v2 G.O.A.T. Round 1 Group 13

First topic message reminder :

Yesterday saw a close run battle in the 12th Group between Messi and Owen for first place with Messi shading it in the end.

Please feel free to submit your own argument below for the ones not championed.


Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should progress into the next round.

Please leave a comment as to why you voted.

Garfield Sobers – Championed by GuilfordBat

Before anyone exclaims ''Not another cricketer!'', let me begin with a few words from Harold Pinter, Nobel Prize winning playwright, dramatist and actor. Pinter said, ''I tend to think that cricket is the greatest thing that God ever created on earth - certainly greater than sex, although sex isn'too bad either.''

Now I don't set myself the near impossible task of convincing you of that but I do hope to show you that Garry Sobers was a great cricketing all rounder and sportsman who deserves your vote today. The cricket writer Lawrence Booth described him as ''a master of all trades and jack of none''. In my view, Sobers certainly merits at the least a place at the business end of this contest. Assuming he gets that far, one of his rivals will undoubtedly be Sir Donad Bradman. I make no claim either way today as to whom was the greatest cricketer - that hopefully will be a challenge to come that both will relish. Bradman himself referred to Sobers as ''the five in one cricketer''.

The Don's description referred to Sobers' prowess in batting, fielding and bowling in three distinct styles. This was further explained by the much respected writer, commentator and former Australian captain Richie Benaud: ''Sobers was a brilliant batsman, splendid fielder, particularly close to the wicket, and a bowler of extraordinary skill, whether bowling with the new ball, providing left-arm spin or over-the-wrist spin.'' Benaud added that Sobers was the greatest all-round cricketer the world has seen.''

Garry Sobers was born in Barbados in July 1936. There was perhaps a hint then that there was to be something unusual about him; at birth he had an extra finger on each hand, subsequently removed in early childhood. When Sobers was only five, his father died at sea in WWII when his ship was torpedoed by a U-boat. Despite this tragedy and little money, Sobers generally enjoyed his formative years and excelled in ball sports - football, basketball and especially cricket. At the age of just sixteen he was selected to play for Barbados against the touring India team as a spin bowler and took seven match wickets.

Just one year later Sobers made his Test debut at seventeen. It was the beginning of a Test career that was to last twenty years and bring him 8,032 runs, 235 wickets and 109 catches from 93 matches. With so much Test cricket played today, those stats do not reflect how far ahead of his peers Sobers was. To some extent, I will try and show that. However, it needs to be noted that personal averages were never of concern to Sobers. In the words of the late Tony Greig, ''In my experience, every single thing he did, he did in the interests of the game .... he never thought about averages in any aspect of his game.''

I do not have the time and you do not have the patience for me to list all Sobers' cricketing accomplishments, so just a few to give a flavour of his all round abilities:

* In 1958, he not only scored his maiden Test century against Pakistan in Kingston but went on to amass an undefeated 365 in an innings that lasted over ten hours. It broke the world record Test score of 364 set by England's Len Hutton in 1938. At 21 years and 216 days, he is the youngest player to break the individual scoring record in Tests and remains the youngest triple-centurion. When Sobers' highest individual Test score was finally broken thirty-six years later by Brian Lara, Sobers was at the ground in Antingua to witnesss it and was one of the first to congratulate him.

* Sobers scored another twenty-five centuries in his Test career. Three of these came in the Test series in England in 1966 where he enjoyed spectacular success and was dubbed ''King Cricket''. As the late Christopher Martin Jenkins confirmed, ''he dominated the '66 series''. In the five Tests Sobers scored 722 runs at an average in excess of 103. For me, his greatest batting display that summer was an uncharacteristic innings at Manchester where he reined in his natural attacking instincts to rescue his side from a perilous situation. It has been said on this thread that a true GOAT for all his artistry needs at times to ''guts it out''; this was when Sobers did just that. In their second innings, the West Indies were in desperate trouble at 95-5, leading by just 9 runs. With Sobers at the crease was his young and nervous cousin David Holford in only his second Test. After Holford had played and missed at his first two balls, Sobers went down the pitch and said words to him along the lines of, ''Relax, it's just a game. Now think of how we used to play back home ...''. From there, the tide started to turn. The partnership between Sobers and Holford remained unbroken with the West Indies being able to eventually declare and snatch a draw from the proverbial jaws of defeat. Sobers scored an undefeated 163. Whilst he clearly deserves credit for that, he deserves even greater praise for having coaxed and encouraged his partner to an undefeated maiden Test century of 105 not out. It was the only Test century of Holford's career and would not have possible without Sobers' calming presence.

* Due to the apartheid regime, South Africa were banned from Test cricket at the start of the 1970s. In place of the proposed tour to their country of South Africa in '71/'72, Australia played a Rest of the World side captained by Sobers. In the Third (unofficial) Test at Melbourne, Sobers played an innings of 254 which was described by Bradman as ''probably the greatest exhibition of batting ever seen in Australia''.

* Sobers will probably be best remembered for being the first batsman to hit six sixes in a over in first class cricket. This was achieved in August 1968 when he was captaining Nottinghamshire against Glamorgan in Swansea. The unfortunate bowler was Malcolm Nash. Typically of Sobers when interviewed by cricket writer Grahame Lloyd about the day, he did not criticise Nash's bowling nor talk of his own exploits but spoke of what was really important to him - the game: ''Malcolm tried to do the right thing - he was trying to get me out.'' This tally of 36 runs in an over broke a record of 34 runs that had stood for fifty-seven years and its impact at the time cannot be overestimated. I was on holiday then in the Scilly Isles. In this pre internet age, we had to rely far more on newpaper reports and I still recall one cricket fixated holidaymaker at our guest house going early to the quay to wait for the boat that brought the papers. Ok, the guy was probably a bit of a nutter but it was nonetheless definitely a national talking point. This world record was equalled in 1985 by Ravi Shastri playing for Bombay. However, in the words of Grahame Lloyd, ''It would be 17 years before another batsman would be similarly blessed by the cricketing gods but no subsequent hitting of six sixes in an over would ever be able to match the first one.''

* Sobers' Test average was a mighty impressive 57.78. As a bowler, his stats are not so stunning although in the words of Cricinfo ''he was more than handy with his ability to bowl various styles''. Whilst never taking 10 wickets in a Test match, he took 5 wickets in an innings on six occasions. Particular bowling highlights were at Headingley in 1966 when he returned figures of 5-41 and 3-39 to take West Indies to victory over England by an innings and at the Gabba two years later where his orthodox left-arm spin gave him a second innings haul of 6-73 and the West Indies victory over Australia by 125 runs.

* During his peak as a Test match bowler between January 1961 and December 1968, Sobers took 125 wickets in 33 Tests at an average just under 28. His overall Test bowling average was a shade above 34, still almost 24 less than his batting average. That is bordering statistical freakery. The only past or present player I'm aware of who is on a par is Jacques Kallis of South Africa. For all his strengths of dependability and determination, I don't place Kallis on such a high pedestal as Sobers. For me, Kallis has less of the natural match winning talent and entertaining flair that characterised so much of Sobers' game.

* Far more than Kallis and any other cricketers, Sobers was able to deliver his excellence with bat and ball in the same series. Scoring 300 runs and taking 20 wickets in a Test series is a very considerable achievement. It has only been achieved fifteen times in the entire history of Test cricket. Sobers managed it on three of those occasions, twice against England and once against India. The Australian all rounder Keith Miller did it twice but no one else has achieved it more than once. Ian Botham, Kapil Dev, Richard Hadlee and Shaun Pollock were among those who did it once each. The mighty Imran Khan never managed it and the same still applies to Jacques Kallis.

* As a close to the wicket fielder, Sobers made fielding an artform. For several years, Lance Gibbs was the world's leading Test match wicket taker. A fair number of those wickets were attributable to catches by Sobers. Gibbs readily acknowledged the part played by Sobers, ''His anticipation was incredible.'' In the words, somewhat over ridden with awe, of former West Indies Test batsman Charlie Davis, ''Garry could catch a blur you know. He used to be close at leg slip, at the back pocket of the batsmen, and catch blurs. Once a batsman flicked hard off Lance and Sobers just plucks his hand out and takes it so easily. The batsman couldn't believe it ... He could catch a bur. He is not normal. He is definitely not normal.''

* ''As a captain, Sobers was a mixed bag'' - Cricinfo. I think that is definitely true although I wouldn't condem him too heavily for this. Following initial captaincy success, he was roundly criticised for a declaration against England at Port-of-Spain which resulted in defeat for the West Indies. Whilst Sobers' declaration was overly generous to the away team, he was keen to keep the match alive and believed that gave his own side the best chance of victory. The former West Indies paceman Michael Holding has suggested that Sobers was too respectful towards the abilities of others in his team, ''Perhaps Sir Garfield Sobers thought others within the team had the ability of Sir Garfield Sobers.'' This is rather echoed by Charlie Davis, ''Garry was too modest. He didn't know how special he was. He expected us to bat like him. And catch like him. He thought all of us were like him you know.''

Anyway, that's more than enough from me. Just to finish off with a few comments from others who know much more.

''His stroke range was phenomenal. He had an array of shots and incredible energy. '' - Alan Davidson, Australia Test seam bowler.

''The best ever. You were in awe of him.'' - Cive Lloyd, West Indies batsman and captain.

''The complete all rounder''- Ian Botham, England all rounder and captain.

''The greatest born cricketer probably of them all.'' - Christopher Marin Jenkins, cricket writer.

''Whatever the level, he played it as it was just a game. He was relaxed in everything he did, whatever the situation.'' - Tony Cozier, West Indian cricket broadcaster and writer.

''Forget about all the other things, a great batsman and a great human being.'' - Ian Chappell, Australia batsman and captain.

''A genius. He could do everything. The complete cricketer.'' - Sunil Gavaskar, India captain and opening batsman.

A final comment from Tony Cozier which I consider particularly apt as we seek the ultimate GOAT: ''I have a firm belief that people are put here to do certain things. Like Pele to play football and Ali to box, Sobers was put here to play cricket and he played it magnificently.''

Wayne Gretzky – Championed by Azzy Mahmood

If you’re looking for a G.O.A.T., then look no further than Wayne Gretzky, or as he is more commonly known, ‘The Great One’. Gretzky is the best ice hockey player of all-time, by some considerable distance, with an incredible number of records set during his 20-year NHL career that will never, ever be broken.

In ice hockey there are a wide variety of stats. To make this brief, I’ll only talk about the three main stats – points, goals and assists. Points = goals + assists in case you’re unfamiliar with ice hockey (please do ask questions in the thread, I’m happy to answer them).

Points: Gretzky is the leading point-scorer in NHL history, with 2,857 points. Second-placed Mark Messier has 1,887 points. Only one player in NHL history has scored over 200 points in a single season – which Gretzky did four times. And only Gretzky and Mario Lemieux have ever scored more than 155 points in a season. Points-wise, Gretzky was the greatest player by far.

Goals: Gretzky scored 894 goals in his career, 93 more than second-placed Gordie Howe. He took the 5th most number of shots in history. A devastating stat is that he leads all players in short-handed goals – with 73 – showing that, even playing with the equivalent of 9 men, he was still head and shoulders above the rest. The most number of goals in one season is 92 – by Gretzky. He also has the most number of hat-tricks – 50 in total. As the stats show, Gretzky was the best goal scorer in hockey history.

Assists: Gretzky provided 1,963 assists which, you may notice, is more than any other player has even when combining goals and assists. Even if he had never scored a goal in his career, he’d still lead the points table. That is a measure of just how great Gretzky was.

When Gretzky retired in 1999, he held 40 regular-season records, 15 playoff records, and six All-Star game records. Most of these will never be beaten. He was immediately inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame, waiving the normal 3-year waiting period. The NHL retired his jersey number 99 league-wide, the only player to have had this recognition. If you see a sports player with ‘99’ on his shirt, it is almost certainly a tribute to The Great One.
In terms of peer recognition, Gretzky captured nine Hart Trophies as the league’s MVP, five Lester B. Pearson Awards as the players’ MVP, five Lady Byng Trophies for sportsmanship and performance, and two Conn Smythe Trophies as playoff MVP. During his career he also won four Stanley Cups with the Edmonton Oilers –the ultimate trophy in ice hockey - and led the Los Angeles Kings to the Stanley Cup Finals as well. Following his playing career, he became Executive Director of the Canadian men’s ice hockey team, leading them to Olympic Gold at the 2002 Winter Olympics.
In all of sporting history, no transfer, draft pick or trade has ever caused as much emotional outpouring as ‘The Trade’. On 9 August 1988 Canada was in uproar as Edmonton traded Gretzky to Los Angeles for $15m (at that time, a hefty sum), plus an exchange of other players back-and-forth. Canadian politicians demanded that the Canadian government block the trade, and the owner of Edmonton was vilified to such an extent that his own fans burned effigies of him outside their arena. Gretzky himself was unable to talk at the press conference, such was his love for his team, as he cried in front of hundreds of journalists. The Trade has been referenced in films and on TV ever since.

‘The Trade’ did have one very positive effect. It made California, previously oblivious to ice hockey, stand up and take notice of the sport – Gretzky is often credited with being single-handedly responsible for popularizing the sport in California.

In addition to all this, Gretzky was chosen to be the final torch-bearer at the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, lighting the cauldron. Nickelback had Gretzky in their video for ‘Rock Star’, and reportedly wouldn’t make the video if they couldn’t get him in it. Gretzky also appears in all the TV adverts for Visit California – a measure of how much he is loved there, that a Canadian sportsman could be an ambassador for their state.

So there it is. I hope this has opened a few people’s eyes to the greatness of Wayne Gretzky, a man who I believe truly is the Greatest Of All Time. He won everything there was to win, he broke every record there was to break, and he made the sport what it is today. There will never be another like Wayne Gretzky.

Rowley wrote:Before I vote in this can I just check if any of the nominees had any childhood illnesses and if so what procedures or medicines were used to address these ailments.

Jeff - I assume that's a straight punch and will respond accordingly.

As mentioned in my write up, Sobers was born with an extra finger on each hand. They were both removed in early childhood. Other than that, nothing to report and no desire to play the disability card.

Rowley wrote:Before I vote in this can I just check if any of the nominees had any childhood illnesses and if so what procedures or medicines were used to address these ailments.

gretzky had chickenpox, it's rumoured his parents gave him calpol

Sorry guildford, a slight witticism based on the Messi debate yesterday, sometimes my humour is so subtle it is not even clear it is meant to be funny.

I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

Rowley wrote:Sorry guildford, a slight witticism based on the Messi debate yesterday, sometimes my humour is so subtle it is not even clear it is meant to be funny.

Jeff - I did suspect as much but thought it best to respond in a non-Sobers way with a straight bat.

Diggers wrote:I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

not heard that one... Brian Close was single figures both left and right handed

Diggers wrote:I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

Sorry, Diggers, can't help you either way with that. All I know is that he loves golf and is said to be very good at it.

milkyboy wrote:

Rowley wrote:Before I vote in this can I just check if any of the nominees had any childhood illnesses and if so what procedures or medicines were used to address these ailments.

gretzky had chickenpox, it's rumoured his parents gave him calpol

He's still in the clear, surprisingly Calpol does not contain any substances on the WADA banned list (though there are many E numbers listed).

Between Gretzky and Bekele for me. Toss of a coin and it's tails for Bekele.

milkyboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

not heard that one... Brian Close was single figures both left and right handed

I guess it's not that big a deal, I mean I'm equally good at golf playing left or right handed.

I can play chess left or right handed.

6oldenbhoy wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Rowley wrote:Before I vote in this can I just check if any of the nominees had any childhood illnesses and if so what procedures or medicines were used to address these ailments.

gretzky had chickenpox, it's rumoured his parents gave him calpol

He's still in the clear, surprisingly Calpol does not contain any substances on the WADA banned list (though there are many E numbers listed).

Between Gretzky and Bekele for me. Toss of a coin and it's tails for Bekele.

lucky escape for gretzky, his pushy parents probably didn't even check

Diggers wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

not heard that one... Brian Close was single figures both left and right handed

I guess it's not that big a deal, I mean I'm equally good at golf playing left or right handed.

probably true digs, and not many people could confidently make such a statement, without ever having tried to play left handed.

Seems to be a cricketer thing - Ted Dexter was a very good right handed batsman but played golf (scratch or very close) left-handed.

As for my golf, I'm not quite as good as Diggers - I can hit the ball sideways right-handed and completely miss it left handed.

dummy_half wrote:Seems to be a cricketer thing - Ted Dexter was a very good right handed batsman but played golf (scratch or very close) left-handed.

As for my golf, I'm not quite as good as Diggers - I can hit the ball sideways right-handed and completely miss it left handed.

My mate's dad played a lot of cricket and golf. He always claimed that cricket affected his golf game as he was prone from time to time to play a cover drive when he had a driver in his hand. A great shot in cricket but fairly disasterous on all but the most open of golf courses. Perhaps that's why some cricketers play golf on their naturally weaker side.

The TME organization feels compelled to go on the record with the following:

Without intending to damage this well-intentioned tournament with the inevitable consequences of our weighty and revered opinion, we must say, that the act of nominating 6+ cricketers, three snooker players and three 5K/10K runners, whilst nominating just one basketball player, is sheer lunacy.

As far as this particular group goes, Wayne Gretzky is a clear winner, with a reluctant nod to The Old Man - Garfield Sobers - as the first runner-up. The fact of the matter is, Garfield has no genuine business in this tournament. His, not-so-potent cocktail of off-the-cuff hitting and 'spin' bowling, would make him a poor man's Yuvraj Singh in today's game. Let's not forget that Yuvraj has taken explosive all-roundership to new level in cricket, raising the bar in a way that Garfield was never capable of doing. In terms of technical skills and body-of-work, South African Lynchpin Jacques Kallis is the greatest all-rounder of all-time, far out-stripping Sobers. But given the lack of competition in this round, Sobers may progress.

Mr 24 - Franz 'Jack' Beckenbaur - is another staggeringly poor nominee. A versatile and capable, but relatively non-athletic defensive player, 'Jack' performed his duties with an obvious elegance and high proficiency, and was a strong on-field leader, but a central defender has no place on this list. There were far more talented footballers on Beckenbaur's own teams, let alone globally, that will not have secured a nomination.

Kenenisa Bekele is an accomplished long-distance runner, but he never 'reached for that brass ring' and elevated the running game the way that a true All-Time Great should. The fact is, Bekele lived for many years in the shadow of Haile Gebrselassie, who mentored 'Little Ken' and molded him into a Champion in his image. Whispers have often emanated from the dusty valleys of Ethiopia that, by the end, Haile was somewhat disappointed in 'Little Ken' - believing that Bekele's selfishness and thirst for Golden Records caused him to neglect his role as an Ambassador for Ethiopia and his sport. Bekele was quickly replaced as the 'Face of Long Distance Running' by Mo Farah, who is now widely regarded as the best 5K and 10K runner of the last decade.

milkyboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

not heard that one... Brian Close was single figures both left and right handed

I guess it's not that big a deal, I mean I'm equally good at golf playing left or right handed.

probably true digs, and not many people could confidently make such a statement, without ever having tried to play left handed.

diggers that is some statement Lad-I would believe it if you didnt play golf!

as for sobers playing off sratch right and left- yeah I see a couple of pigs flying past my window!

Guy who used to play country cricket seconds a fair few years back can hit the ball miles with either hand and unerringly. His first name is Rodney and consequently everyone calls him Dave. But he suggested that if you batted with your right hand - in particular the hand on the bottom of the handle it would cause you to make mistakes when you played golf and it took him years to be as good with the right hand as it did with his left. You might be onto something super.

Tbh i doubt it has happened in the history of the game - I mean in an official sense here.

I have read reports that a few have had single figure handicaps right and left( official handicaps!)

However surely it would be much more sensible if your that good to play your better side(say its right in this case)- but have a couple of left handed clubs in the bag incase you get shut out.. Therefore maximiseing your ability, like what Ronnie o'sullivan does in snooker(luckily in snooker you dont need different cues!!)

mystiroakey wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:I did once read Sobers could play scratch golf..left and right handed. Probably BS but you never know.

not heard that one... Brian Close was single figures both left and right handed

I guess it's not that big a deal, I mean I'm equally good at golf playing left or right handed.

probably true digs, and not many people could confidently make such a statement, without ever having tried to play left handed.

diggers that is some statement Lad-I would believe it if you didnt play golf!

as for sobers playing off sratch right and left- yeah I see a couple of pigs flying past my window!

When I say equally good......the key word is equally rather than good.

I dont belive your that bad though Diggs

By the way been looking it up if anyone had/has a scratch handicap right and left..

all i could find was this

"O'Grady, a right-handed player, is ambidextrous; he can also play left-handed at "scratch" level (no handicap). He has previously attempted to gain status as an amateur "lefty" and pro "righty".[4] O'Grady once tried to enter the Chrysler Team Championship as both halves of the same team. He would have played one ball left-handed and the other right-handed.

At the 1984 USF&G Classic, O'Grady got into an altercation with a female tournament volunteer. Eventually O'Grady was fined $500 for it and the fine was taken out of winnings at the 1985 Bob Hope Desert Classic. O'Grady soon afterwards began a series of verbal attacks against Tour Commissioner Deane Beman. At one point, O'Grady said "Deane Beman is a thief with a capital T."[5] He was fined $5,000 and was made to serve a six event suspension late in the 1986 PGA Tour year for conduct unbecoming a professional golfer.[6]

Five years after he left the tour, O'Grady called for a crackdown on beta blockers. O'Grady saying "of the top 30 players worldwide I would be surprised if less than seven stepped to the first tee each week without the use of beta blockers to calm their nerves." Several top European players scoffed at O'Grady's allegations.[7]"


sounds like a bit of a character!!

Spaghetti-Hans wrote:The TME organization feels compelled to go on the record with the following:

Without intending to damage this well-intentioned tournament with the inevitable consequences of our weighty and revered opinion, we must say, that the act of nominating 6+ cricketers, three snooker players and three 5K/10K runners, whilst nominating just one basketball player, is sheer lunacy.

What's wrong with having 6 cricketers when you are claiming to be 6 people? Just think of the 6 cricketers as one entity. You can call them The Main Event Cricketers if you want.

VTR wrote:

Spaghetti-Hans wrote:The TME organization feels compelled to go on the record with the following:

Without intending to damage this well-intentioned tournament with the inevitable consequences of our weighty and revered opinion, we must say, that the act of nominating 6+ cricketers, three snooker players and three 5K/10K runners, whilst nominating just one basketball player, is sheer lunacy.

What's wrong with having 6 cricketers when you are claiming to be 6 people? Just think of the 6 cricketers as one entity. You can call them The Main Event Cricketers if you want.

Is it 6 numpties or 1 mentally ill person? Let's put it to a poll!

Voted for Garfield Sobers as I didn't know much about others.

your from toronto arnt ya Invisible??

I am kinda shocked tbh. Maybe Wayne Gretsky isnt such a canadian hero!!

This may have been raised in an earlier group, but is there not a possibility of tactical voting here? Say you think there's two clear-cut contenders, but of those one is garnering all of the votes leaving your second choice close to missing out, isn't it better to vote for your #2 to get them into Round 2?

shusssh statt.. dont let the cat out of the bag..

my "concerns" having been well addressed (and my curiosity satisfied) by Azzy, Enforcer and Silver (thanks ), I have no hesitation in voting for Gretzky in this round. Even though I'd never heard of him before today, and have no knowledge of Ice hockey, he seems to me to be very much the stand-out candidate of this round.

Diggers wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Guildford, a wonderful write up on Sobers, and he sails through for me. Remains cricket's greatest all-rounder, despite a late challenge from Kallis.

Thanks, Fists.

Following up points made by Mad, I would just add that many of the regulars - myself included - from the cricket board have been slightly surprised to see so many cricketing names already on this thread. If we were to limit it to just two names from that sport (and I would be happy to do so), those names in my view would be Bradman and Sobers.

I think that'd be fair enough, too, though it is hard to deny the likes of Warne.

Personally don't think I've ever seen a guy cause as much havoc on a cricket pitch consistently as Malcolm Marshall did.

Never saw Trevor Chapple then?

Looking forward to see WG Grace in round 14. Super_Realist will be lost for words.

i hope kallis gets the nod.. maybe eclipsed sobers for me

Stella wrote:Looking forward to see WG Grace in round 14. Super_Realist will be lost for words.

I've heard there is another cricketer in but it isn't Grace. Its Ravi Bopara!

Mmm, close for sure. Imran Khan would be close as well but too many Cricketers even for me.

Trying to think who else will come.

Rod Laver?
A.nother Rugby player?
Carl Lewis? (have we had him)?

VTR wrote:

Stella wrote:Looking forward to see WG Grace in round 14. Super_Realist will be lost for words.

I've heard there is another cricketer in but it isn't Grace. Its Ravi Bopara!

Makes sense

Gretzky. Hope no annoying wums will jump on me this time.....

so then we have had 52- thats 12 to go!


not sure we need any other golfers tbh.. we only need to but up nicklaus and woods- however we did have bobby jones- so i have a feeling palmer is gonna get a mention, maybe gary player - who for my money probally desevres a nom more(my 3rd best ever)


ronaldo possibly!! if not him then certainly cruff..

campese (rugby union) is worth a top 64 for me.

carl lewis as stella says is probally a certainty.

probally a few more athletes i may or may not have to google!!!

Campese is a good shout.

I take it you mant the Brazilian Ronaldo?

yep- hasnt he scored the most world cup goals?

Sobers had a batting average in excess of 57 but he's a poor mans Yuvraj Singh who has a fairly abysmal average of just over 33?

To be honest if we had Jackie Joyner Kersee on here then we should have Flo Jo as the assumption is because an athlete isnt caught they were clean.
That 100 record could stand for a very long time, potential dodgy wind gauges excepted.
Id like to see Seb Coe, to be honest at best is a scrape into the top 64 (argubaly the best 1500 runner but more likely one of a bunch of 5-6 its virtually impossible to split.....should have won a couple of global 800's but did set an amazing record that stood for a long time....but has certainly achieved plenty after his track career still sports related.

mystiroakey wrote:yep- hasnt he scored the most world cup goals?

Not so much a GOAT as a fatted calf...

We've not had Ali yet have we? Thinking Steffi Graf must be in the last few rounds as well.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Sobers had a batting average in excess of 57 but he's a poor mans Yuvraj Singh who has a fairly abysmal average of just over 33?

Sadly the guy who wrote that is clinically deranged and has probably been off eating all his own wallpaper since typing that.

Sampras, Nadal maybe ?

Yeah, Ali, maybe Mayweather? Bruno?

Graf should be as well.

sampras for deffo!

Bruno I sincerely hope was said as a joke Stella.

I do agree with an earlier post that suggested each board vote for their greatest of all time and pit the bests of each sport up against eachother, having more than one from each sport has diluted the quality in some instances.

Dan Carter? Jonny Wilkinson? (maybe not an all time great but huge profile over here)

I'd have thought some one like Guo Yue Hua or Kong Ling Hui, from tabletennis might have come into consideration, but I guess tabletennis isnt a Global sport in the UK.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I'd have thought some one like Guo Yue Hua or Kong Ling Hui, from tabletennis might have come into consideration, but I guess tabletennis isnt a Global sport in the UK.

Yes and Honk Kong Phooey. Only joking!

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Bruno I sincerely hope was said as a joke Stella.

I do agree with an earlier post that suggested each board vote for their greatest of all time and pit the bests of each sport up against eachother, having more than one from each sport has diluted the quality in some instances.

It was. I tried to hide it well

Jonathon Davies anyone?