Time for 3 regions

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:16

Let's be honest. The idea of three regions in Wales is now starting to look like a decent idea.

The top players are spread out too much and are playing in very weak sides and along side mediocrity at best. How can a world class player like Leigh Halfpenny play in so many games without a win? How can half the Wales backline lose 29-0 at home in a HEINEKEN cup match?! No beating around the bush here. It's a travesty.

OK the Ospreys haven't been successful in Europe but they have embraced the regional concept and won the league FOUR times. More than anyone else and away at Leinster for the last two. They had success with superstars, ex all blacks etc and they have had success with young academy players. The Ospreys understand that forwards win matches and they have had a competitive pack since their inception 10 years ago.

The Blues, Scarlets and Dragons have terrible packs and you would still struggle even if you merged them all as the front row simply isn't there. The regions MUST consolidate. There are some real rubbish players playing at regional level week in week out. Enough is enough. I also get horrified how nearly all the commentary and pundits still say "Cardiff, Llanelli and Newport". You never hear Neath or Swansea mentioned. These are just facts.

I wouldn't merge the other regions but I would start with new franchises. Forget a development region, Wales has the principality premiership for that.

Region 1: Ospreys
Region 2: West and North Wales
Region 3: East Wales and Valleys

Wales will always lose some of its cream to England and France but the skills and experience those boys pick up abroad WILL help the national side. The current players who are staying home are getting worse due to playing in terrible sides and under terrible coaches. You know what I'm saying makes sense. This is not Ospreys bias and I am not slating other regions. These are the raw facts and we all want what's best for our clubs and country. OK the Blues won the Amlin and the Scarlets won a league years ago and reached the H cup semi final, but there is no consistency or long term progress.

Go to three regions, make them strong and THEN expand.

by Guest Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:21

I think the regions need to follow the mode of the English success in Europe,
litter your team with quality foreigners - win something - hail it as an ENGLISH victory.

Wales needs four regions, if anything they should be looking a fifth in North Wales.
The under preforming regions need to be run by real professionals not ex players with some money.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:25

How many times have the Ospreys DESTROYED the Scarlets on boxing day when it should be a competitive fixture?

The gulf is too big. 4 or 5 regions just spreads out the talent and makes for weaker sides.

Wales doesn't have enough quality forwards to supply all these sides.

by Guest Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:36

They do,but poorly run regions don't attract them.
Look at the top twenty teams in Europe and you will find a fair few Welsh players who could come and strengthen a region.
But most of them don't want to be part of the shambles.

by Guest Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:36

Yet our players are leaving because they can't get game time. Cutting to 3 will exacerbate this. 4 is the magic number or me. 4 regions, well funded enough to be able to compete with external wage offers, and where every region is an attractive option for welsh players, not just two.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:41

Don't forget Wales almost have a region of ex or current internationals playing in England or France.

Wales won the slam in 2008 with a nucleus of Ospreys players sprinkled with dashes of Blues and Scarlets.

Even two regions would work! Having 4 regions does NOT make Welsh rugby better. It just increases the odds of a superstar player playing alongside someone rubbish.

by Guest Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:41

Problem is pretty obvious for all on the outside to see, regional rugby struggles because some clueless people sit in high places.

by Cumbrian Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:43

viewtothegym wrote:I think the regions need to follow the mode of the English success in Europe,
litter your team with quality foreigners - win something - hail it as an ENGLISH victory.

Wales needs four regions, if anything they should be looking a fifth in North Wales.
The under preforming regions need to be run by real professionals not ex players with some money.

What is particularly English about that? Top European teams have always had foreign players in their teams, look at Leinster with the likes of Isa Nacewa and Brad Thorn or Munster with Doug Howlett or Casey Laulala. That is without even mentioning the French Clubs. There are fans in both of those countries who see it as a victory for their nation regardless of who is in the side.

It's hardly like the Welsh teams only have Welsh players either, all four regions already have foreign players at the moment.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:52

French, Irish and English players benefit from playing and training with the foreign superstars.

The Blues swapped Xavier Rush for Robin Copeland / Pretorius.

The Ospreys swapped Collins/Holah for Bearman

In Wales they are investing in sub standard foreign players.

by Cumbrian Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 11:56

EnglandRose wrote:French, Irish and English players benefit from playing and training with the foreign superstars.

The Blues swapped Xavier Rush for Robin Copeland / Pretorius.

The Ospreys swapped Collins/Holah for Bearman

In Wales they are investing in sub standard foreign players.

Well I agree they are not on the same level. I responded to View because I've seen him write things like this before, he likes to antagonise fans of clubs with foreign players in their side.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:02

It's right what a lot of you guys say.

We need more "rugby" men at the top. We cannot fault Roger Lewis for the profits the WRU have made, the infrastructure improvements, the better younger players, the professionalism and of course THREE grandslams.

Of course there is only so far a person can go. If the regions were centrally contracted then they would get more money from the WRU but also the WRU would scour the earth and invest in top coaching teams for each region.

Other than Gatland, Lyn Jones, Nigel Davies and Tandy, Wales has real rubbish in its coaching system.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:05

Whether this was meant as a WUM am not sure but it bombed miserably with 100% poll in favour of NO.

Also funny how the Ospreys would survive WHY?

by tigerleghorn Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:11

Cumbrian wrote:
EnglandRose wrote:French, Irish and English players benefit from playing and training with the foreign superstars.

The Blues swapped Xavier Rush for Robin Copeland / Pretorius.

The Ospreys swapped Collins/Holah for Bearman

In Wales they are investing in sub standard foreign players.

Well I agree they are not on the same level. I responded to View because I've seen him write things like this before, he likes to antagonise fans of clubs with foreign players in their side.

View's fine. Just a bit of a Scally who likes to toss a hand grenade into a topic that concerns anything English. The key is not to pick it up!

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:12

You're as dumb as the rest then if you think this is a WUM.

Did you read any of it?

Tell me why you think NO?

Why should the Ospreys survive?

Won league 4 times
Consistently batter other Welsh regions
Genuine regional concept
Professional setup and academy
Provided bulk of wales squad on many occasions

Really a silly question. The ospreys are light years ahead of anything else in Wales and have earned their place.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:15

Would a better question not be, should Wales keep their sevens side? How much money is that taking up?

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:16

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Would a better question not be, should Wales keep their sevens side? How much money is that taking up?

Current world champions?
Tom Isaacs doing well from it.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:18

Alex Cuthbert another recent sevens success story...

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:20

Im not saying they should, just saying thats a better question. 4 regions is the way to go.

by international197 Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:20

I don't think welsh rugby has the money to sustain 4 regions anymore. I believe we can choose to cut down now, or be forced to cut down in the future because of financial realities, and I don't think that's too far away.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:21

4 regions works in Ireland.

It will only work in Wales if the national players are centrally contracted.

by Guest Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 12:22

They should keep their 7's and look at an A team.
You don't get strong by reducing your stock.

by Morgannwg Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 15:07

Mods, please ban the previously banned muppet.

by Casartelli Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 15:09

EnglandRose wrote:You're as dumb as the rest then if you think this is a WUM.

Did you read any of it?

Tell me why you think NO?

Why should the Ospreys survive?

Won league 4 times
Consistently batter other Welsh regions
Genuine regional concept
Professional setup and academy
Provided bulk of wales squad on many occasions

Really a silly question. The ospreys are light years ahead of anything else in Wales and have earned their place.

That is one way of looking at it. But if we're using 'best in Wales' as a benchmark then we're f**ked before we start.

Ospreys are also the biggest underachievers. Should have made 3 HC finals and maybe sneaked a win in one of them given the squad they had at the height of the 'good times'. It could be argued that they should be the first to be scrapped - at least the others punched their weight.

The underlying question is a good one though - the 'regional' structure has been an abysmal failure. Whether the solution is to go semi-pro and let the best players ply their trade in France & England - or for the WRU to actually provide some leadership and manage the Welsh game (not just have a monthly lunch 'blue sky' meeting) - something needs to change.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 15:18

Why are you people replying to him like he's not a multiple account poster?

by trebellbobaggins Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 15:33

viewtothegym wrote:I think the regions need to follow the mode of the English success in Europe,
litter your team with quality foreigners - win something - hail it as an ENGLISH victory.

Wales needs four regions, if anything they should be looking a fifth in North Wales.
The under preforming regions need to be run by real professionals not ex players with some money.

To be fair to them have to spread their players across far more regions. Maybe they should regionalise in whatever competition them and france play in next year too?

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 15:56

thebluesmancometh wrote:Why are you people replying to him like he's not a multiple account poster?

And who are you exactly? Grow up child. If you don't like the debate then don't contribute.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 16:04

Regional rugby has been FAR from a failure. How short sighted can people be????

1979-2002 worst period ever for Wales
In 2002 Wales lost by 50 points to England and Ireland.
In 2003 Wales get the spoon.

** Rugby goes regional

A sign of a bright future when Wales lose 53-37 to NZ in rugby world cup
Wales outscore eventual winners England 3 tries to 1 in a promising game
In 2004 Wales come within a gnats willy of beating NZ and SA

In 2005 Wales manages to build a team of players capable of winning the slam and it another 2 times in 2008 and 2012

If regional rugby hadn't happened Wales would still be losing by 50-60 against England, Ireland and France.

Wales have won 3 in a row vs Ireland and have an excellent record vs England from 2005 to present compared to where they were.

by lostinwales Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 16:07

Hmm - aggressive tone - someone called englandrose writing about Welsh rugby in this sort of detail - brand new account.

hmmm

by Morgannwg Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 16:09

So delusional.

by Casartelli Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 16:20

EnglandRose wrote:Regional rugby has been FAR from a failure. How short sighted can people be????

1979-2002 worst period ever for Wales
In 2002 Wales lost by 50 points to England and Ireland.
In 2003 Wales get the spoon.

** Rugby goes regional

A sign of a bright future when Wales lose 53-37 to NZ in rugby world cup
Wales outscore eventual winners England 3 tries to 1 in a promising game
In 2004 Wales come within a gnats willy of beating NZ and SA

In 2005 Wales manages to build a team of players capable of winning the slam and it another 2 times in 2008 and 2012

If regional rugby hadn't happened Wales would still be losing by 50-60 against England, Ireland and France.

Wales have won 3 in a row vs Ireland and have an excellent record vs England from 2005 to present compared to where they were.

Professional coaching at test level.

Only in Wales would people try and make a correlation between poor regional teams and a (every so often) successful national side.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 16:23

Sorry rog.

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 16:41

lostinwales wrote:Hmm - aggressive tone - someone called englandrose writing about Welsh rugby in this sort of detail - brand new account.

hmmm

Ooooo laady da. Aggressive? I just like winding prize idiot bluesmancometh up.

You lot are such fairies.

Try and guess my next 10 accounts.

See you next week Smile

by thebluesmancometh Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 18:01

Who's Laaady da? Is she related to lady ga ga?

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 18:10

Hahahhahhaahahahahahshabahahaba

by thebluesmancometh Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 18:13

Is it next week already?

by Casartelli Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 18:17

thebluesmancometh wrote:Why are you people replying to him like he's not a multiple account poster?

by thebluesmancometh Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 18:23

balls

by EnglandRose Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 19:11

Sack.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Sun 20 Jan 2013 - 21:18

Well as you all guessed that was rogerlewis gracing is with what he no doubt likes to call "wit". Such a shame he's only half right

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