More Gamesmanship from Federer, the diva wants his chair

First topic message reminder :

Traditionally, the bench to the left of the chair umpire is reserved for the higher-ranked player in a tennis match. In the case of the year-end match at the ATP World Tour Finals between Novak Djokovic and Roger Federer, the honor should have gone to Djokovic, the world No. 1.

But Federer entered the O2 Arena first for Monday's final and took the chair for himself. It's a familiar seat -- no man in history has spent more weeks at No. 1 than Federer -- but one that wasn't supposed to be his on Monday evening.

As noted by a number of tennis observers on Twitter, Djokovic appeared to notice the faux pas when he entered and seemed annoyed. He went on to lose the first nine points of the match en route to a quick 0-3 deficit. That's not saying there's any causation, mind you. Yet players, even ones with as much talent as Djokovic, have been thrown off by less.

He would rally to win the first set, 7-6.

Did Federer sit in the seat on purpose, to send a message? Was it a mistake? Does Federer always assume he's the top-ranked player in the room? I bet if Federer met the president and someone in the room said, "Mr. President, there's an urgent call for you," Federer would dig his phone out of his pocket to see who was ringing him.

It was probably a harmless accident or maybe they broke with tradition on purpose and we're all reading too much into Djokovic's reaction. For what it's worth, Federer and Djokovic both sat in the proper seats during Sunday's semifinal wins.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/11/12/roger-federer-novak-djokovic-chair/1700519/


I love how the media covers this guy, "it was probably a harmless accident" Roger just can't buy bad media coverage. Clearly this another case of federer's gamesmanship. How Nike has sold this guy off for 10 edberg awards is a testament to the fact that half the tour plays for them and what great marketing geniuses they are. Anyone who can sell you a crappy 30 dollar shoe made in china for 250 dollars I guess can turn federer into the second coming of the gentle steff. Does anyone believe it was a harmless accident? Or like the time he yelled at Djoko's parents was that a harmless accident? Or when he yelled at Djokovic in the 2011 AO semi claiming he was "bouncing the ball too much", was that a harmless accident as well? This is the same diva attitude he has given Novak and Andy for some reason since the start of their career. Well it almost worked as Novak couldn't win a point at the start of the match, but in the end he proved that he has graduated from being intimidated by Roger's gamesmanship, which he by the way never gets called on. Another famous Roger trick is to change his racquet in the middle of games whenever his opponent gets on a hot streak, like he wants to tell the guy don't get excited it was just a badly strung racquet.

But anyway that is why this rivalrly in particular is so great for me, its not that they hate each other or even dislike each other, but they do like to stick it to each other.

To echo what Danny said earlier.. I don't mind that.

It spices things up

I know my eyesight's going a bit - but where does it say it's Novak's?

Julius:


It says 'Novak Djokovic' on the towel, as HM said.

socal1976 wrote:What do you make of the report that Djokovic noticed and was annoyed by it? Do you really believe it was an honest mistake? I don't, just like when Roger changes his racquet when his opponent hits a couple of big shots. Roger is a master of gamesmanship when he wants to be or feels the need to be, this is another example.

I do admit I would not be privy to all the rules of ettiquette that players would be privy to. But it is being reported that fed breached a known etiquette of this tournament. And now why did he do it? I think the motivation is clear, he wanted to mess with Djoko's head and frankly I like that about their rivlarly.

While this thread has not disappointed and lived up to the expectations of interest and amusement when I saw you were the author socal, I just want to point out that Fed always changes his racquet the game before new balls and I think that is the same whether he will be serving with them or his opponent will.

The chair probably was a little mischievous, I wouldn't know but I think your first paragraph is totally incorrect - oh yes, just seen Murdoch's post. I will just say this to you guys and I don't much care if I get a hysterical denouncement of me as a 'fed extremist' - did it hold up play thereby distracting an opponent while play had started or detract from the audience's enjoyment by holding up play? No, he is still playing by the game's rules even if he did set out to irritate etc - that still makes him possibly, along with Murray, the game's best ambassador in the top four.

Scream away now - I can take the name calling

It Must Be Love wrote:Julius:


It says 'Novak Djokovic' on the towel, as HM said.

Where?
The towels I saw had first/last name next to each other, not underneath each other.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Julius:


It says 'Novak Djokovic' on the towel, as HM said.

Where?
The towels I saw had first/last name next to each other, not underneath each other.

??
It says 'Novak Djokovic' on the towel.

Theres the same picture on another forum but enlarged much more on the towel on the chair theres blue writing, it does say Novak Djokovic, it's less clear in this picture

OK - it must be my screen resolution or brightness or something - it looks like a blue blur to me. I still use a CRT monitor at home.

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Where?
The towels I saw had first/last name next to each other, not underneath each other.

You've been looking at some dodgy knock-off towels, JHM!

Even I can see that one
Clearly Photoshopped

(Joke)

I'm confused.

So did he go to the Novak towels or his own?

emancipator wrote:I'm confused.

So did he go to the Novak towels or his own?

It's odd. Fed walks out first, sits on the left chair which has Novak's towel on it.

Yet, when Novak walks out, the right chair also has Novak towels on it. So I guess either a rogue Novak towel was on the left chair, or the towels got moved in the 30 seconds or so between the players walking out.

for what it's worth, the sky team defo mentioned it after the first set (Becker in particular suggested it was mind games by Fed: saying "I'm still n°1" in a way), I'm pretty sure I posted about it on the live match thread at the time...

I rest my case ladies and gentleman of the jury, the media turns a blind eye to Roger's blatant gamesmanship just like they turn a blind eye to his sometimes shockingly ungracious post match interviews. Roger Federer incontrovertibly proven guilty of disrespectful gamesmanship by the crack investigation of Murdoch. The monogrammed towel is the smoking gun. Novak's name is written on it. Now ladies and gentleman of the jury the question needs to be asked of the 10 time NIKe/STeffan Edberg award winner, if the monogrammed towel did not fit, why did you sit?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:for what it's worth, the sky team defo mentioned it after the first set (Becker in particular suggested it was mind games by Fed: saying "I'm still n°1" in a way), I'm pretty sure I posted about it on the live match thread at the time...

Becker gets it, he knows what fed was doing and the message got sent to Novak as well. It was really brilliant gamesmanship and almost worked. So much for the theory that federer is the only champion to never use gamesmanship or bend the rules of etiquette so to speak.

The key to the whole case for those not following is as follows. Federer walks out and sees a seat with monogrammed Novak towel on it, yet he puts his stuff there and a few seconds later we see said monogrammed towels have been moved to Novak's new assigned seat, the seat reserved for the lower ranked player.

In short the magic monogrammed towel theory proven by photographic evidence. If the monogrammed towel did not fit why did you sit?

Not only did fed know it was Novak's seat he took the decision to move Novak himself, knowingly and deliberately. You heard it here first ladies and gentleman Roger Federer in the eye of the storm, exposed in the shocking chairgate scandal, I just have one question, "what about the children?".

Having said that it probably was a bit of gamesmanship by Federer, I think a distinction needs to be made between mind games and rule-bending. When Nadal or Djokovic take too long between rules they are bending the rules, Federer isn't here as far as I know (it's more a convention than an ATP rule certainly). It's more akin to Nadal making his opponent wait at the net. I don't really have a problem with mind games, it's all part of the sport as far as I'm concerned.

Didn't Martin Johnson's England rugby team pull a similar stunt in Dublin in 03? Camped on Ireland's side of the pitch (something to do with the Irish PM greeting the teams determined which side should be where?) and refused to budge when confronted by the Irish.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Having said that it probably was a bit of gamesmanship by Federer, I think a distinction needs to be made between mind games and rule-bending. When Nadal or Djokovic take too long between rules they are bending the rules, Federer isn't here as far as I know (it's more a convention than an ATP rule certainly). It's more akin to Nadal making his opponent wait at the net. I don't really have a problem with mind games, it's all part of the sport as far as I'm concerned.

Didn't Martin Johnson's England rugby team pull a similar stunt in Dublin in 03? Camped on Ireland's side of the pitch (something to do with the Irish PM greeting the teams determined which side should be where?) and refused to budge when confronted by the Irish.

That really is the proper attitude, I am a Djokovic fan and I get a little worked up about but even I am not really that worked up about it. What I find baffling is the need to defend federer to the point of hysterics even against a minor and factually correct criticism. The mature response is to just say yeah he tried a sly little bit of gamesmanship at DJokovic, so what, and just move on. You would think I just accused Ghandi of mass murder the way some of the fed fans have gone into hysterics.

To end this once and for all-- I got home and watched the DVR in slow mo..... Watching it right now again. Federers ball girl who is holding his hand, lets go of it as they approach the 1st bench and stands before it and he sets his bag down.. She and he clearly think this is the right bench. You can see the towell on the edge but not the name..

Now-- Djokovic and his ballboy walk in a straightline BEHIND the bench heading directly for the far bench. Djoko smiles at the ball kid, pats his head, then puts his bag down.. IN ClEAR SIGHT- there is a folded towel on the arm of the bench that says NOVAK DJOKOVIC- fully spelled out.......

SO- you have fallen for a typcial internet baseless rumor.. or the writer of the article you sited did.. IT was not gamesmanship, it was the right bench. You say above- "factually correct criticism" but it in not correct. It is incorrect... Also I think it bizarre that you accuse Fed fans of being in hysterics over this when your the one who brought it up, your the one who takes it so far to say that Nike has forced the athletes to give Fed the sportmanship award,etc,etc....... Lets be honest here-- reread your first post... who's going overboard?

TRuffin wrote:To end this once and for all-- I got home and watched the DVR in slow mo..... Watching it right now again. Federers ball girl who is holding his hand, lets go of it as they approach the 1st bench and stands before it and he sets his bag down.. She and he clearly think this is the right bench. You can see the towell on the edge but not the name..

Now-- Djokovic and his ballboy walk in a straightline BEHIND the bench heading directly for the far bench. Djoko smiles at the ball kid, pats his head, then puts his bag down.. IN ClEAR SIGHT- there is a folded towel on the arm of the bench that says NOVAK DJOKOVIC- fully spelled out.......

SO- you have fallen for a typcial internet baseless rumor.. or the writer of the article you sited did.. IT was not gamesmanship, it was the right bench. You say above- "factually correct criticism" but it in not correct. It is incorrect... Also I think it bizarre that you accuse Fed fans of being in hysterics over this when your the one who brought it up, your the one who takes it so far to say that Nike has forced the athletes to give Fed the sportmanship award,etc,etc....... Lets be honest here-- reread your first post... who's going overboard?

Oh TRuffin, your eloquence in defense of Saint Roger the PUre simply does not change the fundamental equation that Boris Becker saw and this reporter as well. If the towel didn't fit why did Roger sit? He managed to get the process right in his semi. Are you telling me in his 5th match the 6 time defending champion hadn't figured out by the final that where they put your name is where you sit? It is blatant gamesmanship all that is left for our esteemed crack investigators Murdoch and IMBL is to tell us which room colonel mustard did it in.

I think the only fitting thing to do is to confiscate the edberg awards and allow Novak and Andy to burn them along with Roger's cream colored monogramed suit. By the way I like that suit and think Roger looks quite sharp in it so I will be sad to see it go.

Now all jokes aside as you are serious poster with serious arguments, the logic response to incontrovertible photographic evidence is not to throw the ball kid under the bus by claiming the ball kid "made me do it", the logical response is to admit he did it, it is a minor transgression but further proof that this federer as humble sportsman sold to us by the ATP and Nike is not the complete picture. I am sure in other respects he is a wonderful guy, I even did a thread on how he is building schools in Malawi and how good he is for the game. But to quote from my favorite eastwood movie, "Senator don't piiss down my back and tell me it is raining." The lionization of this guy is borderline Roman, all that is left is for the people and the Senate to tearfully vote to deify him as living god.

By the way would be interested to know how many of you can name my favorite Eastwood movie, non-related trivia to test the move knowledge. What movie is the line I quoted from? Any takers?

socal1976 wrote:By the way would be interested to know how many of you can name my favorite Eastwood movie, non-related trivia to test the move knowledge. What movie is the line I quoted from? Any takers?

Socal-- did you even read my post? The ball kid did it? What are you talking about................. It's clear as day. Djokovic goes to the bench and the towel ON THAT BENCH READS NOVAK DJOKOVIC!! IT's the rigth bench........ ur getting out of control now..

You keep saying Federer went toeh right bench in the semis-- yeah he went toeh same bench...... becasue there is no order by ranking.

again-- I'll make it clear since you ignore what I said in my 1t post...... THE ESPN FEED SHOWS CLEARLY that he bench Djko ends up at has HIS TOWEL WITH HIS NAME ON IT...

your demeaning response to me, ignoring what I said shows you are just bias to beleive what you want.. I looked at the video so I have no bias... it's clear. I suggest you do the same and then come back and tell me what you think.

Truffin, they moved the towels.

It's clear as day.

Look at the further towel here:

The towel on the further chair has got a blue strip on the bottom. Meanwhile the one on the near chair doesn't.

But look here:


No blue stripe on the bottom?
They've changed the towels around when Fed sat on the wrong seat.

It Must Be Love wrote:Truffin, they moved the towels.

Because they changed it, it isn't me who is saying this. Becker who should know also is backing up this reporters claim. The fact is that prior to Roger coming onto the court the chair he sits on said Novak Djokovic with towels monogramed on it. The guy got caught playing a mind game with Djoko, fair enough it certainly isn't the first instance in their rivalry of this type of conduct. Now maybe Boris Becker and this USA today reporter and the people courtside on twitter that are cited in the article are all wrong. But the picture shows prior to Roger's entrance Novak D. on the chair Roger selects.

socal1976 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Truffin, they moved the towels.

Because they changed it, it isn't me who is saying this. Becker who should know also is backing up this reporters claim. The fact is that prior to Roger coming onto the court the chair he sits on said Novak Djokovic with towels monogramed on it. The guy got caught playing a mind game with Djoko, fair enough it certainly isn't the first instance in their rivalry of this type of conduct. Now maybe Boris Becker and this USA today reporter and the people courtside on twitter that are cited in the article are all wrong. But the picture shows prior to Roger's entrance Novak D. on the chair Roger selects.

I can watch it live on my dvr and I have rewinded it numerous times, and there is no way that the less than 10 seconds the camera is off of Federe a thte bench and follows Djokov before it starts to show the benchs again that these people scrambled and switched towel.. I;m looking at it now... no way... the bench Djoko goes too has a towel that says his name the whole time.


look at it again.. what yoru seeing is the shadow and the part with design folded underneath.. look at hte positioning of the towel against the edge of the armrest... ti's exactly the same in the second.. This is typical internet conspiricy nonsense.. ure seein what you want..
Serously though- even I'm disgusted with myself gettign caught up in this nonsense.. Federe an DJoko had a great match. said great things about each other and showed the world how good tennis can be........... and us fans are argueing about the bench? you wo't see me on the this thread again so flame on.. I'm foucsing on the tennis.

This Federer obsession is getting worrying. It is indicative of a degenerative persecution complex as far as Djokovic is concerned.

I suggest that the author of this thread get some psychiatric help.

You guys really can't stand even the mildest reproach of fed without going ballistic. Ok I admit my timing of airing this issue does strike a nerve seeing how fed did have a great year and a great match and the season ended in a bit of disappointing fashion. Maybe it isn't gracious to point out this issue in light of tough loss. I do agree with the sentiments that this was a great match and a close match.

But as I said I never thought this was that big of an issue, it is a sidebar and you do realize that those of us involved in exposing chairgate are doing it with a big smile and with quite a bit of tongue and cheek. Either way, the guy was caught in some mind games, I actually am glad he did it, I like a little spice in my rivalry. Doesn't make him a bad guy but he certainly isn't pure when it comes to sportsmanship and gamesmanship. If you disagree fine, but as I have been saying if the towel don't fit then fed should not sit! Seriously, how much did dd fed know and when did he know it?

time please wrote:

socal1976 wrote:What do you make of the report that Djokovic noticed and was annoyed by it? Do you really believe it was an honest mistake? I don't, just like when Roger changes his racquet when his opponent hits a couple of big shots. Roger is a master of gamesmanship when he wants to be or feels the need to be, this is another example.

I do admit I would not be privy to all the rules of ettiquette that players would be privy to. But it is being reported that fed breached a known etiquette of this tournament. And now why did he do it? I think the motivation is clear, he wanted to mess with Djoko's head and frankly I like that about their rivlarly.

While this thread has not disappointed and lived up to the expectations of interest and amusement when I saw you were the author socal, I just want to point out that Fed always changes his racquet the game before new balls and I think that is the same whether he will be serving with them or his opponent will.

The chair probably was a little mischievous, I wouldn't know but I think your first paragraph is totally incorrect - oh yes, just seen Murdoch's post. I will just say this to you guys and I don't much care if I get a hysterical denouncement of me as a 'fed extremist' - did it hold up play thereby distracting an opponent while play had started or detract from the audience's enjoyment by holding up play? No, he is still playing by the game's rules even if he did set out to irritate etc - that still makes him possibly, along with Murray, the game's best ambassador in the top four.

Scream away now - I can take the name calling

TP, come now no one is screaming or calling names at least not from my side of the keyboard. I actually think your position is quite reasonable on this issue fed was being mischievous and he got caught, lets move on. I just find it fascinating that the smallest criticisms even those supported by solid photographic evidence and Boris Becker's at the time observations cause such a backlash of furious defense. I am not accusing the man of a serious transgression with no evidence like using PEDS or something like that, I mean that would be quite monstrous of me. I am glad you found the thread entertaining that is what it was meant to be.

I actually like that he did it because as I have said before it spices things up. And besides what is the harm in exploring the ramifications of chairgate?

Not to mention the magic towel theory, how did those Djokovic towels move from one side over to the other? Who gave the order? How many co-conspirators were involved? Were minors (ballkids) co-opted in this dastardly plan? There is a rich ground for further inquiries by our crack investigators. The towels go back and to the right, back and to the right, back and to the right?

If you think better, you will find out that this article is too ridiculous even for you.

Please explain whhy nin the W final Roger did't get the left chair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3Ox9t7I_vQ

Except that the towels were monogramed with the chair they were supposed to sit at JK. Simple question simple answer all week the players names are on those towels and they sit there. Roger seemed to get it right up until the final.

As I said Soc, you don't explain why the W final didn't respect what you are saying is protocol. I would expect an answer to that from you or from your little ranger

And you haven't answered my question do you dispute the photograph before our eyes, if the towel doesn't fit why did Roger sit? I guess Becker is talking out of his dirty place as well. By the way are people not allowed to agree with me and see things similar to the way I see them? Let the record show that nobody has resorted to name calling accept the legion of fed defenders. I admit I do like to goose certain segments at times so I don't really care that much, I can't expect that everyone will enjoy my calling federer a diva, but if you quack like a duck, well then.

That's irrelevant. What I am querying is whether sitting on the left chair is an act of disrespect in itself, which is a ridiculous assertion. Everyone finds the company who deserves Socal........

FAO Jeremy Kyle and TRuffin:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goose

JK I've never heard of this rule anywhere else, my guess is its only applied to the WTF. I don't know if they monogram towels anywhere else either

HM Murdoch wrote:FAO Jeremy Kyle and TRuffin:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goose

What's wrong in being Socal's little ranger?

Furthermore, I wasn't even talking about you (in this case).......

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:FAO Jeremy Kyle and TRuffin:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goose

What's wrong in being Socal's little ranger?

Furthermore, I wasn't even talking about you (in this case).......

Nor had I thought it was a reference to me! (even if were, I can be rather oblivious).

I think you've misunderstood the link I posted though. Socal has said a couple of times in this thread that he likes to "goose" the Fed fans and, by getting into a big debate about the left chair protocol, I suspect you are allowing yourself to be goosed.

But don't let me stop you if you want to run with it!

Personally, I just like to have a dig at Socal, but not to goose him, for sure.......

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Personally, I just like to have a dig at Socal, but not to goose him, for sure.......

Indeed. Having looked up the definition of goosed, I can only hope Socal is talking metaphorically....

HM Murdoch wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Personally, I just like to have a dig at Socal, but not to goose him, for sure.......

Indeed. Having looked up the definition of goosed, I can only hope Socal is talking metaphorically....

Did Djokovic actually get upset about this? Did Federer actually know it would bother him?

What does this say about Djokovic?

bogbrush wrote:Did Djokovic actually get upset about this?

No, because Djokovic is a mental colossus.

Apart from during his mid-season slump.

HM Murdoch wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Did Djokovic actually get upset about this?

No, because Djokovic is a mental colossus.

Apart from during his mid-season slump.

And the time he was mentally destroyed by getting a bye.

Perhaps a storm in a teacup, the chairs where players sit may not make much of a difference, as respective fans make it out to be.

On each bench, the right armrest has a Djokovic-monogrammed towel, and the left armrest has a Federer-monogrammed towel, if the camera was facing Lars Graf.

Players can pick either bench.

LF - you know that for a fact about the towels?

socal1976 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Frankly, I won't be able to sleep at night until chairgate is resolved, for the good of humanity.

Is your heart not fulfilled forever, then?

No when you guys realize that you need to all start agreeing with me I will attain at best a small and temporary sense of fulfillment. But I want a full on investigation replete with its own requisite conspiracy theories. Are we ready for Socal's "magic towel" theory.

Ooh I don't know if a call for an investigation is a great idea. We heard some of that here, certainly from 5.41pm and it didn't end well........

https://www.606v2.com/t6328-how-will-the-end-of-djoko-s-streak-affect-his-play

JuliusHMarx wrote:LF - you know that for a fact about the towels?

Yes. I will try and dig up a screen shot from the videos of the match. There is a shot of the Federer towel on Djokovic's bench sitting on the backrest, not the armrest. During changeovers when players walk back, you can see both armrests.


PS: I have watched the video and may be able to extract the screen shots. Just before Federer sits down, there is a shot of both benches, which show a pair of towels, one on each armrest of each bench. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCeB_YlhE68 (look at 4:15+ - BTW, I am not sure this video will stay there for too long).

@SoCal... do you think this is really that important in the larger context?