Fans v Media. The subject of Mr Robshaw

Theres a chap called Eckers who posts in the Telegraph who posted this in response to yet another crap Cleary article.

I thought it deserves a re-post here.

PS: the Telegraph does have Brian Moore and Greenwood writing articles, so all is not lost, but the most recommended posts in Dreary's articles are ones slating him.





Robshaw had to make a decision after 77 minutes of attrition, emotion and passion. Woodward, Greenwood and Moore all said in the haven of the studio or commentary box they'd have opted for the kick.

That's good enough for me. I love the game of rugby, and its nuances and minutiae, and over a day later, I am nowhere near a definitive answer. It is naive to answer in hindsight.

Rugby is a game of inches. If Botha had let the kick drift out, then we would have had a scrum on half-way. Our pack was getting the decisions, and who is to say that Farrell couldn't have knocked over a big penalty - he has ice in his veins. We had lost 5 line-outs, and haven't scored a rolling maul for half a decade.

Robshaw does not deserve any of this. The fact that the journalists maintain that it was the wrong decision, yet mention the line-out stats, the rolling maul stats, and Botha's fumble means that the decision was only wrong with the benefit of hindsight, given that we lost. For anyone saying that it's symptomatic of our lack of attacking desire, I'd counter by saying that with a greasy ball, tired legs and minds, and little penetration, a kick sounds more realistic. You take the decision based on the two teams on the pitch, not on an utopian desire to play attacking rugby in the future. The only issue for me was that Farrell appeared to dissent, which made Robshaw query his own decision and waste time.

While we are on hindsight, Cleary applies it again when referring to Ben Youngs and how he should have dived on the ball. It was 2m out, with a pod of South African behemoths in front of him. Wet ball often pops straight out for a knock-on, and in a best case scenario, our 9 would have been under a pile of bodies, and it would have been a horrible kick for Goode or the injured Flood, if England hadn't been turned over by then, and a line-out in our 22. It was a thumper of a kick, which would have ended up around half-way 99 times out of 100, with a foot-race with England facing the right way. I can safely say that I would always kick there.

I really do not like the sort of article that attempts to inform readers of our opinion regarding a player. Hatchet job on Tindall springs to mind. For me, Robshaw is only beleaguered because parts of the media have decided this scenario warrants sensationalising. For real opinion, look no further than these boards. You can be sure as anything, that where opinion falls into two extremes, the answer is complex, and is somewhere in the middle.

I don't know if Robshaw is the long-term answer at 7 or captain for us, but he's a mighty fine bloke, and played a superb game of rugby, dominating his much vaunted opposite number and driving his team forward. Truth is, we're not good enough yet, and have no right to believe that we should be at the level of the 2000-2003 side. Teams stuffed fulled of captains and world class players cannot just appear out of the blue. We're a young side, and there is clearly a lot of room for improvement.

And finally: "...when the waters get turbulent, and on Saturday the seas threatened to swamp Robshaw..." I don't claim to be qualified to analyse such magnificent, emotive verse, but I would deduce that these "seas" in Cleary's best Samuel Taylor Coleridge impression would be the vast expanse of verbal diarrhea flowing out of media pen-nibs.

Rock and a hard place. The obvious decision was kick for a LO. However England looked like they could have played all night and not scored a try - and Robshaw was best placed to realize this. He did waste time faffing about before the kick. And Botha should have had a call to leave the KO to touch or for a player who has a better than 50% chance of holding on to a ball. In the end Robshaw played the (correct) percentage call but was slow and unlucky. He pressurized himself by not doing that against Aus.

The try was Lady Luck giving us a kick in the 'nads - should have been disallowed just for the cheek of it.

It wasnt the decision itself, it was the manner it was taken in and the length of time it took.

Asking the ref if he could change his mind is not the sign of a man in ccontrol of the dcison making proccess.

Robshaw's mistake was not choosing to kick but on taking so long to decide and then trying to change his mind. This made him look flustered.

Even then if Botha had been listening to Morgan screaming at him at the very least Morgan would have again caught the ball with one foot out, giving us a srum on half way and perhaps a 50% chance of Owebn's giving us another penalty.

Why was Owen Farrell argueing with Robshaw.

Robshaw made the decision so Farrell should accept it. If i was Robshaw in the changing rooms id have been getting hold of him and saying...erm im Captain...i make the decisions...dont ever show me up like that again.

Everyone can be forgiven for making a wrong decision, but it's better to be (or appear to be) clear in your own mind when doing it. Everyone needs to know who's in charge, accept the decision and implement it as best they can

Next big decision that comes along you just know Robshaw is going to be screaming the order straight after the whistle is blown.

He's learning, it's just in small increments.

What England don't need is to get into a lather of indecision over whether tap-and-goes are good/bad or kicking to touch/taking the penalties is the right or wrong decision.

These things should flow naturally and sometimes mistakes will happen. Just no dithering!

We really need to stick with some of these players making errors rather than get into baby/bathwater territory.

yeah, I think the test microscope is pretty unforgiving, especially given the small amount of collective caps this team has.

I was curious to see what Farrell was saying to Robshaw after the whistle blew, it doesn't take a lip reader to see Robshaw say ... Oh F**k after Farrels comment.

I like Robshaw, but this is International Rugby and he is coming across as, well, too nice.

Good article. That even a single voice is raised by the hacks in his defence is not enough to make me reassess these short termist vultures, but he was close to a catch 22 as you can get. As people have stated it was the dithering that was a bit head in hands.

The only thing i disagree with in this article is the finger pointing at names in the squad, but thats just my opinion. Win lose as a team.

Alastair, I don't think I was clear, the Hack in question wrote a poor pice as usual, it was a fan in the comments who I quoted above

damage_13 wrote:Alastair, I don't think I was clear, the Hack in question wrote a poor pice as usual, it was a fan in the comments who I quoted above

Oh.

That explains a lot though.