Manny - Post fight observations

First topic message reminder :

Marquez deserves his moment in the sun!!! Great great technician, perhaps technicaly the best mexican ever!
We have been saying it for years but the lack of solid defensive know how in the wildcard gym has led to the unravelling of their boxers.... Manny finally gets hurt badly jumping in square, but this time does it into a right hand!
Thank you Bob Arum for denying boxing fans the the Ali vs Frazier fight of our generation!!!
Does this finally allow people to say grudgingly that having easily beat Marquez Floyd is the best of his generation?

Great fight, two warriors, one true boxer technically.
Thank God Manny was ok!

Are we allowed to discuss that Marg might have used illegal wraps against cotto on this forum? Or the possibility that fighters back in the day might have taken the odd dive or two? Or that Wach used performance enhancing drugs or that Vitali tampered with his gloves (good old Gordy)?

I appreciate that this website belongs to the admin team and they can dictate whatever rules they want, but if we restrict ourselves to facts then you are going to have to delete an awful lot of posts.

As far as I'm aware, having an opinion about something and sticking your name next to it as a forum user isn't considered libelous in any way.

Surely by this I can go and pick out bits and pieces of things people have said about me that aren't true and sue the site or at the very least, the people who made the comments?

I'm not too fussed generally, but me if saying "I think Marquez was juicing" is considered the same as "the 606v2 forum would like to formally accuse Marquez of taking banned substances" then I think we all need a re-education on how we tackle subjects like this.

Good points, especially considering this site is for fans to express their own opinions on boxing in general.

If you cant do that, take the site down as its pointless!

I for one like to have a rant on here every now and again....just like Trussman likes arguments and D4 loves Mayweather.

Three points

1. It's a fine line between "I think X is jucing" and "x is juicing" - I've seen people on here using the latter.

2. Any claim may not necessarily be brought under English Law.

3. Even if there isn't a succesful claim for defamation - it wouldn't stop somebody instigating a take down action where the standards of proof are much lower.

I don't think thats the issue lads... The owners of the space the owners of this website are using don't really want that sort of thing happening and have communicated that to Adam. You'll notice adam didn't remove SP's post being suspicious is one thing, called him juiced is another.

I'm not really too fussed as I said lads - just think there should be some re-education given, because there are posters on here who may refrain from giving their input on matters because they're unsure of where the line is, just trying to help avoiding that situation.

I've no issue with my posts being removed guys, Adam is protecting something he set up and obviously has a massive interest in ensuring none of us get in to trouble.

I'm ok with it...

At the end of the day, you do have to be careful (with social media under constant scrutiny).

There's no criminal basis of stating "I think..." or "In my opinion..." - The mods on here have been very tolerant of a lot of the Steroid related things I post - especially linking names etc (and I do check what I'm allowed and not allowed to say).

We can no doubt still have debates on here and question bits and pieces...

Steroids are overrated anyway.......

Hard work builds muscle...steroids don't build anything.......

Without the hard work..steroids are redundant..

You don't just pop a pill and look like Arnie...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Steroids are overrated anyway.......

Hard work builds muscle...steroids don't build anything.......

Without the hard work..steroids are redundant..

You don't just pop a pill and look like Arnie...

But hard work with steroids is a definite advantage.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Steroids are overrated anyway.......

Hard work builds muscle...steroids don't build anything.......

Without the hard work..steroids are redundant..

You don't just pop a pill and look like Arnie...

No one proclaims that popping a pill builds muscle, but seeing as Arnold himself is a known and admitted dianobol user (granted it was before the substance was banned), it kind of invalidates the argument that "steroids don't turn you into Arnie".

There's a cloud over Marquez's link with Hernandez/Heredia (a convicted steroid salesman) - now if he has gone the way of Victor Conte and turned his life around and helped anti-doping measures, then I'm cool with that... But as the guy has often rediculed how easy it is to get away with masking doping techniques - I'm going to have my suspicions.

No but sometimes all I see written is "he takes steroids...."

As If like Popeye sinking a can of spinach you turn into something inhuman...

You don't I took "supplements" on and off for years and it's the same hard work....steady progress..it's always been..

Lumbering is right that they do help....but it's not overnight and it takes hard work!!!!

You give me a guy non-peds) who works his butt off, eats properly and rests.....against a guy who trains semi-hard on steroids...

Over the course of time the hard worker will excel..

Needs perspective this issue..

hi all.

Sorry i havent commented this morning - access at work is impossible and my smartphone lost in a fight with a train last week (not so smart are you now phone?)

also thanks to the common sense that some of you have expressed and got right:

there is a big difference between 'he is on steroids' and 'i think he is on steroids'.

There are precedents being set all the time when it comes to social media and forums - crimey provided the admin team with a link to a recent case involving libel on line.

We have had one professional athlete threaten us with legal action already (thanks to a boxing poster I add) and I just want to make sure that we do what we can to avoid a repeat.

Offering opinion in a well constructed manner is different to making statements as a ,atter of fact. If you could all do your bit, it makes everyone happier and there is less need for moderation.

The other implication is that as we are now doing the podcast, we are getting pro boxers to look at the site - we have another good scalp for show two next week.

Btw - feedback about sow one would be welcomed on how to make it better (adding trussman to the show isnt a good suggestion....)

Couldn't agree more with that Truss.

The issue is, without the governance of a true, tried and tested anti-doping method - suspicions of "conditioning coaches" with questionable backgrounds will ALWAYS surface. Not just here, but everywhere.

Imagine a bunch of hard workers who obtain that extra "boost" that certain testosterone products can produce are capable of? Before we know it we have a bunch of super-soldiers duking it out in the ring - as fun as that seems, it doesn't do the sport any favours.

The fact of the matter is, we need less of Hernandez and Ariza and a LOT more of the likes of Donaire and Khan who are willing to go for the random blood testing.

Surprised you've only had one threaten you Mate.....

Nothing worse than being labelled a cheat when you're clean.....

Maybe If you spent less time banning people for handbags and more time watching the slandering that goes on..

You would find it more beneficial...

Have that advice for free...

thanks for the advice.

It will certainly help the next time i have the urge to ban someone.

I aim to please...as you well know!!

Any individual that works hard enough can put on muscle, its not always steroids which is what some people sound like they're saying. Marquez said that since the 3rd Pacquiao he has been working towards a 4th fight and has been adding muscle properly for a whole year

Herrera had a past of dealing steroids, but since his incident he hasn't been convicted of doing it again

From the video of Marquez training you can see that he was focussing on Power, short repetitions of high resistant training, less work on in the ring and more work and conditioning. According to Ariza, pacquiao gave up on the conditioning side of things and focused more on the boxing side of things I.e, the opposite of Marquez preparation. That's why pacquiao looked like he was out boxing Marquez and while Maruqez was looking like he can stop Pacquiao

I think the idea comes from the fact that Marquez has never shown that kind of power before and now he has a new coach who has been convicted previously (not saying he's doing it now) so if you add 2 and 2 and think it makes 4, you have all the evidence to suggest the answer is a more educated one than without any prior backup.

Its very possible that Marquez has done things properly, it'd be a near somewhat superhuman feat to build that kind of muscle and to keep it at 38 in my eyes. Not to say that questions haven't been asked around Manny's camp of course, it just does seem odd in my eyes that Marquez at 38 looks in the best shape of his life, despite father time and genetics suggesting that perhaps this is near impossible.

I'm around a 60/40 sway to thinking he may have, although of course I hope for Boxing's sake he hasn't.

He's only put on about 5lb of muscle... Hardly a superhuman feat.

Jabby not sure how you can have a 60/40 sway on an issue like this....

Surely you either believe he has or he hasn't.....

Check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEM-QiNt6I

Marquez executed this perfectly

marquez agreed to take any tests manny wanted him too.but marquez said you have to take them too,manny and his camp went silent.
marquez had to bulk up to have enough power to knock manny out.a points victory was never going to happen.
its funny how mannys performances have dipped ever since the ped accusations started.and now he just doesnt have the same power and punch resistance he used to have.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEM-QiNt6I

Marquez executed this perfectly

Peach of a shot...

Reminds me of my favourite 24/7 moment...

https://youtu.be/BsNdd2MCMhs

Whilst it is true that PEDs don't just make you an invincible superhuman, say Floyd Mayweather FOR EXAMPLE, we know how incredibly hard he trains, he would take a fair advantage training that hard and taking PEDs.

I'm not sure, he's not the type to do it, yet his power was pretty clear.

He's lost a little bit of speed, alluding to natural growth yet he dropped Manny twice and Manny has a cast iron chin. Can't complain about the second knockdown, that'd flatten any welterweight, but I dunno.

Sitting on the fence.

I suggest you get to 38 and try to put on 5lb of muscle and put it on your shoulders like that LJ, see how "easy" it is.

Stress from working out makes the muscles grow.......makes them breakdown and then grow to compensate...

I imagine you could get a great physique at any age..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Stress from working out makes the muscles grow.......makes them breakdown and then grow to compensate...

I imagine you could get a great physique at any age..

Keep telling yourself that TRUSS

I don't agree that Manny has lost his power. He made an awful mess of Marquez's face. And Marquez said that he felt like manny might ko him at anytime.
As for Marquez's increased power, if your going to dive head first into a punch, then your chances of staying on your feet are greatly dimished. I was suprised to see Manny go out cold, but on replay no surprise. His head first dive must have doubled Marquez's power. Boom, he could have broke Marquez hand with the speed his chin was heading towards his fist.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I'm not sure, he's not the type to do it, yet his power was pretty clear.

He's lost a little bit of speed, alluding to natural growth yet he dropped Manny twice and Manny has a cast iron chin. Can't complain about the second knockdown, that'd flatten any welterweight, but I dunno.

Sitting on the fence.

I suggest you get to 38 and try to put on 5lb of muscle and put it on your shoulders like that LJ, see how "easy" it is.

jmm isnt the usual 38 year old though is he? he is a world class athlete who has woke up at 4am every day for the past 25 years probably and trained everyday. he was motivated beyond anything most people will ever know and has trained for almost a year for this fight, so 5lbs of muscle isnt really suprising

Just my thoughts guys, not saying its gospel and that I'm right

OasisBFC wrote:a lot of people are praising manny, and he looked good. but he didnt throw the fight away by going in gung ho. marquez timed im to perfection.

marquez won by measuring manny up and then exploding the perfect punch.

It was a great punch but to say Manny was not being careless is way off IMO.. He lead with his face, show me where he has done that before. He was being too impatient. Marquez would have had a hard time missing that punch.

supremeskills wrote:marquez agreed to take any tests manny wanted him too.but marquez said you have to take them too,manny and his camp went silent.
marquez had to bulk up to have enough power to knock manny out.a points victory was never going to happen.
its funny how mannys performances have dipped ever since the ped accusations started.and now he just doesnt have the same power and punch resistance he used to have.

With all due respect that's complete tosh.. Did you see the state of Margaritos face? which should have been stopped like the Cotto one was after his eye socket was broken, He knocked Mosley down which does not happen much and knocked Marquez down and had him hurt through the whole fight and you say he has diminished power?..

I just think Manny was less hungry as this happens as you have less challenges.. Because people saw a weakness and fault in him in the 3rd fight many think he lost, you could see how that motivated him..

nothing to do with PEDS, and there is no more evidence that he takes them than the likes of FMJ or Marquez.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4Erh4GTHxBU/UGfc2HG7XUI/AAAAAAAAEkM/upfC4Yx-FHg/s400/i-am-the-law.jpg