Wales team changes for the 6Ns

At present, only the Ospreys are showing any regional form - and it is important that Howley makes changes to the team and finally drops some of the off form players who have failed to improve their form with their regions

Wales will also have to cope with a lot of injuries - AWJ and Luke Charteris are out and Ian Evans, Leigh Halfpeny, Jamie Roberts and Dan Lydiate have yet to return to action.

We have to start picking form players

1. Paul James/Rhys Gill
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Ian Evans
6. Ryan Jones
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Matthew Rees
17. Rhys Gill/Paul James
18. Craig Mitchell? (Scott Andrews)
19. James King
20. Sam Warburton
21. Tavis Knoyle
22. James Hook
23. Lee Byrne/Liam Williams


24. Gethin Jenkins
25. Samson Lee
26. Ken Owens
27. Lou Reed
28. Dan Lydiate
29. Aaron Shingler
30. Gareth Davies
31. Rhys Patchell
32. Ashley Beck
33. Jamie Roberts
34. Liam Williams/Lee Byrne
35. Eli Walker

606,

I would start with Lydiate if he's fit and have Owens and Shingler on the bench on bench

That backline has no passing ability or any spark whatsoever. Even the scrum half doesn't have a pass.

I'd play Bevington at loosehead but otherwise agree with the pack. Backline would be:

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. George North
13. Jon Davies
12. Ashley Beck
11. Eli Walker
10. James Hook
9. Mike Phillips

Walkers defence is terrible, and not selecting Biggar at 10 would be a huge mistake.

I would start Beck if he had shown any of last seasons form this year, but currently he is being outplayed by Andrew Bishop at the O's.

I forgot about Bevington, he would certainly make the squad, or even the 23 on current form.

Phillips may not be the best passer, but he really is the only option at SH at the moment - he also tends to play well against Ireland.

Agree Phillips is best of a bad bunch at the moment and I really don't have an answer at 9.

Williams and Davies have looked good together, Becks form is not like it was last season and his dfence is still bit suspect.

I wouldn't be unhappy to see Walker involved but if we were going to drop one of the wingers I would (at mo) rather move Halfpenny to the wing and play Byrne or Li Williams at XV.

Bevington is nowhere near our best No1 around, james and Gill are miles ahead of him in standard.

James and Gill are clearly not miles ahead of Bevington. In terms of work rate around the field bevington is ahead of both and with the immobile adam jones at tight head a balance needs to be had which gethin jenkins used to provide.

Similarly, in the backline, a balance needs to be had between picking players who are defensively strong and those who offer something different offensively.

Howley will probably go for the backline selected by wales606 but I must say it is rather uninspiring.

James is one of the best in the Aviva at the moment Bevington isn't one of the best in the Pro12 for me.

Gill admittedly is on the recovery road so time will tell if he comes back as good as he was last season.

bedfordwelsh wrote:James is one of the best in the Aviva at the moment Bevington isn't one of the best in the Pro12 for me.

Gill admittedly is on the recovery road so time will tell if he comes back as good as he was last season.

If adam Jones wasn't fit i'd probably go for james to shore up the scrum but with adam jones at 3 think we can go for someone such as bevington who offers more around the field.

Scrum,

I personally for the love of god hope we have finally got out of the habit of swapping our loose heads to cover tight.

If we hadn't kept doing this for the past few seasons we might have had an experienced back up to Jones, as it is Andrews (yes I know) and Lee have shown up well so if Jones gets injured then lets stick with these guys.

Theres also Lewis Roberts but I can't see him being involved at all.

What I meant was, if adam jones is injured then pick scott andrews or samson lee at tighthead but paul james at loose head instead of bevington to shore up the scrum.

Ah sorry thought you meant swap him over.

I agree that if Adam is fit then we can maybe allow ourselves the luxury of a 'looser' loosehead so to speak as we did with Gethin but first and foremost a props job is to scrummage.

In that instance James is by far our best scrummager.

Is Craig Mitchell fit? He is our second best THP.

wales606 wrote:Is Craig Mitchell fit? He is our second best THP.

606,

Is he that good, he never really convinced me and has had bad run of injuries.

Surely Wales should be Looking towards 2015 rugby world cup, when choosing players for the 6ns.

Mike Phillips? I dont know how old Phillips is, but will he be around for 2015 rugby world cup.

Also it is nice to see wales606 (Drop) Sam Warburton to the bench. Something that i dont think Howely will do to be honest. A player who plays for their country should surely be the( best player in that position) and should also be in the form of his life.

A few things. Gill and Bevington should play, but Jenkins will. Williams and Davies in the centre together means that your wingers are only going to be used defensively as they'll never get a pass. Hook and Byrne? Depressingly I think they are likely to be there. Patchell isn't up to it, then neither is Priestland!

Glas,

I can't see Byrne being involved as long as Halfpenny and li Williams are fit, after all he didn't feature in the AI's and has since had nasty back injury.

Agree (worringly) over Hook and Jenkins though I think James is now considered our 1st choice L/Head.

Byrne has been in exceptionally good form until his injury, Halfpenny is injured and Liam Williams has played well while his team have not been firing.

I would say Liam Williams is a good option and Halfpenny maybe plays wing.

maes, a lot of players since moving to France have been playing better than they did when playing at home.

But in all honesty what chances do the over seas Welsh players have of getting in to the Welsh team for the 6ns?

I dont think there chances are any different are they.

We have had players playing abroad for years and they still play for Wales. If you watched any of the Autumn internationals you would have seen a number of Foreign based Welsh players playing in all the Internationals.

majesticimperialman wrote:maes, a lot of players since moving to France have been playing better than they did when playing at home.

But in all honesty what chances do the over seas Welsh players have of getting in to the Welsh team for the 6ns?

Byrne aside all of the other French based players were involved during the AIs so I see no reason why they wont be come the 6 Nations if all fit etc.

Again our only likely issues are the PRL's reluctance to release players unless they are forced too.

maestegmafia wrote:Again our only likely issues are the PRL's reluctance to release players unless they are forced too.

FFS. Again? Really?

1.James
2.Hibbard
3.Jones
4.Davies
5.Evans
6.Lydiate
7.Warburton - Welsh game plan is based around defence and Warbs is great in that regard
8.Faletau

9.Phillips - Best of a lack of options
10.Biggar - Both him and Hooks deserve a chance on club form IMO

11.North
12.Roberts - Needs to find form desperately but offers more than the other options when he finds it
13.Davies
14.Cuthbert
15.Halfpenny

16.Rees
17.Jenkins
18.Gill
19.R Jones
20.Tipuric - Both him and Jones deserve to be in the squad atm
21.Knoyle
22.Hook
23.Williams

I know that's harsh on AWJ but I like locks who do the basics of their job well which Davies and Evans are better for. Roberts will be a unpopular selection as well but he offers more than Williams/Beck when on form IMO so I'd give him a chance to find it.

KC

Do you think we can get away without having a specialist lock on the bench.

I agree Ryan and Tips both deserve to be there. Tips is vying for Warburtons place, Jones is an awesome super sub.

It's a tough call, that I guess depends solely on whether we can or can't carry a specialist lock on the bench.

If we don't we leave ourselves vulnerable to somebody doing a job on one of our second rows, say early in a match, so far offside the ref doesn't see it, say by a swinging arm from behind...

Maes

Risky I know but when choosing the starters Evans should be nailed on and after that the best player to complement him by far is Davies with a bit of aggression and grunt. When I came to the bench I just couldn't leave Tips or R Jones out so AWJ gave way. Not a risk I'd expect to see Howley take with pressure on him though.

If you used a different game plan based more around attack than defence I'd probably start Tipuric in place of Warbs (hurts to say as I'm a fan of him) then get both Jones' on the bench. I can't see Howley having the stones to change the game plan when Gatland's away though.

At the moment the problem stems from who is going to be the 10/12/13 axis. With no clear cut 10 in the coaches favour and Roberts dire form our midfield is shorn of its attacking strength. Im still an advocate of playing a second playmaker at 12 and a crashball at 13. I think the welsh backs play better with that style of player. If only we could find one somewhere

Adam Hughes?

Good call I think many people would like to see Hughes get a go.

Not on current form I don't think. Bishop is playing well at 13 - but really we have to stick with Roberts, Williams, Davies and Beck.

Not on current form I don't think. Bishop is playing well at 13 - but really we have to stick with Roberts, Williams, Davies and Beck.

I agree. Roberts is being overly used I think and really needs to be used as a decoy more often, have North and Cuthbert running on the outside of him. Roberts will attract at least 2 defenders allow space for either of those on the outside but we just love a crash ball don't we.

I really like Beck, such a classy player and him and Davies could be an excellent centre pairing if they continue their good form. Would like to see that centre pairing for the 6N.

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Davies
5. Evans
6. Shingler
7. Tupuric
8. Jones

9. Davies
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Beck
13. JD2
14. Cuthebert
15. 1/2p

16. Gill
17. Owens
18. Andrews
19. King
20. Warburton
21. Webb
22. Hook
23. L.Williams

Think there's plenty of athletic players there who can adopt a classic Welsh running game, with a nice balance of runners and people who can take it up the middle. It won't be anywhere near the side probably but I think this side is the one to take us forward into the next world cup as many of these with the exception of a few will be in their prime come 2015.

Liam,

As much as I like look of that team there is no way on earth that we will field a team/squad without the likes of Jenkins, Faletau, Lydiate (if fit), Phillips, Roberts etc

Liam wrote:I agree. Roberts is being overly used I think and really needs to be used as a decoy more often, have North and Cuthbert running on the outside of him. Roberts will attract at least 2 defenders allow space for either of those on the outside but we just love a crash ball don't we.

I really like Beck, such a classy player and him and Davies could be an excellent centre pairing if they continue their good form. Would like to see that centre pairing for the 6N.

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Davies
5. Evans
6. Shingler
7. Tupuric
8. Jones

9. Davies
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Beck
13. JD2
14. Cuthebert
15. 1/2p

16. Gill
17. Owens
18. Andrews
19. King
20. Warburton
21. Webb
22. Hook
23. L.Williams

Think there's plenty of athletic players there who can adopt a classic Welsh running game, with a nice balance of runners and people who can take it up the middle. It won't be anywhere near the side probably but I think this side is the one to take us forward into the next world cup as many of these with the exception of a few will be in their prime come 2015.

I go along with your team 100% taking into account injuries like Lydiate, AWJ and Chareteris, I would not pick Roberts, he seems to make hinself available just before the AI and 6N.

And again the reserve scrumhalf dilemma arises. Webb is in poor form though probably due to lack of game time as Khan is renuvenated and showing great form.

Whilst Hughes is talented surely your centre pairing will come from Davies, Beck, Williams and Roberts. Not really a set of players to complain about selecting from; Roberts and Williams will re-discover form with time as they're both quality players.

12.Beck 13.Davies would be great to see but I couldn't see Howley plumping for it with Gatland not around. If we're honest you don't really need another crash ball runner with North/Cuthbert on the wings. Beck/Davies would add some innovation that the Welsh midfield desperately needs at the moment (so does England's to that point).

I agree KC though many think Beck has defensive frailties.

Certainly a creative partnership with those two

maes - In honesty I haven't seen enough of Beck to really analyse his defensive game. From what I have seen he looks the sort of player who can get the most out of JDv2,North,Cuthbert and Halfpenny with his distribution. To play him there'd have to be a change in Wales' game plan however as for the last few years it's been built around a huge defensive game and being fitter than the opposition. Something that suits Roberts much more than Beck.

In dropping Roberts you're always going to lose some defensive solidity though. For all the complaints about him being one dimensional in attack (partly game plan surely) I've never seen him be poor in defence. He's just as strong as Barritt for in defence I'd say but even out of form offers more going forward.

With Warburton and Lydiate two of the best defenders in the game available in the pack Wales' should be more than able to pick someone like Beck if Howley has the stones to change the game plan.

Good points KC, it would be wonderful to see Wales approach the game with the conviction of a Brazilian football teams exuberance for skilled attack.

Hook left the pitch during the first half of Perpignan's 46-13 Top 14 defeat to Toulon over the weekend.

It could be a double blow for the Catalan giants, who also lost Guilhem Guirado to injury in Sunday's defeat.

Hook underwent scans on Monday and is waiting upon the results which will determine his involvement in the next rounds of Top 14 and Amlin Challenge Cup action.

WALES are set to receive a huge boost ahead of the Six Nations as it emerged inspirational flanker Dan Lydiate may be fit for the start of the tournament after all.



Read more: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/01/01/wales-set-for-injury-boost-as-dan-lydiate-targets-six-nations-return-91466-32529026/#ixzz2GliQsSip

TBH if we're picking on form then Knoyle or Lloyd Williams won't be near the squad. I'm worried about that centre partnership aswell, the lack of passing and being able to pass. I'd go with Beck, Davies. Outside half, Hook and Priestland injured, and I'd rather not see Hook anyway. I really do think on this occassion we need Stephen Jones back for the tournament.

Morgannwg wrote:TBH if we're picking on form then Knoyle or Lloyd Williams won't be near the squad. I'm worried about that centre partnership aswell, the lack of passing and being able to pass. I'd go with Beck, Davies. Outside half, Hook and Priestland injured, and I'd rather not see Hook anyway. I really do think on this occassion we need Stephen Jones back for the tournament.

Id rather see Patchell or Biggar rewarded for their good form than ring in Wellies.

Scrum half back up I think will be a tough call as the usual three players that have been in understudy to Mike phillips are not playing. Maybe Jon Evans, tom Habberfield or Rhodri Williams will get called up?

1. P James
2. R Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Ian Evans
5. B Davies
6. Lydiate
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. R. Rees (is he injured? Im having a blank moment)
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Beck
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gill
17. Owens
18. Andrews
19. R Jones
20. Warburton
21. Phillips
22. Patchell
23. Li Williams

Of course, this is fingers crossed Lydiate & Ian Evans make good comebacks and are showing average form (for them) at least.

Webb has gone backwards at an alarming rate, I was hoping he'd be the one to really push on this season, never been too inspired by Lloyd Williams/Knoyle. Jon Evans is steady at rabo level. Selecting Rees shows how underwhelmed I am by our options.

Tipuric deserves a start.

Biggar. who else? Patchell on the bench, talk about baptism of fire for these guys, no experience to really fall back on, unless we can coax the count back into action for 1 last time.

Scott Williams suffers with the lack of peripheral vision I'd expect from a blues centre, talk about tunnel syndrome, thats his real downfall, sort that out and hes in the starting 12 shirt for me.

R Jones has to cover lock, he may not be a natural lock, but would you rather have him come on into the pressure of a tight international game or James King/Lou Reed?

Warbs makes the bench as he can cover 6,7 and R Jones can always come on for a back rower (hoping both locks make the 80).

fire away.

maestegmafia wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:TBH if we're picking on form then Knoyle or Lloyd Williams won't be near the squad. I'm worried about that centre partnership aswell, the lack of passing and being able to pass. I'd go with Beck, Davies. Outside half, Hook and Priestland injured, and I'd rather not see Hook anyway. I really do think on this occassion we need Stephen Jones back for the tournament.

Id rather see Patchell or Biggar rewarded for their good form than ring in Wellies.

Scrum half back up I think will be a tough call as the usual three players that have been in understudy to Mike phillips are not playing. Maybe Jon Evans, tom Habberfield or Rhodri Williams will get called up?

Too early for Patchell, imo. I just don't want to see another promising young player rushed in. Sometimes it pays off and other times it doesn't. If we harbour ambitions of winning the 6 Nations again then our fly-halves should be Biggar and Jones. Hook will be fit by then so they'll probably bring him in as back-up. I'd prefer somebody like Tovey as back-up. He's been in the squad before and Hook is just garbage.

Yes all three of those guys are better than Knoyle and L.Williams. It would probably be more sensible to look at guys like Rees, Roberts and Davies I reckon.

Morgannwg wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:TBH if we're picking on form then Knoyle or Lloyd Williams won't be near the squad. I'm worried about that centre partnership aswell, the lack of passing and being able to pass. I'd go with Beck, Davies. Outside half, Hook and Priestland injured, and I'd rather not see Hook anyway. I really do think on this occassion we need Stephen Jones back for the tournament.

Id rather see Patchell or Biggar rewarded for their good form than ring in Wellies.

Scrum half back up I think will be a tough call as the usual three players that have been in understudy to Mike phillips are not playing. Maybe Jon Evans, tom Habberfield or Rhodri Williams will get called up?

Too early for Patchell, imo. I just don't want to see another promising young player rushed in. Sometimes it pays off and other times it doesn't. If we harbour ambitions of winning the 6 Nations again then our fly-halves should be Biggar and Jones. Hook will be fit by then so they'll probably bring him in as back-up. I'd prefer somebody like Tovey as back-up. He's been in the squad before and Hook is just garbage.

Yes all three of those guys are better than Knoyle and L.Williams. It would probably be more sensible to look at guys like Rees, Roberts and Davies I reckon.

It would be early for Patchell I don't think he has had ten games of senior rugby yet for the Blues. Tovey has hardly played flyhalf because Patchell's form has been so good. Wouldn't discard Tovey though, cracking player at 10 and 15.

Biggar is front runner, I don't want us to go back to Stephen Jones unless injury really forces too, he hasn't played much rugby this season. Looking to the future would be a positive move.

Why do think Rees and Roberts have been left out previously?

I think it is because they don't meet the grade. I don't think either are any better than Knoyle, Williams or Webb.

Can't believe again people are calling Hook garbage. He's having a good season in France playing week in week out at 10, something he hasn't done since his early years. He hasn't been given a chance at 10 since 2009, ironically when he was playing superbly, as he did throughout 2008.

Wales and the O's messed him around by playing him everywhere apart from the forwards. I would go with Biggar as starting 10 but Hook must be on the bench. Still one of the few players who can change a game in an instant and by far our most talented player.

I also don't want Phillips anywhere near the squad. He's been awful all year for club and country, you can only rely on past performances until it catches up on you. Need to give game time to Davies, Evans and even Webb I believe. Phillips for all his physical work around the breakdown, costs Wales dearly when we're on the front foot, as his distribution is quite frankly appalling for an intl SH. Its one of the main reasons why we just couldn't get on the front foot in the AI imo.

From an outside perspective I'd say the backline depends on the game-plan. If Howley sticks with a game-plan based around huge defence, power and being fitter than the opposition Roberts/Phillips/Warburton will probably start with Biggar at FH.

From a rugby fans perspective, rather than an England fan , I'd love to see Wales play a more attacking game as I think it would suit them much better. It doesn't matter how big North/Cuthbert are if they are running in space rather than through heavy traffic they'll probably get further - though Howley seems to question this. I'd love to see Wales go with:

9.The main problem position with Phillips struggling
10.Hook
11.North
12.Beck - If Roberts finds form he suits an attacking game well, could be used as a decoy more from first phase ball though.
13.Davies
14.Cuthbert
15.Halfpenny

To be honest I haven't seen enough of Knoyle,Webb,Williams and Davies to choose between them. That backline could make much better use of North/Cuthbert outwide IMO.

It matters not what we think, who is on form or who is struggling at their region. I will guarantee that unless they are injured Gatland will pick Phillips at 9, Roberts and Davies at centre, North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny at back three.

He will also have Warburton start at 7 with Faletau anf Lydiate if fit. Jones will be on the bench or start at 6. Biggar will start only because Priestland is injured.

I'll place all my money on the above. Gatland is so predictable. Guaranteed.