The regions and how to bring in RGC1404?

There was a WUM, on here about dropping to 3 regions, but I think it will sort of happen.

I think we agree that Wales should have 4 regions, and to introduce a fifth RGC1404, is unlikley as SRU, FIR, IRFU are unlikley to agree to a 13 team league, SRU and FIR would want a 3rd team before WRU enter a 5th, and its unsure if WRU could support 5 teams.

Therefore I believe that one of the existing regions will be closed or merged to create space for RCG1404.

The question is how best to implyment this change?

There was an article about how RCG1404 see themselves in the Pro 12 within 5 years, personally I think they should start the planning for this move now, intidcate whats going to happen and let people become accustomed to it, instead of just changing one summer, like the WRU are known to do.

For me I think the WRU should plan who the merger/defunt team will be now. If Scarlets/Ospreys merger, start intergrating Scarlets acamady with Ospreys, start planning if games will be between PYS and LS, will there be a relaunch etc etc, let the planning start now.
If a Dragons/Blues merger, same thing.

Personally I think it will be a Dragons Blues merger, what I would like to see though is the running of the region be slowly removed from Cardiff RFC and Newport RFC. Start building a team in RGC 1404 style, have the clubs that will make up this region (including Ponty), get together as in north Wales and agree on new teams relaunch, neutral colours, where games will be played etc etc, then start linking the acamadies, have the new team start playing games in the lower divisions, (acamady and fringe players). Have it all set up and ready so when RGC 1404 join the league, this other team enters at the same time, so Wales will still have 4 regions, but only 2 of the existing regions.

However I feel that the WRU will just one year go, we have revoked the licence of ...... (like the FIR did Aironi), and RCG1404 are getting it? and suffer a backlash.

How do you feel RCG1404 should be introduced?

I'd suggest a two tier system, maintaining the existing pro12 but with a second division of ten teams, three from Scotland (Borders, Midlands,North), three from Italy (Aironi, a team from Rome and a team from another large city), two from Wales (Celtic Warriors and RGC1404) and two from Ireland ( One in Cork based at Musgrave park, and another in Leinster).

Doubt that would ever work, you can't divide a province, 4 is the number for Ireland, no more, no less. Any way as a second tier we have the BandI Cup, and the domestic leagues.

I can see RGC1404 being entered as one of Wales teams in the BandI cup soon, it would be a good learning curve for them.

It would be ideal for everyone, the Irish have enough strength in depth to cope with more teams, the Welsh have a large enough fanbase, the Scots need more pro players and the Italians could spread the game around more. It would also appease the English and French and would provide a product that was good throughout the season rather than a point where every team lower than sixth has nothing to play for. Also once this has been set up the people who rub the competition should look to get a TV deal from Sky or ESPN to cover all the top division games rather than the disjointed set up whereby the league is shown by a number of small broadcasters in a minority language. The second division could be covered by the likes of BBC Alba or S4C, this would inject more money in to the teams and broadcast it to a wide audience. The Aviva premiership received a TV deal of £152million from BT, based on that the Pro12 has got to be worth at least £80 million which would result in £20million for each union. Over time the product will improve and the TV deals will increase on the basis that the Pro12 covers a total population of 70 million people as opposed to the Aviva which covers around 50 million.
Arguably it features the best teams overall given that it has produced the winner of four out of the last five Heineken cups and therefore of the major European leagues has the most potential.

I agree with many of the points raised in the original post. Primarily that a time line needs to be established rather than the situation that we saw in Italy over the summer. One thing I would disagree with is the merger of the academies, as then you create fewer spaces for the players on the development pathway. For instance, if the Blues were merged with the Dragons, then I would be in favour of a North, South, and East academy situation up until U18 much like the Blues have now. We need to be giving the opportunity to as many potential players as possible.

The transition would be hard for the dropped region and I agree 100% that a new identity would need to be generated and the old boys removed from the picture. People will whine and say they have been robbed of their team, but North Wales cannot be ignored any longer. RGC is the right direction for Welsh rugby and a model to be emulated if a merger of two South Wales regions were to happen.

If done properly, RGC could be the team for everyone north of the M4. A true 'region' (I think I may have pinched that from somewhere). A light at the end of the dismal tunnel we've been trundling along for the last decade.

But the WRU will make a hash of it, same as they do everything else.

Sad as it is, best thing now would be to support the best players going to France and England. Go semi pro in Wales, like Argentina or Samoa.

Just regarding the Academies, IMHO we should be creating more not joining them, we need as many juniors we can picked up at the first elite age group (U14/U15's) exposed to elite rugby and offered a chance to progress.

IMO every prem club should be running an academy system, they already run junior systems up to U16's, nothing need change there except that when the kids reach U15 the best 25 they can get their hands on from nearby surrounding junior systems they are designated they should be exposed to the higher coaching, extra training times and top quality advice.

Then when it comes to U18's they will have had 3 seasons of elite rugby (performance based) and each 'region' will pick up the cream for another elite academy, in which the boys go to colleges etc...

We will then raise the level of rugby from the ground up, forcing every level above it to raise it's game!

There should already be an academy system up north, and creating a 2nd or 3rd might help.

If Wales had 15 Academy systems we would then start to rival Ireland for strength in depth, England is another story but we'd close the gap at least.

North Wales already has an academy. The bulk of the RGC team is made up from the past academy products. The current U18 have just had some recent success. (RGC Under-18's 40 v Ospreys U18's 13)

Swperb

I know they have, we (Dragons) went up to Newtown to play them last season and it was a very tough game!!!

I agree that they should have more academies. North Wales should have a North West (Gwynedd and Anglesey) a North East (Conwy, Denbighshire, Flint and Wrexham) and a North Central (Powys) academy that feed the RGC main academy by U16 level. Eventually these three feeder academies should become club/mini-region sides that will be allowed to progress through the Leagues to try and get in to the premiership. (Currently the North Wales sides are not allowed to do this.)

If you ask me, I think that the South of Wales have had their chance and made a balls up of it. At the moment Welsh rugby is on its knees, how can you go from winning a grand slam to be white washed in the Autumn ? We need something drastic along the lines of when we first went regional. Regional rugby can, and will work, we just need to find a way of getting the balance right. People are going to be upset and we will probably still have the same arguments that we have now, but we just need to please more people. We all need to take our blinkered specs off, I probably go to watch the Cardiff Blues more than any other region, and I can tell you the mood down there from the most is, they are Cardiff and nothing else, that's fine, so lets call the Cardiff and have them as our "capital" region, then we need a West Wales region a Mid Wales/Valleys region and a North Wales region, the potential north of the M4 cannot be ignored for ever and areas that have not taken their chance in the last ten years should now step aside to give some body else a chance, if you have had a crack at it and failed then it's no problem give somebody else a go until your turn comes around again, as the current system is clearly is not working, we are being humiliated in Europe and what are the odds on a wooden spoon finish in this six nations ? There's more chance of a wooden spoon than a top two or three finish in the six nations if you ask me.

Expanding the RGC Academy in to two teams would be the best situation, but not right now. Everything really seems to be clicking up there at the moment. RGC is growing at an organic rate, I would assume that player figures are increasing slowly and with the U-20's games being based in Colwyn things are looking good. I would like to see a full cap international in Wrexham (mainly because the capacity) in the next 2/3 years. I'm sure we used to play one game up there in the autumn every year. Last game I can remember was v Romania. The desire is there, we just need to add a bit more fuel to the fire.

I completely agree Coleman. I meant they should build these additional academies over time. Once RGC is a full Pro12 region say and try to get these two or three sides into the premiership. But baby steps is the correct route. RGC need to win promotion to the premiership first.

Commented on this on another thread - best place for RGC 1404 would be in the English leagues. WRU should negotiate this at earliest opportunity. Just adding another team to the existing set up would be a waste of everyone's time and money.

I think Casartelli this is your way of getting into bed with the English. Why should the Welsh jump between two leagues?

Didn't quite mean the acamadies should be joined, more that there was a clear pathway of progression set up involving the acamamies in the new region.

What I don't want is in 5 years WRU say RGC are entering, and to make room X is happening. I want the WRU to say in advance that X is happening so that it can be planned for and go smoothly.

We'll just say X is the Blues, Dragons being and Ponty and all the other clubs having a new region not owned by Cardiff or Newport RFC's.

Instead of forcing it through when RGC enter, and them then struggling to find thier idently etc for a few years, if WRU said this is going to happen, they they could have it planned out, with which grounds to use, the running the marketing etc etc, and as an extra carrot, if they form earlier than the 5 year plan the WRU will still fund them the same amount as two teams, (what Dragons and Blues got) untill RGC enter.

If they were ready next summer, a region with 3 years of double funding could build a decent supporter base, esp if they were able to create a team working with Cardiff,Ponty and Newport, but seperate from all of them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21117021

Reading into it

"I believe we need four [but] I'm not saying four equal. To have an area of Wales without a professional region is self defeating... but I think we can do it differently."

Gallacher would not be drawn on which of the regions should be scaled down.

"I couldn't make that comment, it would be remiss of me," he told BBC Radio Wales' Morning Call programme.

"That is a call for all four regions plus the Welsh Rugby Union. But it's no good ducking it, we can talk around it forever, but we have to make decisions."



I'd say they do have a plan,

Looks like a team (prob Dragons) is going to have its WRU funding reduced and given to the other 3 regions, then when RGC are ready they will replace this (slowly dieing development region, fans will have dwinded for a few years, so less fuss when its replaced), and take over the development mantra, (prob over a few years RGC will be bought up to same level of funding as the other regions).

As a Dragons fan, i've thought this was their little plan all along.

Will change absolutely nothing, regardless of how 'regional' they are. Regions still underfunded and hamstrung. All the good results at amateur/semi pro/academy level in the world won't change it.

It would mean that Scarlet/Ospreys and Blues would have an extra £1million a year on thier budgets, (more if WRU increase thier funding) for 4/5 years untill RGC are introduced and start recieving more than development money.

Would th e3 regions be competative with that extra, I don't think sothey would still need more, WRU have to increase funding is the bottom line.

Stone Motif wrote:As a Dragons fan, i've thought this was their little plan all along.

Will change absolutely nothing, regardless of how 'regional' they are. Regions still underfunded and hamstrung. All the good results at amateur/semi pro/academy level in the world won't change it.

Stone you seem to know what is going on in your area, has Brown, Hazell etc tried to buy the WRU owned half that was given to them by Russell back?

Kingshu wrote:It would mean that Scarlet/Ospreys and Blues would have an extra £1million a year on thier budgets, (more if WRU increase thier funding) for 4/5 years untill RGC are introduced and start recieving more than development money.

Would th e3 regions be competative with that extra, I don't think sothey would still need more, WRU have to increase funding is the bottom line.

Kingshu if they (WRU) didn't waste the money on debt and boxes there would be well over £1 mil each available for each region

Kingshu wrote:It would mean that Scarlet/Ospreys and Blues would have an extra £1million a year on thier budgets, (more if WRU increase thier funding) for 4/5 years untill RGC are introduced and start recieving more than development money.

Would th e3 regions be competative with that extra, I don't think sothey would still need more, WRU have to increase funding is the bottom line.

If they gave the 3 regions an extra £1m from the Dragons £3.7m then the Dragons would be left with £0.7m. You can't run even an underfunded region on that. That's an average earning of £17k per player in a 40 man squad (Dragons currently have a 44 man squad). What sort of players would that attract? YTS apprentice players? Is that the sort of standard you'd be happy the Irish provinces playing against Kingshu? Kids under 18? Not good for anyone that.

personally I think the WRU should instead for directing extra money to be paying of the debt quicker, the debt should be paid for at the agreed rate, and the extra monies put toward the regions.

The WRU should have very strict NWQ player limits, and release for players, Teams that break these lose out on funding.

IRFU can afford to support the Provinces better than WRU regions, both have stadium debt, (WRU should have cleared more of theirs), and IRFU do not play an extra international.

I can only think WRU diverts a lot more money towards the welsh prem, than IRFU do the All-Ireland leauge, Personally again money should be dirverted away from the Welsh Prem towards the regions.

Wayne & Kingshu - you are enlightened men of genius.

Paying off the debt (quicker than agreed) while hanging the domestic game out to dry is massively negligent. And possibly corrupt. It makes no sense. Might as well sack everyone at the WRU. save the money, and employ Barclays F***ing Bank to run the game in Wales.

Roger Lewis has i. employed Gatland and ii. bent over for the bank. That isn't much of a CV for 7 years in office. Maybe he's had too many outside distractions like running that Welsh Language campaign thing that nobody paid any attention to.

He's obsessed with 'getting into bed' with the 'guys at Barclays' at the expense of all else. He paid millions to the bank to get out of the kind of swap deal that other customers are taking Barclays to court over to sue for compensation! If he was any kind of businessman we would, by now, have sold the naming rights to the stadium and attracted proper corporate sponsors for the regions. Not tin-pot local 'moneymen'.

Members of parliament have had to come clean over expenses and kickbacks. The senior people of the national game in Wales should abide by similar rules of transparency. In this day and age. In my personal opinion.

Casartelli, didn't they try to get the authority for a new naming of the MS a few years ago? and it all went very quiet, I know around the Millenium they were refused the right because of Lottery funding.

wayne wrote:Casartelli, didn't they try to get the authority for a new naming of the MS a few years ago? and it all went very quiet, I know around the Millenium they were refused the right because of Lottery funding.

With all due respect, what's the point in having a high price CEO if he isn't negotiating these kind of things? Any fool could have spotted Gatland was a decent coach and dropped trou' for Barclays. At less cost. And in a 'shorter timeframe' than 7 years.

When the stadium debt has been paid off, we can charge who ever wants their name on it what ever we like.

LordDowlais wrote:When the stadium debt has been paid off, we can charge who ever wants their name on it what ever we like.

We could do that now. Besides, Roger will probably end up selling it to his brother in law's car-sales business for a tenner.

Fast Eddie's Millennium Cars Stadium.

Classy.

Casartelli wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:When the stadium debt has been paid off, we can charge who ever wants their name on it what ever we like.

We could do that now. Besides, Roger will probably end up selling it to his brother in law's car-sales business for a tenner.

Fast Eddie's Millennium Cars Stadium.

Classy.

I don't think we can Cas. The thing is, unlike what the Irish done with the Aviva Stadium, we paid for our stadium entirely with lottery funding and loans, if we decided to ask, say Samsung, to pay towards the building of the stadium and then we could call it the Samsung stadium like the Irish have done with the Aviva, but we didn't, because of this we have to wait until all the monies owed to be payed back and then they could sell the naming rights to who ever they wanted, i.e Fast Eddie. But as it stands, because the WRU have still not payed for their stadium, they do not really own it, thus they cannot do anything with it.

LordDowlais wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:When the stadium debt has been paid off, we can charge who ever wants their name on it what ever we like.

We could do that now. Besides, Roger will probably end up selling it to his brother in law's car-sales business for a tenner.

Fast Eddie's Millennium Cars Stadium.

Classy.

I don't think we can Cas. The thing is, unlike what the Irish done with the Aviva Stadium, we paid for our stadium entirely with lottery funding and loans, if we decided to ask, say Samsung, to pay towards the building of the stadium and then we could call it the Samsung stadium like the Irish have done with the Aviva, but we didn't, because of this we have to wait until all the monies owed to be payed back and then they could sell the naming rights to who ever they wanted, i.e Fast Eddie. But as it stands, because the WRU have still not payed for their stadium, they do not really own it, thus they cannot do anything with it.

LD is right, I remember the Dodger sitting in the ML a few years ago and talking about selling the naming rights and then went very quiet, I suspect he had a slap on the wrist over that.

There is big money to be made there though wayne, and as soon as we get that debt out of the way perhaps we could afford a 5th region.

The Barclays loan papers have no restrictive covenants in respect of naming rights. You can call a property whatever you like, regardless of whether it's mortgaged.

So, we think that the Lottery funding was conditional on never selling the name - is that what we're saying?

Because I'm going to get to the bottom of this! Mark my words, 606v2.

Casartelli wrote:The Barclays loan papers have no restrictive covenants in respect of naming rights. You can call a property whatever you like, regardless of whether it's mortgaged.

So, we think that the Lottery funding was conditional on never selling the name - is that what we're saying?

Because I'm going to get to the bottom of this! Mark my words, 606v2.

You go girl.

Camp.

The Millennium Commission agreed, nearly 10 years ago, that we could sell the naming rights.

http://www.millenniumstadium.com/news/21298.php

Moffett managed to negotiate this(!) and I found it in about 2 mins via the wonders of the internet.

One of the problems here is that us Welsh believe any old kak we hear down the pub.

Where's my £300k a year? I'd do a better job than Roger.

Cas, you are wasted on here.

Situation confirmed by Roger in July 2008.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/expats/expats-newsletter/2008/07/24/wru-hopes-to-cash-in-on-renaming-the-millennium-91466-21398245/

But, evidently, he didn't have the skills to make a deal. Maybe it would have helped with 'the leverage' if we'd been Grand Slam champs at the time...oh...hang on...

£300k+ a year.

I knew there was some sort of ban on the naming rights because of the funding, but I was unawre that it had been lifted. It does not say why it did not happen though, so perhaps there is still a little bit of red tape around the issue somewhere.

There's something odd going on. The annual reports confirm that the WRU has paid millions, literally, to the bank on swap deals. These have been in the press lately as SMEs all over the UK are taking Barclays, and other banks, to court to recover the costs as the product was mis-sold. The banks are likely to pay up as they are doing with PPI.

But, to make matters worse, the WRU seem to have paid an exorbitant fee to withdraw from the deal, rather than negotiate a cancellation (the bank would do anything to avoid the bad press, surely?)

On top of this, the WRU are paying over and above the agreement that seems to have been agreed in 2004.

This is all a bit fishy.

Cas, are you a Business Graduate?

wayne wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:As a Dragons fan, i've thought this was their little plan all along.

Will change absolutely nothing, regardless of how 'regional' they are. Regions still underfunded and hamstrung. All the good results at amateur/semi pro/academy level in the world won't change it.

Stone you seem to know what is going on in your area, has Brown, Hazell etc tried to buy the WRU owned half that was given to them by Russell back?

Publically they always trot out the line they don't see it as an issue. But there was a much publicised take over attempt led by WRU stooge Steve Lewis a few years back that brought Hazell out fighting. The Dragons may be impoverished, but there is no way we are talking about 'tin pot local money men' when it comes to our board. I refuse to believe guys as intelligent and wealthy as Brown and Matthews have never asked for control of their own business. It just doesn't stack up. The board were prepared to invest 5m in a new stand but can't spring for a tight-head prop? Then we have Hazell's recent press comments about not being allowed to grow their own business...

The WRU owns 50% of the Dragons, correct?

Surely that means that they can't do any 'downgrading' without the consent of the owners of the other 50%?

Regarding the naming of the stadium, don't firms generally look to buy the name from inception only, or at least from the early years so th estadium will forever be known as 'blah' but the MS has been the MS for 13 years plus, and in all likelyhood will be known as the MS for the rest of this generation despite whoever pays 10.5 billion to rename it the 'bluesmancometh' stadium.

Maybe the WRU have looked at the route (I'm sure Lewis has as he would lick the sweat off a dead mans ball sack for a fiver) but the offers made have been reduced due to strength and duration of the name MS?!?!?!?

Anyway, back on topic.

What is the best way to bring RGC1404, into the Pro 12?

Is it best to just disband Dragons and enter RGC?

IF WRU doulble the funding to the regions, would it be best to half the dragons (so it stays at current level) and the other half go to RGC, untill they are ready to take Dragons place in the league, whereby they recieve full funding?

Would it work by trying to Merge Blues and Dragons into one region, or Ospreys, Scarlets?

Could a new southern region be formed with newport, ponty and cardiff and all the other clubs working together for a brand new franchise?

Everyone is in agreement that RCG should get into the Pro 12, when ready, for the good of Welsh rugby. But what is the best way to introduce them? For the benefit of Welsh rugby and also to be sustainable?

Kingshu wrote:Anyway, back on topic.

What is the best way to bring RGC1404, into the Pro 12?

Is it best to just disband Dragons and enter RGC?

Of course not, there is more potential in the Dragons if the WRU stop sitting on their 50%. The only way for RGC to succeed is 100% WRU ownership, and look how that went last time.

Kingshu wrote: IF WRU doulble the funding to the regions,

Kingshu wrote:would it be best to half the dragons (so it stays at current level) and the other half go to RGC, untill they are ready to take Dragons place in the league, whereby they recieve full funding?

It's our money, our share of the tv contract, our name on the participation agreement. How can the WRU take our funding? Hazell would take them to the cleaners.

Kingshu wrote:
Would it work by trying to Merge Blues and Dragons into one region, or Ospreys, Scarlets? Could a new southern region be formed with newport, ponty and cardiff and all the other clubs working together for a brand new franchise?

I often see the line from north Walians that 'we can't ignore a third of the population'. Now leaving aside spurious population statistics, do we really merge an area that covers half the population of Wales (and more importantly, by far the most densely populated) into one region, while the other half have three? Bonkers!

Kingshu wrote:
Everyone is in agreement that RCG should get into the Pro 12, when ready, for the good of Welsh rugby. But what is the best way to introduce them? For the benefit of Welsh rugby and also to be sustainable?

Until the system is sustainable it doesn't matter where our regions are based. The question of where North Wales are going to be in five years time is irrelevant whilst Roger has free rein to carry on his Argentia-isation of pro rugby in Wales. Long term I would support an East, West, North three region split if the WRU can get their house in order.

You may say Draons have more potentional but

Regional Rugby Wales chief executive Stuart Gallacher
"I believe we need four [but] I'm not saying four equal. To have an area of Wales without a professional region is self defeating... but I think we can do it differently."

So it appears they one RGC in, but that they will only have 4 teams, so one of the current ones will lose out, (it may not be Dragons, but they do seam the most likily)

on the second point, about increasing funding to all but Dragons, to which you state its our money we'll sue.
The way that would work is of the £3.7 million the regions recieves £1.5 million is from WRU. Now if the WRU double this to £3 million per region, but keep Dragons at the seam current level, ans direct the extra £1.5 million towards RGC. (osprey/Scarlets/blues have £5.2 million each, Dragons £3.7 million and RGC £1.5 million, untill the RGC enter the pro 12 and recieve the full £5.2million)

While you don't like the Idea of a giant Blues/Newport/Ponty region, how would you go about getting them into the pro 12, but still only having 4 regions.

Maybe your right, 3 regions, RGC, a Newport/Blues/Ponty region, and Ospreys/Scarlets region, would that be th ebest for Welsh rugby, would people support it? but WRU and PWC both believe there should be 4 regions.

The way I see it, the regions should have been done differently from the start. We should have had, South East, South West, Mid Wales and North Wales. In the South East you could have Cardiff, Newport, and all the surrounding areas, South West would be Swansea, Llanelli and all the surrounding areas, Mid Wales would be all the areas north of the M4(valleys) and then from Newtown upwards could be the North Wales region, there we are sorted, now lets see all the Cardiff,Newport,Swansea and Llanelli people start throwing their toys out again and we will be back to what we have now, a shambles, and the laughing stock of Europe.

...but it means the National side do better.

It's like language and indpendence. Ireland have got their indpendence (in part) whilst we have kept our language (in part) small nations like us can not do both ERC and 6N success.

South East
Vale of Glamorgan
Cardiff
Newport
Monmouthshire

Mainclubs covered = Cardiff, Newport

Total population covered approx. 709,000


South West
Swansea
Neath Port Talbot
carmarthenshire
Pembrokeshire
ceredigion

Main clubs covered = Swansea, neath, Llanelli, Aberavon, Carmarthe Quins, Llandovery

Total Population = 761,000

Valleys and South Powys
Bridgend
RCT
Merthyr
Caerphilly
Torfaen
Blaenau Gwent

Main clubs covered = Bridgend, Pontypridd, Caerphilly, Ebbw Vale, Pontypool, Bedwas, Cross Keys

Total population = 772,000

North - RGC1404
Anglesey
Gwynedd
Conwy
denbighshire
Flintshire
Wrexham
North Powys

Main clubs covered = ???

Total population = 756,000


(polulation figures courtesy of Wikipedia)


This is what I would do with a complete new rebranding.

Every blade of grass in Wales is represented in this model as this is all the counties (unitary authorities) of Wales.

Also each 'region' has a population to cover of similar size.

Every region gets the same funding, no development region. Players play generally for their region of origin if possible. So North Wales would be able to call on the likes of James King, George North, McCusker,maybe Eiffion Roberts etc.

The development league is the league below that (club Premiership) with the clubs to take a much more active part and have closer links to their region.

Below that regional leagues. eg North Wales division1,2,3 etc. with promotion and relegation.

Each year at this level the winners of North, SE, SW and Valleys leagues division 1 will have semi finals and a final for the title of Welsh Amateur Champions.

+1 Drnick

But I would add the winner of Welsh Amateur champions has a shot at getting in to the premiership with a playoff against bottom placed premiership side.

doctornickolas wrote:South East
Vale of Glamorgan
Cardiff
Newport
Monmouthshire

Mainclubs covered = Cardiff, Newport

Total population covered approx. 709,000


South West
Swansea
Neath Port Talbot
carmarthenshire
Pembrokeshire
ceredigion

Main clubs covered = Swansea, neath, Llanelli, Aberavon, Carmarthe Quins, Llandovery

Total Population = 761,000

Valleys and South Powys
Bridgend
RCT
Merthyr
Caerphilly
Torfaen
Blaenau Gwent

Main clubs covered = Bridgend, Pontypridd, Caerphilly, Ebbw Vale, Pontypool, Bedwas, Cross Keys

Total population = 772,000

North - RGC1404
Anglesey
Gwynedd
Conwy
denbighshire
Flintshire
Wrexham
North Powys

Main clubs covered = ???

Total population = 756,000


(polulation figures courtesy of Wikipedia)


This is what I would do with a complete new rebranding.

Every blade of grass in Wales is represented in this model as this is all the counties (unitary authorities) of Wales.

Also each 'region' has a population to cover of similar size.

Every region gets the same funding, no development region. Players play generally for their region of origin if possible. So North Wales would be able to call on the likes of James King, George North, McCusker,maybe Eiffion Roberts etc.

The development league is the league below that (club Premiership) with the clubs to take a much more active part and have closer links to their region.

Below that regional leagues. eg North Wales division1,2,3 etc. with promotion and relegation.

Each year at this level the winners of North, SE, SW and Valleys leagues division 1 will have semi finals and a final for the title of Welsh Amateur Champions.

I could not have put that better myself, with the population of Wales at just over 3.5 million, that leaves nearly a million people for North Wales. Trouble is we will no doubt have the Llanelli, Newport, Swansea and Cardiff supporters throwing their toys out of their prams just like they did at the outest of regionalism, and this will all get messy again and we will continue being the laughing stock of world rugby.