Dragons whats that all about then?

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Same money as the other regions but seem forever happy to be a second grade team.

I would probably go to watch that yeah. I suppose it would depend how it was set up and named. If they made a big deal of the East Wales thing, I'd definitely be keen. Plus Cardiff is often easier to get to than Newport for me.

I don't support Newport by the way. I'm a Cross Keys supporter in a club sense.

Kingshu wrote:What about you as well Risca Rev, as well as Griff

what if to make way for RGC1404, Cardiff Blues were merged with Dragons. Say 50% ownership each, creating a region like Ospreys with two main clubs?

Say Blue Dragons, games split between Cardiff and Newport, big games Mill Stad? Would you support this team or go back to following Newport instead?

Blue Dragons would lose those who want to watch Newport or Cardiff, but may create a region, and have a better chance of building a silverware contending team?

The major problem is that there is meant to be some ruling that a team needs to have Cardiff in their name in order to play at the Cardiff Arms Park, so that would probably force the name to the Cardiff Dragons. The team would then be made up of the Blues squad plus Lydiate and Faletau, and maybe one of two for LV= Cup duty too. SO basically it would be like closing the Dragons down, especially when you see how good a job the Blues are doing to spread the game around their region (and chanting KKAArrrDDifff at their home games etc).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Kingshu wrote:What about you as well Risca Rev, as well as Griff

what if to make way for RGC1404, Cardiff Blues were merged with Dragons. Say 50% ownership each, creating a region like Ospreys with two main clubs?

Say Blue Dragons, games split between Cardiff and Newport, big games Mill Stad? Would you support this team or go back to following Newport instead?

Blue Dragons would lose those who want to watch Newport or Cardiff, but may create a region, and have a better chance of building a silverware contending team?

The major problem is that there is meant to be some ruling that a team needs to have Cardiff in their name in order to play at the Cardiff Arms Park, so that would probably force the name to the Cardiff Dragons. The team would then be made up of the Blues squad plus Lydiate and Faletau, and maybe one of two for LV= Cup duty too. SO basically it would be like closing the Dragons down, especially when you see how good a job the Blues are doing to spread the game around their region (and chanting KKAArrrDDifff at their home games etc).

If that's so, then that would make things difficult for a lot of people. I support Cardiff City a little bit though, so it would be hypocritical of me not to attend over that.

Risca - I know I am being a bit negative, but from what I have seen three of the regions are trying their damnedest to get amongst their region, and to ensure all of the people of their region feel represented. Basically to move forward.

The Blues tried to move forward, but have taken a backward step (which has not really helped their performances like the fans claimed it would), and are starting to seem more like a city side than a region, and sadly I think that they would conitinue to do this no matter how many sides were merged with them.

The question is not whether people would support it. Mergers just don't work. The Scarlets don't have any major clubs in their region bar Llanelli, and the problems between Cardiff and Ponty, Ospreys and Neath, and the Dragons and Ebbw Vale are well documented. The WRU needed to implement a new tier free from the influence of the old clubs but they were too broke/spineless to do it and we are still seeing the effects ten years down the line. More mergers aren't the answer, a restructure of the pro game is.

The report does suggest that the WRU don't want to own the regions, which suggests they don't want to run th etop tier, so a level independent of th eclubs is not going to happen. You say the WRU were to spinless and broke, it appears even when they are finicially better off they still don't want to look into the option.

Easy to avoid the Cardiif in title at CAP, move Blue Dragons to CSS, sure the move back doesn't have fans returning in numbers. Ponty may even get a share as well, LV= and maybe a Pro 12 game against Zebre at Saris Road?

Kingshu, I was never in fear of us going down from 4 to 3 regions. I never thought that was on the cards, and it doesn't make sense to me. What I was fearful of was closing us to make room for another - keep 4, but put the 4th somewhere else.

To answer your question; if there was a South East Wales region that was equal in every way then yes I'd support it. It would have to be equal though. They'd have to bring the games to the region, as I'm happy for the current regions to do now (but they don't). It would be like Munster of old with their Cork and Limerick rotation.

However, I also agree with Stone that mergers rarely work. You'd still have the team based somewhere, so they'd be more Cardiff than anywhere in all likelihood. Then they'd find that the training facilities were better somewhere so would gravitate there more (Cardiff CCS for example). Then in time the part that's 'lesser' would be downgraded and snuffed out. Isn't something similar happening in Munster? Aren't they gradually playing less and less in Cork now?

Muster play 4 Pro 12 games in Musgrave park, Scarlets, Blues, Connacht and Edinburgh

To be fair Munster could never do it 50/50 as games at Thomond (26,000 capacity) must make more than Musgrave Park (10,000) but they are bring to get good supporters nubers in both.

For a Blue Dragons there would be as big a difference, so games could be closer to 50/50
CSS 26,828 put didn't fill it,
Rodney Parade 11,676 (plans to increase to 15,000)
Sardis Road 7,861

So untill they were getting crowds over 15000 on a regular basis, games could be 50/50 with LV= cup a pro 12 game or 2 and some Friendlies in Sardis Road.

Thing is Kingshu, I'm up for it in principle but for every one of me there would probably be 10 Blues and Dragons fans against it! It would cause tension, it would be a big rivalry thing that for a lot of people they simply wouldn't be able to overcome.

I know it's always hard to compare Ireland and Wales, but if the IRFU decided on 3 rugby provinces and merged MUnster and Leinster, would it automatically mean a bigger better end product, the sum of the two parts? Or would it tend to be something mainly supported by the fans who were situated closest to where the games were played? And a big of a fall out from fans who want to carry on supporting the old team?

Mergers don't work for everyone. It doesn't necessarily make a better thing, even though on paper it looks like it should.

Kingshu wrote:The report does suggest that the WRU don't want to own the regions, which suggests they don't want to run th etop tier, so a level independent of th eclubs is not going to happen. You say the WRU were to spinless and broke, it appears even when they are finicially better off they still don't want to look into the option.

Easy to avoid the Cardiif in title at CAP, move Blue Dragons to CSS, sure the move back doesn't have fans returning in numbers. Ponty may even get a share as well, LV= and maybe a Pro 12 game against Zebre at Saris Road?

I think this is just very typically WRU. They want to control every other aspect of the game in Wales from grassroots right up to semi-pro and interntational but don't want to get their hands dirty with the last bit, the final piece in the jigsaw. Yet, they're happy to force the top tier to make changes (clubs to regions) and to look over their shoulders all of the time. They're happy to pay for player release or to own 50% of one of the regions (Dragons). Happy to be in charge of coach development, but not of the coaching staff at the regions. Happy to call meetings to tell the regions to get their house in order, but don't want to get too involved.

They need to be clear in their involvement. They're either completely out of it, no meddling, let the regions be run as businesses which aren't leaned on by the 'big brother'; or they're fully in charge so that they can make decisions, force through changes that they want. So, bascially either an English or Irish model. But, in Wales we try to sit on the fence and go for an in between model where no one knows who's in charge, no one wants to take responsibility so that they're not carrying the can and are not responsible for finding solutions, and we just end up with a wishy washy structure.

Thats true Griff, We did have an under 20 Leinster/Ulster side defeating a Munster/Connacht combination for the opening of the Aviva, for a one off it was a bit of fun, but I'd hate to see it for more.

I'd hop with Newport and Cardiff being closer together, that some fans would go to both grounds, and a core would go RP and another core to CSS. hopefully both sets of fans would see it as our team, rather than the way Ponty fans see Blues as 'their' team.

However that said, would it work? I think something like this will happen however if RGC1404 are to be promoted to Pro 12.

Cant see WRU increasing funding to regions by 1/5th to allow them in, or IRFU/SRU/FIR wanting a Pro13.

So if WRU are serious about RGC1404 being in Pro 12, something has to give, Currently wwith Dragons and Blues struggling and being so close together, a merger looks the only reasonable option, the other option is RGC1404, are only ever supposed to reach Welsh prem level.

Kingshu wrote:

I'd hop with Newport and Cardiff being closer together, that some fans would go to both grounds, and a core would go RP and another core to CSS.

Good luck with that idea, but i'd stay well away from using CCS.
Too expensive to rent and Welsh rugby certainly does not want to give money to Cardiff City. It's also off the beaten track and Cardiff City will be using it most of the time.

i probably would go and watch a merged side, but only if it bore a name reflective of south east wales and not kardiffff....it annoys me that the blues fans shout cardiff now (when they are supposed to be a region encompassing ponty and rct) so if they did it in a new guise id be very f&^&ed off

GavinDragon wrote:i probably would go and watch a merged side, but only if it bore a name reflective of south east wales and not kardiffff....it annoys me that the blues fans shout cardiff now (when they are supposed to be a region encompassing ponty and rct) so if they did it in a new guise id be very f&^&ed off

Gavin,

I know the chanting at RP has changed a lot of late BUT the NEWPORT Gwent Dragons playing at NEWPORT in still predominently NEWPORT colours doesn't really reflect the whole of GWent now does it.

Just for record I am from Ebbw and support the Dragons

bedfordwelsh wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:i probably would go and watch a merged side, but only if it bore a name reflective of south east wales and not kardiffff....it annoys me that the blues fans shout cardiff now (when they are supposed to be a region encompassing ponty and rct) so if they did it in a new guise id be very f&^&ed off

Gavin,

I know the chanting at RP has changed a lot of late BUT the NEWPORT Gwent Dragons playing at NEWPORT in still predominently NEWPORT colours doesn't really reflect the whole of GWent now does it.

Just for record I am from Ebbw and support the Dragons

How are Black with red trim 'predominently NEWPORT colours' ?

Its more Cross Keys if anything

Yeah much more Crosskeys or Bedwas now. Unless you're counting the yellow dildo on the front of our shirts as amber?

There's a lot of nonsense being written on here. A lot of people bang on about how the Dragons don't involve the rest of Gwent. Newport IS in the name. The kit is nothing like a Newport kit. The fans haven't chanted Newport for about 6 seasons!!!

Every Dragons debate always goes down the same road and doesn't address the real issues. It ends up with people squabbling over issues that aren't the real problem. The kit isn't why we're not playing well. We wouldn't start winning if we were playing at Eugene Cross or Pandy Park. The problem is the board.

The board have always had coaches that have got the most out of the players until now. Ruddock especially and Turner punched above their weight and the region had relative success and decent crowds. Now, like all the regions we have seen a lot of key players depart and the Dragons have always had the most thread-bare squad so now we're really struggling.

Everything about the regions is on the decline. Look at the 4 coaches. Easterby,, Edwards, Tandy and Phil Davies. Apart from Davies, they're all rookies. They're all cheap options.

On the field, The Dragons have no leadership or guidance. There's no experience. We have lost the likes of Willis and Burns (retired) and Brew, Charteris and Martyn Thomas and Tovey. We have no top players to help guide the kids. How important was Stephen Jones to Priestland's emergence? Lydiate and Faletau will depart soon and then you really do ask questions of exactly what sort of team we'll have. Young Jack Dixon has been training with Wales and looks to be a star of the future, but what sort of future will there be in Gwent?

bedford i totally agree with you, many of posts on this issue i have called for newport to be dropped from the name and 3-4 games to be played in EXP. I work in ebbw vale and live in cardiff and its shocking the number of ospreys jerseys you see up in Blaenau Gwent. Crikey i even know people as clost to newport as cwmcarn who support the o's over the dragons

Good post

oh and for the record im newport born and bred

We knows it clart

manofgwent wrote:The board have always had coaches that have got the most out of the players until now. Ruddock especially and Turner punched above their weight.

Exactly right. I'm not asking for a big-name coach, all I want is a someone who will get the best out of the players we have. Darren Edwards isn't doing that.

There's still plenty of rugby to be played this season, but if things continue as they are, I'm thinking of writing a letter to the Dragons saying that I won't be buying a season ticket again as long as Darren Edwards is there. The only problem is I'm not confident that whoever they bring in to replace him would be any better.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

manofgwent wrote:The board have always had coaches that have got the most out of the players until now. Ruddock especially and Turner punched above their weight.

Exactly right. I'm not asking for a big-name coach, all I want is a someone who will get the best out of the players we have. Darren Edwards isn't doing that.

There's still plenty of rugby to be played this season, but if things continue as they are, I'm thinking of writing a letter to the Dragons saying that I won't be buying a season ticket again as long as Darren Edwards is there. The only problem is I'm not confident that whoever they bring in to replace him would be any better.

Turner received the exact same accusations as Darren Edwards. Edwards then hailed the redeemer, now Edwards is useless and Turner was a legend.

Seriously you guys should read back to your posts the last time dragons changed coach.

maestegmafia wrote:Turner received the exact same accusations as Darren Edwards.

Was that when he won coach of the season?

From that thread, Maes:

'There's probably a bit of a "honeymoon" period going on at the moment so it will be interesting to see what they can do once the effect of having a new coach wears off.'

The other interesting thing looking back at these threads is how the posting names have changed..!

Maesteg. Turner did do a lot of good things, but I thought that when he left it felt the right decision. I think that the region needed a shake-up and Edwards came in and really seemed to grab the bull by the horns and we finished the 2011 season very strongly. Since then we've gone backwards and are currently a laughing stock that I honestly don't know when our next win will come!!

Its tough at the Dragons, the main issue as I see it though is not coaching but the support of the players behind the scenes.

A family friend who was a physio at Llandarcy, now works for the WRU. She tells me that when she has been to the Dragons as part of the WRU physios checking the work and facilities at the the regions, that the Dragons were a long way behind the other three regions in basics facilities like Gyms, Treatments for injuries.

I don't know much about the Dragons other than on the pitch and i was quite surprised to here as such.

Apparently they are working on making improvements all the time...

I've sat and watched the Dragons train, when I've picked up tickets. You could go most mornings and see the backs going through their paces on the cabbage patch(the small patch of grass in front of the club house). My wife was with me once and couldn't believe that that is where they train. Seeing Welsh internationals running around on a boggy bit of grass. Our facilities doesn't help with recruitment, but this has nothing to do with a performance as bad as the one in Glasgow.

A big problem is not so much poor recruitment, but more so, not identifying weaknesses and recruiting in those areas. I think Dan Evans and Prydie have been good signings, but they weren't really problem areas. We regularly have Will Harries sat on the bench!! The problem is the front 5. It's the worst in europe. We have not set-piece and no structure to build on. We have a great back-row, but we're always on the back foot. The backs therefore don't see any ball. We could have the Cross Keys back-line, as long as they can tackle, they couldn't do any worse, as the likes of Chavhanga don't get any ball.

We have no leadership. We're a team of kids and players so over the hill, fans of other regions must laugh when they see the likes of Sidoli, Adam jones and steve jones running out! We wont do anything unless we recruit well. I think we could slip below Zebre as I don't see us winning away and will only win a few at home. How have we not recruited at hooker??? Steve Jones was 3rd choice 2 years ago and now he's a starter as Willis and Burns haven't been replace!

The fans just want to see a bit of fight and a bit of bite. The players aren't giving it and the coach doesnt sound like he's capable of giving them the rocketing they desperately need. We need a disciplinarian to kick them up the arse. We're not a great side, but we're going down without a fight at the moment!

I agree about facilities, but I have to say that I think it does make a difference in terms of preparation, both mentally and physically. I'm from a sports science (studying and teaching) background and I don't think the effect of the poor facilities should be underplayed. As I've posted elsewhere I've been in the gym at RP. It is on the left just before the entrance to the old Argus Terrace, now the new club shop. It is literally a corrugated iron roofed barn with old weights and tatty benches. Spit and sawdust may be good for getting back to basics, but in terms of keeping up with other athletes and having that competitive edge; well you need to be at the cutting edge.

I can confirm the use of the grass in front of the clubhouse. It's where they used to put the family village on match day. It is just a boggy strip of grass. I've also seen them train at the council pitches in Caerleon. More recently they've trained on the grass and in the gym at the new Bettws high school. I think they may be at the new Hartridge high school now.

The point is though that psychologically if the players feel that their training environment is sub standard then they're likely to feel less prepared than their opponents. That initial doubt becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. They start attributing failure to the lack of facilities, the poor training environment, etc. We've heard this from players who have left. When in that situation it is difficult to improve motivation as the players are focusing on things that the coaches can't control - i.e. new facilities. Players are probably feeling that their region doesn’t care too, that they can't be bothered to get the training environment right. This will affect motivation too. They probably don't feel like the region is investing in them and in return they may not feel like giving much back.

On the physical side - it goes without saying that the Dragons will be less well prepared training on a boggy patch, moving round schools to train, doing power and resistance training in a cramped room, compared with someone like the scarlets with 3g indoor training that's amazing whatever the weather, a new gym with the latest equipment, etc. They (at the Scarlets) probably feel like they've been invested in and want to give something back. They are made to feel special. They probably feel ‘cutting edge’. This does wonders for the self confidence.

Some will say that this is boll*x, that rugby players shouldn't be like the pampered stars we see in other sports. But rugby has changed. Players are now officially athletes and as such should be treated as athletes and given the best environment within which to reach full potential. The extra 1% that can make all the difference. The Dragons need to invest in the little things that get those 1% improvements, that make the players look forward to training. However, the Dragons set up from a players point of view (and management point of view, some might say) is still in the amateur days. If they want to improve performances and attract some players then give the 'athletes' what they want and need - the right environment to reach full potential and to nurture talent.

Just to add that this is one of the things that's led to the improvements in the national team in recent times. Martyn Williams alluded to it on Scrum V last week. Wales have taken a 'no stone left unturned' approach to player preparation. A la Clive Woodward. Focus on the tiny things, get them right, and the little 1%s will add up to 5 or 10 percent improvement. And that is enough to project a team from poor to competitive, or competitive to decent. Wales has the facilities at the Vale of Glamorgan, it invests (money) in going away to top secret scientific venues in Poland, they try different things like wrestling, yoga and ballet (!) just for those 1% gains. That's why I believe that the WRU owning/running all 4 regions would be of benefit, money permitting. We can standardise the quality of facilities, or at least the access to them; we can take everyone to Spala (those in the national team and those with potential); we can send the conditioning coaches out to work on the same things across the board. Then we might be able to drag the standards up in those regions that are flagging.

There has to be better training facitities available to Dragons,
I know this looks like boosting but

Antrim GAA is building a Centre of Excellence,
a 26 acre site £8million Centre with 3 natural pitches, two 3g pitches, Centre of Excellence building including sports hall, permanent changing facilities, meeting rooms, kitchen/dining area, administrative offices for the County Board, physiotherapy facilities and gym
The centrepiece of the current proposal is the provision of three sand-based grass pitches, one full size 3G pitch, 'third generation' juvenile pitches, a warm up area and a hurling wall. All pitches will be floodlit. The provision of these pitches will help address the shortage identified by the County Board for their teams and development squads and by the council in regard to playing pitches generally.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/antrim-gaa-get-ball-rolling-on-centre-of-excellence-14055767.html#ixzz2BjlL3htS

Tyrone GAA are building a 40 acre, £6.7m facility Tyrone GAA Centre of Excellence , five fully-floodlit grass pitches; a floodlit ‘3G’ pitch; a floodlit ‘3G’ drills area

These are just 2 of the 9 Counties in Ulster, but if they can, as amature organisations, raise the funds, apply for grants etc etc to build these, surley Dragons can come up with a similar plan. Think Ulster rugby would be silly not to look to use these at times, but part of there planing was because young players were turning to football and Rugby and to readdress that.

Well, the Welsh Football academy is opening in Newport sometime soon so maybe they'll get to use their facilities!

The Dragons have a centre of excellance/training base currently under construction on the site of the old ystrad mynach hospital,not sure on completion date.I thought the gym at RP was the new corrugated building at the end of the bisley stand & was fitted out by the players & coaches themselves - happy to be told differently

I used to see a few of the Dragons players at the old Fitness First gym in Newport - but that was back in the days of Rhodri Gomer-Davies.

dragon999 wrote:The Dragons have a centre of excellance/training base currently under construction on the site of the old ystrad mynach hospital,not sure on completion date.I thought the gym at RP was the new corrugated building at the end of the bisley stand & was fitted out by the players & coaches themselves - happy to be told differently

I say again

dragon999 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:The Dragons have a centre of excellance/training base currently under construction on the site of the old ystrad mynach hospital,not sure on completion date.I thought the gym at RP was the new corrugated building at the end of the bisley stand & was fitted out by the players & coaches themselves - happy to be told differently

I say again

What do you mean 'I say again'?

You could be right about a new gym at RP. I thought they were still in the old one opposite the bowls pitch. They were still there last season.

I said i say again as people on her don't actually seem to know any facts about the Dragons & the facilities they have/are having & i find it a tad frustrating when i read such mis information/lack of basic knowledge.
The gym is situated at the end of the new bisley as i said

I'm trying to work here, so I'll answer you when I have a chance. I imagine that's the same for others on here. Be patient.

In terms of facilities, that's great that they've got a new gym at RP. How well equipped is it? Can you describe the set up to me? Do they have indoor 3G to do training when it's wet?

In terms of the Ystrad Mynach base, you can't class that as 'facilities they have/are having'. If they can't use it now then it can be of no benefit to the current squad, which is what we're discussing. Great for the future though. A quick google search says that demolition has just started in October 2012 - hopefully it won't take too long. Any idea who is funding it?

Just to clarify - Dragons will be using the new facility at Ystrad presumably for a rental amount not having the facility built - state of the art facilities etc etc.Accept that those facilties are not yet available to them yet.
All i know about the new gym at RP is where it is & the fact that the coaches & players ( i believe ) paid part of the cost of equiping it - What that equipment is,i have no idea sorry.

I've no doubt that poor facilities aren't helping the Dragons and the facilities we currently have are not suitable for a professional sports team. I'm still more concerned with what's happening with the coaches and the team. We currently aren't competitive. We don't seem to have a game plan. As I said earlier, Dragons fans won't accept players not giving their all. Three of the tries we gave away in Glasgow were a joke, with the last, a Dragons scrum on halfway. Our scrum was demolished, Glasgow won our scrummage ball, chipped through and gathered after laughable defending. If the likes of Harries, Adam Hughes, Lydiate, Faletau and Prydie get offers from other teams, they'd be mad not to leave, making the Dragons even weaker still.

Most worrying for me is how much I think attendances could still fall. The LV Cup doesn't really get you too excited, we're home to Northampton's no doubt 2nd string, we play Connacht in the Rabies and Mogliano in the Amlin. We have no home pee-Christmas game, we're away Boxing day, again!!! (For some reason the annual boxing day game against the Blues is away for the 2nd year running, when it's always been played at RP every other year). This will hit the region in the pocket. At the Ulster game I heard fans moaning and some saying they wouldn't rush back. It's looking grim all-round.

Well, if you genuinely want an answer to this question, or just want to point out to the man in charge how a name change/training barn/two fat props from Cross Keys are the panacea for all the region's ills, now's your chance. The Dragons chief exec Chris Brown is hosting an informal supporters Q an' A session at Dave Parade on Tuesday 13th November h'apparently.