India v England Second ODI, Kochi

First topic message reminder :

The second match of the five match ODI series between India and England will be played at the Jawaharlal Nehru Stadium Kochi. The match starts at 12 noon India Standard Time.
England would be quietly confident after the 9 run win in the first game. Although their bowling is a bit of a worry, all the 6 batsmen who batted in that game had a decent outing and Joe Root made a fine contirbution with the ball. Cook has, according to cricinfo, confirmed that there would be no change in that top 7. If at all there are any changes, it will be in the pace bowling department as all the seamers were expensive on the day. But unlike Steve Finn, the other 2 pacers Tim Bresnan and Jade Dernbach has had series issues of form and inconsistencies over a period of time. Stuart Meaker has the pace, Chris Woakes can bat besides offering a fast medium option.
As for India, Gautam Gambhir's 50 in the last match should see him getting a few more games, meaning Cheteshwar Pujara will have to wait for his ODI debut. There could be changes in the bowling department though. Shami Ahmed who impressed on debut might get another game either in place of Ashok Dinda or Ishant Sharma.
It's likely that we'll have another pitch all made for the batsman and it will be a massive challenge for the bowlers.
The dew shouldn't be much of a factor in Kerala, but the humidity and heet could be.

Yes a good spell of bowling by Kumar...and now Kieswetter has fallen rather softly to Ashwin.

Leaving rather a lot to Root and Patel eh ? Once again Root has looked as good as anyone but it isn't easy to get the spinners away on this. Dhoni said before the start he thought the pitch would die a bit and I think he was right.

I switched on about 20 mins ago. Disappointed to see England in so much strife. I understand Cook got a poor one, in what way?

Pleased to see Kumar do well, I think he's a yard quicker than you think and gets good nip off the wicket. He impressed me against Pakistan. Also, he seems relatively fit which is nice.

Kieswetter got out in a typical way on this wicket. Back of a length, ball stopped on him and he chipped it up.

Root has impressed me so far (kiss of death), his footwork is very precise and positive. I think he's ideally suited to the number 6 slot in tests actually.

Patel has a good chance to stake a claim now. But his running is so lazy it really annoys me. Refused such a clear 2 off a cut from Root.

Mike Selig wrote:
Root has impressed me so far (kiss of death)

Well, I got that right. Lovely piece of bowling from Jadeja it has to be said.

Jadeja strikes!. Root's gone, clean bowled. England 132-6 in the 31st.

Jadeja gets Root and things seem to be moving towards an early conclusion...

Very early , as he gets Woakes too !

And another one for Jadeja, Woakes goes, England 132-7.

Jadeja bowling well and putting the game beyond doubt. Though in truth once Kumar had gone through the top order it was always going to be a tall order for England.
3/29 off ten was a fair reward. If Cook was unlucky (ball clearly pitching outside leg ) the others were just well beaten by good balls , and with Bell out early the loss of KP and Morgan in one over pretty much decided the match.
The spinners - as Ashwin chimes in with the wicket of Tredwell - have made sure there was no revival.

Good win for India , owing much to Dhoni with the bat . One all...

Now Ashwin gets his 2nd, Tredwell goes, 135-8 England. The End is getting closer.

Now Ashwin's on a hat trick!.

Must say this has been a much better pitch than the flat monster for the first game.

Dernbach ensuring no hat trick for Ashwin.

On that last wicket of Finn, again it seems umpire Davis has got it wrong. Ashwin appealed for a catch at the wicket, Dhoni had appeled for the stumping that wasn't even considered he was given out caught behind and the replays showed no edge.

Jadeja gave away 4 runs in that last over, his 7th, and this has been the most expensive over from him today.

Patel's trying to give the innings some respectability, he's smashing Ashwin big time here.

That's it, India win by 127 runs. Has to say this has been an absolute pasting for England.
Ravindra Jadeja finishes it off, a good pickup and throw ensuring a runout.

Much more like it from England - about what I expected before the series!

This team looks v.weak despite the win the other day. Keiswetter and Dernbach in particular are mediocre beyond belief.

Good to hear that presentation session. Cook was honest, and rightly said that England should not look for excuses, I am liking him more and more as a leader. He first gained a great deal of respect asa captain when he remodelled himself as an ODI batsman. The way he delt with the Kevin Pietersen situation was brilliant, a no nonsense approach from a leader wanting to win rather than playing stupid ego games. Then he batted like Bradman on his first full tour as captain, he continues to bat well in ODIs, and looking at ways to improve the team rather than finding excuses. Well done Alastair.
MS too was brilliant, that remark on how this could be a good test wicket. Something for the fast bowler, then plenty of turn for the spinners. He has been making his point time and again, but all that we have are stubborn men like Prabir Mukharjee being celebrated.
Very down to earth from Ravindra Jadeja as well. Hope the stupid 'Sir Ravindra Jadeja' gibes would stop now. Hopefully he can take a lot of confidence today, particularly with his batting. This was the first time he really played like a number 7 batsman, playing some real big shots very effectively. Hope this is the beginning of something special for Jadeja and India.

the old batting wobbles return sadly.

trebellbobaggins wrote:the old batting wobbles return sadly.

Thankfully for India, Trebs never made an early entrance today to jinx the Indian batting. Perhaps some criticism for England's performance should go that way as well!.

yeah, was poor form from me. Too busy at work. More weekend games please India.

It was a terrific win for India. A superb team performance from all. But again India's top order failed to put a mark. Once again Dhoni proved a savior and a perfect finisher of the game. But it was nice to listen from Cook not rounding on the excuses rather accepts the fault of some bad batting and bowling in the death.. Gud luck to both for the next game in ranchi, dhoni's home town.

Good comeback win that for India, what a series this is shaping up to be. The fault simply lies with the fact that England didn't limit India to below 275 when they had them on the ropes and then didn't apply themselves when batting. This would of been a perfect situation for Trott, alas he isn't here, 1-1, roll on Saturday.

Jadeja is one of those youngsters who get a lot of thrashing in the forums, proved his worth and talent both with bat and ball outside great fielding.

Jadeja almost always gets flack and a lot of it is nonsense. Sure he didn't always bat like a number 7 when he had to take the bowling on from ball one, but he has always chipped in, each and every time on the field, most times with the ball, and at times with the bat in some crucial situations. Now with this knock, hopefully he has found that extra gear to bat 7 regularly.
T-20I doesn't seem to be the best format for him, but he's a pretty decent ODI cricketer, and I have a feeling he would make a useful test all-rounder as well. Never really disgraced himself during his debut test it has to be remembered.

I like Jadeja.

In fact, I liked him in his early ODIs where he was economical with the ball, but the Indian fans didn't seem satisfied with it.

A bit like Samit Patel his selection depends on whether he can be entrusted with 10 overs. On current form he can.

Jadeja usually bowls his 10 ovrs in ODIs. its in T-20Is that he struggles a bit. Gets hit for some big 6s regularly. Perhaps its about not varying his pace and angle of the delivery more often.

I don't think its a question of form. He has always been a good bowler in India. Its outside Asia where he struggles.

Well, he got smashed out of the attack in Australia. But he did quite well in England.

Australia has become a spinners graveyard of late so perhaps it isn't the best place to judge them.

Shelsey93 wrote:Well, he got smashed out of the attack in Australia. But he did quite well in England.

Australia has become a spinners graveyard of late so perhaps it isn't the best place to judge them.

He averaged 38 in England. Australia is a spinner's graveyard? Well, maybe but I remember Xavier Doherty doing well in that CB series. Jadeja took 3 wickets in 8 matches,

And the WC is in Aus. So I fail to see how he is a long term option. And no way would he score 61 from 37 balls on tracks with a bit of bounce.

He isn't an option in England either btw. His record is worse than you think.

Shanky, its just not about wickets. Jadeja usually keeps things quiet. Didn't he score a 78 in England?
Playing 5 specialist bowlers isn't an option for India considering the quality of the bowling resources available, and when you add the fragile batting to the mix, Jadeja's significance becomes all the more clear. If Irfan Pathan comes back fit and on form, he could come in for Ishant Sharma, so giving Dhoni more flexibility, but even then I'd certainly have Jadeja in the mix of things.

pressure maybe starting to lift off of dhoni? we all know he is an exceptional odi player maybe one of the best of all time in that format, and he is back scoring runs again...maybe he should consider retiring from tests, and purely concentrate on odi's....

Hopefully Dhoni doesn't do anything of that sort. He's still India's best wicketkeeper batsman. Saha, Karthik and Parthiv aren't averaging a great deal even in Indian first class cricket, full of flat roads, average bowling and at times less than average teams. Patel and Karthik proved they weren't great with gloves or bat at international level.
Dhoni did a decent job in England, he scored a 99 in his last test. He's the best bet to lead the side at the moment He has always scored ODI runs in all conditions, and is certainly among the greats of the ODI game. in comparison, it is just that he is merely good in test matches.

Ya no doubt he is the best batsman in the ODI format. He played brilliantly in the last test match but as dravid said,

I believe, though, that not only is Dhoni the only man to lead India in Test cricket, he is still capable of doing the job well. What it will require from him is a change in the way he captains, a recognition that he can't do everything all the time, and the willingness to ask for and accept help. He has had a good run, and will be recognised as India's most successful captain, and he now has a chance to extend it.

Read the dravid's comment on cricinfo. You will get to know the story. I am unable to post the link as i don't have the permission.

Yep. I've always said that I think the pressure on Dhoni is a bit unjust. I can't see a better captain or 'keeper-batsman at this stage. English pundits love to ridicule his 'keeping for some reason, but I can't remember him missing much. He also is above average as a Test 'keeper-batsman.

Shelsey93 wrote:Yep. I've always said that I think the pressure on Dhoni is a bit unjust. I can't see a better captain or 'keeper-batsman at this stage. English pundits love to ridicule his 'keeping for some reason, but I can't remember him missing much. He also is above average as a Test 'keeper-batsman.

I've always found this quite perplexing myself. It's almost common belief but as you say in reality he's quite a tidy keeper.

It partly comes from the era he first emerged in, when most keepers were still primarily keepers first and batsmen second (well except for Gilchrist, Stewart, Mccullum, Flower and Sangakarra )
But basically it was a common held FACT that a players batting ability was inversely proportional to their keeping ability. See also Matt Prior who the commentators now begrudgingly describe as "much improved" whilst never going as far as saying "actually competent"

Theres no question that for ODIs he is the best option for India currently, arguably the worlds best mid order batsman. The problem is he doesnt do that in tests. And the team stinks of needing fresh leadership

I do agree peter. He is not much suited for a test match.

I don't agree Peter.

I don't think captaincy is the issue. Nobody in that side strikes me as being able to take the team in a team in a new direction - Kohli is young and needs to focus on batting for now, Gambhir doesn't look the inspirational type and isn't exactly in form anyway.

In Tests he averages 38 which is perfectly good enough in my book. There isn't anybody in India that I know of that would do better than that.

As Dravid has said he may need to think about tweaking the way he captains the team, and a new coach might help too.

After the Australia series, in all likelyhood India should be having a new coach.
The only other leadership material in this India team at the moment is Virat Kohli.
Sehwag is not good enough, not because he's 34, but because he has done nothing of note in limited over formats of late and is rightly dropped. Despite his hundred in the first test against England, he has been far too inconsistent in tests as well, and is hanging on to his place only just.
Gambhir too has been struggling in tests for the last couple of years, and of late his ODI and T-20I form has also left him. No way could he be made captain.
Kohli has a lot more to learn as a test batsman. People say Graeme Smith was made captain after playing 8 tests, and perhaps they have a point. Kohli might learn on the job. But unlike Smith who had Kallis, Pollock, Boucher, Ntini, all on top of their game for company, most of the seniors in the Indian team are all struggling, whether that is Tendulkar, Zaheer, Sehwag, Gambhir.......
Dhoni's captaincy at times could be very frustrating and I at times thought he continuing on the job was only tarnishing his legacy and that he should quit. But the reality is that the options are very limited. Perhaps Kohli would find something extra as captain and click, but first let him overcome the rough patch he's going through with the bat at the moment. No added captaincy pressure of a struggling and transforming team need to be placed on his young shoulders.

I think the thing about his keeping is that at times it can be shoddy by which I mean he concedes quite a few byes (I would guess more than most keepers), but he rarely misses a chance which is the most important thing, and is quite simply brilliant at taking stumping chances.

Certainly the likes of Rayudu, Karthik and co are not obviously superior keepers, and Dhoni's batting in tests is good enough for now - he rarely has a series where he doesn't get at least a couple of 50s.

I do think though India would benefit from a change of captain - quite often this leads to a renewed vigour and sense of purpose (Clarke and now Cook are obvious examples). India the last couple of years have become a bit stagnant in the way they play their cricket, and often this is a sign of a captain running out of ideas and enthusiasm. The problem is that there is no obvious replacement: Kohli in time, but he has only really just established himself in the side; no one else comes close. On the whole then, I think Dhoni should remain captain for another year or two.

As far as the English pundit's take on Dhoni's keeping, I'd say it is more the result of their obsession with the clasical style of keeping. Dhoni is not your clasic wicketkeeper with a textbook technique. But there are not many better keepers particularly to spin standing up and I haven't seen any other wicketkeeper who is as effective as Dhoni when it comes to stumpings.

Neither Dinesh Karthik nor Parthiv Patel during their international days could be considered superior to Dhoni with the gloves. In fact Patel was dropped at a time when his batting was producing a bit, but his keeping had become nothing short of an outright disaster. When he was given a few opportunities when Dhoni rested in between, there was nothing major that suggested a great improvement.
As far as Karthik goes, his batting has been inconsistent. He did get the chance to play as a specialist batsman, atest opener at that and he did a half decent job there. But again after a while the inconsistencies caught up with him, and his keeping again is not as good as that of Dhoni.
Wriddhiman Saha, who has been the first choice test reserve these days has a good wicketkeeping technique and his keeping is certainly better than that of Patel or Karthik. He has improved as a batsman. But even in the less challenging Indian first class level, he failes to convert his starts more often than not, and he is not in the Prasanna Jayawardene league when it comes to keeping skills, pretty good, but nothing spectacular. Just as recently as a couple of months ago, I remember a Duleep Trophy game where he gave away a number of runs as byes and more importantly, dropped 4 or 5 catches.
Rayudu and Uthappa are batsmen who could double as keepers at times, nowhere close to a test keeper standards. Could keep in T-20Is at times, nothing more than that.

Dhoni injury doubt for tomorrow...apparently has a problem with his thumb...If he does miss out, Saha would almost certainly come in for him

Why would it be Saha? Karthik was in the squad for the Pakistan games when Dhoni was a doubt.

In all seriousness he needs a rest somewhere. But he'll definitely play tomorrow - its the first ever game in his home city.