Ireland vs South Africa pre-match talk and squad announcements.

First topic message reminder :

The much anticipated Autumn Iinternationals has arrived and South Africa will begin their three test tour against Ireland on Saturday at Landsdowne road. With a record of only one win in their last four test matches and 3 straight losses between 2004 and 2009, the Springboks would like to continue their resurgence against Ireland and emulate their two point victory of 2010.

But will they be up for an Ireland team who have been just about as disappointing as the Springboks were in 2012.

Ireland who boast wins over Scotland and Italy and a Hard earned draw over France at Stade de France earlier in the year has a disappointing return of 5 losses, 2 wins and 1 draw for the year.

South Africa has not fared much better, with 4 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws for the year.

Both teams will rue lost opportunities during the year where execution and specifically goal kicking have haunted the Springboks in Particular. Their goal kickin records stands at a miserly 55% for the year and will lose you more tests than win.

Ireland will be without their inspirational captain Brian O'Driscoll and South Africa after a long season will bewithout the services of Arguably the best Hooker in world rugby Bismarck du Plessis, the athletic Andries Bekker, talisman Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, Heinrich Brussow, Johan Goosen, Bryan Habana (yeah I know I am complaining a bit much here), Frans Steyn and Coenie Oosthuizen.

Will this end of season tour be a bridge too far for an injury riddled South African squad or will they be able to overcome an Irish team who hasn't convinced this year.

Likely SA matchday 22.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger (Marco Wentzel)
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Patrick Lambie
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaco Taute
14. JP Pietersen
15. Zane Kirchner

Bench
16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Schalk Brits
18. Pat Cilliers
19. Flip v d Merwe
20. Marcelle Coetzee
21. Franco v d Merwe
22. Jan Vermaak
23. Morne Steyn

I'll update if someone provides me a likely Irish matchday 22.

Leinster fan: no! I thought it would have been nice to allow SA to pay their respects. People from their nation died. The difference is your nation tried to exterminate the boys who retrned. Did you acknowledge 09/11 victims?

Seriously people. Start another thread if you care enough.

Our alleged big game players were poor today...also in a game this tight missed penalty kicks were the losing of the game....

I agree Clive this is a rugby forum for dear sake, lets get back to the Kidney bashing.

doubtless the fecker will ring the changes next week and leave Ulster shorthanded for our game in Italy. Probably planned it all from the start.

(That last bit was a joke btw)

Leinster fan: no! I thought it would have been nice to allow SA to pay their respects. People from their nation died. The difference is your nation tried to exterminate the boys who retrned. Did you acknowledge 09/11 victims?

why would it cause a stir?

sheephead wrote:Leinster fan: no! I thought it would have been nice to allow SA to pay their respects. People from their nation died. The difference is your nation tried to exterminate the boys who retrned. Did you acknowledge 09/11 victims?

oh dear another idiotic simplistic view being put forward. Most South Africans I know from the bok tradition wouldnt give a toss about ww1 and remembrance day. Might have been better to pay respects to the Boer war and the concentration camps set up. Or the Irish who went out their to fight with the Boer...

sheephead wrote:Leinster fan: no! I thought it would have been nice to allow SA to pay their respects. People from their nation died. The difference is your nation tried to exterminate the boys who retrned. Did you acknowledge 09/11 victims?

I dont know if we acknowledged 9/11 victims. Should we expect england to acknowledge irish soldiers in the 1916 rising when its 100 year anniversary arrives?

Leinster fan: no! I thought it would have been nice to allow SA to pay their respects. People from their nation died. The difference is your nation tried to exterminate the boys who retrned. Did you acknowledge 09/11 victims?

Some people will see it as a British thing (they probably aren't aware of the Irish connection). I would imagine it would cause more problems in the North but I could be wrong in that.



It's a person's choice if they want to wear it fine, the team shouldn't have to wear it. Sheephead, we tried to exterminate your boys in the revolution, well to say the Irish people are solely murderers is just completely moronic. In fact the British actually helped defeat themselves with the executuons after the rising.

I have a question if the oposition is down to 14 men and you have the ball reasonably quick about 30 metres out and a backline with good strike runners, what should you do?
Should you A. put the ball through the hands with potential for a try
or
B. Box kick the ball for an easy mark inside the 22 so letting off the pressure at a critical time
Please forward answers for reference of Connor Murray

sheephead wrote:Leinster fan: no! I thought it would have been nice to allow SA to pay their respects. People from their nation died. The difference is your nation tried to exterminate the boys who retrned. Did you acknowledge 09/11 victims?

They can pay their respects in South Africa...

How stupid are you in all fairness...

Standulstermen wrote:Sorry Val but i dont see it as being harsh. Picking a scrum half for physicality is just madly wrong and it saw us select O'Leary long long after he was any use. Murray i feel a bit sorry for. He has been thrown into international rugby and is learning the position at that level.

he may well come good but ireland cant afford to play him into the position.

Well, I'll be honest and say I though he was decent today, and that there was no improvement brought by Reddan.

I still think our biggest problem is at 12, there were a number of occasions today were Darcy chose to take contact instead of releasing the ball to Earls or Bowe who made runs off his shoulder.

I would be in favour of either Marshall or Sexton at 12 for the Argentina match with Earls at 13, and if Sexton is at 12, Jackson at 10.

And please ignore the idiot, stick to the rugby.

I genuinely hope we dont see ROG in the green again. Andrew trimble was lambasted for kicking the ball away against the US at the RWC because we were looking for a bonus point. ROG kicks the ball away when we are behind? i wonder will keith Wood et al focus on that in the same way they jumped on trimble.

This isnt a munster thing btw, its a ROG thing. He seems to be immune from criticism in the media. Annoys the feck outta me.

I agree ROG shouldnt be there now but dont try to defend TRimble who is just not good enough either.

Stand, I can understand the kick if there was a good bit of space in behind and wer either had a mismatch or an overlap. We had neither. The execution of the kick is what matters.


When ROG retires I hope they go to him in his house watching Sexton take a kick.

Sorry I forgot. Its murder unless your irish and blow up a chip shop for example. Im just think its bad taste not to acknowledge such a big event in history. Acknowledge 1916 rising? To you acknowledge the starvation order?

Standulstermen wrote:I genuinely hope we dont see ROG in the green again. Andrew trimble was lambasted for kicking the ball away against the US at the RWC because we were looking for a bonus point. ROG kicks the ball away when we are behind? i wonder will keith Wood et al focus on that in the same way they jumped on trimble.

This isnt a munster thing btw, its a ROG thing. He seems to be immune from criticism in the media. Annoys the feck outta me.

It's ridiculous, and the camera flashing to him everytime Sexton is lining up a shot at goal. On form he should be 5th choice, yet he is still sitting on the Irish bench. Ludicrous.

oh please stop now. ROG had nothing to do with this loss. The reason we lost are because Sexton missed two shots at goal. Some of our alleged better players were average and some of the players who came in were poor or not up to international standard.

He isn't at fault for the loss, I don't think anyone has said that (anyone who says that would need their head examined) but it was a ridiculous move and he should not be involved in the setup anymore.

I said this in the pub but its probably more relevant here;

My dad got us tickets for this game, surprised me with them. Very grateful about this but I had to say "if you get the chance to get tickets for the 6N, don't take them. There's plenty of other rugby to be played post-6N which offers way better value for money". I knew exactly what was going to happen before the match, and sure enough it happened.

We had a great view directly behind the posts and you can just see the effect not hiring a backs coach has- because all we do is run across the pitch and move the ball laterally. There are no dummy runners, there is no-one changing the point of attack, theres no-one giving the ball carrier the option of an offload. We don't have a backline- we only have individual backs. And our only plan is to give them the ball and hope they can create something from nothing- at no point were the South Africans anything less than completely comfortable. We get the ball in the 22 and I'm screaming for the drop goal because I know we will never, ever be able to engineer a line break.

I think the moment I felt like walking out was when they brought McFadden on for Trimble and left Earls at 13. The guy is without a doubt not a centre. 2nd minute we saw that, with him not knowing what to do with a basic 2-on-1 overlap. But without a backs coach, there's no-one in the set-up to point this out to him. And so we have a centre playing out of position on the wing to accommodate him...

I care passionately about this team, but there's no way we're going all the way to Dublin to watch us struggle with problems which haven't been addressed for years. We all know whats holding this team back- its a coaching issue, and we probably would have won with a competent backs coach. But nothing will be done about this. We'll just write off another season of international rugby.

I'll add this. We are all talking about individual players. Complete red herring. There's no structure or plan when the ball goes beyond 10. Zebo did well, but he's just another dutiful soldier on the Titanic. Doesn't matter how good the individual is if he's being asked to do it all himself. Earls did badly, but it's not his fault- he's a potentially outstanding winger who needs to be sat down and told to forget about playing outside centre. It's simply not a role he's suited to.

I did think a lot of the players who were brought in did well- Strauss, Zebo, Henry. It would be utterly craven to blame injuries. We lost because we had no idea how to engineer a linebreak, how to score points. The Boks gave us a surfeit of kickable penalties in the first half in a very disappointing display from them. As soon as they walked out after half time, we were never gonna win. Not because of the personnel- this is purely a coaching issue. The players who took to the field were good enough. All we need is a gameplan.

The one thing i will say is that irrespective of players the coaching is woeful and needs sorted before the 6N

Notch beat me to it. Notch the way you describe your feelings towards the trips to dublin is exactly the way i felt after wales in february. Not again while this coaching ticket is in situ

sheephead wrote:Sorry I forgot. Its murder unless your irish and blow up a chip shop for example. Im just think its bad taste not to acknowledge such a big event in history. Acknowledge 1916 rising? To you acknowledge the starvation order?

Sheephead, off topic discussions are in the off topic section, your political point of view is not welcome here.

Comment removed. Now that rugby is the equal of wendyball. Bilton: did SA do the same as previous years and pick European based players?

We respect our soldiers at another time Sheephead that has been outlined above.


Let's leave this politics stuff here.

Notch, I really think you're being harsh on Earls. And I agree with you on not wasting money on going to Landsdowne. It is a real pity because the players and the fans deserve better than what it happening. The economy isn't exactly great at the minute, and for those not from Dublin, it is a lot to ask when you included travel and the amount of time being taken up to see a team underperform. I think most of us can accept our team losing once we know they are performing to their best, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case for a while now. And the Argentina game is going to be a very dour affair.

Notch that is funny...

Earls did well and was one of our only threats along with Zebo and Bowe...Henry was completely underpowered and pretty useless to be honest as was Trimble. Sexton and Darcy were very poor even Sexton got run over as did Darcy.

DOD wrote:Notch that is funny...

Earls did well and was one of our only threats along with Zebo and Bowe...Henry was completely underpowered and pretty useless to be honest as was Trimble. Sexton and Darcy were very poor even Sexton got run over as did Darcy.

DOD, can you tell me at what points Trimble was useless? Because his lack of opportunity is not exactly something he has control over. If there are specific instances where he did or didnt do something, please feel free to remind us.

Poor in attack, taking the wrong options, took the ball up at times and never made ground....just very ordinary...

DOD wrote:Notch that is funny...

Earls did well and was one of our only threats along with Zebo and Bowe...Henry was completely underpowered and pretty useless to be honest as was Trimble. Sexton and Darcy were very poor even Sexton got run over as did Darcy.

FFS Henry did quite well today, just because someone has a go at a Munster player you don't have to have a go at their province. Trimble had one poor mistake and beside that did all that was asked off him, and even for that mistake you should be asking why was he having to cover the opposite wing, and where was his full back.

Sexton and D'Arcy were poor alright, Sexton just ran laterally all night. I'm not going to criticise Earls because I don't think its fair to talk about him until he's played in his right position. I mean, he gets into a 2 on 1 situation, its a simple case of drawing the man and releasing the winger. Instead he runs across Trimble and kicks it.

If he was where he belongs on the wing he has the pace and footwork to beat guys one on one and that is very valuable. He's just being used completely wrong.

Your first sentence is absurd, because there was no threat from anyone bar pick and gos by the forwards around the fringes. There was never any point in the entire match when the South African defence didn't have those guys completely covered. They were never sweating. You get our coaches in a room and ask them- "How do you break down an organised defence at this level?" and they won't be able to answer. The truth is, it doesn't matter who is out there, because we don't have a plan to win games. The players are there without a doubt. But the ideas aren't.

Fisrtly, thats as clear as being underwater with cling film over you eyes and forgetting your glasses.

I struggle to remember Trimble hardly getting the ball, for the above complaints to have happened very often in the duration of the match...

Also, big Ferg sure spiced it up didnt he?

He was completely underpowered and did nothing of note....nothing to do with having a go at a Munster player. Trimble was completely out of his class as he has been in international terms for quite some time..he gets a chance and does nothing except look ordinary...

Just a quick question boys, who was the prop (I think) who came on for Ireland and the commentator said had just come off the plane having been playing for Taranaki.

Whats he doing out there how he qualify etc.

He has an Irish Gran Bedfors. Name is Michael Bent. Did decent enough.

You're talking about Bent. Grandparents

Jesus lads, would you give up with this shoite. It's IS about individual players but only because our best idea is to hope someone makes something happen by themselves. Its not going to happen. Trimble, Earls- doesn't matter. They are not part of a functional backline. Don't make this about provincial Holly Wilaboobie for tat. Until the coaching situation changes it simply doesn't matter.

How on earth are our back three going to do anything in this backline? Whats the point in having a go at a player when the coaching of attack is sub-AIL standard?

DOD wrote:He was completely underpowered and did nothing of note....nothing to do with having a go at a Munster player. Trimble was completely out of his class as he has been in international terms for quite some time..he gets a chance and does nothing except look ordinary...

FFS, Trimble is one of our few players who isn't underpowered. There is a reason we put him in the 10 position of the SA lineout and it was because he was big enough to deal with JP who had ran over Sexton.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Just a quick question boys, who was the prop (I think) who came on for Ireland and the commentator said had just come off the plane having been playing for Taranaki.

Whats he doing out there how he qualify etc.

Ancestry.

Though I'm very concerned for Ireland that a guy who struggled to make the Hurricanes bench is good enough for the Irish one. He played 6 out of 15 games for the Canes this season, quite frankly that means he'd struggle to be one of the best 20 props in NZ.

Notch wrote:Sexton and D'Arcy were poor alright, Sexton just ran laterally all night. I'm not going to criticise Earls because I don't think its fair to talk about him until he's played in his right position. I mean, he gets into a 2 on 1 situation, its a simple case of drawing the man and releasing the winger. Instead he runs across Trimble and kicks it.

If he was where he belongs on the wing he has the pace and footwork to beat guys one on one and that is very valuable. He's just being used completely wrong.

Your first sentence is absurd, because there was no threat from anyone bar pick and gos by the forwards around the fringes. There was never any point in the entire match when the South African defence didn't have those guys completely covered. They were never sweating. You get our coaches in a room and ask them- "How do you break down an organised defence at this level?" and they won't be able to answer. The truth is, it doesn't matter who is out there, because we don't have a plan to win games. The players are there without a doubt. But the ideas aren't.

Oh god...in the meantime trimble is looking llike a fishout of water...at least Earls made ground on a number of occassions in the centre..you must have rerun the match about 10 times to find one issue with Earls FFS

The players are not good enough to be honest.

Notch Holly Willoughby would spice up our attack, mightn't make us good but it would be "sexy rugby"

How can you be so blind?

DOD wrote:he gets a chance and does nothing except look ordinary...

WHERE WAS THE FECKING CHANCE?

You are talking absolutute nonsense DOD. Do you think Ferg improved the team???

Ah sure look it was ROGs fault that everyone else made mistakes or looked not good enough. He was clearly giving the evil eye to everyone...

Am off to watch the rest of the Aus France match....good luck with the whingeing.

Jesus wept man.

Are you happy to accept mediocrity in your national side just so you can score some points about provincial players?

How can anyone have watched that and not seen how a lack of a backs coach is killing us is utterly beyond me.

Please, don't go. You havnt answered my question yet. Did McFadden improve the team? We will never know...

McFadden...no another dud....Gilroy or O'Dea would have been better...

Freddie Michalak is on fire for France lads....just set up a cracking try.