a pass that theflyhalf can run on to not stop or check the run. Really, really bad

Lads I'm going to be accused of bias here but did Reddan really improve the situation? He didn't in my opinion, a lot of ponderous decisions and his passing could be quicker.


Murray was okay in my view there is plenty of room for improvement from him as always

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:On what planet did Earls have a good game lads? His distribution was horrific at times and there was a great microcosm of him in a ten minute spell where he made a great break, put his head down and didn't look for support and got isolated, conceding the penalty. He gave a diabolical pass to Bowe when the try line was beckoning. He is not an international 13. He did well enough in defence though.

We have to look at our attacking play. The midfield is just very poor and Kidney just keeps picking the same players.

Front row did well. McCarthy had a good game, Ryan did well enough but was entirely culpable for the try. The back row did well as a unit though POM lacks the physicality at this level to be an effective ball carrier. He did well at the breakdown as did Henry.

Zebo was 'promising', but his selection at 15 remains a mystery. Bowe looks like out only threat. I have no idea why Kidney picks Trimble if he isn't going to exploit what he does so well for Ulster.

On Earls, I though he did as well as is to be expected considering it was his first game back. The pass to Bowe was an absolute shocker and should have gone to Zebo, instead he tried to force the play. On the penalty, I don't think you can blame him for that, he was right up against the touchline and there was no support, the players coming in behind him did a poor job of clearing.

Our backplay is once again terrible, we are really relying on one of Earls or Bowe to create something from nothing, and that is very difficult for them when they are on the back foot so often. Earls made three or four breaks today, but straight away was surrounded by 4 or 5 South Africans and no Irish players, because we failed to generate momentum.

6 loses in a row. Worst record in the Irelands professional history.

Any Munster fans still willing to defend Kidney?

Thomond wrote:Lads I'm going to be accused of bias here but did Reddan really improve the situation? He didn't in my opinion, a lot of ponderous decisions and his passing could be quicker.


Murray was okay in my view there is plenty of room for improvement from him as always

I thought Murray was decent, and Reddan was disappointing unfortunately.

Thomond wrote:Lads I'm going to be accused of bias here but did Reddan really improve the situation? He didn't in my opinion, a lot of ponderous decisions and his passing could be quicker.


Murray was okay in my view there is plenty of room for improvement from him as always

Reddan was quicker but didnt really improve the situation because we are so clueless in attack. We dont know what to do when we have the ball.

Henry, Zebo and McCarthy were very good. Healy, Strauss, Heaslip, Ryan, Earls, Bowe, Sexton and Ross all were decent. POM was good and bad, jury's still out. Trimble didn't have his best game but is still a very good player.

Until Murray learns to pass he is just an athletic guy pretending to be a rugby player.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:6 loses in a row. Worst record in the Irelands professional history.

Any Munster fans still willing to defend Kidney?

There are very few fans full stop who will defend Kidney. The IRFU are as much to blame in my opinion, getting rid of Kidney will not solve all of our problems though, a similar (not as bad) scenario with the FAI and Trappationi.

Thomond wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:6 loses in a row. Worst record in the Irelands professional history.

Any Munster fans still willing to defend Kidney?

There are very few fans full stop who will defend Kidney. The IRFU are as much to blame in my opinion, getting rid of Kidney will not solve all of our problems though, a similar (not as bad) scenario with the FAI and Trappationi.

He's gone by this time next year. We have to hope that the IRFU make a good appointment for the next coach.

Ferris and SOB were huge losses for the match today, we just didn't have anyone, besides Healy, who was capable of breaking through the bok defence.

Murray is a massive issue here. His box kicking i thought was by and large much better but his crabbing and passing is just dire. he doesnt have any hint of instinct. You can see him thinking as he is running with the ball.

A couple of his options were shocking. Gave one to McCarthy on his own (we got a penalty from it luckily) in the 1st half and Healy the same in the 2nd.

POM gave away at least three penalties and both he and Henry looked a bit underpowered at times. Ryan had a very poor game but his recent international standards. Heaslip was average. Trimble was poor. D'arcy is finished at this level.

I genuinely feela bit bad criticising the backs as what they were supposed to be doing i dont know. Im very unsure as to whether or not they know. The biggest issue with ireland is the coaching, end of story.

True coaching, tactics and Murray are consistently the problems.

Reddan doesn't suddenly make things drastically better. He is not George Gregan lads, he isn't much of an improvement over Murray, a slight one yes.


Anyone for Stringer lads..............

Thomond wrote:Reddan doesn't suddenly make things drastically better. He is not George Gregan lads, he isn't much of an improvement over Murray, a slight one yes.


Anyone for Stringer lads..............

I'm not saying Reddan is the George Best of rugby but he is significantly better as is Boss as is Marshall. So why persist with an amature at 9?

Well done SA. Good win and I never doubted you. As for Ireland; hold your head up high. A lot of new player being introduced. The Provinces are doing well, by February this team will be a more settled unit.

Yes Stringer is way better too.

Thomond wrote:Reddan doesn't suddenly make things drastically better. He is not George Gregan lads, he isn't much of an improvement over Murray, a slight one yes.


Anyone for Stringer lads..............

I think we have to stick with Murray just for his physicality. There is no point in having Reddan or stringer in the team because Ireland dont know how to attack.

Standulstermen wrote:Murray is a massive issue here. His box kicking i thought was by and large much better but his crabbing and passing is just dire. he doesnt have any hint of instinct. You can see him thinking as he is running with the ball.

A couple of his options were shocking. Gave one to McCarthy on his own (we got a penalty from it luckily) in the 1st half and Healy the same in the 2nd.

POM gave away at least three penalties and both he and Henry looked a bit underpowered at times. Ryan had a very poor game but his recent international standards. Heaslip was average. Trimble was poor. D'arcy is finished at this level.

I genuinely feela bit bad criticising the backs as what they were supposed to be doing i dont know. Im very unsure as to whether or not they know. The biggest issue with ireland is the coaching, end of story.

I really think people are being harsh on Murray, he was by no means perfect, but he was decent. He was quick to the rucks and only got dragged into one, for the most part he let his passes of quick.

POM only gave away two penalties according to the stats, and I felt he was very unlucky with one of them, considering SA were awarded a penalty minutes later doing the same thing. He should have come off about 15mins earlier for Henderson though.

Darcy must have missed more tackles in the match that the rest of the team combined. I really hate criticising him because he has been such a great player, but his continued inclusion is unfair on the other players around him as they are having to adapt their game due to him. Sexton and Earls were having to both try and be in position for their own tackles but were trying to cover Darcy as well, and that is just not workable at this level.

On Rog, well I've made my feelings clear on him before, hopefully he showed enough today for Kidney to wake up.

the 9/10/12/13 that is creating the most backs tries in ireland this season werent in the squad...

Thomond; you can't be serious with the Stringer suggestion? He is past it at provincial A level, nevermind international.

No not really, I think he could do a decent job for Munster though, Williams is absolute shoite.

Go bokke! Pushed the game. Like I said, very disappointed that Ireland did not acknowledge rememberance day. SA second side did just about enough.

sheephead wrote:Go bokke! Pushed the game. Like I said, very disappointed that Ireland did not acknowledge rememberance day. SA second side did just about enough.

Why would Ireland acknowledge british soldiers? Shouldnt that be left for the brits to do themselves?

er no not brits- brits and NI's!!!

There were a great number of Irish soldiers in World War I. I don't think we have to acknowledge it, I wouldn't be pushed either way, it would probably cause a stir if we did have it though.

Thomond wrote:No not really, I think he could do a decent job for Munster though, Williams is absolute shoite.

Yes, but you do have Cathal Sheridan who looked decent when I saw him, and according to my cousins in Clare, Brian Haugh is a serious prospect at 9, they are much better than sticking with Stringer. I agree that Williams is awful.

STOP!

Seriously, can mods nip this in the bud before it gets going.

Lets keep the discussion on the game please!

Thomond wrote:There were a great number of Irish soldiers in World War I. I don't think we have to acknowledge it, I wouldn't be pushed either way, it would probably cause a stir if we did have it though.

We do acknowledge those men in our own cermonies. We had a remembrance day for them a few months back I think.

"it would probably cause a stir if we did have it though."

well anyone causing a stir over it doesnt deserve to publish there thoughts end of story.. of coz a united ireland should aknowledged it!!

not only was it war that luckily didnt reach you(only because it stopped in our country but NI soliders are much part of the british army as other uk ones are!!

mystiroakey wrote:"it would probably cause a stir if we did have it though."

well anyone causing a stir over it doesnt deserve to publish there thoughts end of story.. of coz a united ireland should aknowledged it!!

not only was it war that luckily didnt reach you(only because it stopped in our country but NI soliders are much part of the british army as other uk ones are!!

I'm just saying it would , you may have heard the James McClean didn't wear one today and he is getting a lot of shoite over it.


Is rememberance day for both WW or the Army in general? NI wasn't a country for the first World War so if it's only honouring the one war it makes sense that there isn't anything special done in NI. I don't really have a problem with people wearing it, it's their own choice really

Sorry Val but i dont see it as being harsh. Picking a scrum half for physicality is just madly wrong and it saw us select O'Leary long long after he was any use. Murray i feel a bit sorry for. He has been thrown into international rugby and is learning the position at that level.

he may well come good but ireland cant afford to play him into the position.