Wales v All Blacks Match thread, Poll, and Previews

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

So this week saw the fans calls for players unused the week before who are in form this season answered and we lost to Samoa, we also lost more players to injury.

So what next...?

Wales offered little in impetus yet again. Few of the form players made a difference against Samoa. Wales have to make a massive improvement in every aspect of their game for next weeks match vs the ABs but what are your suggestions...???

Wales team:
Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Matthew Rees, Aaron Jarvis, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton (captain), Toby Faletau

Replacements:
Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Aaron Shingler, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, James Hook, Scott Williams


New Zealand team:
Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Replacements: Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Brodie Retallick, Victor Vito, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

[RogerLewis]

Here's another stat.. the future ain't the past The moon was never landed on until Area 51 engineers orchestrated it.

Ever read about the umbrella man and the radio man during the JFK assassination?

[SecretFly]

Oswald's rogue bullet hit them too?

[Guest]

Interesting poll results, with 22% saying the All Blacks will win by 50+ points.

Since 2000, Wales has played 7 home games against New Zealand, whose average winning margin has been just under 20 points - the biggest being 38 in 2005 and the smallest 1 point in 2004.

It seems that a lot of people must think Wales has its worst team for 10 years and New Zealand has the best team ever. Are Wales 22 points worse than Scotland, who lost 22-51 two weeks ago?

Are Wales worse than Scotland right now YES

I don't disagree that Scotland could beat Wales at the moment. But be fair, my question was are Wales 22 points worse than Scotland? That's worse by more than 3 converted tries or 7 penalty goals, etc.

Isnt it a case of there being (on an average fine day) more points on the Murrayfield ground than Millenium stadium? In other words its probably just as hard for the ABs to get 15 points against Wales on Millenium stadium surface as it is for them to get 22 on Murrayfield.

Heres a stat, The All Blacks have not lost a test in November for 10 years.

New pitch.

[RogerLewis]

Priestland is becoming our worst ever No.10

Do you genuinely think so?

Henson, Dublin 2006.
Nothing will top that for pure awfulness.

[RogerLewis]

Oswald's rogue bullet hit them too?

Oswald magic bullet also went on a vacation to new Orleans to kill another 10 people before making a turn and heading back to get the congressman.

Watch this it's fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RUlYJxWE7s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[BlueNote]

"Henson, Dublin 2006.
Nothing will top that for pure awfulness.."

Colin Stephens? Henson was put in an unfair position that day, to be fair.

[majesticimperialman]

If Wales lose this week against the All Blacks, Which, every one is so sure they will get beat/thrashed even. Will it have any effect on the IRB rankins for Wales?

They are 8th now right. Will they still be 8th after the game, or will they drop out of the top 8th position?

[maestegmafia]

Some lighter entertainment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nzbn2/We_Beat_the_All_Blacks/

[majesticimperialman]

If only you had a team as skill full as those players.

Eh maestagmafia.

[Taylorman]

Wont be anywhere near 50. That will be obvious in the first 10 minutes where Wales will throw the kitchen sink et all at the ABs. I think the ABs will go away towards the end as the gaps get bigger and only if they pull together a sublime run in the last 20 will the ABs get near 50- at best 30, more likely 20.

[Higher_Ground]

"Henson, Dublin 2006.
Nothing will top that for pure awfulness.."

Colin Stephens? Henson was put in an unfair position that day, to be fair.

Yeah, but he came on out of position as a sub, having been out injured. He wasn't then picked at 10 for the next 10 test matches getting progressively worse. Stephen Jones was on fire that day till he got injured.

C'mon Priestland!!! We know you have the ability!!!!

[maestegmafia]

SPORTAL.CO.NZ 22.NOV.2012GETTY IMAGES

Matthew Rees knows what it is like to experience the pain of defeat against world rugby's biggest superpower.


Six times Rees has tried and failed to be part of a winning Wales team against New Zealand.

Given New Zealand's overwhelming dominance of the fixture - 24 successive victories stretching back 59 years - the former Wales captain is hardly alone in that department.

But even after suffering successive home losses to Argentina and Samoa, results that inevitably sapped confidence levels, Rees has billed Saturday's clash with New Zealand at the Millennium Stadium as an ideal fixture.

"It's great for us to be facing the All Blacks this week," Rees said. "We know if we play like we did in terms of our last two performances then we are going to be in for a tough day at the office and probably concede a lot of points.

"There are no illusions. We know that we've got to turn up on Saturday.

"We are a tight bunch who have been working hard together. You cannot fault the working week, but we know it's not about the working week.

"Obviously, it helps in terms of your preparation, but it's game day that counts and that is the most important thing this week."

While New Zealand are on a 19-Test unbeaten run against all opponents - Australia were the last team to defeat them 15 months ago - Wales have dropped to eighth in the world rankings.

The formbook therefore points to an emphatic All Blacks success on Saturday, although Wales can draw on memories of 2004 and 2009 in Cardiff when they finished within a score of winning and drawing, respectively.

"We haven't put in a performance during the past two weeks as a team and individuals, and it has been a bit of a wake-up call," added Rees, who has been capped 55 times.

"But we don't become a bad team overnight. We've had great success over the last 12-14 months and we've had a bit of a blip.

"When you face the world champions in your own back yard, as a player, a team and nation, if you can't get up for that then there is something wrong with you.

"We know how good the All Blacks are as a team and as individuals, but we know how good we can be as well.

"The whole All Blacks squad, no matter who they pick to play, they are all capable with ball in hand, they can all do a job in the contact area. That makes them the best team in the world.

"It is another step up in terms of what we have faced over the last two weeks and it is important for us that we start well in the first 10-15 minutes and make sure we take the game to them.

"We have been frustrated with ourselves in terms of the way we have played the last two weeks. We know we are a better team than that.

"We have got the best supporters in world rugby and we know everyone will be turning up on Saturday to see us perform. It's up to us to make sure that happens. The supporters deserve it."

[maestegmafia]

Hurt Welsh in search of grit and redemption

By TOBY ROBSON IN CARDIFF 22/11/2012
from NZ Rugby Heaven


Call it a hunch, but the All Blacks are in for a battle at Millennium Stadium on Sunday (NZ time).

The Welsh have been written off by their own media, their players abused on Twitter and Facebook, and their courage questioned by former greats after their latest loss, to Samoa.

So there was a steely resolve and a distinct lack of bravado at the team's Vale of Glamorgan training base yesterday.

It is usual in test week in Cardiff for the home side to talk themselves up. They have 59 years worth of pent-up hope to expel from their hearts and don't miss the chance to pour it out with all they have. Not this time.

On Monday night the Welsh squad watched a video of former wing Shane Williams' last test.

In it they saw the diminutive No 11 score a try with the last touch of his 87-test career. More importantly they saw his speech at fulltime when, with tears rolling down his face and his two young children in his arms, he spoke of his pride for the jersey.

Wales lost that day, 24-18 to Australia, but Williams epitomised the never-say-die attitude coach Warren Gatland will ask for against the All Blacks.

Wales assistant coach Rob Howley said of his players: "We know how hard they work and the effort and detail and attitude. We've never questioned their attitude and never will."

And so it was a measured, realistic, almost contrite Wales that fronted media as their team was named.

"We need to pull together as a group. There is only one group of players who can turn it around, and that is us. No-one else is going to do it. There's no magic wand," centre Jamie Roberts said.

No visions of grandeur here. They might not win, but they'll give it plenty.

Few know better the emotions within the Welsh camp than All Blacks coach Steve Hansen.

And perhaps he also knows the comforts of Edinburgh and Rome are about to be replaced by a truer test of grit.

Maybe it's why he took his squad 19 kilometres out of town to the muddy bog of Pontypridd, where the backdrop was an old building prefab being demolished by a digger.

The All Blacks' training session was a thorough affair in persistent and cold rain, one that suggested they know nothing will come easy this week.

The heavy ground made handling and footwork difficult and saw hooker Keven Mealamu limited to throwing to the lineouts as he looked after his dodgy calf.

It may open the door for Dane Coles to sit on the bench when the team is named later today.

Halfback Aaron Smith finished with his knee wrapped in an ice pack, but otherwise looked fine, while first five-eighth Dan Carter spent the final 15 minutes on the sidelines, to protect his precious legs from fatigue. It was nothing to fret over and normal procedure, according to team management.

If Hansen's comments so far are anything to go by, Smith and Carter are likely to be in a starting side based on being the incumbents who have played the majority of the season.

A question mark remains over back Beauden Barrett (ribs) who missed parts of training along with utility Tamati Ellison (toe), who is not available this week, but now able to jog freely.

[aucklandlaurie]

Discounting injured players and Adam Thompson, a likely All Black line up could be:

Woodcock
Hore
Franks
Whitelock
Romano
Messam
McCaw
Reid
A.Smith
Carter
Nonu
C.Smith
Savea
Jane
Dagg


Team to be announced in about 8 hours time.

[maestegmafia]

frightening prospect.

[gavstar]

ruby, grate on you it may, but 'working' can be substituted for 'producing'

the tactics are the same ones as before, which have in the past worked, produced.

everyone knows our game, and are waiting for us ( the samoans told us they knew what we were going to do)
so does everyone else.

so logically, after effort, if you are not getting anywhere in ANTHING you do,
you try something else.

[maestegmafia]

NEW ZEALAND are ready to roll out their big guns at the Millennium Stadium as they prepare for out-of-form Wales to come out fighting.

The All Blacks are set to deploy the same star-studded side that romped to The Rugby Championship title last month with six straight wins over Southern Hemisphere powerhouses Australia, South Africa and Argentina.

Only hooker Keven Mealamu and scrum half Aaron Smith are doubts for the clash in Cardiff on Saturday, with experienced duo Andrew Hore and Piri Weepu set to step in.

After resting key players for the wins over Scotland and Italy over the last fortnight the All Blacks insist they will not be underestimating Warren Gatland’s side, despite their dismal run of results.

Wales go into Saturday’s clash off the back of five straight defeats while their New Zealand counterparts are unbeaten in 19 test matches stretching back to August 2011.

All Blacks number eight Kieran Read said: “You look at a team like Wales and not too long ago they were dominating European rugby and no team goes backwards that quickly.

“They are still a quality side and we respect them a lot. They’ll definitely be a lot better than the last two weeks.

“They won’t be happy with where they are at, so we know they are going to be looking to come out strong.

“When your backs are against the wall you are going to come out fighting and that’s what we are expecting.

“We expect a really big test from them.”



Read more: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/11/21/new-zealand-to-name-full-strength-team-against-wales-91466-32272529/#ixzz2CtC9crBS

[Taylorman]

Hate it when the general perception is that our opposition is near written off.

It feels like making sure the front door is locked tight, security alarm is armed and our family is off on holiday...I'm sure we... forgot.... something....

.......

.......

Wheres Kevin!!!!

[aucklandlaurie]

Kevins got a strained calf muscle.

[maestegmafia]

what time in gmt is the team being announced?

[maestegmafia]

Very good of Keiran Read to expect big things of Wales but I fear he might have missed the last two games...

All Blacks number eight Kieran Read expects a battle to savour when they meet Wales in Cardiff on Saturday.
World champions New Zealand are overwhelming favourites against an out-of-sorts Wales side which has lost five consecutive matches .
The All Blacks, by contrast, are unbeaten in 19 games over the past 15 months.
"Not too long ago they were dominating European rugby and no team goes backwards that quickly," Read said.
"They are still a quality side and we respect them for that, and any team with their backs against the wall will come out fighting, so we expect that on Saturday night.
LAST SIX MEETINGS
Nov 2010: Wales 25-37 NZ
Jun 2010: NZ 29-10 Wales
Jun 2010: NZ 42-9 Wales
Nov 2009: Wales 12-19 NZ
Nov 2008: Wales 9-29 NZ
Nov 2006: Wales 10-45 NZ
"Wales will raise their game, they will be a lot better across the board. They won't be happy with where they are at and in that position you really dig your heels in and look to come out strong."
Read captained New Zealand in the latest of those wins, a 42-10 success against Italy - a sharp contrast to Wales' autumn internationals so far.
Their defeat against Argentina on November 10 was followed by a 26-19 loss against Samoa on November 16.
Welsh spirits have been boosted by the return of head coach Warren Gatland after a spell carrying out duties as Lions coach for the 2013 tour.
He made his mark straight away by making five changes to the team for Saturday's match in Cardiff.
History is against Wales who have not beaten the All Blacks since 1953, but Read says his experience of playing Wales suggests it will be a tough day at the office.
"Over here it has generally taken us a full 80 minutes to wear them down," he said,
"I don't think we have ever had an easy game against Wales since I have been involved.
"They are a tough side and really come at us physically, so it is always a really tough game against them."

[aucklandlaurie]

what time in gmt is the team being announced?

Its done to coincide with Television evening news time in New Zealand, so it'll be about 5.30 in the morning for you.

[majesticimperialman]

Do you think that Kieran Reid is trying to make Wales feel better about them selves?

Also do you think that Gatland has made the right call by bringing back Sam Warburotn to the starting lineup?...Do you not think that Gatland should have brought Tuperic in instead and left Ryan Jones at Cpatain?

[maestegmafia]

I think i'll not wait up for it then...!

Sounds like the ABs are going to pick their best side to play us. A fearsome prospect, and I'm naturally an optimist.

[maestegmafia]

Do you think that Kieran Reid is trying to make Wales feel better about themselves?

Also do you think that Gatland has made the right call by bringing back Sam Warburton to the starting lineup?

Do you not think that Gatland should have brought Tuperic in instead and left Ryan Jones as Captain?

Tipuric didn't play well last week, and Ryan Jones wasn't a very good leader.

[aucklandlaurie]

Very good of Keiran Read to expect big things of Wales but I fear he might have missed the last two games...

All Blacks number eight Kieran Read expects a battle to savour when they meet Wales in Cardiff on Saturday.
World champions New Zealand are overwhelming favourites against an out-of-sorts Wales side which has lost five consecutive matches .
The All Blacks, by contrast, are unbeaten in 19 games over the past 15 months.
"Not too long ago they were dominating European rugby and no team goes backwards that quickly," Read said.
"They are still a quality side and we respect them for that, and any team with their backs against the wall will come out fighting, so we expect that on Saturday night.
LAST SIX MEETINGS
Nov 2010: Wales 25-37 NZ
Jun 2010: NZ 29-10 Wales
Jun 2010: NZ 42-9 Wales
Nov 2009: Wales 12-19 NZ
Nov 2008: Wales 9-29 NZ
Nov 2006: Wales 10-45 NZ
"Wales will raise their game, they will be a lot better across the board. They won't be happy with where they are at and in that position you really dig your heels in and look to come out strong."
Read captained New Zealand in the latest of those wins, a 42-10 success against Italy - a sharp contrast to Wales' autumn internationals so far.
Their defeat against Argentina on November 10 was followed by a 26-19 loss against Samoa on November 16.
Welsh spirits have been boosted by the return of head coach Warren Gatland after a spell carrying out duties as Lions coach for the 2013 tour.
He made his mark straight away by making five changes to the team for Saturday's match in Cardiff.
History is against Wales who have not beaten the All Blacks since 1953, but Read says his experience of playing Wales suggests it will be a tough day at the office.
"Over here it has generally taken us a full 80 minutes to wear them down," he said,
"I don't think we have ever had an easy game against Wales since I have been involved.
"They are a tough side and really come at us physically, so it is always a really tough game against them."

You may not hear a lot about it up there, but we down here have the utmost respect for Warren Gatland and coming in fresh to your squad will make it a lot easier for him to get Wales fizzing.

[maestegmafia]

God i hope so, as we have been completely flat in the last two games. Maybe they have installed two cattle prods to his Segway...?

[aucklandlaurie]

Gatland is very good at turning situations to the advantage of his team, even if it means going in to bat on their behalf, and protect his team.This man will have put a lot of thought into this game and he will be up for it.

[thebluesmancometh]

The way I'm seeing it is that Wales cannot get any worse than not make it into NZ's 22, not make a linebreak.

[glamorganalun]

Do you think that Kieran Reid is trying to make Wales feel better about themselves?

Also do you think that Gatland has made the right call by bringing back Sam Warburton to the starting lineup?

Do you not think that Gatland should have brought Tuperic in instead and left Ryan Jones as Captain?

Tipuric didn't play well last week, and Ryan Jones wasn't a very good leader.

I don't agree, I thought Tips had a good game but not exceptional, the same goes for R Jones, three penalties he gave away were very harsh as if he was targetted by the ref, as usual Jones was always involved in support and at the breakdowns unlike Faletau who spent most of the time in mid field and dropping the ball when tackled by the 10, he seems to drop the ball at least once in every game. I hope Faletau pulls his finger out on Sat as Warburton and Jones will need support at the breakdown. I think Warburton and Tipuric are taking flack and Faletau is not getting any, it would be helpful if the number 8 supported the breakdown as a unit. Faletau reminds me of Andy Powell going AWOL to play centre.

[aucklandlaurie]

I dont think wales have to worry about making linebreaks, as they will come out of the course of the game, what Wales cant do is kick the ball to New Zealand because it those instances of possession where NZ will counter attack and look to create their linebreaks.

Wales has to win the ball and hang onto it. I know it sounds very cliche but this is going to be a lot tighter throughout the processing of 80 minutes than maybe others think.

[WelshinEdinburgh]

At this point i'd take a hard working honest performance from Wales. It feels strange not having the usual over optimism us welsh apply to our national side but just when we think it's all over....... oops, is that optimism creeping in, just give the All Blacks a game, i'll be happy

[blackcanelion]

I agree with Talorman's earlier post. Wales are still a chance. I think this Welsh team have played some good rugby in the last year or so. This AB's side still has off days, especially in games where opposition has been written off (France WC final, Ireland 2nd test, Australia 3rd test). There's always a chance.

[emack2]

The team stated in the earlier thread is likely Hansen stated everyone except Ellison was expected to be available for selection.Given the IRB bowing to media pressure over the Thomson affair.Although I think his sentence was lenient, the independence of citing commissions has been bought into disrepute by the IRB.Would love AllBlacks to pick Thomson to start at 6 versus Wales then see what happens.Because by intervening the IRB plus the ineivatable appeal means
you won`t see him again in Black.
Wales will certainly be up for this match and would be very surprised if it is a blow out ,

[aucklandlaurie]

Allan they wont pick Thomson, now that the IRB have now given notice that they intend to appeal, Its too much of a distraction for the team, the loose forward trio, and Thomson himself.

Knowing the IRB theyre just as likely to schedule the hearing while the game is on.

[aucklandlaurie]

Heres the Team:


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10849204

[bedfordwelsh]

laurie,

Not having seen any of the RC is how close is that team to what most would considet 1st choice .Not that it makes much differemce 1st or 3rd choice we will still be on the end of at least a 30 margin I feel.

All the big boys who are available are there and main debate seems to have surrounded the No9 spot.

[aucklandlaurie]

bedford

Very close, this is the basis of the team that won the RC, with only Kevin Mealamu missing and Ben Franks as a reserve prop. This team gets as good as you get, and its an indication as to the respect that Hansen has for a Wounded Wales thats just got their coach back.

[bedfordwelsh]

bedford

Very close, this is the basis of the team that won the RC, with only Kevin Mealamu missing and Ben Franks as a reserve prop. This team gets as good as you get, and its an indication as to the respect that Hansen has for a Wounded Wales thats just got their coach back.

Yh cheers Laurie I though that was the case lol oh well will just sit back and (try) and enjoy watching you guys show us how it should be done.

[maestegmafia]

bedford

Very close, this is the basis of the team that won the RC, with only Kevin Mealamu missing and Ben Franks as a reserve prop. This team gets as good as you get, and its an indication as to the respect that Hansen has for a Wounded Wales thats just got their coach back.

The respect is always an honour, I have a feeling we will reflect on that respect with faces of awe and silence.

[Guest]

Who is the ref? not like it will make much difference.

[anotherworldofpain]

Who is the ref? not like it will make much difference.

Craig Joubert. He had a bad day out last time he handled the ABs, so let's hope he does a better job this time.

[GunsGerms]

Yeah he was particularly bad in the WC final.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I thought it was Clancy but AWOP says it's Joubert. Maybe Clancy isn't even a ref and I was dreaming about Red October.

Keven Mealamu is probably behind Hore at the moment so halfback is the key selection choice that will differ from the RC. Savea seems to have locked up the left wing position and Gear will make way for Jane with Dagg back. Weepu may well start with A Smith to come on. The bench will probably have the differences.

[anotherworldofpain]

Yeah he was particularly bad in the WC final.

I agree. He should have disallowed France's try since they were off-side at the ruck.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Mike Phillips:

"We have to show a lot more passion and fire than what we have done. We cannot fear making mistakes or the stage we are on and have to express ourselves."

I hope this is what we'll take out onto the pitch on Saturday. We won't win anything if we don't try anything. We'll need to box clever, obviously, but we'll also need to take our chances when they come, because there won't be many of them.

Also, if we're in their 22 and not getting anywhere, we need to look at taking the drop goal. It's not exciting rugby, but points mean prizes.

[maestegmafia]

How much difference to the Welsh backline do you guys think JD2 will make?

[wales606]

George North is out

Liam Williams comes in at 11

Scott Williams on the bench

[Luckless Pedestrian]

They should have moved Halfpenny to the wing, Liam Williams to full back.

[Guest]

They should have moved Halfpenny to the wing, Liam Williams to full back.

In time I'd agree, not this game however as Williams doesn't have test experience playing at full back, his only appearance was against the Barbarians.

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