Fisticuffs In The Fourth / What Did Roger Say?

I was unable to watch today's semi between Federer and Murray (although I do have it on record) but reading match reports there is a lot of discussion of this incident in the fourth set when Federer said something to Murray. I'm curious to know what was said and the context. We are always hearing about how all the players are best of buddies but with these two I've never been convinced. Does anyone know what happened?

Here is a video. But it isn't clear what was said and we cannot see the context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJatAb1IWAs

This is what Federer had to say afterwards about it

Q. You spoke earlier in the week about the good manners that exist between the players. There definitely seemed to be a bit of feeling between the two of you after 6 5 in the fourth. Can you talk about that. Was there an exchange between you?
ROGER FEDERER: I mean, it wasn't a big deal anyway. We just looked at each other one time. That's okay, I think, in a three and a half hour match. We were just checking each other out for bit.
No, I mean, that wasn't a big deal for me. I hope not for him.

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2013-01-25/201301251359121946973.html

And what Murray says is even more intriguing

Q. How surprised were you by what he shouted when you were at the net at 6 5 in the fourth? You had a funny look on your face at that point.
ANDY MURRAY: I mean, I wasn't that surprised. I mean, stuff like that happens daily in tennis matches. You know, in sport, the stuff that some people say on football pitches and in basketball and all sorts of sports. I mean, it was very, very mild in comparison to what happens in other sports. It's just one of those things.



Q. Did it rattle you at all?
ANDY MURRAY: No. I think it didn't rattle me. I think he raised his game, you know, and that's what happens. Sometimes guys need to get, you know, emotion into the match.
He definitely raised his level and played in that game I think he hit two balls onto the line and was extremely aggressive after that.



Q. Can you repeat what he said?
ANDY MURRAY: It's not relevant what he said. You know, it doesn't really matter. It's something that happens, like I say, all the time on tennis courts, in sport, all the time.
Especially when it's a one on one sort of individual combat. It's not relevant. There's no hard feelings.



Q. Was it a word that we might struggle to get in our newspapers?
ANDY MURRAY: It's not relevant what was said, you know. I'm sure Roger won't talk about it and I have no interest in discussing it either, because, like I say, it happens all the time.
People will want to make a big deal of it and it isn't really a big deal.

My first thought was that Murray had tried to hit Federer with a ball as he did at Wimbledon. But I was wrong. So what did happen?

Have just found a description of what was going on from Kevin Mitchell from the Guardian

Serving for the match at 6-5 in the fourth, Murray stopped in mid-rally then passed Federer on his backhand side. Federer, irked at what he perceived to be gamesmanship, said something that provoked Murray into an ugly sneer in reply. From there until the end, it was no tea party.

When Federer forced a tie-break and took the match into a fifth set, the feelings did not subside. At 15-0 in the second game, Murray had the simple option of passing down the line with a backhand volley but drilled it at Federer, who celebrated when it went long. He was not so happy when he framed a backhand and again Murray broke, for 2-0. They went punch for punch to the final bell and indulged in the most rudimentary of pleasantries at the net after Federer had sent his final forehand long.

Federer smiled. Murray did not. Nobody present could remember such naked antagonism between them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/25/andy-murray-roger-federer-australian-open

Not nice! Not nice at all... Mitchell sums up by saying It is one they will want to forget and no doubt they will gloss over it but it was real, all right.

Federer hit a ball close to the line, Murray got it back but sort of momentarily stopped (he didn't have any challenges left anyway). Federer then hit an ordinary approach shot (was he distracted?), Murray creamed the FH pass up the line past him. Federer then shouted something at Murray, not sure what, but maybe includes the word "STOP" and something else not entirely printable. Murray sort of smirks at him.

Not much in it really, just a heat of the moment thing, and they were both quite right to downplay the incident after the match.

ROGER FEDERER: I mean, it wasn't a big deal anyway

ANDY MURRAY: It's not relevant what was said, you know. I'm sure Roger won't talk about it and I have no interest in discussing it either, because, like I say, it happens all the time.
People will want to make a big deal of it and it isn't really a big deal, However v2's darling poster HE will no doubt be putting up an article about it

You really do have a problem HE - try and join the real world, (thats the one they are both in!)

Not sure HE. Both players showing great maturity afterwards though. Good to see.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Federer hit a ball close to the line, Murray got it back but sort of momentarily stopped (he didn't have any challenges left anyway). Federer then hit an ordinary approach shot (was he distracted?), Murray creamed the FH pass up the line past him. Federer then shouted something at Murray, not sure what, but maybe includes the word "STOP" and something else not entirely printable. Murray sort of smirks at him.

Not much in it really, just a heat of the moment thing, and they were both quite right to downplay the incident after the match.

Was that it? I thought it was the one where Fed hit a winner that forced an error of Murray, but the point nearly got replayed due to the confusion of the line judge - angering Roger. Hence both he and Murray were 'discussing' with the umpire

Either way both were a non-event and shows how easily our journos get their knickers wet these days

Yeah. Fortunately it didn't affect the match, what with Federer getting the set.

Grown up reactions from both.

Respect to Murray.

sportslover wrote:[ However v2's darling poster HE will no doubt be putting up an article about it

Classic 'sportslover'. It wouldn't surprise me if Andy had said that

I'm waiting for HE to get wind of Andy's dodgy pleading (which resulted in him making a daft challenge) with the umpire, that the point should have been replayed when he hit the ball out about 10 years after he said the line judge's confusing call distracted him

Apparently Roger shouted "I'm the goat, I'm the goat, you're Almagro". But to see and hear this you have to watch in super-slow-mo backwards.

Bit of feeling and emotion from Federer, which is great to see. Whether it was something that had annoyed him or whether he was just trying to put Murray off... No problems with it at all. Or Murray's look directly afterwards.

Then they both state afterwards that it was nothing and shouldn't be focussed on.

So to conclude, bit feisty on court which is great. Very mature and respectful afterwards, which was great. Well done to both players.

It is interesting that out of all the players Andy gets the most emotion out of Roger.

For me this takes Roger out of his normal comfort zone and I wonder if this was the reason he had nothing left in the 5th

banbrotam wrote:It is interesting that out of all the players Andy gets the most emotion out of Roger.

For me this takes Roger out of his normal comfort zone and I wonder if this was the reason he had nothing left in the 5th

Nah, over reading I think.

He had nowt left because its hard to play long matches in slow conditions at the latter end of your career. Occam's razor.

banbrotam wrote:

sportslover wrote:[ However v2's darling poster HE will no doubt be putting up an article about it

Classic 'sportslover'. It wouldn't surprise me if Andy had said that

I'm waiting for HE to get wind of Andy's dodgy pleading (which resulted in him making a daft challenge) with the umpire, that the point should have been replayed when he hit the ball out about 10 years after he said the line judge's confusing call distracted him

Bet HE doesn't put one up about Roger swearing (the TV picked it up), but offcourse its only Andy that ever swears! lol

Danny_1982 wrote:Bit of feeling and emotion from Federer, which is great to see. Whether it was something that had annoyed him or whether he was just trying to put Murray off... No problems with it at all. Or Murray's look directly afterwards.

Then they both state afterwards that it was nothing and shouldn't be focussed on.

So to conclude, bit feisty on court which is great. Very mature and respectful afterwards, which was great. Well done to both players.

yellowgoatboy wrote:Apparently Roger shouted "I'm the goat, I'm the goat, you're Almagro". But to see and hear this you have to watch in super-slow-mo backwards.

Great match, both players gave their best possible for that day, I fell a sleep at the start of 5th set, but to my knowledge nothing serious happened in exchange but Roger did play some delightful shots in the tie breaker as well when he broke Murray.

Of course they would be mature and respectful afterwards and say that nothing happened. They are paid millions in endorsements to be "nice". Federer was definitely angry about something and neither are prepared to say. But Murray is the master of gamesmanship and he did have a smirk on his face... Pfft! It's not only the tennis that is ugly. I've no time for this sort of behavior.

I don't think Federer should be swearing at his opponent in a match.
Swearing to yourself is one thing, swearing at your opponent I think crosses the line.
Very disappointed in Roger, I didn't expect something like this from him.

It Must Be Love wrote:I don't think Federer should be swearing at his opponent in a match.
Swearing to yourself is one thing, swearing at your opponent I think crosses the line.
Very disappointed in Roger, I didn't expect something like this from him.

Dont think he was swearing at Andy, rather at himself, and the fact he probably knew he was going to get beat.

How do you know he swore at Andy? What did he say?

HAwkeye - you say you did not even watch the match and then state that it was murrays fault

Your first thought was Murray tried to hit fed. Really that was your first thought. You have a serious mental issue with Murray

Murray the master of gamesmanship??? Not that nonsense again hawkeye

It Must Be Love wrote:I don't think Federer should be swearing at his opponent in a match.
Swearing to yourself is one thing, swearing at your opponent I think crosses the line.
Very disappointed in Roger, I didn't expect something like this from him.

Can you post a link which confirmed he swear at his opponent? it was just an exchange of words coz Murray called for the review after he hit the ball outside certainly not appreciated by Fed, but I don't think so he swear at Murray, can you please post what he swear and where you got that report from before coming to your conclusions?

hawkeye wrote:Of course they would be mature and respectful afterwards and say that nothing happened. They are paid millions in endorsements to be "nice". Federer was definitely angry about something and neither are prepared to say. But Murray is the master of gamesmanship and he did have a smirk on his face... Pfft! It's not only the tennis that is ugly. I've no time for this sort of behavior.

I thought you hadn't seen it? The smirk was in response to Federer's swearing. Fed was clearly in the wrong on this occasion. Whether it was gamesmanship or just a mistake isn't entirely clear. As BB says, whether it distracted Murray or not, it didn't alter the result of the match.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:I don't think Federer should be swearing at his opponent in a match.
Swearing to yourself is one thing, swearing at your opponent I think crosses the line.
Very disappointed in Roger, I didn't expect something like this from him.

Can you post a link which confirmed he swear at his opponent? it was just an exchange of words coz Murray called for the review after he hit the ball outside certainly not appreciated by Fed, but I don't think so he swear at Murray, can you please post what he swear and where you got that report from before coming to your conclusions?

Different incident. Molina was incredibly weak on that occasion by the way. He called "replay the point" and then changed his mind when Fed questioned him. Murray did very well to keep calm.

Big deal.

As Murray said this stuff happens all the time. Much ado about nothing.

Little confusion and a little needle from federe. He was a little out of line a couple of times though. Once before that in the third where he barks to the umpire "dont look at me" 0-40 down, and orders him to tell him how much it was out... without looking at him, and this thing. A little needles OK but the slow mo replay highly indicates the F bomb, apparently directed at Murray, and not under the breath.
He did seem a little rattled Fed, its a big deal because its rare he plays up even at all. Both guys dismissed it though, and im sure Fed doesn't feel good about it.

Godo responses at the end, theyre both old enough to know it's not worth keeping a grudge and getting on with it.

So the person who did not watch it, comes on here to bad mouth a player (again) and is wrong (again)

Sad waste of blog space

"Big deal" !! "This stuff happens" !! "shows great maturity after the match" !!!Yes lets forget it these things happen in the course of a tight match.....Oh yes but not let us forget Rafa´s bumping into Rosol with his shoulder at changeover... even though they both shook hands at the end of the match. That rumbled on for weeks.

Let us not forget the GOAT swore its forgiveable but no more excusable because he is Federer.

Of course Haddie it's not on from Murray or Fed or Nadal, and I hope Roger understands that if he does get fined or something for what he said, the shoulder bump thing was the least of the fallout from the Ro-sol-well incident anyway.

falzy21 wrote:Little confusion and a little needle from federe. He was a little out of line a couple of times though. Once before that in the third where he barks to the umpire "dont look at me" 0-40 down, and orders him to tell him how much it was out... without looking at him, and this thing. A little needles OK but the slow mo replay highly indicates the F bomb, apparently directed at Murray, and not under the breath.
He did seem a little rattled Fed, its a big deal because its rare he plays up even at all. Both guys dismissed it though, and im sure Fed doesn't feel good about it.

Godo responses at the end, theyre both old enough to know it's not worth keeping a grudge and getting on with it.

What did it look like he actually said to Murray falzy? I'm curious.

Nothing wrong with it even if he did swear. They are grown men at the end of the day. Anyone criticising Roger for it has never swore when they are frustrated I assume.

I want to see fire on the court, and respect after it. So Roger has if anything gone up in my estimations rather than down.

It was not the only time anyway.. the commentators said "Well Ive never heard that before" somewhere in the 2nd set and appeared quite shocked at what Federer had said..
All players get frustrated on court if the match is not going their way .. but it is not excusable to swear AT your opponent no matter who you are .. but lets all forget it eh !!!

Born Slippy wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:I don't think Federer should be swearing at his opponent in a match.
Swearing to yourself is one thing, swearing at your opponent I think crosses the line.
Very disappointed in Roger, I didn't expect something like this from him.

Can you post a link which confirmed he swear at his opponent? it was just an exchange of words coz Murray called for the review after he hit the ball outside certainly not appreciated by Fed, but I don't think so he swear at Murray, can you please post what he swear and where you got that report from before coming to your conclusions?

Different incident. Molina was incredibly weak on that occasion by the way. He called "replay the point" and then changed his mind when Fed questioned him. Murray did very well to keep calm.

Yea thats the exact incident I am talking about as well BS , Murray was calm but he did query to Molina regarding the call saying the line judge called it out but that wasn't the case, it was confusion out there which I put it as exchange of words, nobody used any rough language to my knowledge.

Haddie-nuff wrote:It was not the only time anyway.. the commentators said "Well Ive never heard that before" somewhere in the 2nd set and appeared quite shocked at what Federer had said..
All players get frustrated on court if the match is not going their way .. but it is not excusable to swear AT your opponent no matter who you are .. but lets all forget it eh !!!

But Haddie Fed didn't swear yesterday

I loved it TBH, nice bit of needle between both players. Murray tried to hit a ball straight at him at one point early in the fifth too. Then they both had small spats with the umpire: Federer had a real go at him in the third, never quite understood why; Murray of course with the "replay the point; no actually I'll give it to Federer". For what it's worth, I think Molina got the call right, Murray had almost certainly hit the ball (out) before the call, so it was a perfectly decent decision IMO.

From the video, whatever Federer said, clearly Murray didn't mind it too much, though it's not great if he did swear at him. Certainly Federer was rather annoyed on court today (there was one outburst in the second where he swore to himself - in French) which is unusual, but then again I don't think there's a lot of love lost between these two. Respect, yes, admiration, yes, but I don't think they like each other.

Do you know that for sure ic

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I loved it TBH, nice bit of needle between both players. Murray tried to hit a ball straight at him at one point early in the fifth too. Then they both had small spats with the umpire: Federer had a real go at him in the third, never quite understood why; Murray of course with the "replay the point; no actually I'll give it to Federer". For what it's worth, I think Molina got the call right, Murray had almost certainly hit the ball (out) before the call, so it was a perfectly decent decision IMO.

From the video, whatever Federer said, clearly Murray didn't mind it too much, though it's not great if he did swear at him. Certainly Federer was rather annoyed on court today (there was one outburst in the second where he swore to himself - in French) which is unusual, but then again I don't think there's a lot of love lost between these two. Respect, yes, admiration, yes, but I don't think they like each other.

M for C Im not going to enlarge anymore on what Ive said... all I know is there is one rule for Federer on this forum and another for the rest. Swearing on court is commonplace, although unpleasant, but it happens. SWEARING AT YOUR OPONENT is not.. and I dont care if Andy took it on the chin or no. If the boot had been on the other foot Andy would have been put through the wringer. Please remember your excuses when someone else is guilty of the same misdemenour.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I loved it TBH, nice bit of needle between both players. Murray tried to hit a ball straight at him at one point early in the fifth too. Then they both had small spats with the umpire: Federer had a real go at him in the third, never quite understood why; Murray of course with the "replay the point; no actually I'll give it to Federer". For what it's worth, I think Molina got the call right, Murray had almost certainly hit the ball (out) before the call, so it was a perfectly decent decision IMO.

From the video, whatever Federer said, clearly Murray didn't mind it too much, though it's not great if he did swear at him. Certainly Federer was rather annoyed on court today (there was one outburst in the second where he swore to himself - in French) which is unusual, but then again I don't think there's a lot of love lost between these two. Respect, yes, admiration, yes, but I don't think they like each other.

M for C Im not going to enlarge anymore on what Ive said... all I know is there is one rule for Federer on this forum and another for the rest. Swearing on court is commonplace, although unpleasant, but it happens. SWEARING AT YOUR OPONENT is not.. and I dont care if Andy took it on the chin or no. If the boot had been on the other foot Andy would have been put through the wringer. Please remember your excuses when someone else is guilty of the same misdemenour.

I don't think I've had a harsh word for any players behaviour on court TBH. Obviously had the boot been on the other foot (or had it been Nadal) all hell would have broken loose on here, particularly if you consider that after that Federer fought back to take the fourth. But in case you hadn't noticed, this forum does have a rather overwhelming majority of Fed fanatics.

Me? I prefer to rejoice in Andy's great win rather than have a go at Federer. Life's too short for too much bitterness (not accusing you of being bitter BTW), and really can't be bothered. Murray played great, won (first slam win vs Federer) and is in his third consecutive slam final. That's all that matters for me...

Have just found a description of what was going on from Kevin Mitchell from the Guardian

Serving for the match at 6-5 in the fourth, Murray stopped in mid-rally then passed Federer on his backhand side. Federer, irked at what he perceived to be gamesmanship, said something that provoked Murray into an ugly sneer in reply. From there until the end, it was no tea party.

When Federer forced a tie-break and took the match into a fifth set, the feelings did not subside. At 15-0 in the second game, Murray had the simple option of passing down the line with a backhand volley but drilled it at Federer, who celebrated when it went long. He was not so happy when he framed a backhand and again Murray broke, for 2-0. They went punch for punch to the final bell and indulged in the most rudimentary of pleasantries at the net after Federer had sent his final forehand long.

Federer smiled. Murray did not. Nobody present could remember such naked antagonism between them.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/25/andy-murray-roger-federer-australian-open


Not nice! Not nice at all... Mitchell sums up by saying

It is one they will want to forget and no doubt they will gloss over it but it was real, all right.

I have added this to main article

Hawkeye - how do you think a player swearing at another compares to a player physically barging into his opponent on a changeover?

I look forward to your response.

Does anyone have the link to the actual point? I think Federer thought Murray stopped as if challenging then played on. I don't recall that from watching the match though. But could be worth another look.

Very occassionally Federer's veneer of gentlemanly elegance slips or frays...

I've just watched it again and Federer shouts out "lick my seventeen slams" to which Murray replies "when my forehand is hitting more winners than yours it's time to retire mate".

Anyone who wants to see the point concerned can find it on YouTube (search for "set 4 Federer Murray" and pick the 10:24 long vid). It occurs at 5:50. Even HE will struggle to find any gamesmanship from Murray in that point.

Just watched it again Born Slippy, and I think I understand it a bit now.

Federer's backhand looks long, and for the smallest fraction of a second Murray is static as if expecting an out call. You have to watch closely as you can barely see it, but he definitely doesn't explode off the mark like he usually does.

I think Federer might have thought he was going to challenge or something... For which he'd have been wrong, as Murray has no challenges... Murray looks a bit baffled by it when Federer says something.

Again, no issue with the language personally. Though obviously if people do that's up to them.

hawkeye wrote:Of course they would be mature and respectful afterwards and say that nothing happened. They are paid millions in endorsements to be "nice". Federer was definitely angry about something and neither are prepared to say. But Murray is the master of gamesmanship and he did have a smirk on his face... Pfft! It's not only the tennis that is ugly. I've no time for this sort of behavior.

Go back to sleep until Rafa comes back.

You are the only poster I know who types with their arss!

legendkillarV2 wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Of course they would be mature and respectful afterwards and say that nothing happened. They are paid millions in endorsements to be "nice". Federer was definitely angry about something and neither are prepared to say. But Murray is the master of gamesmanship and he did have a smirk on his face... Pfft! It's not only the tennis that is ugly. I've no time for this sort of behavior.

Go back to sleep until Rafa comes back.

You are the only poster I know who types with their arss!

The mind boggles if you try and visualize it

She must spend her life trawling the media for scraps like this - when does poor Mr. hawkeye ever get fed?

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I loved it TBH, nice bit of needle between both players. Murray tried to hit a ball straight at him at one point early in the fifth too. Then they both had small spats with the umpire: Federer had a real go at him in the third, never quite understood why; Murray of course with the "replay the point; no actually I'll give it to Federer". For what it's worth, I think Molina got the call right, Murray had almost certainly hit the ball (out) before the call, so it was a perfectly decent decision IMO.

From the video, whatever Federer said, clearly Murray didn't mind it too much, though it's not great if he did swear at him. Certainly Federer was rather annoyed on court today (there was one outburst in the second where he swore to himself - in French) which is unusual, but then again I don't think there's a lot of love lost between these two. Respect, yes, admiration, yes, but I don't think they like each other.

M for C Im not going to enlarge anymore on what Ive said... all I know is there is one rule for Federer on this forum and another for the rest. Swearing on court is commonplace, although unpleasant, but it happens. SWEARING AT YOUR OPONENT is not.. and I dont care if Andy took it on the chin or no. If the boot had been on the other foot Andy would have been put through the wringer. Please remember your excuses when someone else is guilty of the same misdemenour.

Even when the boot isn't on the other foot HE is doing all she can to blame Murray

Thanks for telling me where to find the point.

So Federer hits a shot, Murray stops, Federer is upset and questions why he stopped, as that may have distracted him, as if he was going to challenge.

However in reality the stop is so very, very slight that Federer has no cause for complaint. There is certainly no rule that says a player must be continually moving (!), and there was certainly no raise of the hand.

In reality Federer has just got frustrated that he is losing the match, that he is being beaten by the better player, and that he has just been passed. He lets his frustration get the better of him and shouts out at Murray, which is a mistake on his part.

In an ideal world, he probably should have apologised to Murray in the after match press conference, but it's a minor incident, so it doesn't matter.

To Murray's credit for not making an issue of this.

hawkeye wrote:Have just found a description of what was going on from Kevin Mitchell from the Guardian

Serving for the match at 6-5 in the fourth, Murray stopped in mid-rally then passed Federer on his backhand side. Federer, irked at what he perceived to be gamesmanship, said something that provoked Murray into an ugly sneer in reply. From there until the end, it was no tea party.

When Federer forced a tie-break and took the match into a fifth set, the feelings did not subside. At 15-0 in the second game, Murray had the simple option of passing down the line with a backhand volley but drilled it at Federer, who celebrated when it went long. He was not so happy when he framed a backhand and again Murray broke, for 2-0. They went punch for punch to the final bell and indulged in the most rudimentary of pleasantries at the net after Federer had sent his final forehand long.

Federer smiled. Murray did not. Nobody present could remember such naked antagonism between them.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/25/andy-murray-roger-federer-australian-open


Not nice! Not nice at all... Mitchell sums up by saying

It is one they will want to forget and no doubt they will gloss over it but it was real, all right.

I have added this to main article

I note you've no interest in the second set tie break, when they were both smiling after they both hit the lines for 4 consecutive points?

Accurate summary HB.

I actually don't believe that there is any antagonism between these two.

There was a few years ago - Fed resented getting occassional loses to Murray. Murray resented the fact that Fed didn't have a good word to say about him. All IMHO of course

That changed after the final here 3 years ago, where I think Roger genuinely felt for Andy.

Since then Roger has had nothing but praise for Andy and I was particluarly touched how 'pleased' he was for him at The Olympics given what a devastating loss it was

On the field of play of course they are going to be trying everything to outdo each other

This is a non story