Pro 12, Round 10: Munster v Glasgow Warriors - build-up & match day thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Right then: 5th place versus 3rd place

Munster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

Saturday 1st December 2012, KO 19:45
Thomond Park Stadium

Form:

25/11/12 Munster 6 - 13 Scarlets
2/11/12 Blues 18 - 24 Munster
26/10/12 Munster 29 - 3 Zebre

23/11/12 Glasgow 0 - 6 Leinster
2/11/12 Glasgow 37 - 6 Dragons
27/10/12 Treviso 13 - 24 Glasgow

Teams:

Munster

F Jones
D Howlett capt
K Earls
J Downey
S Zebo
R O’Gara
D Williams
D Kilcoyne
M Sherry
BJ Botha
D O’Callaghan
D Ryan
CJ Stander
T O’Donnell
J Coughlan

Replacements:
D Varley
W du Preez
S Archer
B Holland
P Butler
P Stringer
I Keatley
C Laulala

Glasgow

15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Lamont
13. Stuart Hogg
12. Peter Horne
11. DTH Van Der Merwe

10. Duncan Weir
9. Henry Pyrgos

1. Ryan Grant
2. Dougie Hall
3. Mike Cusack
4. Tim Swinson
5. Al Kellock (Capt.)
6. Rob Harley
7. John Barclay
8. Ryan Wilson

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Moray Low
18. Gordon Reid
19. Josh Strauss
20. James Eddie
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Scott Wight
23. Byron McGuigan

Waffle:

Both teams snapped winning streaks last week - Munster a 2 gamer and Glasgow a 6 gamer.

Large number of international players return for both sides this week:

(a) For Munster Keith Earls, Simon Zebo, Ronan O'Gara, Donncha O'Callaghan, Donncha Ryan, and the newest internationalist of all, Dave Kilcoyne drop into the starting line up.

(b) For Glasgow the most notable inclusions are Pyrgos, Grant and Kellock with Ryan Wilson's form enough to kick everyone's favourite beardy Mr Strauss to the bench. Duncan 'Meatball' Weir returns to fly half after the best part of three months out with injury.

[Golden]

Lovely try from o donnell there. Thought rog had ruined it with his charged down kick. Great break by jones too. 14-3

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

TOD is playing really well. Earls is making nice half breaks and offloads. Downey looks poor as does ROG

[bsando]

Munster defence is pretty damn good! Glasgow getting some good possession but unable to get any points.

Good trys by Munster!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Stander has some pace for a loosie

[bsando]

Time for some subs I think...

Another cracking try, good pace for a backrow!!

[Scot Abroad]

this is an absolute shambles, I've never seen a worse defensive performance by Glasgow in my life. what a complete joke

[bsando]

ahhh dammit! Hopefully Glasgow get some of their chances in 2nd half, good game

[Scot Abroad]

Glasgow must have missed about a thousand tackles tonight

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Ha Munster just did the exact replica of the Leinster Clermon Semi 2012 move. Literally play by play mirror copy. Crazy

[Golden]

Ha Munster just did the exact replica of the Leinster Clermon Semi 2012 move. Literally play by play mirror copy. Crazy

If your going to copy from anybody it might as well be from the best right.

[valjester]

Munster are being killed by their halfbacks. Wouldn't blame Downey too much for his performance having to be outside that sh*te.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Ha Munster just did the exact replica of the Leinster Clermon Semi 2012 move. Literally play by play mirror copy. Crazy

If your going to copy from anybody it might as well be from the best right.

Jones slipped at the crucial moment but it looked like it may well have ended up working again too

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Munster are being killed by their halfbacks. Wouldn't blame Downey too much for his performance having to be outside that sh*te.

I don't understand why Stringer and Keatley aren't playing this game....

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Also; anyone else notice that Jerry Flannery's comments are entirely about Munster he hasn't said a thing about Glasgow once

[valjester]

Also; anyone else notice that Jerry Flannery's comments are entirely about Munster he hasn't said a thing about Glasgow once

In fairness to Fla, he is aiming completely towards an Irish audience, my stream is from BBC Alba, and their english contributor hasn't mentioned Munster once.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Fair point Val

[valjester]

It was the same when I covered games for French radio, we would concentrate on what Toulouse where doing right and wrong, and maybe a comment or two on some players for the opposition who would be in contention for the French team.


Earls did well to keep that move going there, don't understand why they are keeping Rog on the field, you would hope that it is to give him enough time to hang himself but he has already shown more than enough times this season that he is long past it.

[bsando]

I love BBC Alba commentary, very friendly to both sides. Commentator always has a good chin wag with whichever english speaking guest he has in commentary booth. They focus on Glasgow mostly but commentator always reacts well when opposition players do something good. Hah, just as i write this they're sounding impressed with Zebo.

[valjester]

I love BBC Alba commentary, very friendly to both sides. Commentator always has a good chin wag with whichever english speaking guest he has in commentary booth. They focus on Glasgow mostly but commentator always reacts well when opposition players do something good. Hah, just as i write this they're sounding impressed with Zebo.

Yes it is very good, annoying that I can't understand it all but I'm finding it very interesting.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Earls has had a really good game at 13 I think, winning the gain line fight, offloading, direct running. Still don't think he is a 13 but he is playing well there tonight

[valjester]

Earls has had a really good game at 13 I think, winning the gain line fight, offloading, direct running. Still don't think he is a 13 but he is playing well there tonight

I'll disagree with you on not thinking hes a 13, I think he is a very good one, which is why I can't understand why Munster got LLL and Downey. They should have just went for an outstanding number 12.

[valjester]

Did Munster just win a penalty try, from a scrum, with Archer at 3?

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

IMO he's pretty poor at 13 but I suppose we shouldn't turn a match thread into this debate.

And yes I think they did.

[valjester]

IMO he's pretty poor at 13 but I suppose we shouldn't turn a match thread into this debate.

And yes I think they did.

Munster have bigger issues than the 13 position anyway, they have some problem positions going into the HEC.

[MrsP]

Evening all,

I have a theory on the missing Munster fans.

There only ever was one.

Now, I know Stag exists because I have met him several times but has anyone here ever met any of the other "alleged" Munster fans? As soon as Stag vanished so did all the others.

I rest my case!

[GLove39]

31-3 full time score to Munster

[bsando]

Well I certainly didn't expect Glasgow to be thrashed tonight, despite playing away. Maybe a little unlucky with their chances in first half but Munster have just been so solid in defence. Never looked like Glasgow would score easily. Munster in attack were also very good, some really nice offloads. Both sides had their fair share of errors but Munster made it look very easy in the end. Well done Munster!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

IMO he's pretty poor at 13 but I suppose we shouldn't turn a match thread into this debate.

And yes I think they did.

Munster have bigger issues than the 13 position anyway, they have some problem positions going into the HEC.

Where would you consider their problem positions to be?

For me it would be the halfbacks and centres. 1 and 2 aren't fantastic either but solid

[valjester]

IMO he's pretty poor at 13 but I suppose we shouldn't turn a match thread into this debate.

And yes I think they did.

Munster have bigger issues than the 13 position anyway, they have some problem positions going into the HEC.

Where would you consider their problem positions to be?

For me it would be the halfbacks and centres. 1 and 2 aren't fantastic either but solid

I think they are good at 1 and 2 tbh. Tighthead must be a huge worry, Botha hasn't looked that good recently and Archer is shocking, they have some solid options behind that but they are untested for Munster. If Botha gets injured they are in danger. The huge issue is at 10. A Murray/Keatley partnership could work but it needs to be given time. And the centre partnership is a worry. LLL and Earls are more than good enough for Hec, but it is hard to say whether it is good enough together. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd pick Earls ahead of LLL, but I think Penney will stick with using them together.

Their main problem will remain 10 though, Rog is past it and is making way too many mistakes. Keatley may never be good enough but he has to be given a go, or if you want to make a really ballsy call go for JJ. At Ulster we're lucky that we have Pienaar at 9 which means it is easy for us to trust Paddy as a lot of the decision making pressure is taken off his shoulders, and of course Paddy Wallace at 12 helps at well. It would be a big decision to throw JJ in and make him the main decision maker, especially with LLL at 12 not being much of a help, but I think he would be good enough and have the right mentality to do it.

Of course this would be much easier if Murray was still a quality goal kicker, as he could take on that responsibility and let JJ find his feet as a playmaker.

[profitius]

IMO he's pretty poor at 13 but I suppose we shouldn't turn a match thread into this debate.

And yes I think they did.

Munster have bigger issues than the 13 position anyway, they have some problem positions going into the HEC.

Where would you consider their problem positions to be?

For me it would be the halfbacks and centres. 1 and 2 aren't fantastic either but solid

I think Kilcoyne showed his potential tonight. Galsgows scrum has been one of if not their main weapon this season. Munster dominated it.

Sherry showed hes a step up from Varley. Sherry has been quiet in the loose this season but he is a better thrower than Varley.

ROG once again showed hes miles past it. He kept kicking the ball away, was poor in defense and offers no running threat.

[valjester]

IMO he's pretty poor at 13 but I suppose we shouldn't turn a match thread into this debate.

And yes I think they did.

Munster have bigger issues than the 13 position anyway, they have some problem positions going into the HEC.

Where would you consider their problem positions to be?

For me it would be the halfbacks and centres. 1 and 2 aren't fantastic either but solid

I think Kilcoyne showed his potential tonight. Galsgows scrum has been one of if not their main weapon this season. Munster dominated it.

Sherry showed hes a step up from Varley. Sherry has been quiet in the loose this season but he is a better thrower than Varley.

ROG once again showed hes miles past it. He kept kicking the ball away, was poor in defense and offers no running threat.

The annoying thing is that nobody in the press, nor on a lot of site, are picking up on how poorly Rog is playing. I saw quite a few people saying he had a good game tonight, but his game is just completely at odds with the type of game Munster are playing, and the type of rugby that everyone are playing. The amount of times he chose to kick the corners, or try the cross field kick, when the better option was to run it, is getting ridiculous. There are times when the kick is the right option but Rog uses it as his default option.

Also, if Murray gets injured Munster are in a lot of trouble as Williams and Stringer are really quite poor options to have. It was to hard tell who was worse tonight.

[profitius]

The annoying thing is that nobody in the press, nor on a lot of site, are picking up on how poorly Rog is playing. I saw quite a few people saying he had a good game tonight, but his game is just completely at odds with the type of game Munster are playing, and the type of rugby that everyone are playing. The amount of times he chose to kick the corners, or try the cross field kick, when the better option was to run it, is getting ridiculous. There are times when the kick is the right option but Rog uses it as his default option.

Also, if Murray gets injured Munster are in a lot of trouble as Williams and Stringer are really quite poor options to have. It was to hard tell who was worse tonight.

They've a soft spot for ROG thats blinding them from the reality that hes 2 or 3 years past his best. Not only is he kicking the ball away needlessly, the distance in his kicks are well short of what it was. As you say his style is completely at odds with the new Munster.

[The Great Aukster]

Munster are starting to get the threads of a good pack. Sherry looks to be learning all the time and will push for Test recognition. There are some clever, and quick backrows emerging, but they need to learn a wee bit more Munster nous and that won't take long if they keep getting picked.

In the backs Munster look as though they're hamstrung by ROG's central contract - while Kidney keeps picking him, Munster probably feel bound to keep him match fit. It's not doing Munster nor Ireland any favours.

If Penney is serious about playing the offloading style, he needs to ditch ROG, play Keatley at 12 and start Hanrahan at 10. Earls' passing has never looked good enough to play centre. He may have played there throughout his formative career but his innate stepping skills means he backs himself to beat his man (first), rather than look for the pass (second). In an offloading game those instincts are perfect for the finisher on the wing, not the distributor in the centre.

It's not only Munster who have problems at Scrum Half. The lack of options make it understandable why Kidney tried to convert O'Leary into a scrum half, and Bradley tried the same with Conor McPhillips. Yet it ironic that in both these cases it was wingers, who aren't used to passing, that provided the raw material. Having seen the success of players like Parra, Laidlaw and Pienaar, the skillset needed to play 9 should be a lot closer to that of a 10 than Ireland are currently producing at junior levels.

[Thomond]

A very good win, I see plenty of Munster fans saying ROG had a great game in other places, meh would more or less some up my feelings. We really need Keatley and Hanrahan to get more game time, ROG cannot get our backline moving very well, and his distance is shot.



As for the lack of Munster fans, Leinster Fans work in posh offices for property developers while we are out milking our cows and planting our turnips. Was that not obvious before?

[Morgannwg]

So what happened there?

p.s. Told ya Stander would be one hell of a signing.

[Sin é]

Jaysus. What has happened to Munster 606 posters? I see about 4 Leinster posters on this thread and the rest Scots.

What's the fecken crack? It's a home game and everything.

I suspect like me, the Munster posters got a PM from the Mods telling us that they didn't like our style of posting. They also mentioned some row last weekend on here which I haven't got a clue about which apparently some people got banned for.

People from our neck of the woods don't react well to authority, so its best if we stay away.

[SecretFly]

I suspect like me, the Munster posters got a PM from the Mods telling us that they didn't like our style of posting. They also mentioned some row last weekend on here which I haven't got a clue about which apparently some people got banned for.

People from our neck of the woods don't react well to authority, so its best if we stay away.

???? Are you for real, Sin é? You got a warning from the mods? I heard about that cyber row and, like you, I didn't come across it myself last weekend but hell, it sure caused a major meltdown in the aftermath. Anyway, that Pro12 table is looking decidedly more to my liking after the weekend. And about time too!

[rodders]

Rumors of Munster's demise clearly have been greatly exaggerated ... not surprising really as it was me who started them.....

Have a Sin é ......

[Cryptoyourisan]

Didn't catch the game. Were Glasgow as poor as the score suggests and was it the usual litany of dropped passes and knock-ons that usually typifies a poor Glasgow performance?

[profitius]

Didn't catch the game. Were Glasgow as poor as the score suggests and was it the usual litany of dropped passes and knock-ons that usually typifies a poor Glasgow performance?

Glasgow were unlucky to finish on 3pts. Twice the ref had to go to a TMO and twice the Glasgow player was just out of touch. Munster played well for the first 40 min and I'd say discipline was discussed during the week because Glasgow had hardly any penalties.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I am very interested to see what the starting Munster XV will be for the majority of the HEC games for this season. There are some positions totally up for grabs with many players putting their hands up. Also we will get to see if ROG is STILL going to be picked as the first choice 10.

In the back row, O'Mahony and Stander will more than likely start, so it will either be a 7 (Ronan/O'Donnell/Dougall) or an 8 (Coughlan/Butler) chosen. A lot of different combinations here, not sure which is best.

In the centres it is basically whoever partners Earls at 12. Downey or LLL. Or possibly Keatley at 12? With Hanrahan starting 10. Or the other way around.

[TJ1]

How was weir?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

As spineless as the rest of the team - a v poor showing

[Imperialbigdave]

I only watched the first half, but I was pleasantly surprised to see Weir attack the line with a bit more pace than he normally does, despite everything else of course.

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