Finally a bit of realism, courteousy of Barry John

The ex-British and Irish Lions star has particular concern over the ability of the half-backs to control the game.

"I don't think our players are up to scratch," said John, 67.

"The half-backs are a problem. I don't think they're good enough.


John, though, feels Grand Slam champions Wales lack a fly-half who can "control the game and shake it up".

He also fears a positive start to the series will be ruined by a battle-hardened Argentina side that competed well against New Zealand, South Africa and Australia in the inaugural Rugby Championship.

"Argentina are up there with the top boys now," said John.

"Like they say in boxing, they've been in with the big boys. Their preparations have been better than Wales'. That's going to be a tough game, and so will Samoa."

And as for the prospects of a first win over New Zealand since 1953 or a first win over Australia in eight attempts, John said: "I don't think we're there.

"It's going to be a very tough month."


Read more at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20238233

He's being a bit too pessimistic. On the other hand, it is odd how half-back has become a bit of a weakness, it was always the strong point historically, sometimes pretty much the only one (leaving aside the Rupert Henry St John Barker Moon era, much as I admire his guts).

Pessimistic? Perhaps. Honest? Without a doubt. Glad somebody like him came out and said it, hopefully the players read it and use it as a bit of motivational factor.

Morgannwg wrote:Pessimistic? Perhaps. Honest? Without a doubt. Glad somebody like him came out and said it, hopefully the players read it and use it as a bit of motivational factor.

Morgannwg

Other people ( none Welsh) people have been saying the same thing for years. And you have all ways said that they was Wums. oh well.

No disrespect to Barry John but he has never written anything insightful or interesting, this is just another piece in a long list of articles stating the obvious

majesticimperialman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Pessimistic? Perhaps. Honest? Without a doubt. Glad somebody like him came out and said it, hopefully the players read it and use it as a bit of motivational factor.

Morgannwg

Other people ( none Welsh) people have been saying the same thing for years. And you have all ways said that they was Wums. oh well.

I take it you're referring to yourself? Some Wales fans have said similar yes. You're the one regurgitating it (in your own form of English) and trying to pass it off as your view. Which you do on every topic. Sorry you can't convince us that you have an ounce of Rugby knowledge by doing that. It's been discussed for months actually, is that how you count your years? And no I didn't call you a wum. Wum's are often amusing and have a background, basic knowledge of the sport. This is why I would not class you as a wum.

My point is that this is a reference from Barry John, not some 'wum' and the team and public will take note of what he has to say.

My point is that this is a reference from Barry John, not some 'wum' and the team and public will take note of what he has to say.


Do you honestly think / believe that?

IronMike wrote:No disrespect to Barry John but he has never written anything insightful or interesting, this is just another piece in a long list of articles stating the obvious

Yep. It's time someone said it though, instead of the coverage just documenting the usual from Howley and Warburton.

majesticimperialman wrote:My point is that this is a reference from Barry John, not some 'wum' and the team and public will take note of what he has to say.


Do you honestly think / believe that?

Well not many would listen to my word, or fans word for it. Like I said, I hope it proves to be some sort of motivational factor. I can't disagree with Barry John on this. Howley please read.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-columnists/2011/10/23/barry-john-rhys-priestland-emergence-ends-wales-outside-half-debate-91466-29644534/

Barry John was a great, great player but as far as punditry is concerned he changes as often as the wind

Morgannwg wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Pessimistic? Perhaps. Honest? Without a doubt. Glad somebody like him came out and said it, hopefully the players read it and use it as a bit of motivational factor.

Morgannwg

Other people ( none Welsh) people have been saying the same thing for years. And you have all ways said that they was Wums. oh well.

I take it you're referring to yourself? Some Wales fans have said similar yes. You're the one regurgitating it (in your own form of English) and trying to pass it off as your view. Which you do on every topic. Sorry you can't convince us that you have an ounce of Rugby knowledge by doing that. It's been discussed for months actually, is that how you count your years? And no I didn't call you a wum. Wum's are often amusing and have a background, basic knowledge of the sport. This is why I would not class you as a wum.

My point is that this is a reference from Barry John, not some 'wum' and the team and public will take note of what he has to say.

Welsh fans have been complaining about Phillips on and off for quite a few years now, actually.

PenfroPete wrote:http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-columnists/2011/10/23/barry-john-rhys-priestland-emergence-ends-wales-outside-half-debate-91466-29644534/

Barry John was a great, great player but as far as punditry is concerned he changes as often as the wind

Yes but just sticking to this article, do you agree/disagree?

thomh wrote:

Welsh fans have been complaining about Phillips on and off for quite a few years now, actually.

True. Bit of a scapegoat at times you could say, I can't find many flaws in any performances over the past two years if I'm honest. He's been one of our more consistent players. Unfortunately I think you may have, at times, come across the 'Knoyle Brigade'; a rabble of uneducated, bandwagon fans who always believe the grass to be greener on the other side.

MORGS - my point was I can't take anything he says seriously. Realism ? Well if realism can be found in the pub, maybe However, on the article ? I agree Argentina will be tough, as will Samoa, Australia and New Zealand - that's why they are called TEST matches

So Barry John reckons Argentina, Samoa nd the other 2 will be tough... WHEN ARE THEY NOT?!?!?!

He thinks RP doesn't control games... He isn't there to control the game, it's his distribution skills that get our monsters going that puts him ahead of Biggar. With Roberts, North, Cuthbert running off him he dictates the games pace, he calls the shots, so I disagree he doesn't control games. His boot is weak, but 1/2p hits the goals, and our kicking game is quite simple!!

No disrespect to John but he doesn't half regurgetate common themes he hears from other pundits.

I also think a lot of people are living in the past if the 10 is the only person who controls the game, scrum halfs, 12's and FB's all do their fair share, and the pack leader regularly calls the shots in the loose.

IMHO kicking as an attribute is now as least important as it has ever been for a 10, so why should a 10 be defined as not being able to 'control' games because his boot is lacking?!

Barry John: Priestland breakthrough ends Wales fly-half debate

by Barry John,
Wales On SundayOct 23 2011


PEOPLE have spoken about the great Welsh outside-half debate between Stephen Jones and James Hook over the last few years.

But the World Cup has proved there is no argument now with the emergence of a new name.

Rhys Priestland was handed the keys to the Welsh number 10 role in New Zealand and he can have it for as long as he wants it.

Who would have thought we would have been lamenting the loss of Priestland in our final two matches against France and Australia?


But Priestland is now going to be running the Welsh show for years to come barring injury.

He is cool, has a very good mind tactically and is able to control the game.

He kicks to the right areas and puts his team into good positions at the right time.

It’s a sad of fact of life that it is goal-kicking which has let Wales down at this World Cup.

You have to kick 80% of your chances to succeed in international rugby.

The overall tournament success rate of 35 successes out of 51 – or 68% – shows Wales have been below-par.

They did not nail the kicks when it mattered shown by the 25% success rate in the semi-final defeat to France and 50% returns against Ireland and Australia.

When the going has got tough, we have been unable to deliver.

The failures were most apparent against France where we were not able to put our noses ahead, the guilty parties were Hook and Jones.

Hook, especially, will be coming home unbelievably upset about his World Cup campaign.

Admittedly, he has been injured but by his high standards, he has had a poor tournament.

Now he is off to Perpignan, which is a wonderful part of France where he will enjoy playing his rugby, but maybe that is exactly what he needs at the moment.

I want to see him playing with a smile and a swagger again rather than the forlorn player we saw in New Zealand who was drained of confidence.

So this move has probably come at the right time.

Hook has declared he wants a run at 10 and he will get that chance at Perpignan.

I think he will bounce back and return from France both a strong number 10 and a character, just like Jones did after two years at Clermont.

The Scarlets outside-half has expressed his intention to carry on playing international rugby and that is great because he can offer so much to the development of this team.

He will accept the moment has passed where he is now first-choice and he will be happy to cover for others.

For while the emergence of young players like Priestland, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau and George North has been the hallmark of this World Cup campaign, I don’t want to see the older players cast aside straightaway.

I am excited about the future going towards 2015 and Warren Gatland has already declared he will start to build towards the next tournament.

My advice would be that while you can bring the youngsters through, and Gatland has done that magnificently, they still need to bank on some experience in the dressing room.

When the culling starts, I hope it won’t be too heavy.

The great Carwyn James always used to say the perfect team was a blend of experience and a touch of youthful enthusiasm, which we have in abundance.

One of those veterans, Shane Williams, will be granted a fantastic farewell party in December against Australia.

Shane has been an amazing ambassador and one of the greatest players ever to put on a Welsh shirt.

Look at the way he popped up again to score one of the tries in the bronze medal match on Friday.

This was a game too far for Wales who were beaten by a better team on the day.

But there was a feeling of after the Lord Mayor’s Show about the occasion.

It was played with the usual intensity of an international match but there was something lacking.

Both sides would have been wanting to play in the final this morning rather than 48 hours earlier.

So while there is optimism for the future, the events of the last two weeks still leave a bitter taste.

Wales deserved more and it will be hard to swallow what has happened in the last two games.

They would have still been thinking about what could, and should have been, following the semi-final failure.

Wales have done brilliantly in this tournament and will come back as heroes because just a couple of months ago they were 80-1 outsiders.

When the tournament started not many people would have given us a chance of being in Auckland for the final two weekends of the tournament.

But they have not still nailed the big victory.

The cynic will say Wales lost three games out of seven and fell short against South Africa, France and Australia.

They lost matches against the sides ranked second, third and fourth in the world and did not play the top team in New Zealand.

When you look at the stark statistics like that, Wales are still a little short of winning those big games.




Read more: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sports/sports-columnists/2011/10/23/barry-john-priestland-breakthrough-ends-wales-fly-half-debate-91466-29643280/#ixzz2Blf41JsH

IronMike wrote:No disrespect to Barry John but he has never written anything insightful or interesting, this is just another piece in a long list of articles stating the obvious

I agree, and he is nearly always wrong too.

Play 4, lose 2, won 2 is probably what will happen, with us being trouced by New Zealand and a 6-8 point for the other big game. Barry John though doesn't write good articles, Graham Price normally writes the best stuff in the Mail.

thebluesmancometh wrote:So Barry John reckons Argentina, Samoa nd the other 2 will be tough... WHEN ARE THEY NOT?!?!?!

Argentina haven't been good the last two times we've trounced them. Forwards NEED to get us some parity tomorrow, let the backs run riot. Hopefully Knoyle's game and diabolical passing doesn't stifle them, but that is what I see happening (as it always does).

Morgannwg wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:So Barry John reckons Argentina, Samoa nd the other 2 will be tough... WHEN ARE THEY NOT?!?!?!

Argentina haven't been good the last two times we've trounced them. Forwards NEED to get us some parity tomorrow, let the backs run riot. Hopefully Knoyle's game and diabolical passing doesn't stifle them, but that is what I see happening (as it always does).

I think Argentina did not select their French based players during the 4 nations though?
It might be a different kettle of fish though this time.

They did select them.

Yep, they definitely selected their overseas players

Barry John hasn't got a clue. Warburton says beating everyone this AI series is what's going to happen. "Warburton" is a bread manufacturer though so what does he know?

Morg

I think your right regarding Knoyle, but I think he'll be ok, the Argy game suits him a bit.

Argentina have brought some weakened teams the last few times they played us, and the MS is generally not a good ground for them.

I have never been a big fan of Barry johns column, he, like JJ Williams seem very bitter when they have written stuff