ATP WORLD TOUR FINALS- LIVE MATCH THREAD

[User 774433]

First topic message reminder :

WIll be updated each day with new schedule:
THE FINALE:

Evening: 8:00 PM Start
NOVAK DJOKOVIC (1) vs ROGER FEDERER (2)


Group standings:
Group A:
Djokovic- 3-0
Murray- 2-1
Berdych- 1-2
Tsonga- 0-3

Group B:
Federer- 2-0
Ferrer- 1-1
Del Potro- 1-1
Tipsarevic- 0-2

Semis:
Djokovic bt Del Potro
Federer bt Murray

[User 774433]

I don't get this.

[User 774433]

Why does Tipsy winning mean JDMP climbs above Roger?

[laverfan]

3) Regardless of score, if J. DEL POTRO defeats R. FEDERER and J. TIPSAREVIC defeats D. FERRER, then J. DEL POTRO wins the group and R. FEDERER qualifies 2nd.

-> Djokovic

6) If J. DEL POTRO defeats R. FEDERER in 3 sets and D. FERRER defeats J. TIPSAREVIC in 2 sets, then R. FEDERER wins the group and J. DEL POTRO qualifies 2nd.

-> Murray

7) If J. DEL POTRO defeats R. FEDERER in 3 sets and D. FERRER defeats J. TIPSAREVIC in 3 sets, then R. FEDERER wins the group and J. DEL POTRO qualifies 2nd.

-> Murray

[The Special Juan]

Why does Tipsy winning mean JDMP climbs above Roger?

No idea, Sue keeps saying it but with no explanation.

[User 774433]

[Haddie-nuff]

Well whatever well done Delpo..you played well.
I put my money on Ferrer... if he wins the first set Tipsy will retire anyway

[CAS]

42 unforced errors just isn't good enough, shank after shank as well, it was hard to watch

[laverfan]

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Finale%20SF%20Qualifications.aspx

Please see semi-final qualification scenarios.

[barrystar]

If Tipsarevic beats Ferrer then Ferrer then Fed and Del boy have 2 wins each and the tie breaker between two players is Del boy's victory over Fed.

If Ferrer wins there are three guys on two wins, and what decides the top of the group is w/l in sets, and Fed is top with 5-2, then Del boy with 5-3 and Ferrer cannot do better than 4-3.

[The Special Juan]

Thanks LF.

Semi-final Qualifying Procedure

At the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, the final standings of each group shall be determined by the first of the following methods that apply:

a) Greatest number of wins;

b) Greatest number of matches played;
Comment: 2-1 won-loss record beats a 2-0 won-loss record; a 1-2 record beats a 1-0 record.

c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied,

d) If three (3) players are tied, then:

i) If three (3) players each have one (1) win, a player having played less than all three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to the single elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the two (2) players tied with 1-2 records; or
ii) Highest percentage of sets won; or
iii) Highest percentage of games won; or
iv) The player positions on the South African Airways ATP Rankings as of the Monday after the last ATP World Tour tournament of the calendar year.
v) If (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) produce one (1) superior player (first place), or one (1) inferior player (third place), and the two (2) remaining players are tied, the tie between those two (2) players shall be broken by head-to-head record.

Comment 1: 1 player has 3 wins and the other 3 players have 1 win. Of the 3 players with 1 win, 1 player has only played in 2 matches while the other 2 players have played 3 matches. The player who has only played 2 matches is eliminated and then the 2 remaining players revert back to head-to-head results with the winner of their match advancing to the semi-finals.

Comment 2: 1 player has 3 wins and the other 3 players have 1 win and they all have played 3 matches. The tie-break for % of sets won has 1 player with a better % than the other two. This player advances to the semi-final round.

Comment 3: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, they are ordered by their % of sets won. This produces a 1, 2 & 3 order and the players finishing 1 and 2 move to the semi-final round and the player finishing 3 in % of sets won is eliminated. The player with the best % of sets won is the winner of the group.

Comment 4: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 1 player’s sets won-loss is 5-2 for 71.43%; the other 2 players both have a 4-3 record in sets for 57.14%. In this case there is 1 superior player (71.43%) and the remaining 2 players are tied; it now reverts to the head to head result of the 2 remaining players with the winning player advancing as group runner-up.

Comment 5: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, 2 have set won-loss records of 5-3 (62.5%) while the other player is 4-3 (57.14%). In this case we have 1 inferior player (57.14%) and he is eliminated. The remaining two players both advance to the semi-finals with the winner of their head-to-head match advancing as the group winner.

Comment 6: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, all have played 3 matches and all 3 have set won-loss records of 5-4 (55.56%). In this case we move to % of games won. The % of games won breaks down like this: 44-40 for 52.38%, 45-43 for 51.14% and 44-43 for 50.57%. This produces a 1, 2 and 3 order of the group and the number 1 player in % of games won is the group winner while the player finishing 2nd in % of games won advances to the semi-finals as the group runner-up. The player with the 3rd best % of games won is eliminated.


I already have a headache so I'm not reading that!!

[lags72]

By way of a break from the Maths ........

Perhaps this long hard season (with Olympics of course), more than any other, has finally left Federer feeling his age. He looked positively jaded - even after his comeback in the 2nd. Painful to watch at times as CAS says. When Fed's timing goes AWOL it really goes, and it just happened to coincide with a day when JMDP was on song

One RR defeat can be written off, but the implications are more long-term. That's two successive losses, to the same guy, and at his two best indoor events : Basle and WTF.

For most of 2012 Fed had Delpo's number with six wins on the bounce. But that already seems a long time ago, and there's no doubting who will have more confidence next time they meet. I think Delpo will be as much a threat to Fed in 2013 as any of the top boys.

Henman was asked what areas of his game Delpo needs to improve to climb further : My view (FWIW !) is that there were few serious weaknesses on show today, so it's more about consistency from week to week, month to month

Great tennis from Delpo in the decider, and pretty much throughout the match

[The Special Juan]

Really Roger?

Federer: I was thinking more about David than about (the semis vs) Andy & Novak; more disappointed for him than I am about losing today

[laverfan]

A. Ferrer winning in 3 sets (2-1).

Comment 3: 3 players have 2 wins and the other player has 0 wins. The player with 0 wins is eliminated. Of the 3 players with 2 wins, they are ordered by their % of sets won. This produces a 1, 2 & 3 order and the players finishing 1 and 2 move to the semi-final round and the player finishing 3 in % of sets won is eliminated. The player with the best % of sets won is the winner of the group.

Eliminates Tipsy. Ferrer, Federer, DelPo are tied at 2-1, and sets won are Federer (5-2), Del Potro (5-3), Ferrer (4-4) implies Federer, Del Potro order.

B. Ferrer winning in 2 sets (2-0)...

Eliminates Tipsy. Ferrer, Federer, DelPo are tied at 2-1, and sets won are Federer (5-2), Del Potro (5-3), Ferrer (4-3) implies Federer, Del Potro order.

C. Tipsy wins ...

invokes... c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied

Eliminates Ferrer and Tipsy....

Federer and Del Potro both have 2-1 wins. The H2H between Del Potro-Federer is (1-0), so Del Potro wins the group and Federer is second.

[lydian]

Great analysis guys...hoping Tipsy plays to his normal level after an "off" week. I think he has a strong chance if Janko feels better today. There's quite a lot on this match given the potential Fed match ups in the semis.

[The Special Juan]

Thanks LF. Now I understand how Ferrer winning dictates the order they finish in. DelPo beat Fed, Fed beat Ferrer and Ferrer beat DelPo, therefore it moves onto sets won/lost.

[laverfan]

My preference is for Tipsy to win (but it is a tall order - literally and figuratively), so Federer plays Djokovic who he can handle better than Murray.

Murray, given Federer's performance today, will just beat him 6-1, 6-1 by pulverising his BH.

[The Special Juan]

Hold up LF, Tipsy leads 4-1 with 2 breaks in the 1st set......

[FedsFan]

I agree with CAS/Lags.

42 U/E is just shocking and does not win matches vs the top guys. As you say, the long season has finally caught up with him and by the looks of it Ferrer too as he is 4-0 down. Perhaps in his case its cos he knows he is out now.

Fed has not been playing well since the USO. He has been doing enough just to get by. I think Fed put so much into the first six months of the year he has got nothing left in the tank.

During the BBC broadcast it was mentioned that Murray may not want to face Fed. Castle said after Murray hammered Fed in London why wouldn't he want to face Fed! Slightly blinkered view there as I think that 4 and a half hour Semi Fed had knocked the stuffing out of him cos at 31 you cannot recover from long matches so quickly. I have to say Murray played well but Fed was capable of much more that day.

[Guest]

Given a choice between Federer (regardless of how bad he is playing) and Del-po, I'm sure Murray would prefer the latter.

[The Special Juan]

Difficult one. Do I want Murray to play the GOAT who doesn't appear to be in great form but could come out and play lights-out tennis tomorrow or the guy who he has a fantastic record against but is in arguably the form of his life and is on a high after today? If it was Novak you'd fancy him to gub either of them in straight sets.

[FedsFan]

Given a choice between Federer (regardless of how bad he is playing) and Del-po, I'm sure Murray would prefer the latter.

You think? I think Murray has the confidence now to play anyone. I think he sees Fed as an easy target with consecutive wins in their most recent meetings. Murray is in his prime as is Djoko/Del Potro. I don't think either should have any reservations about playing Federer these days.

[The Special Juan]

Murray v Federer it is then.....

[Silver]

I think Murray would rather play JMDP, his game matches up better, especially on this court. Even if Federer's playing atrociously, he's still very difficult to get off court quickly, and he drains players mentally as well as physically. And as badly as he's played, it's now knockout tennis and Federer's not going to make it easy.

Tough one to call. Federer's record is not as important because the court's playing slower, but obviously he could show up and give Murray no chance. On the other hand, their last two matches speak for themselves. I think it'll go to 3 (bold, I know ), not sure on the winner.

And well done to Ferrer on a truly wonderful season - hats off to him!

[The Special Juan]

MarNie v Granollers and whoever (Lopez?) at 12 tomorrow.

[Guest]

Given a choice between Federer (regardless of how bad he is playing) and Del-po, I'm sure Murray would prefer the latter.

You think? I think Murray has the confidence now to play anyone. I think he sees Fed as an easy target with consecutive wins in their most recent meetings. Murray is in his prime as is Djoko/Del Potro. I don't think either should have any reservations about playing Federer these days.

What short memories people have.

It was just a few months ago that Federer reduced Murray to tears on CC.

You really think Murray sees Federer as an easy target on the back of two wins? That's just nonsense and typical pessimistic Federer fan talk wherein any/every defeat suddenly means Federer is done, the game has moved on, blah blah blah. Whether or not Murray has reservations about playing Federer is besides the point; Murray knows that ANY match against Federer is a big match and therefore he will be 100% focused. He most certainly wont be thinking of him as an 'easy target'. Federer has been woeful since Cincinnatti but that doesn't mean that his game has suddenly evaporated. He can still bring it, even if he doesn't do it tomorrow, and Murray, being the professional that he is, knows this. If top level Federer shows up it's a whole new level to anything JMDP (with all due respect) can produce.



emancipator

[The Special Juan]

Djokovic v. Delpo in the afternoon; Murray v. The Fed in the evening tomorrow

[lydian]

Tipsy and JoW both earn at least $100,000 without winning a match.
Can't be bad!

[Silver]

Not bad work if you can get it, lydian! Especially when it'll probably be followed by sipping Margaritas on a remote island somewhere

Ahh they've earned it, it's a long old season. Well done chaps! Looking forward to viewing tomorrow.

[laverfan]

If top level Federer shows up it's a whole new level to anything JMDP (with all due respect) can produce.

No one has said Federer should retire, Emanci, but 42 UEs was a bad day at the office. If it is the turn of good days Saturday and Sunday, it can be interesting.

If Federer plays the way he played Nadal last year and comes out all aggressive, Murray may not have much to say in the outcome of their encounter.

More than likely, Federer will play kamikaze Tennis for the next two matches and try to keep his title. IMVHO, he is quite capable, even at 31.

[lydian]

Yep, the $100k is pocket change for holding Gangnam-style dancing parties on said remote island.

Dancing like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hvjn1ujn5M

[FedsFan]

Given a choice between Federer (regardless of how bad he is playing) and Del-po, I'm sure Murray would prefer the latter.

You think? I think Murray has the confidence now to play anyone. I think he sees Fed as an easy target with consecutive wins in their most recent meetings. Murray is in his prime as is Djoko/Del Potro. I don't think either should have any reservations about playing Federer these days.

What short memories people have.

It was just a few months ago that Federer reduced Murray to tears on CC.

You really think Murray sees Federer as an easy target on the back of two wins? That's just nonsense and typical pessimistic Federer fan talk wherein any/every defeat suddenly means Federer is done, the game has moved on, blah blah blah. Whether or not Murray has reservations about playing Federer is besides the point; Murray knows that ANY match against Federer is a big match and therefore he will be 100% focused. He most certainly wont be thinking of him as an 'easy target'. Federer has been woeful since Cincinnatti but that doesn't mean that his game has suddenly evaporated. He can still bring it, even if he doesn't do it tomorrow, and Murray, being the professional that he is, knows this. If top level Federer shows up it's a whole new level to anything JMDP (with all due respect) can produce.



emancipator

It is NOT pessimistic Federer fan talk. Have you watched Federer the last 3 matches? Vs Tipsy he was okay but he struggled against Ferrer with so many errors and today again a ton of errors. The guy is not playing to a level he was in the Summer around Wimbledon when he beat Murray. His game was better then than it is now. Anyone can see that. Murray IS full of confidence as Lendl has fixed all those demons in his head. The guy has hit top form and does not let the occasion overwhelm him anymore as he did before. Fed's serve let him down today and against a top player who is also a good returner, when you don't get cheap points and get involved in long rallies it does not help.

I am not saying Federer is finished because he lost a match I am just saying he looks drained and is playing like a man on an empty tank. Its the end of a long great season for him and he's feeling the effects. Murray in 2.

[Guest]

You said,

' I think he sees Fed as an easy target with consecutive wins in their most recent meetings'

Which is clearly patent nonsense. Murray does not see Federer as an easy target. I agree with you that Fed is playing rubbish, but a few bad performances doesn't make him an easy target in Murray's mind. On the other hand if you'd simply said, I think at this stage of the season, and given Federer's recent form, I think he is an easy target for Murray, then that's a perfectly reasonable position and one which may not be too far from the truth.

As for tomorrow's prediction, I agree with you, Murray in 2, but I hold out hope that Roger can revive some that special talent. I'm sure Murray's hoping for the opposite.



emancipator

[lydian]

It's a slow court this year, he has smaller chance of winning vs Murray and Djokovic.

[FedsFan]

You said,

' I think he sees Fed as an easy target with consecutive wins in their most recent meetings'

Which is clearly patent nonsense. Murray does not see Federer as an easy target. I agree with you that Fed is playing rubbish, but a few bad performances doesn't make him an easy target in Murray's mind. On the other hand if you'd simply said, I think at this stage of the season, and given Federer's recent form, I think he is an easy target for Murray, then that's a perfectly reasonable position and one which may not be too far from the truth.

As for tomorrow's prediction, I agree with you, Murray in 2, but I hold out hope that Roger can revive some that special talent. I'm sure Murray's hoping for the opposite.



emancipator

Okay, fair enough. Perhaps I could have worded that better! Yes, Fed is playing rubbish at the moment but it was not until recently he overturned a negative h2h with Murray only to get back to negative. Clearly Murray has a game which Federer does not necessarily find easy. I believe Murray has renewed confidence. I doubt he is nervous about tomorrow's clash. Maybe in the new season when Fed is recharged but for tomorrow's match, I think Murray will be fairly content. I think his team has a game plan which works when playing Fed whereas JMDP is coming into form at the right time and therefore less predictable which is more dangerous.

[Guest]

Not much to disagree with there.

I'm not very optimistic about his chances tomorrow either.

This is the worst he's played all year.

[banbrotam]

It's a slow court this year, he has smaller chance of winning vs Murray and Djokovic.

The best analysis of the most recent comments

Fed's best matches this year, have been on the faster courts, where instinct takes over and Nole (in particular) doesn't have time to keep forcing rallies.

We've now got to the stage where it's an average Murray or Nole only, that get beaten by him on such surfaces. It also needs a special Fed performance (last two sets at Wimbledon) to beat them

(No great disgrace and certainly not disrespectful - I wouldn't be surprised to see him come out of the gates firing tommorow and force a subdued performance out of Murray, like two years ago)

Conversley get him on clay where he has more time to correct his inconsistent (for him) backhand, then he's a treat again

i.e. he needs fast hard courts and clay which means, not half of the current calendar.

[FedsFan]

Can he come out all guns blazing and out of the blocks so quick that he blitzes Murray in the first set? If he does maybe then Murray might be a little flustered . As I said above he is just not playing well enough of late. His serve has always won him free points when he has been facing break points. It has also been why he has a great t/b record in his career. Serving very average as he has been will not win him points with Murray who will grind out long rallies where Fed will get impatient, pull the trigger causing an error.

I think Djokovic can topple him on clay though.

[Silver]

Incidentally, why are the courts so slow at this tournament? I thought that indoor was traditionally supposed to be a fast surface. All I've seen is a rather high bounce and very few outright winners from the back.

[User 774433]

OK guys, I'm going to O2 today to watch both the semis

Hope the matches are competitive!

[lags72]

IMBL : You are very lucky indeed. There are few better places to be today.

Jealous .... moi ....?

[laverfan]

Incidentally, why are the courts so slow at this tournament? I thought that indoor was traditionally supposed to be a fast surface. All I've seen is a rather high bounce and very few outright winners from the back.

It is due to the surface coat. Very similar to USO/Basel. The increased roughness (or friction) of the surface helps in slowing the ball enough to time it better for many. Pat Cash has commented on it as well ( https://www.606v2.com/t36866-slow-courts-pat-cash-echoes-606v2 ). Dubai and Cincy being outdoor are still fast.

@IMBL... take a mobile device and post, if you can, from O2.

[The Special Juan]

B & B beat S & P to reach the final.

[The Special Juan]

Any hope for DelPo today? I think he can win if he plays to the best of his ability but I wouldn't bet on it. He needs a good start (ie holding his first service game or 2).

[laverfan]

The prognosis is not very good for a certain Mr. del Potro, TSJ.

PS: B&B could be Bryan/Bryan or Bhupathi/Bopanna.

[Guest]

What an awful overhead from Novak. That was embarrasing.

[laverfan]

Del Po may not get any more opportunities.

[Guest]

Awesome match so far, some ferociuos hitting

Shame the court is so slow

[Guest]

WOW..

JMDP playing so well.

Looks rock solid from the baseline.

[laverfan]

Yet, DelPo does break. Very nice.

[Guest]

WOW.. what a FH from JMDP.

He's crushing the ball.

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