Munster vs Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Just starting a thread for discussion of the game at Thomond Park on Saturday night. Will add teams as they are announced.

Scarlets defeat at the hands of the Os has given Ulster some breathing room in 1st place- that fact, combined with the fact that there is an Ireland training camp in Kildare this week past and Ulster have three must win games in January (Scarlets, Glasgow and Castres) means that Ulster are resting a large number of key players.

Ulster XV & replacements to face Munster, RaboDirect PRO12, Thomond Park, Sat 29th December, 5.30pm:
(15-9): A D'Arcy, C Cochrane, M Allen, L Marshall, C Gilroy; N O'Connor, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, A Macklin, L Stevenson, N McComb, R Diack, M McComish, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, R Lutton, T Court, A O'Connor, A Birch, M Heaney, S Olding, R Andrew.

Still, from an Ulster PoV we'll still get to track the progress of some of the exciting young talent we have breaking through like Luke Marshall and Craig Gilroy. It also provides an opportunity for guys on the fringes of the first team like Adam Macklin, Neil McComb, Mike McComish, Michael Allen and Adam D'Arcy a chance to stake their claim for the important games ahead.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett capt, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; I Keatley, C Murray; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D O'Callaghan, B Holland; P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell, P Butler.

Replacements: M Sherry, M Horan, S Archer, Dave O'Callaghan, J Coughlan, P Stringer, R O'Gara, F Jones.

Good Munster team. Delighted with that- we'll learn a lot about our reserves.

They really are. Its annoying.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Haha does O'Mahony think he is captain!?

Munster deserved the score for the break and for having a dominant scrum overall.

Murray is playing excellently

I think he was being spoken to by Rolland as one of the chief offenders, and as the pack leader.

JmD wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:What on earth...? What was the Marshall binning for? Talk back? Use of the foot.

Thats not a yellow card at Ravenhill... unless you're in a red shirt that is.

It was a stupid petulant bit of unnecessary nastiness, the whistle was gone and there was no need for it, he deserved the card.

The whistle was in the process of going, a player can't be expected to stop instantly, that's not how the brain works.

I still really don't think we can argue with the card. It wasn't a proper rucking and the whistle had definitely gone before it happened.

You're allowed rake from what I know but must be a background motion, unnecessary and illegal =bin.


Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.


Munster playing really awful but Ulster are doing super at the breakdown, Munster showing their usual indiscipline

What was offensive?

Thomond wrote:You're allowed rake from what I know but must be a background motion, unnecessary and illegal =bin.


Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.


Munster playing really awful but Ulster are doing super at the breakdown, Munster showing their usual indiscipline

There's a lot of bias to be fair lol he also has some stupid comments like paul marshall finds a great touch about 2 minutes after he had been binned

Thomond wrote:You're allowed rake from what I know but must be a background motion, unnecessary and illegal =bin.


Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.


Munster playing really awful but Ulster are doing super at the breakdown, Munster showing their usual indiscipline

Munster's main problem is that the still look clueless in attack at times, they are really missing Earls to offer a spark in the centre. Has he actually had a game outside Keatley this season?

All in all, this has been not too bad. We are 7 points down against a pretty strong Munster selection with our reserves out. That said, Munster have looked quite poor. They are still playing the game in the way they want to, not the way they have to. We've played well and should have been ahead before that great Keatley break but we lacked that killer instinct and have made errors that have cost us points.

The big issue is Adam Macklin, but with Declan Fitzpatricks sick note we're learning a lot about him. And what we're learning is David Humphreys may yet be called to see if there are any more chubby lads with Irish grannies kicking about in the farms of Taranaki... but seriously, where are we going to pick up another two Irish-qualified tightheads to replace Fitzpatrick and Macklin? Leinster have about five but they'll be holding onto them.

Thomond wrote:Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.

Illuminate us.

neilthom7 wrote:

Thomond wrote:You're allowed rake from what I know but must be a background motion, unnecessary and illegal =bin.


Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.


Munster playing really awful but Ulster are doing super at the breakdown, Munster showing their usual indiscipline

There's a lot of bias to be fair lol he also has some stupid comments like paul marshall finds a great touch about 2 minutes after he had been binned

I don't think they've watched any rugby outside of Ulster for the past few years, which is very annoying when you're hoping for informed analysis of the game. I can see what it happening, I don't need someone parroting that back to me.

[quote="valjester"]

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Haha does O'Mahony think he is captain!?

Munster deserved the score for the break and for having a dominant scrum overall.

Murray is playing excellently

I think he was being spoken to by Rolland as one of the chief offenders, and as the pack leader.

I know there isn't too much experience in leadership stakes in the Munster pack but I really don't like POM as pack leader captain, the lad has loose canon written all over him in giant red letters. He is a good player (not as good as people say) and will develop a lot but he is so raw

Notch wrote:...The big issue is Adam Macklin, but with Declan Fitzpatricks sick note we're learning a lot about him. And what we're learning is David Humphreys may yet be called to see if there are any more chubby lads with Irish grannies kicking about in the farms of Taranaki...

For all the promise of our tight heads we are lost without Afoa

Notch wrote:

Thomond wrote:Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.

Illuminate us.

I'm probably making a bit much of it but it was something like "The Claw will have no problems with an unlocked car in Limerick"



Musnter look slightly better in attack with Keatley as he offers the running threat we need but a bit clueless still. Better than ROG though.

Good point from Donal Lenihan on the penalty try.

I don't think Earls would help the backline as a centre, there is just a lack of inventiveness in the backs, they are all on different wavelengths.

It is also very wet by the looks of it so that has to be taken in to account.

I tell you lad, if your skin is that thin its lucky you're not an Ulster fan!

Thomond wrote:

Notch wrote:

Thomond wrote:Also listened to some of the BBC commentary, Neilly said something I actually found offensive enough. There's a bit of bias to it but that's to be expected.

Illuminate us.

I'm probably making a bit much of it but it was something like "The Claw will have no problems with an unlocked car in Limerick"



Musnter look slightly better in attack with Keatley as he offers the running threat we need but a bit clueless still. Better than ROG though.

Sorry but if i took offence over everything said about NI i would be in a fit 24/7. Wise up

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Haha does O'Mahony think he is captain!?

Munster deserved the score for the break and for having a dominant scrum overall.

Murray is playing excellently

I think he was being spoken to by Rolland as one of the chief offenders, and as the pack leader.

I know there isn't too much experience in leadership stakes in the Munster pack but I really don't like POM as pack leader captain, the lad has loose canon written all over him in giant red letters. He is a good player (not as good as people say) and will develop a lot but he is so raw

He has led every team he has ever played for. He might act like a lunatic at times, but he is actually quite a good leader all the same.

I just thought imagine if one of the RTE commentators made a joke about that in Belfast or something, there would be uproar, I would imagine, that was the main thing that occurred to me. He fails miserably when trying to come out with great soundbites.



Anyway back to the game, Ulster have impressed me, Luke Marshall in particular and Adam D'Arcy looks a bit lively.

Thomond wrote:I just thought imagine if one of the RTE commentators made a joke about that in Belfast or something, there would be uproar, I would imagine, that was the main thing that occurred to me.

Ah come on, they say worse in the Irish media and they're in no way joking! You ever read Hugh Farrelly?

Thomond wrote:I just thought imagine if one of the RTE commentators made a joke about that in Belfast or something, there would be uproar, I would imagine, that was the main thing that occurred to me. He fails miserably when trying to come out with great soundbites.



Anyway back to the game, Ulster have impressed me, Luke Marshall in particular and Adam D'Arcy looks a bit lively.

The pair of them are f**king morons, best to ignore absolutely every single comment they try to make on any subject.

We miss deccie Fitzpatrick badly we have no back up to him really and Afoa can't play every match so its worry and I think Notch is right we could be looking for peoples long lost irish relatives soon enough in South Africa or New Zealand

Can't wait to see JJ get on for the last 20 mins... Oh wait he's not on the bench.

Notch wrote:

Thomond wrote:I just thought imagine if one of the RTE commentators made a joke about that in Belfast or something, there would be uproar, I would imagine, that was the main thing that occurred to me.

Ah come on, they say worse in the Irish media and they're in no way joking! You ever read Hugh Farrelly?

No, he is a complete tool, I remember there was uproar at stuff he said in the papers last year about Ulster, but there is a bit of a difference, if a member of RTE said something like that he would be fined. It's not a big deal, I suppose a bad joke gone wrong really, Neilly seems to make a few cringeworthy comments, and poor jokes. Farrelly had a great cut off internet bloggers yesterday as well. A Cork Con man from what I am told, the majority are gobshoites

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Good point from Donal Lenihan on the penalty try.

I don't think Earls would help the backline as a centre, there is just a lack of inventiveness in the backs, they are all on different wavelengths.

It is also very wet by the looks of it so that has to be taken in to account.

If you look at how Munster were using Earls in the few games after the internationals I think he would have been a lot of use in this game. He needs to have some time outside a playmaker of any kind, so far this season he has been hamstrung by Rog and whoever plays at 12. He keeps popping up as first receiver and making breaks but whenever he receives ball from Rog, it is so telegraphed that he get two players with it. If he had the opportunity to play off of a genuine threat at 10 he might actually get the ball without an opposition player attached to it every now and again.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can't wait to see JJ get on for the last 20 mins... Oh wait he's not on the bench.

Ah sure he got 4 mins on the wing last week, what more to you want.

Atrocious defence there, come on Ulster, I (a prop) could have run through that gap.

That was way,way too easy. Poor organisation in defence. Nice stuff Simon, won't get too many soft ones like that.

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can't wait to see JJ get on for the last 20 mins... Oh wait he's not on the bench.

Ah sure he got 4 mins on the wing last week, what more to you want.

On the wing? Wtf is the Munster coach doing with this guy.

Hurley is much more efficient at killing Munster attacks than any opposition defence.

Zebo was getting much more involved before that break, Murray really is having a fine game.

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Haha does O'Mahony think he is captain!?

Munster deserved the score for the break and for having a dominant scrum overall.

Murray is playing excellently

I think he was being spoken to by Rolland as one of the chief offenders, and as the pack leader.

I know there isn't too much experience in leadership stakes in the Munster pack but I really don't like POM as pack leader captain, the lad has loose canon written all over him in giant red letters. He is a good player (not as good as people say) and will develop a lot but he is so raw

He has led every team he has ever played for. He might act like a lunatic at times, but he is actually quite a good leader all the same.

Obviously I amn't in the team and haven't got any sense of what he is like from the perspective of the rest of the team, from my pov he doesn't look like a leader

Poor bit of organisation in Ulster defence there. What was Zebo's celebration about he needs to work on it poor effort really i would give it better than Court but no chris ashton lol

I'm just really frustrated with Adam Macklin. He's been with us for a long time now and he isn't delivering. Even if he does stay, he needs to get sent back to the AIL to learn his trade. And that means we need another couple of tightheads.

Ah thats frustrating. We matched them for 30 minutes and we've just handed them momentum.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can't wait to see JJ get on for the last 20 mins... Oh wait he's not on the bench.

Ah sure he got 4 mins on the wing last week, what more to you want.

On the wing? Wtf is the Munster coach doing with this guy.

In fairness I think it was due to an injury.

Marshall has really had a shocker, even before the binning he wasn't playing well, no matter what Neilly may say.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can't wait to see JJ get on for the last 20 mins... Oh wait he's not on the bench.

Ah sure he got 4 mins on the wing last week, what more to you want.

On the wing? Wtf is the Munster coach doing with this guy.

I think he played full back, the IRFU are the ones making sure ROG gets picked, that's as big a problem as anything. Penney has a reputation for bringing through youth, he will get more gametime as the season goes on hopefully. ROG retiring could be great for him but don't expect it.

Connacht fans in fine voice here in Limerick.

Oh Ulster

That lineout was ridiculously crooked. I think crooked lineouts (more at the front) and crooked scrum feeds are definitely something the IRB need to look at.

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Good point from Donal Lenihan on the penalty try.

I don't think Earls would help the backline as a centre, there is just a lack of inventiveness in the backs, they are all on different wavelengths.

It is also very wet by the looks of it so that has to be taken in to account.

If you look at how Munster were using Earls in the few games after the internationals I think he would have been a lot of use in this game. He needs to have some time outside a playmaker of any kind, so far this season he has been hamstrung by Rog and whoever plays at 12. He keeps popping up as first receiver and making breaks but whenever he receives ball from Rog, it is so telegraphed that he get two players with it. If he had the opportunity to play off of a genuine threat at 10 he might actually get the ball without an opposition player attached to it every now and again.

I agree with the ROG part but I think Earls is pretty overrated and LLL is a better player

Great try Zebo, he is looking very hungry and very creative.
Murray is having his best game in ages! Great to see.

Eek think it was Luke Marshall that fell off POM there. Great control by Murray again

And it's Luke Marshall, Ulster's best tackler today, who misses the tackle.

I take it Marshall's idol was ROG with that tackle. Sit down boy!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Obviously I amn't in the team and haven't got any sense of what he is like from the perspective of the rest of the team, from my pov he doesn't look like a leader

What does leadership look like though? Its hard enough to quantify. I would know a number of lads who played with him for Ireland u20, when he was part of a poor pack who he pretty much dragged up to his standard, and they all speak highly of him. The few people I know involved with Munster also speak highly of him. Think back to last year in the semi against the Ospreys, when Munster were hammered, he was the only one in the pack who came out of it with any credit, he spent the entire time trying to get his team to up their game, he wasn't his fault they weren't up to it.

WHY IS ROG COMING ON!?!?! RIDICULOUS!

Haha! They're bringing ROG on! Jeez....

I'll tell you why our national side will never do anything of note. Because there is no indignity Ireland could suffer that would hurt me as much as losing to Munster, even when we've effectively downgraded the game as a low priority game in mid-season. 60-0 has nothing on this boys.

Deccie must have put a call into Penney. Penney looks like a Muppet as well by the way thinking the Eagle

Spoiler:

Isn't ROG looking grey?

Score check: 24-3 at 54 minutes.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

I agree with the ROG part but I think Earls is pretty overrated and LLL is a better player

Great try Zebo, he is looking very hungry and very creative.
Murray is having his best game in ages! Great to see.

Pete we've had this discussion before, but LLL has been an extremely poor signing for Munster. He hasn't lived up to his billing in defence or attack and Earls has been much better than him this season. I find it hard to believe Earls can be overrated considering the hammering he gets here and pretty much everywhere else on the internet. He has been Munster's best back for the last few seasons.

Murray has played very well in pretty much every game since his disaster in Paris.

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Obviously I amn't in the team and haven't got any sense of what he is like from the perspective of the rest of the team, from my pov he doesn't look like a leader

What does leadership look like though? Its hard enough to quantify. I would know a number of lads who played with him for Ireland u20, when he was part of a poor pack who he pretty much dragged up to his standard, and they all speak highly of him. The few people I know involved with Munster also speak highly of him. Think back to last year in the semi against the Ospreys, when Munster were hammered, he was the only one in the pack who came out of it with any credit, he spent the entire time trying to get his team to up their game, he wasn't his fault they weren't up to it.

I'd bow to your superior knowledge on this Val as I have no such inside info on him apart from one lad playing 10 who said he never had as little time on the ball as he did the day he came up against a team with POM at 7.

I just don't see it myself but yeah I'll concede on that

I hope POC isn't sitting with his fellow retirees.

valjester wrote:Murray has played very well in pretty much every game since his disaster in Paris.

This is true, he was going to get the Ireland 9 shirt whatever happens but this time he's earned it. Finally delivering on that potential.

FFS Rog, absolutely telegraphed that.