Wales team changes for the 6Ns

First topic message reminder :

At present, only the Ospreys are showing any regional form - and it is important that Howley makes changes to the team and finally drops some of the off form players who have failed to improve their form with their regions

Wales will also have to cope with a lot of injuries - AWJ and Luke Charteris are out and Ian Evans, Leigh Halfpeny, Jamie Roberts and Dan Lydiate have yet to return to action.

We have to start picking form players

1. Paul James/Rhys Gill
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Ian Evans
6. Ryan Jones
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Matthew Rees
17. Rhys Gill/Paul James
18. Craig Mitchell? (Scott Andrews)
19. James King
20. Sam Warburton
21. Tavis Knoyle
22. James Hook
23. Lee Byrne/Liam Williams


24. Gethin Jenkins
25. Samson Lee
26. Ken Owens
27. Lou Reed
28. Dan Lydiate
29. Aaron Shingler
30. Gareth Davies
31. Rhys Patchell
32. Ashley Beck
33. Jamie Roberts
34. Liam Williams/Lee Byrne
35. Eli Walker

Won't matter who Wales pick as they are going to lose when England play them.

Morgannwg wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

He's not the only one. I think i heard before North played most of his junior rugby there, he also cuts the line at centre frequently... Could be a great move, most of our centres look better as inside centres, despite JD2 converting very well to 13.

I honestly don't see the point. Jon Davies has been great for us at outside centre, he's shown he can play there at Test level. North hasn't. Why take the risk when the incumbent is playing perfectly well?

My centre pairing would be Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. I think Adam Hughes is a cracking little player but he's hardly played this season.

Scott can't pass. The only time he has looked good is against weak opposition or coming off the bench. JR gets slated for it but he is actually a good ball distributor. His quick touches and offloads don't go flying into touch the way SW's would. Roberts and Beck at 12 for me, but Beck has an injury set back. Roberts could play himself back into contention in the coming weeks. Back-row is probaly a more hotly contested area.

Bar his one shocker pass against Munster (which wasn't entirely his fault) he actually had a pretty good comeback - he helped set up one try, made a class dummy and break to almost set up another (which he messed up) and put in a hell of a shift in defence. Not back considering he has been out for months.

He also didn't get injured after 20 minutes, which is a miracle in itself these days, especially with the Blues

Was that the forward pass? Yeah I agree, it could have went a second earlier and not been forward, and WIlliams could have been in for his 2nd try. I thought his comeback was good too. Apart from that pass and being bumped off by Stander, because it was first game back we can forgive him. His defence is always good. I watched the 2009 Lions tour on ESPN a couple nights ago. His form was pretty sensational, would love if he could recapture that. With that said he was playing behind one of the best Lions packs ever fielded.

wales606 if all our back-rowers become fit there is a lot of combo's we could play if picking from Navidi, Warbs, Tips, Jones, Lydiate, Faletau, Evans, Shingler, (Turnbull or McCusker? Or neither).

In fairness, Owen Williams (who had a shocker apart from his try and almost another) was FAR too flat. Roberts looked to him, then wasn't sure whether to smash the FB himself or make the risky flat offload because Williams was so far up. He hesitated for a split second too long and ended up firing the pass far forward. Although if he had gone on his own and not scored, we would all be bemoaning him not passing.

Although, he is still a complete waste of money and more often than not, a liability at the Blues :/. Hopefully he will play more like he did against Munster in his last season at the Blues and with Lions' places up for grabs.

I would doubt we would throw in a new cap (Navidi, Evans) against Ireland, although Navidi is certainly good enough. Turnball and McCucker do not deserve to be in the welsh squad. So for the 6 spot there is Lydiate, Jones, Shingler and perhaps Warbs. I would move Ryan to the second row even if Ian Evans is fit (to play alongside Evans with Davies on the bench), therefore unless Lydiate recovers and gets some gametime (which seems unlikely, I would wait a bit and play him in the following games), if I were selecting, it would be Shingler or Warbs to play 6.

I think Warbs will play 7, and unless Lydiate is fit, I think Ryan will play 6 and we will be stuck with a poor second row :/

If we just consider players who are fit now and playing then I would go for:

James
Hibbard
A Jones
Reed
Davies
R Jones
Faletau
Tipuric (I know it will be Warbs)

Phillips (is there any real other alternative)
Biggar

Halfpenny
Roberts
JD
Cuthbert

Williams

I think the full squad I would pick would be:

Forwards (20)

props (6) -: G Jenkins, R Bevington, P James, A Jones, S Andrews, R Gill
(Reserve list -: S Lee, R Jones)

hookers (3) -: R Hibbard, K Owens, M Rees
(Reserve list -: K Myhil)

locks (4) -: B Davies, L Reed, I Evans, L Peers
(Reserve list -: J King, R Kelly)

backrow (7) -: D Lydiate, R Jones, A Shingler, J Tipuric, S Warburton, J Navidi, T Faletau
(Reserve list -: J Turnbull, A Petorious)


Backs (15)

Scrum Half (3) -: M Phillips, T Knoyle, L Williams
(Reserve list -: G Davies)

Fly Half (3) -: D Biggar, J Hook, R Patchell
(Reserve list -: M Morgan)

Centre (4) -: J Roberts, J Davies, S Williams, A Beck
(Reserve list -: A Bishop)

Back three (5) -: G North, A Cuthbert, L Halfpenny, L Williams, R Fussell
(Reserve list -: E Walker, H Robinson)

SS,

I liked look of that all the way until I got to Fussell, I hope he isn't anywhere near the squad.

Byrne or Prydie should be in ahead of him and I hope Prydie gets nod over Robinson.

Fussell?????

We dont even want him in the team at the Ospreys...!

Otherwise your pretty spot on.

I would rank Baldwin higher than Myhill as a hooker

Nah I don't rate Fuessll as a fb. He's decent but that's it. Not anywhere near intl standard. Like others, I hope Prydie get's a well deserved call up.

Nah I don't rate Fuessll as a fb. He's decent but that's it. Not anywhere near intl standard. Like others, I hope Prydie get's a well deserved call up.

Equally, Lloyd Williams should be nowhere near the Blues team, let alone Wales.

Why not pick a team full of players who are full of (justified) confidence.
Start at the back with Lee Byrne.
Do you think it's harder to nail down the starting spot at the Scarlets, or Clermont? I like Liam Williams, he gives 100%, but didn't be knock on 4 or 5 balls against New Zealand?
We're always hearing 'if they're good enough, they're old enough', in Byrne's case it's 'if you're good enough, you're young enough'. Lets stop messing around, and get some solidity at the back for a start.

14. Leigh Halfpenny - looks like a winger, plays like a winger, IS a winger.
13. JD2, classy, pace, nice kicking game, physical.
12. Tough one, cases for three players.
11. Cuthbert - he finishes, end of story.
10. Biggar - treated like sh1t by Wales management for 3 years, his time to shine. Can't wait to see him pull the strings.
9. Mike Phillips - good against Ireland
8. Faletau - needs to protect the ball!!!
7. Tipuric - it's because he's the best
6. Ryan Jones
5. Ian Evans - if fit
4. Bradley Davies/James King (seriously)
3. Adam Jones
2. Hibbard
1. Paul James

Ryan Bevington
Matthew Rees - only on for injury
Scott Andrews
Bradley Davies
Sam Warburton
Gareth Davies
Stephen Jones
Eli walker

maestegmafia wrote:Fussell?????

We dont even want him in the team at the Ospreys...!

Otherwise your pretty spot on.

I would rank Baldwin higher than Myhill as a hooker

Most Ospreys supporters I know think he's one of the first names on the team sheet on current form. You're baffling.

But you haven't got Stephen Jones or Shane Williams there to make Byrne look good.

Yes, but with Priestland out, we need to select Byrne or we won't have anyone to kick penalties dead.

Oh yes, and our chances of yellow and red cards in the backs would be fundamentally compromised.

Higher_Ground wrote:Why not pick a team full of players who are full of (justified) confidence.
Start at the back with Lee Byrne.
Do you think it's harder to nail down the starting spot at the Scarlets, or Clermont?

Another way of looking at it is to ask whether it's easier to play well and look good with teammates like Byrne has at Clermont, or with teammates like Williams has at the Scarlets.

(For the record, I don't think Byrne should be out of the reckoning.)

Too much common sense Lucky, go and stand in the corner with one foot in the bin.

Already there.

Just a quick note , today is day 4 of voting for v2's greatest-of-all-time, and Gareth Edwards is in today's list of contenders to be voted on:
https://www.606v2.com/t39240-v2-goat-round-1-group-4#1774504



Now returning you to your regular scheduled program ...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote:Why not pick a team full of players who are full of (justified) confidence.
Start at the back with Lee Byrne.
Do you think it's harder to nail down the starting spot at the Scarlets, or Clermont?

Another way of looking at it is to ask whether it's easier to play well and look good with teammates like Byrne has at Clermont, or with teammates like Williams has at the Scarlets.

(For the record, I don't think Byrne should be out of the reckoning.)

That's definitely true, to a certain extent, but having great team mates doesn't make you any better under the high ball, or teach you how/when to hit the line.
I think Williams has all the raw potential to be a great fullback, but I think we reall need to see some victories early on in the 6N to stop the rot, and I think Byrne offers more stability, but still has an attacking threat.
Y'know, he won't get selected anyway, but talking about it beats working.

At the moment we have three candidates at full back: Halfpenny, a winger masquerading as a full back; Byrne, a proper coming-into-the-line full back; and Williams, a running-the-ball-back, counter-attacking fullback. I'd be inclined to go with Williams because when he does run the ball back, he's more likely to bring others into the game (Halfpenny runs until he falls over or is tackled, Byrne more often than not kicks the ball). My second choice would be Byrne.

Is Byrne back from injury yet? That said I still don't think he will be selected even if he is.

I think the feeling is that he would be back in time, if selected. Which he won't be. At least Howley has an excuse not to pick him now.
Before the Australia/NZ game, I selected Williams at fullback, but (few Great moments aside), he was a little unsteady, and I haven't seen him with much ball in hand lately, which is why I'm edging towards Byrne. I'd be happy with Williams though. I think it's time we put an end to the Halfpenny experiment though, yes, he does a better job than Hook there, but it's not instinctive to him.

bedfordwelsh wrote:SS,

I liked look of that all the way until I got to Fussell, I hope he isn't anywhere near the squad.

Byrne or Prydie should be in ahead of him and I hope Prydie gets nod over Robinson.

I think Fuss deserves his chance, he is a very good attacking option. He has a ballence game and covers wing and fullback well. I have heard a load of Ospreys fans claiming that he made a huge impact off the bench against Zebre, especially in attack.

That said I did totally forget about Prydie (god knows how), so I would have him in the squad instead of Fussel and then have Fuss drop to the reserves instead of Robinson.

As for Byrne I appreciate he is still a class act, but I think with the injury etc it will take time for him to be at full fitness/form, also in my head he falls into a similar catagory as Henson, so I wouldn't put him in a team based on that.

Does anyone know when the Welsh swuad is announced ? I'm guessing after the Heino games this weekend ?

munkian wrote:Does anyone know when the Welsh swuad is announced ? I'm guessing after the Heino games this weekend ?

That would seem a logical timescale any later is cutting it bit fine I reckon.

How is the injury roster looking? North is out for the first game or two, anyone else in particular that will be missed?

nobbled wrote:How is the injury roster looking? North is out for the first game or two, anyone else in particular that will be missed?

North may even be fit for ths weekend, or thats how the news is sounding down here.
AWJ says he is coming along on time, and maybe a bit faster so should be around for the last two or three games.
Ken Owens and Matthew Rees are both supposedly ready for selection this week or next week

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think the full squad I would pick would be:

backrow (7) -: D Lydiate, R Jones, A Shingler, J Tipuric, S Warburton, J Navidi, T Faletau
(Reserve list -: J Turnbull, A Petorious)

Backs (15)

Scrum Half (3) -: M Phillips, T Knoyle, L Williams
(Reserve list -: G Davies)

Fly Half (3) -: D Biggar, J Hook, R Patchell
(Reserve list -: M Morgan)


Back three (5) -: G North, A Cuthbert, L Halfpenny, L Williams, R Fussell
(Reserve list -: E Walker, H Robinson)

Few gripes here. Turnbull and Pretorious ahead of Lewis Evans.
Knoyle and Lloyd Williams (facepalm).
I agree with Phil Davies, Patchell should play U20s and maybe Sevens rugby first. Let's face it we need Steve-o back this time.
Fussell?! Walker and Robinson over Prydie? Take off the specs pal, Fussell on the list is just insulting to people.

Before his injury, I thought Gareth Davies was looking the best prospect at SH. In the absence of anyone else in particularly good form, I'd be tempted to give him a go.

F/H has to be Biggar.

I like Liam Williams, but he is still fairly raw - promising rather than the finished article. I'd go with 1/2p, North Cuthbert as the back 3.

I like a JD2/Scott Williams centre pairing, but realistically if Roberts is fit he'll be picked, and that's not the end of the world.

For me, the front row picks itself: James, Hibbard, Jones.

If Ian Evans is fit, I'd have him with Brad in 2nd row. Tempting to include Ryan Jones, if he were in it would have to be instead of Brad.

Back row is the hardest; I wouldn't be too upset with Warbs, Lydiate, Faletau, but would want to squeeze Ryan Jones in there somehow too. Maybe we can ask the others if they'll let us play 16. Would be happy with Tips or Shingler, too. Not McCusker/Turnbull.

Morg - I have covered the Fussel thing earlier and explained why, and I can't be bothered going over old ground again.

As for Williams and Knoyle who would you have there? I can't think of many welsh scrum halves who are getting regular starts/game time. Joni Evans? I know Lloyd is not playing well, but he has a different style to Knoyle, Webb and Phillips, who are all starting to act like thugs.

I went for Patchell in the squad, but it is very unlikely he would be selected to even feature in any of the games, but the squad environment, training etc may well be good for him.

I see. Fuss just lacks the pace and physicality for international rugby. He's a good player in the league but always looks second best against the big teams in France when playing in the H-cup. Prydie's consistentcy should have been rewarded a lot sooner, hopefully this time he gets the nod. Probably not though, he plays for the wrong region to be considered.

Jon Evans, Gareth Davies, Richie Rees; those are three that are better than Knoyle and L.Williams. This has been the case all season (longer than that considering Davies' form).

I'd be very surprised to see anyone other than Phillips, Knoyle and Williams named as scrum halves. It's even worse when you consider Howley was a fine scrum half himself.

Moeg - Gareth Davies has not been playing too well this season, he has been making the same sort of mistakes that he did last season. Aled Davies was actually being given games ahead of him, and Knoyle.

I totally forgot about Richie Rees though, he has been playing far better this season than he did at the Blues.

It's the same response from you lot every time. If Davies is making the same mistakes as last season then wtf is Knoyle doing as he makes the same mistakes he has done throughout his career. He's a winger that should be playing in the premiership.

Higher_Ground wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Fussell?????

We dont even want him in the team at the Ospreys...!

Otherwise your pretty spot on.

I would rank Baldwin higher than Myhill as a hooker

Most Ospreys supporters I know think he's one of the first names on the team sheet on current form. You're baffling.

Yep. You mean 'I' instead of 'We' mm..

SS

Rees was excellent at the Blues, hardly put a foot wrong for them or Wales, he returned to the Arms park this season with a masterclass.

Not sure what Rees did, but to be ditched by Wales and the Blues for nothing something went on, you don't go from ousting Phillips for Wales to not getting games ahead of Lloyd frickin Williams overnight for nothing!!

Breadvan wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Fussell?????

We dont even want him in the team at the Ospreys...!

Otherwise your pretty spot on.

I would rank Baldwin higher than Myhill as a hooker

Most Ospreys supporters I know think he's one of the first names on the team sheet on current form. You're baffling.

Yep. You mean 'I' instead of 'We' mm..

I don't know a single Ospreys supporter that rates Fussell. He should be emergency wing cover at best. Certainly not a fullback. We need to pick Ross Jones at fullback.

Higher_Ground wrote: I like Liam Williams, he gives 100%, but didn't be knock on 4 or 5 balls against New Zealand?

How has Liam Williams gone since the NZ match at club level.
I thought he was one of the most impressive players we played all tour. Yes he knocked a couple on but he showed some maturity, instinct and skill that are rae in players that young or inexperienced.

Morgannwg wrote:It's the same response from you lot every time. If Davies is making the same mistakes as last season then wtf is Knoyle doing as he makes the same mistakes he has done throughout his career. He's a winger that should be playing in the premiership.

Ditto really, anyone even mention Tavis and straight away your in there to point out how poor a player he is. Gareth Davies is a very good scrum half and offers a different style to Tav, however he really is not getting the game time at the Scarlets at the moment, and has even been spending time on the bench with Aled Davies starting games, so I honetly don't see him having any realistic hope of getting near the welsh squad this season, unless the Welsh squad take both him and KNoyle, which is exceptionally unlikely.

Why exceptionally? Is Gatland telling Easterby what to do?

Taylorman wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote: I like Liam Williams, he gives 100%, but didn't be knock on 4 or 5 balls against New Zealand?

How has Liam Williams gone since the NZ match at club level.
I thought he was one of the most impressive players we played all tour. Yes he knocked a couple on but he showed some maturity, instinct and skill that are rae in players that young or inexperienced.

The turnovers in defence must count for him though...?

It was his first full Test start though, wasn't it? And against the best of the best.

Glas a du wrote:Why exceptionally? Is Gatland telling Easterby what to do?

Exceptionally because in order for Cawdor and Tavis to be selected it would mean at least one of the following

a) Howley over looking current (well AI) squad memebers at scrum half
b) Howley over looking playes who are currently being selected as first choice at their regions and clubs
c) Howley deciding to take select more than three scrum halves in the squad.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It was his first full Test start though, wasn't it? And against the best of the best.

And a few days before they all caught that stomach bug...!!!

When is the Wales squad announced?

bluestonevedder wrote:When is the Wales squad announced?

I would assume it will be mid-next week, and then go to train etc the Monday after the final HEC group matches.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:It's the same response from you lot every time. If Davies is making the same mistakes as last season then wtf is Knoyle doing as he makes the same mistakes he has done throughout his career. He's a winger that should be playing in the premiership.

Ditto really, anyone even mention Tavis and straight away your in there to point out how poor a player he is. Gareth Davies is a very good scrum half and offers a different style to Tav, however he really is not getting the game time at the Scarlets at the moment, and has even been spending time on the bench with Aled Davies starting games, so I honetly don't see him having any realistic hope of getting near the welsh squad this season, unless the Welsh squad take both him and KNoyle, which is exceptionally unlikely.

Because I speak the truth , and nobody else's opinion matters! It wouldn't be the first time they selected a bench warmer for the Wales squad. And again I see Scarlets start with the worst scrum half. Maybe they didn't see his other shocking game against Ulster.

Morgannwg wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:It's the same response from you lot every time. If Davies is making the same mistakes as last season then wtf is Knoyle doing as he makes the same mistakes he has done throughout his career. He's a winger that should be playing in the premiership.

Ditto really, anyone even mention Tavis and straight away your in there to point out how poor a player he is. Gareth Davies is a very good scrum half and offers a different style to Tav, however he really is not getting the game time at the Scarlets at the moment, and has even been spending time on the bench with Aled Davies starting games, so I honetly don't see him having any realistic hope of getting near the welsh squad this season, unless the Welsh squad take both him and KNoyle, which is exceptionally unlikely.

Because I speak the truth , and nobody else's opinion matters! It wouldn't be the first time they selected a bench warmer for the Wales squad. And again I see Scarlets start with the worst scrum half. Maybe they didn't see his other shocking game against Ulster.

I am with SS, I think you are very wrong about Knoyle, but I am not going to waste a thread debating a difference of opinion we have. Your opinions are always an interesting read.

We know you rate Knoyle, you make it quite clear. I don't think there is any player in the squad you don't rate.

Morgannwg wrote:We know you rate Knoyle, you make it quite clear. I don't think there is any player in the squad you don't rate.

Thats a very provocative whilst equally pathetic thing to write...!