Wales team changes for the 6Ns

First topic message reminder :

At present, only the Ospreys are showing any regional form - and it is important that Howley makes changes to the team and finally drops some of the off form players who have failed to improve their form with their regions

Wales will also have to cope with a lot of injuries - AWJ and Luke Charteris are out and Ian Evans, Leigh Halfpeny, Jamie Roberts and Dan Lydiate have yet to return to action.

We have to start picking form players

1. Paul James/Rhys Gill
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Ian Evans
6. Ryan Jones
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Matthew Rees
17. Rhys Gill/Paul James
18. Craig Mitchell? (Scott Andrews)
19. James King
20. Sam Warburton
21. Tavis Knoyle
22. James Hook
23. Lee Byrne/Liam Williams


24. Gethin Jenkins
25. Samson Lee
26. Ken Owens
27. Lou Reed
28. Dan Lydiate
29. Aaron Shingler
30. Gareth Davies
31. Rhys Patchell
32. Ashley Beck
33. Jamie Roberts
34. Liam Williams/Lee Byrne
35. Eli Walker

Hmmm, yes, you're right. Sad innit?

Glas a du wrote:Hmmm, yes, you're right. Sad innit?

Yup.

More bad news, Beck will be struggling to make the start of the 6N. We don't half have some bad luck with injuries eh?

Good chance for Hughes now to get a look in. Roberts is back for the Blues (I know, Roberts in a Blues shirt) this weekend so hopefully he can actually put a bit of effort in and get some much needed game time under his belt.

Still not convinced by Beck and also not sure he would have played much more than a bit part as IMO is behind Roberts Davies and Williams

bedfordwelsh wrote:Still not convinced by Beck and also not sure he would have played much more than a bit part as IMO is behind Roberts Davies and Williams

I agree he is definitely fourth choice but if given a few more opportunities he could prove the man we need.

He is great at making a gap, slipping a pass out of the tackle and has scored a few tries to.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Still not convinced by Beck and also not sure he would have played much more than a bit part as IMO is behind Roberts Davies and Williams

I agree he is definitely fourth choice but if given a few more opportunities he could prove the man we need.

He is great at making a gap, slipping a pass out of the tackle and has scored a few tries to.

Henson is back for the Exiles this weekend, as much as I like Beck I think calling the orange one into the squad may be worth a look given our injuries and Roberts' dire form.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Still not convinced by Beck and also not sure he would have played much more than a bit part as IMO is behind Roberts Davies and Williams

I agree he is definitely fourth choice but if given a few more opportunities he could prove the man we need.

He is great at making a gap, slipping a pass out of the tackle and has scored a few tries to.

Henson is back for the Exiles this weekend, as much as I like Beck I think calling the orange one into the squad may be worth a look given our injuries and Roberts' dire form.

Will be interesting to see who looks more accomplished between Henson and Roberts. Henson hasn't played centre at all at London welsh

Henson with Wales is surely in the same position as Cipriani is with England. If they're struggling to get into their clubs starting line-up it's a bit of kick in the teeth to the other options if they're selected isn't it?

king_carlos wrote:Henson with Wales is surely in the same position as Cipriani is with England. If they're struggling to get into their clubs starting line-up it's a bit of kick in the teeth to the other options if they're selected isn't it?

Hensons been injured. Cipriani hasn't.

maestegmafia wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Henson with Wales is surely in the same position as Cipriani is with England. If they're struggling to get into their clubs starting line-up it's a bit of kick in the teeth to the other options if they're selected isn't it?

Hensons been injured. Cipriani hasn't.

KC, whilst im with you 100%, its not exactly the most outlandish statement when it comes to Henson and the current welsh coaches. They've got history of picking him in squads for no real reason, other than the fact he's henson.

Comfort wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Henson with Wales is surely in the same position as Cipriani is with England. If they're struggling to get into their clubs starting line-up it's a bit of kick in the teeth to the other options if they're selected isn't it?

Hensons been injured. Cipriani hasn't.

KC, whilst im with you 100%, its not exactly the most outlandish statement when it comes to Henson and the current welsh coaches. They've got history of picking him in squads for no real reason, other than the fact he's henson.

I think if he hadn't of broken his wrist pre RWC he would have been in the squad, he was looking very good until that injury. The guy is a class player when fit. Lyn Jones reckons he is in very good shape now.

When fit, I'd put Henson straight into any Welsh team, he's that good. Injuries have ravaged his career and of course his brain cells if anything. It was such a shame he injured his wrist before the RWC because I was there at the game against England and in that 30 mins he was Wales' best player.

His ability to straighten the line and bring people into the game is world class, he could bring out the best in Roberts/JD2/North/Cuthbert if you ask me.

If he's fit, get him the squad that's what I say. No coincidence he's won 2 GS when returned and has a positive win/loss ratio.

Lets hope Lyn Jones is right about Henson's form and he plays well this weekend. I think it would be a long shot to see him get in the Six Nations squad but if form is good the case is unanswerable.

Unfortunately though he will be picked at flyhalf for London welsh and, in disagreement with Jones, I think his best position is inside centre.

only read the op. i just want to dive in. i will read back.

jamie roberts is a spent force. scott williams looks much more dangerous these days.

mike phillips. no. if we have to go with biggar he will really struggle with phillips' rubbish service. biggar has possibly the best SH in the world inside him at the Os. we cant take away the ferrari and give biggar a skate board-with one wheel missing...

9 - Phillips
10 - Biggar
11 - 1/2 p
12 - Foxy
13 - North
14 - Cuthbert
15 - Byrne

9. any orthodox SH from any team in wales
10. biggar
11. north
12. scott williams
13. jd2
14. cuffbutt
15 hp

would like to see more of liam williams for wales.

RubyGuby wrote:9 - Phillips
10 - Biggar
11 - 1/2 p
12 - Foxy
13 - North
14 - Cuthbert
15 - Byrne

I like your style.

dogtooth wrote:only read the op. i just want to dive in. i will read back.

jamie roberts is a spent force. scott williams looks much more dangerous these days.

mike phillips. no. if we have to go with biggar he will really struggle with phillips' rubbish service. biggar has possibly the best SH in the world inside him at the Os. we cant take away the ferrari and give biggar a skate board-with one wheel missing...

How can a 26 year old player be a spent force?

Glas a du wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:9 - Phillips
10 - Biggar
11 - 1/2 p
12 - Foxy
13 - North
14 - Cuthbert
15 - Byrne

I like your style.

That could be interesting. Would be keen to see what young North could do at outside centre, he has pace and power, but does he have the guile to set men free outside him?

I do fear with North playing centre, we'd gain nothing that we already have with our current ones. They're all capable of playing an offloading game, it's just a question of whether the coaching staff are going to permit them. I would still stick with Roberts and JD2, I think.

That could be interesting. Would be keen to see what young North could do at outside centre, he has pace and power, but does he have the guile to set men free outside him?

Run that Ireland try again when North came into the centre to release Foxy - He has guile and power - That pass was majestic - Go watch

maestegmafia wrote:

Comfort wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Henson with Wales is surely in the same position as Cipriani is with England. If they're struggling to get into their clubs starting line-up it's a bit of kick in the teeth to the other options if they're selected isn't it?

Hensons been injured. Cipriani hasn't.

KC, whilst im with you 100%, its not exactly the most outlandish statement when it comes to Henson and the current welsh coaches. They've got history of picking him in squads for no real reason, other than the fact he's henson.

I think if he hadn't of broken his wrist pre RWC he would have been in the squad, he was looking very good until that injury. The guy is a class player when fit. Lyn Jones reckons he is in very good shape now.

In fairness he's done far more to prove himself in Int rugby than Cipriani anyway - he's also done even more than Cipriani to make himself look like a **** unfortunately! If he were to find a place in the squad at the minute it would have to be a FH if he's playing there for London Welsh though surely? How bad is Becks reported injury as that could be an opening to the squad alongside JDv2, Roberts and Williams in the centre I guess. Though it'd be a real shame for Beck to miss out when so many people clearly rate him.

RubyGuby wrote:That could be interesting. Would be keen to see what young North could do at outside centre, he has pace and power, but does he have the guile to set men free outside him?

Run that Ireland try again when North came into the centre to release Foxy - He has guile and power - That pass was majestic - Go watch

I remember, that was a very classy move. JD2, North and Liam Williams work well, read each other well. Makes Cuthbert, Halfpenny and the other lads easier too.

I am sure they will enjoy a bit more ball than they have been getting from Aled Thomas.

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:9 - Phillips
10 - Biggar
11 - 1/2 p
12 - Foxy
13 - North
14 - Cuthbert
15 - Byrne

I like your style.

That could be interesting. Would be keen to see what young North could do at outside centre, he has pace and power, but does he have the guile to set men free outside him?

The incumbent isn't expected to do that so why should he be?

If its good enough for Mark Ring, it's good enough for me...

Glas a du wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:9 - Phillips
10 - Biggar
11 - 1/2 p
12 - Foxy
13 - North
14 - Cuthbert
15 - Byrne

I like your style.

That could be interesting. Would be keen to see what young North could do at outside centre, he has pace and power, but does he have the guile to set men free outside him?

The incumbent isn't expected to do that so why should he be?

If its good enough for Mark Ring, it's good enough for me...

Mark Ring was a hell of a lot more skillful with a ball than George North will ever be. That man knows his rugby too.

Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

Glas a du wrote:Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

He's not the only one. I think i heard before North played most of his junior rugby there, he also cuts the line at centre frequently... Could be a great move, most of our centres look better as inside centres, despite JD2 converting very well to 13.

maestegmafia wrote:

dogtooth wrote:only read the op. i just want to dive in. i will read back.

jamie roberts is a spent force. scott williams looks much more dangerous these days.

mike phillips. no. if we have to go with biggar he will really struggle with phillips' rubbish service. biggar has possibly the best SH in the world inside him at the Os. we cant take away the ferrari and give biggar a skate board-with one wheel missing...

How can a 26 year old player be a spent force?

maes.

its not his age that makes him a spent force. it is his sh1tness, his increasing sh1tness that suggests his best days are behind him.

maestegmafia wrote:Byrne has been in exceptionally good form until his injury, Halfpenny is injured and Liam Williams has played well while his team have not been firing.

I would say Liam Williams is a good option and Halfpenny maybe plays wing.

I like Williams his committment and bravery are to be admired but only compensate to a degree for a lack in real quality. I have doubts that he is of real international class

king_carlos wrote:Maes

Risky I know but when choosing the starters Evans should be nailed on and after that the best player to complement him by far is Davies with a bit of aggression and grunt. When I came to the bench I just couldn't leave Tips or R Jones out so AWJ gave way. Not a risk I'd expect to see Howley take with pressure on him though.

If you used a different game plan based more around attack than defence I'd probably start Tipuric in place of Warbs (hurts to say as I'm a fan of him) then get both Jones' on the bench. I can't see Howley having the stones to change the game plan when Gatland's away though.

It not so much stones as brains if you ask me

I'd actually start with Ryan and Ianto in the 2nd row and leave Bradley on the bench as cover - Bradley isn't doing enough IMO and Ryan offers a lot more

As long as our scrum isn't compromised Guby, I agree.

Glas a du wrote:As long as our scrum isn't compromised Guby, I agree.

My thoughts as well...! Ryan Jones is great in the lineout and all other facets.

With a front row of James, Hibbard and Jones the scrum should be good.

offload wrote:It matters not what we think, who is on form or who is struggling at their region. I will guarantee that unless they are injured Gatland will pick Phillips at 9, Roberts and Davies at centre, North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny at back three.

He will also have Warburton start at 7 with Faletau anf Lydiate if fit. Jones will be on the bench or start at 6. Biggar will start only because Priestland is injured.

I'll place all my money on the above. Gatland is so predictable. Guaranteed.

Spot on, we have been playing out of form or players returning from long term injuries with no game time like the Aust tour.

Yes, but a little thing like height differential in the second row, especially if exacerbating imbalance in the front row, can have a big effect.

RubyGuby wrote:I'd actually start with Ryan and Ianto in the 2nd row and leave Bradley on the bench as cover - Bradley isn't doing enough IMO and Ryan offers a lot more

I think Ryan should start at 8, Faletau keeps dropping the high ball, losing control at the back of the scrum and spills the ball when tackled, also Ryan does a lot of work in the tight, he is not a show pony.

I think Toby has been finding a bit of form of late but if starting with Jones then wouldn't be overly upset,
.

We might still need Jones at 6 unless Lydiate comes back in perfect form immediately.

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

He's not the only one. I think i heard before North played most of his junior rugby there, he also cuts the line at centre frequently... Could be a great move, most of our centres look better as inside centres, despite JD2 converting very well to 13.

I honestly don't see the point. Jon Davies has been great for us at outside centre, he's shown he can play there at Test level. North hasn't. Why take the risk when the incumbent is playing perfectly well?

My centre pairing would be Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. I think Adam Hughes is a cracking little player but he's hardly played this season.

Does anyone know when the squad's announced?

When Howley and McBride have had Roger Lewis to check their spellings.

McBride, or McBryde?

Blydi stupid Gog spelling...

Offload's already said it: if in doubt, Howley will go with the players Gatland has picked for the last season or more. I doubt we'll see form rewarded much - but you never know.

LP,

I think most form players will be in the squad but won't start if that makes sense.

Read today they not going to Spala which I think is a good move.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

He's not the only one. I think i heard before North played most of his junior rugby there, he also cuts the line at centre frequently... Could be a great move, most of our centres look better as inside centres, despite JD2 converting very well to 13.

I honestly don't see the point. Jon Davies has been great for us at outside centre, he's shown he can play there at Test level. North hasn't. Why take the risk when the incumbent is playing perfectly well?

My centre pairing would be Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. I think Adam Hughes is a cracking little player but he's hardly played this season.

Scott can't pass. The only time he has looked good is against weak opposition or coming off the bench. JR gets slated for it but he is actually a good ball distributor. His quick touches and offloads don't go flying into touch the way SW's would. Roberts and Beck at 12 for me, but Beck has an injury set back. Roberts could play himself back into contention in the coming weeks. Back-row is probaly a more hotly contested area.

I really hope that at least Hibbard, Biggar and Ryan Jones start. I could accept Warbs starting over Tipuric.

Based on Howley's recent interview he is looking at Lou Reed and BD to play in the second row - but did say he was also looking at Ryan.

If Lydiate returns I would play Ryan in the second row, or even consider Warburton/Shingler at 6 and Ryan in the second row. I don't think the Blues second row partnership is anywhere near strong enough at the moment, and Ryan Jones should definitely be on the field.

Morgannwg wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

He's not the only one. I think i heard before North played most of his junior rugby there, he also cuts the line at centre frequently... Could be a great move, most of our centres look better as inside centres, despite JD2 converting very well to 13.

I honestly don't see the point. Jon Davies has been great for us at outside centre, he's shown he can play there at Test level. North hasn't. Why take the risk when the incumbent is playing perfectly well?

My centre pairing would be Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. I think Adam Hughes is a cracking little player but he's hardly played this season.

Scott can't pass. The only time he has looked good is against weak opposition or coming off the bench. JR gets slated for it but he is actually a good ball distributor. His quick touches and offloads don't go flying into touch the way SW's would. Roberts and Beck at 12 for me, but Beck has an injury set back. Roberts could play himself back into contention in the coming weeks. Back-row is probaly a more hotly contested area.

Bar his one shocker pass against Munster (which wasn't entirely his fault) he actually had a pretty good comeback - he helped set up one try, made a class dummy and break to almost set up another (which he messed up) and put in a hell of a shift in defence. Not back considering he has been out for months.

He also didn't get injured after 20 minutes, which is a miracle in itself these days, especially with the Blues

wales606 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Yes, well, he's the one who says North is an outside centre

He's not the only one. I think i heard before North played most of his junior rugby there, he also cuts the line at centre frequently... Could be a great move, most of our centres look better as inside centres, despite JD2 converting very well to 13.

I honestly don't see the point. Jon Davies has been great for us at outside centre, he's shown he can play there at Test level. North hasn't. Why take the risk when the incumbent is playing perfectly well?

My centre pairing would be Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. I think Adam Hughes is a cracking little player but he's hardly played this season.

Scott can't pass. The only time he has looked good is against weak opposition or coming off the bench. JR gets slated for it but he is actually a good ball distributor. His quick touches and offloads don't go flying into touch the way SW's would. Roberts and Beck at 12 for me, but Beck has an injury set back. Roberts could play himself back into contention in the coming weeks. Back-row is probaly a more hotly contested area.

Bar his one shocker pass against Munster (which wasn't entirely his fault) he actually had a pretty good comeback - he helped set up one try, made a class dummy and break to almost set up another (which he messed up) and put in a hell of a shift in defence. Not back considering he has been out for months.

He also didn't get injured after 20 minutes, which is a miracle in itself these days, especially with the Blues

Was that the forward pass? Yeah I agree, it could have went a second earlier and not been forward, and WIlliams could have been in for his 2nd try. I thought his comeback was good too. Apart from that pass and being bumped off by Stander, because it was first game back we can forgive him. His defence is always good. I watched the 2009 Lions tour on ESPN a couple nights ago. His form was pretty sensational, would love if he could recapture that. With that said he was playing behind one of the best Lions packs ever fielded.

wales606 if all our back-rowers become fit there is a lot of combo's we could play if picking from Navidi, Warbs, Tips, Jones, Lydiate, Faletau, Evans, Shingler, (Turnbull or McCusker? Or neither).