V2 Fantasy Draft 2012!

Good afternoon people, time for my weekly thread. I know Sunday isn't the best day to post a thread but it's the only day I have free to sit down.and think about what I want to write.

Last week I wrote about moments that make me become engrossed in the product again. You can read that one here:

https://www.606v2.com/t37392-it-s-still-real-to-me-dammit

This week I've decided to do a Fantasy Draft and get your guys views on what would be the perfect product in your opinion.

The rules are as followed:

You have 20 picks.

You must list them in order of how important you think they would be. Number 1 being your top pick

You must pick 2 tag teams and 2 women wrestlers

You can choose any wrestler from any promotion in any era

That is pretty much it. Here are my 20. I have had limited time today so I won't be able to give reasons as to why but it should be pretty self explanatory.

1) Stone Cold Steve Austin
2) Shawn Michaels
3) The Undertaker
4) The Rock
5) John Cena
6) Mick Foley
7) Randy Savage
8) Kurt Angle
9) Brock Lesnar
10) Sting
11) Samoa Joe
12) Dudley Boyz
13) AJ Styles
14) Brian Danielson
15) Triple H
16) CM Punk
17) Lita
18) Trish Stratus
19) Hardy Boyz
20) Eddie Guerrero

1. Stone Cold Steve Austin
2. Roddy Piper
3. HBK
4. Kurt Angle
5. Brian Pillman
6. Bret Hart
7. Randy Savage
8. Ultimate Warrior
9. Undertaker
10. CM Punk
11. Mick Foley
12. The Rock
13. Daniel Bryan
14. E&C
15. Dean Ambrose
16. Samoa Joe
17. Dynamite Kid
18. Briscoes
19. Awesome Kong
20. Lita

1) The Rock
2) Ric Flair
3) Stone Cold Steve Austin
4) Vader
5) Shawn Michaels
6) Kurt Angle
7) The Undertaker
8) Rick Rude
9) Randy Savage
10) CM Punk
11) Bret Hart
12) Legion of Doom
13) Mick Foley
14) Chris Jericho
15) Daniel Bryan
16) Samoa Joe
17) Beer Money
18) Triple H
19) Molly Holly
20) Trish Stratus

1) Stone Cold Steve Austin
2) Roddy Piper
3) Randy Savage
4) Bret Hart
5) Shawn Michaels
6) The Ultimate Warrior
7) The Undertaker
8) Cactus Jack
9 & 10 ) Demolition
11 & 12) Road Warriors
13 & 14) Edge & Christian
15 & 16) Beer Money
17) Gentleman Chris Adams
18) Desmond Wolfe
19) Sensational Sherri
20) Lita

KF you'd go with Wolfe over the likes of Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Joe, Styles, Danielson, Punk etc etc etc?

Would love to get your reasons for that.

Wolfe was an exceptional talent, it was a massive disappointment that his career was cut so short, I was always puzzled by his decision to join TNA when there was a WWE contract on the table, but I guess he felt that he could achieve more in a shorter space of time in TNA, his first programme with angle was excellent however he dropped off considerably following the whole failure to make ric flairs fortune. London bawling with Magnus had potential but Wolfe's injury and condition put an end to that and his career. He had great charisma and could go in the ring he was one of those special talents that could not only get it done in the ring but could talk and captivate the audience.

By the way he's not dead just retired!

Wasn't it the case that WWE got wind of his medical condition that cut short his career but TNA weren't as stringent on their testing?

Yeah it was his now GM of ROH

Pound for pound he could out wrestle any of those names you've put FC except Angle for obvious reasons

That may have been the case, from what I read it was straight choice between the two and Wolfe went for TNA, although I'd be happy to concede that I'm wrong!

To be fair, only heard a bit about him from his time in TNA. So obviously I just assumed the others were better and more successful.

He failed the pre-screening test he's not the only to do so another guy had his wwe contract withdrawn after catching hepititus C from abdullah the butcher

I have to agree with FussyClaps though, as good as Desmond Wolfe/Nigel McGuinness was, he's not close to Angle or Punk. He might have reached their levels given time in the bigger promotions, but he certainly never did.

If you ever get 40 mins to yourself then watch this

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xps0xl_bryan-danielson-vs-nigel-mcguinness-roh-weekend-of-champions-night-2-29-04-06_sport

True Wolfe was good but no punk or angle both of which will be considered as ATG's

It was a huge huge shame with McGuinness as he could have easily become one of the biggest names in the industry, I remember when both Danielson and McGuinness were both going to WWE to sign I was more excited over McGuinnesss.

1) The Undertaker
2) Stone Cold
3) The Rock
4) Shawn Michaels
5) Randy Savage
6) Bret Hart
7) Hulk Hogan
8) Mick Foley
9) Triple H
10) Kane
11) Chris Jericho
12) Kurt Angle
13) Legion of Doom
14) Hardy Boyz
15) Edge and Christian
16) CM Punk
17) Rowdy Roddy Piper
18) Ric Flair
19) Lita
20) Chyna

That would be my top 18 plus two women. Kind of ignores divisional feuds and situations of a draft.

It's absolutely mind-blowing how far Flair's stock has dropped. 10 or 15 years ago, he'd have been the most common first draft pick beyond doubt. The damage he's done to his reputation is incredible

1) Shawn Michaels
2) The Rock
3) Stone Cold Steve Austin
4) Kurt Angle
5) Brett Hart
6) Dusty Rhodes
7) Triple H
8) Mick Foley
9) Ric Flair
10) The Undertaker
11) Chris Jericho
12) CM Punk
13) Sting
14) Roddy Piper
15) Daniel Bryan
16) AJ Styles
17) The Hardy Boyz
18) The Dudley Boys
19) Lita
20) Mickie James

In fairness I totally mind blanked Flair.

Looking at other people's choices Id have also been tempted with Vader (such a fantastic big guy heel), Trips (his positives surpass his negatives) and a few of the tags. I was actually tempted to have the Rockers and the Hart Foundation as my 2 tag teams.

1. Shawn Michaels
2. The Undertaker
3. Stone Cold Steve Austin
4. Triple H
5. The Rock
6. CM Punk
7. Kurt Angle
8. Brock Lesnar
9. Chris Jericho
10. Edge and Christian
11. Kane
12. Mick Foley
13. Hulk Hogan
14. Hardy Boys
15. JBL
16. Eddie Guerrero
17. Rey Mysterio
18. William Regal
19. Trish Stratus
20. Lita

I've organised my guys into the face/heel divide and there position on the roster.

Main Event Faces

1) 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin
2) 'Macho Man' Randy Savage

Main Event Heels

3) 'Rowdy' Roddy Piper
4) Shawn Micheals

Mid Card Faces

5) The Rock
6) Bret Hart
7) Cactus Jack
8) Chris Benoit
9) Kenta Kobashi

Mid Card Heels

10) CM Punk
11) Samoa Joe
12) Kurt Angle
13) Ric Flair
14) Bryan Danielson

Tag Team Faces

15) The Motor City Machine Guns (Chris Sabin & Alex Shelly)
16) The Steiner Brothers (Scott & Rick Steiner)

Tag Team Heels

17) Edge & Christian
18) Los Gringos Locos (Eddy Guerrero & Art Barr)

Woman Face

19) Manami Toyota

Woman Heel

20) Kyoko Inoue

crippledtart wrote:It's absolutely mind-blowing how far Flair's stock has dropped. 10 or 15 years ago, he'd have been the most common first draft pick beyond doubt. The damage he's done to his reputation is incredible

I'm relatively lucky to have grown up watching old tapes of wrestling, and still my memories of flair are few. For someone my age he is a man who has appeared when his age suggests he should not have, bled profusely and been far too mental in the back. Whereas at a young age hogan was a hero (so much that I used to cry every time I watched one tape as he was hospitalised by an injury) Flair didnt have that connection. I guess it's why I understand the popularity of Cena, although Hulk was different. Flair was no children's hero. Maybe similar to how Punk was the older fan's hero.

To be honest, without the Internet and my chance viewings of him as a kid I doubt he'd make my list. He made it over Owen Hart for me, and I think if I'd been as hot on WWE during lesnars real run then he'd be pushing both.

Flair has tainted his legacy, despite wheel chair flair being amazing! But that was for all the wrong reasons, more of a laughing at him than with him moment. The constant blood, being striped down to his pants and the incoherent blabbering has reduced his stocked heavily!

His final run with wwe was the perfect way for him to go out and made him look like a big deal, big props to the way wwe booked that angle, HBK ending it all was a perfect and fitting way to go out, yet flair couldnt resist another shot at the limelight and that last pay check.

FussyClaps wrote:KF you'd go with Wolfe over the likes of Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Joe, Styles, Danielson, Punk etc etc etc?

Would love to get your reasons for that.

I loved McGuinness/Wolfe and for me he was the best indy talent I'd ever seen, a complete all rounder, I also loved the fact he was English and sounded English, he didn't try and clear up his accent for the American audiance, he was just raw talent who had everything needed to succeed, he had the body, he was charasmatic, he had the height, he was excellent in the ring too, for me he was the total package, I also believe he was better than Bryan Danielson (who I think is an entertainment God btw)

I also think he is far superior in ever way to AJ Styles, again I like AJ for what he is but while I think he can do some spectacular things in the ring I don't believe he can captivate an audiance the way Nigel McGuinness could

As for Benoit, no doubt he was smooth as silk in the ring, I personally didn't like him though, I could see the value in him and appreciated what he did but just never 'got him' and while I'd put his technical ability above Desmond Wolfe I personally preferred Wolfe's all round character than Benoit's

The reason I choose McGuinness/Wolfe and not CM Punk was simple, for me it wasn't a case of one or the other, I wanted something totally different and while I'm not saying he's better than Punk I feel that with my earlier picks, particularly Austin/Piper/Savage I feel that I have all those bases that Punk would provide covered, I wanted someone different and McGuinness I believe gives me that.

As for Jericho, he didn't even come into my thinking to be honest, I liked Jericho while he was hot but on reflection I've never liked him enough to consider him with the greats, Hogan, Rock, Cena and Triple H for me are infinitely better than him yet didn't make my cut either to be fair, I tried to cover all bases instead of just having the biggest draws or most popular guys

As for Ric Flair....

I've never been a huge fan, Flair prides himself on how many Broadway's he done in the 80s but if anyone saw one of them then they saw them all, same goes for the majority of his matches, that's not a big negative, he gave fans their monies worth, its just not a style that particularly hooked me, I loved his 16 month WWF run between late 91 and early 93 and felt that he was booked like a true Champion in that time but leaving when he did and going back to WCW didn't do much for him and the slide was well and truly on, after that it was mess after mess until he became relevent again with Evolution, I felt this was the perfect role for him and the team had the perfect balance, after that it wasn't until late 07 when he began his retirement run and I felt that was one of the classiest and beautifully written stories the WWE produced and while its easy to say Flair should have left it at that finances dictated he couldn't just do that, he needed cash and he needed plenty of it, plus its his life, if people still want to pay to see him then who are we to say he shouldn't?

I think basic statistics will prove that Flair will be regarded as an all time great and a true legend of the business but personally for me he'd be lucky to make my own top 20

Completely agree about the retirement angle as I said above it was the perfect way to go out, it had everything a top storyline should have, drama, uncertainty and passion. The beginning of the angle where fair said he would never retire only for vince to introduce the next time you lose your done stipulation was executed fantastically, as KF said one of the best written and executed angles in recent memory

Some of the guys that I had in but took out where Bad News Allen, Sid Justice, The Fabulous Freebirds and Big Van Vader

About to lose it with a FB group I'm in where they're nominating Big Boss Man ahead of Roddy Piper for their Hall of Fame.

Piper is often overlooked because a lot of Wrestling fans particularly in the UK where only exposed to Piper as the midcard face who would announce Superstars from time to time

Plus Bossman's dead, there is a respectability within certain Wrestling fans that only comes with death, nostalgia is a strange thing

There's a lot of other dead wrestlers though that'd warrant a place before Boss Man surely? I can think of 10-15 pretty much immediately.

I'm going to sound like such a snob but I don't even bother getting into those kind of conversations, if I see something like that I just leave it well alone

I just found it weird that Big Boss Man of anyone was held in such esteem, he was just meh for most of his career. I got laughed at and told I knew nothing about wrestling for daring to suggest Warrior!

I liked Bossman to be fair but I felt his best run was in the 80s as big Bubba Rodgers then as the Bossman, he was done though when they turned him face, ihe was big agile and a decent promo guy, I always remember the superplex he took off Hogan from the top of a steel cage around 1989

I'm not making a case for him tho...before you ban me!

Hero wrote:I just found it weird that Big Boss Man of anyone was held in such esteem, he was just meh for most of his career. I got laughed at and told I knew nothing about wrestling for daring to suggest Warrior!

Kill them. Kill them all.

Kay Fabe wrote:I liked Bossman to be fair but I felt his best run was in the 80s as big Bubba Rodgers then as the Bossman, he was done though when they turned him face, ihe was big agile and a decent promo guy, I always remember the superplex he took off Hogan from the top of a steel cage around 1989

I'm not making a case for him tho...before you ban me!

I agree that as a big guy he was more agile than most and at some point for any hall of fame he'd deserve an inclusion, it was just that he was getting it before so many more deserving wrestlers.
He was the 11th inductee behind HBK, Austin, Bret, Owen, Eddie, Savage, Perfect, Edge & Christian (as a tag) & Undertaker.
Actually saying that, just looking at that list says all kinds of wrong.

1 - Shawn Michaels (heel)
2 - The Rock (face)
3 - Triple H (heel)
4 - Stone Cold Steve Austin (face)
5 - The Undertaker (heel)
6 - Kurt Angle (face)
7 - Brock Lesnar (heel)
8 - Mick Foley (face)
9 - CM Punk (heel)
10 - Daniel Bryan (face)
11 - Chris Jericho (heel)
12 - Chris Benoit (face)
13 - William Regal (face)
14 - Ricky Steamboat (face)
15 - Eddie Guerrero (heel)
16 - Ric Flair (heel)
17 - Edge and Christian (heel)
18 - The Hardy Boys (face)
19 - Trish Stratus (face)
20 - Lita (heel)

My first PPV would be -
Edge and Christian vs The Hardy Boys in a ladder match for the tag team titles.
Mick Foley vs The Undertaker in a no holds barred match.
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat in an Iron Man match
Daniel Bryan and William Regal vs CM Punk and Chris Jericho to determine the number one contenders for the tag titles.
Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar
Trish vs Lita for the Womens title
Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero for the IC title
Shawn Michaels vs The Rock vs Triple H vs Stone Cold Steve Austin for the World title.