Rory Best possible Lions Captain?

Just to throw this into the ring, as I don't think he's been mentioned as a possible Lions Captain and to see if it has merit?

Best has been the form hooker who along with Sexton if one of the few players everyone is pretty sure will start, Only hooker to make the ERC European Player of the Year 2013 Longlist.

Was Captain of Ulster, altough this was given then to Mullar (my belief is Provincial Captains will rarely be centrally contracted players, as they miss to many provincial games, better to have someone who will be a constant in the side).

For Ireland is part of DK's onfield leadership group.
Captained the Ireland team that toured North America in 2009
before Healsip got the ireland Captainicy, Best was third choice for the leadership duties, behind BoD and PoC (two previous Lions Captains)
and was chosen to captain Ireland during the 2012 Six Nations Championship after Paul O'Connell was injured.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/captain-best-roundly-praised-by-green-army-full-of-leaders-3046681.html
You can read there what his fellow players have to say about his leadership qualities.

So it may be a bit left field, but for Lions captain you want someone who is sure to be starting, and has experience and respect as a leader. Best is the only player at present that I think puts a big tick in both boxes.

Thoughts? Is Best a serious Lions Captain contender?

I think he has an outside chance yeah but thats it.

Things that go against him are that he hasn't had a great deal of international captaincy experience and hasn't toured with the Lions previously.

I'd say Heaslip, BOD, Warburton and Robshaw are frontrunners at this stage.

Ireland seem to produce leaders pretty well, don't they?

If POC was fit he'd be well up too there along with BOD and Heaslip.

I agree with Rodders though that'll it'll probably be between BOD, Warbs, Robshaw and Heaslip.

Best is one of the few players almost guarranteed starting spot in his position at the moment so that goes in his favour.

If one side wins a slam or a convincing championship I think we're likely looking at the captain of that side.

I think Best is just outside of the likely captains, but I think he could do a job.

To be fair Rodders, you have it against him that he hasn't great deal of international captaincy experience, I think at present he has more international captaincy experience than Heaslip (who people have in the running for captaincy), also he's more likely to start than Heaslip, as there is a lot of competation across the backrow.

I concede that not being on tour before may count against him, but neither has Sam Warburton, and people have him down as a pontentional Captain

For me he's an outside chance and a lot will depend on how the 6 nations goes, but I may take this on as my pet project.

Kingshu wrote:Best has been the form hooker who along with Sexton if one of the few players everyone is pretty sure will start

I still think it's too soon to say that about either of them.

Sure, Kingshu, why not? Personally I'd prefer him to any of the other candidates so far mentioned

Kingshu wrote:To be fair Rodders, you have it against him that he hasn't great deal of international captaincy experience, I think at present he has more international captaincy experience than Heaslip (who people have in the running for captaincy), also he's more likely to start than Heaslip, as there is a lot of competation across the backrow.

I concede that not being on tour before may count against him, but neither has Sam Warburton, and people have him down as a pontentional Captain

For me he's an outside chance and a lot will depend on how the 6 nations goes, but I may take this on as my pet project.

No I accept that but Heaslip is current Irish captain so come the end of the 6N will have more experience, barring injury.

Warburton and Robshaw are current international captains so again have that in their favour but like Best haven't toured before.

BOD would be my pick, if he can prove his form and fitness over the 6N but has stiff competition for a starting spot too.

I'd love to see it go to Rory of course but I think there are a few more likely candidates at this stage. I think he may get the nod to captain in one of the tour games if not the overall captaincy.

Agree with Cyril though that it will come down to which home nation does best in the 6N.

Unless he goes completely left field for me the choices in order of preference at the moment would be:

1) BOD
2) Heaslip
3) Best

I think it will just depend on who's a guaranteed a start as to who it will be i.e. move on to the next one on the list if they aren't.

After Gatland's comments about Robshaw I just can't see him being selected let alone captain. I still have slight doubts about him due to his couple of brain drains in the Autumn too. Not wanting to start a wumfest but I really can't see it being a Welsh player either as I just don't want my captain to be walking on the field with the memory of so many consecutive losses against the wallabies.

If Scotland do something special in the six nations Grey (Or is it Gray? Just googled and it's spelt both ways on the same search!) could be in with a shout. If he goes really left field an outside bet could be Wood if he makes the 6 jersey his but otherwise I think it's down to one of the Irish trio.

Best could be Captain, he's qualified for the job alright, but more likely a very effective and well respected Vice-Captain. As Kidney puts it "He doesn't speak very often but when he does everyone listens". Although he can be observed doing a fair bit of talking on the pitch when necessary.

He is more of a lead by example type, and I can see him being given a lot of responsibility as a leader on the tour but is more likely to play the role of Lieutenant plus maybe Captain a midweek game or two. He's one of those guys who is a leader in every team he's in. He doesn't necessarily need to be the Captain himself, but he's a guy who will take some of the weight off the Captain by doing what comes naturally to him.

I think he's an excellent idea, personally.

I'm from the school of thought that likes its captain to be a forward, preferably a fearsome looking one, I have to say. Forwards are closer to the white heat of action and have a better all-round view. The outstanding Lions captains, with the single exception of John Dawes, have all been forwards (Dawson, McBride, Calder, Johnson).

Now, I accept that Campbell-Lamerton and Fitzgerald, captains of arguably the worst Lions teams ever, were forwards as well, but their shortcomings had more to do with the fact that they weren't worth their place in the team on playing grounds, than any tactical inability.

With the Lions, more than most, it doesn't matter if the man who leads them is a national skipper. First pick your best 15. Then go for a grizzled forward to captain them, one who will be admired by his own troops and respected, if not feared, by the opposition. On that basis, Best is an outstanding candidate, as possibly the only shoo-in for his position up front at this stage.

I think he could be a good captain. With the backrow so competitive it is perfectly possible that Warburton and Robshaw might not even make the tour, though obviously a good Six Nations would change that. If I was picking the squad now Warburton wouldn't make it, Robshaw might, Heaslip would due to a lack of competition. For me BOD wouldn't get picked at present and with Leinster out of europe he will not have the chance to shine the way other injured players might (Ferris or POC for example).

I think Heaslip will be Lions captain even though many dont see him as a nailed on starter.

Wouldnt be at all surprised if Robshaw, Warburton or BOD got it either. Would be more than happy with any of them in all honesty. All strong candidates.

I would also be more than happy with Best but dont think he will get it.

From what I've seen over the past 18 months (mainly international level), I'm not sure that Heaslip would even go with the Lions party, Guns. Looked short of form and a gallop, half the time, to me. Haven't seen much of Leinster this year, but I reckon he's got it all to prove in the 6 Nations if he wants a slot on the plane at all, much less the captaincy (this comment also applies to a number of other players from the 4 Unions, I might add).

I actually think its really funny how underrated Heaslip is. A few years ago in particular when he toured with the Lions he was renouned for being excellent in the loose, a great ball carrier who has a bit of pace and a decent step off the back of the scrum. Lately though as his role with Ireland has evolved he doesnt have the same flair and thus isnt as noticable. He tends to do an awful lot of donkey work for Ireland that goes unnoticed.

Let me tell you this though Heaslip consistently gets through more work than anyone else and he has also played more matches for Ireland than any other player over the last few years. He gets flogged to death but keeps working like a dog and is naturally a very positive person by all accounts.

Furthermore despite receiving lots of flak for loss of form Heaslip was up where with the top tackling forward and top ball carrying ball forward in the Heineken cup last year.

At present there isnt a better 8 in Ireland and while Robshaw has obvious strengths I wouldnt consider him as having the same spectrum of talents as Heaslip, likewise Faletau. Granted there are a host of other good 8s to choose from such as Denton but I very much doubt that Warren Gatland would mention Heaslip's name as a possible captain if he wasnt likely to make the trip:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/1128/1224327249333.html

If Ireland England or Wales win a GS this year, it's going to be between Heaslip, Robshaw and Warburton.

Mickado wrote:If Ireland England or Wales win a GS this year, it's going to be between Heaslip, Robshaw and Warburton.

When is the captaincy usually announced? I wouldnt be surprised if Gatland has an idea who he wants already.

I think its just after the 6N. I remember last time it was just before Leinster beat Munster in the Heino SF...... missing out spurred BOD on that day anyways.....

You make a decent case, guns, but I still believe that he was far less effective in 2012 than he had been throughout his top-flight career to date. Perhaps a result of the overwork to which you refer, I don't know.

Strikes me that Gatland was saying that as a national captain, Heaslip is naturally in the frame for the Lions job. If he has a 6 Nations as anonymous as last year's, I wouldn't see him as a certainty to go, however. Robshaw is no certainty for the trip, at 7 either. In fact, I'm not hugely sold on the current playing merits of any of the national skippers at the moment.

Pick on form, I still say. if Heaslip is the form choice after the spring, then his chance is surely as good as anyone's for the top job.

Best is a decent player but is not a nailed on certainty for the hooker position that some make out. Indeed I think hooker is one of the positions that is most up-for-grabs as there is no stand-out contender.
A year ago Warburton was easily the lead contender, coming off the back of a strong World Cup performance and a Grand Slam. Since then his place in the team has been questioned and the Welsh form has gone to pot, so it would be a brave call to use him. Heaslip/Robshaw are both maybes, although it's hard to see Robshaw being a likely test pick unless he really catches the eye over he next 7 weeks. There are not too many contenders who stand out who are not international captains, but I guess that's a self-justifying statement!

Diasgree Guns, his recent games, ie the NZ Tour and the Novemeber Ints saw him doing work at the coal face. And good work too. But post '09 in an Irish jersey until summer 2012, he was marked absent in terms of the pretty stuff and the effective stuff too and was in serious doubt of his place as SOB was a better 8 and Wallay the better 7 with Ferris when fit the nailed number 6.

Then Wally got injured & retired and Heaslip improved his form and since then we have almost always had a significiant back row injurey to contend wheich eased some more pressure that was/would have been on him.

Then in June he really copped on. And fair dues to him in that regard. If he continues in this form through the Championship, his seat on the plane should be secured and his hat well and truely in the ring for Captain.

SneakySideStep, don't know how you don't think Best is nailed on, he's as much there as Sexton IMO, its these players positions to lose.

On ERC longlist,
Rory Best: The heartbeat of Ulster who are looking to go one better than last season in the Heineken Cup. Intelligent, combative and consistent. Quite simply one of the most complete hookers in rugby. Only two other hookers have delivered more successful lineout throws than Best (64) this season.
In most pudits lions teams at present,

But eachto thier own,

Contendors are
Hartley
Matthew Rees
Dougie Hall,
Ross Ford
Tom Youngs
Richard Hibbard
Richardt Strauss
Sean Cronin

I still see best in current form* being the best of them

*Current form has been ongoing since the world cup.

Ireland have had the past two losing Captains so neither POC nor BOD should be in the running - why pick someone with a history of losing? Even though Wales won the GS in 2005, BOD was picked because of his status in the game. Ireland won the GS in 2009 and POC was picked as the representative of the biggest group. Ireland won't win the GS again so why would Gatland, who has no love for Irish rugby, pick any Ireland player as captain? Further when Kidney didn't consider Best good enough to captain Ireland, he effectively put the kibosh on him captaining the Lions.

Outside of regular rugby fans, Rory Best isn't particularly known or respected, so the PR circus that is really what the Lions are all about wouldn't want him.

Remember too he was ignored for the last tour in a political selection, so picking him now as Captain would be admitting that mistake last time.

The Captain will probably come from the country with the majority of the players so should probably be Welsh or maybe English.

Warburton has shown he has rugby class and is a well-known media recognisable face who speaks with authority and composure. If he plays for the whole 6N, he is the clear favourite.

Robshaw showed a disqualifying lack of leadership last year, so won't be picked. Unfortunately after him there is a serious lack of English leadership options who would command enough respect to take the role.

The Scot with the biggest chance of a start is Richie Gray and he is a well known face, but with no proven captaincy record has to be a rank outsider.

So that leaves Heaslip, who is well known, media savvy, will have Test captaincy experience, and also Lions touring experience - but comes from the same country as the past two captains - so Warburton it is (irrespective of form!).

Best would be a decent pick for a lot of rugby fans, but rugby is only a minor consideration in the Lions captaincy!

The Great Aukster wrote:Ireland have had the past two losing Captains so neither POC nor BOD should be in the running - why pick someone with a history of losing? Even though Wales won the GS in 2005, BOD was picked because of his status in the game. Ireland won the GS in 2009 and POC was picked as the representative of the biggest group. Ireland won't win the GS again so why would Gatland, who has no love for Irish rugby, pick any Ireland player as captain? Further when Kidney didn't consider Best good enough to captain Ireland, he effectively put the kibosh on him captaining the Lions.

Outside of regular rugby fans, Rory Best isn't particularly known or respected, so the PR circus that is really what the Lions are all about wouldn't want him.

Remember too he was ignored for the last tour in a political selection, so picking him now as Captain would be admitting that mistake last time.

The Captain will probably come from the country with the majority of the players so should probably be Welsh or maybe English.

Warburton has shown he has rugby class and is a well-known media recognisable face who speaks with authority and composure. If he plays for the whole 6N, he is the clear favourite.

Robshaw showed a disqualifying lack of leadership last year, so won't be picked. Unfortunately after him there is a serious lack of English leadership options who would command enough respect to take the role.

The Scot with the biggest chance of a start is Richie Gray and he is a well known face, but with no proven captaincy record has to be a rank outsider.

So that leaves Heaslip, who is well known, media savvy, will have Test captaincy experience, and also Lions touring experience - but comes from the same country as the past two captains - so Warburton it is (irrespective of form!).

Best would be a decent pick for a lot of rugby fans, but rugby is only a minor consideration in the Lions captaincy!

Bod captained the lions for 2 minutes max. Dont think you cam really claim he has a history of losing as captain.

Warburton has captained Wales to seven straight defeats v Australia. He is unlikely to be given the nod but who knows.

Even though POC was a losing Captain, the Tour in 09 was in many ways was a success.

The Lions were under pressure and were running the risk of being assigned to the history books, 2009 changed that. While they were Losing Captains doesn't mean they didn't lead the team well.

I don't think I would give the honour of Captaining the Lions the same player twice, it should be a once in a lifetime thing, so that rules PoC out, I would make an exception in BoD's case as he was only on the pitch less than 2 minutes as Lions captain.

Think Best is looking good for now, but would be wary of calling anyone nailed on until after the Six Nations.

Forget it, Warbs has already been fitted for the suit..... its just unlucky for him that Robshaw wears the same size blazer and pants......

Best, Rees, Youngs, Ford, Hartley, Strauss are all in the mix - I'd score all of them as decent but not top notch as all have weaknesses - the next 7 weeks will pull apart who gets picked or not...

Best is top of the list as far as hooker goes.
Ford is out of form and not even starting for Scotland.
Strauss is injured and will struggle to get ahead of Cronin, never mind Best. Youngs has a very good chance of touring, provided he stays fit. He's dynamic and good in the set pieces.
Matthew Rees isn't even No.1 for the Scarlets let alone Wales so I can't see him making it.
And Hartley has to oust Youngs before he can be considered.

Of the ones not mentioned: Hibbard, Owens, McArthur, Hall and Cronin all have outside chances with Hibbard McArthur and Cronin probably the closest to the bolter spot on the tour.

Hibbard has just been picked in the Rugby Club Lions team, Best didn't get a mention.
Basically nobody rates a hooker unless they can double as a centre.

Hibbard has been playing well, I like him. But Rees and Owens are in the Wales set-up; Hibbard could befall the same fate as Best in 2009. Playing excellently in the Heineken Cup and Celtic League, but lack of exposure in the Six Nations undermines his claim.

Notch wrote:Hibbard has been playing well, I like him. But Rees and Owens are in the Wales set-up; Hibbard could befall the same fate as Best in 2009. Playing excellently in the Heineken Cup and Celtic League, but lack of exposure in the Six Nations undermines his claim.

To be fair Notch, I think that the only reason he's not in the team for this week is injury. He's been in the squad and was supposed to be available for selection but didn't pass his fitness check at the start of the week.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:

Notch wrote:Hibbard has been playing well, I like him. But Rees and Owens are in the Wales set-up; Hibbard could befall the same fate as Best in 2009. Playing excellently in the Heineken Cup and Celtic League, but lack of exposure in the Six Nations undermines his claim.

To be fair Notch, I think that the only reason he's not in the team for this week is injury. He's been in the squad and was supposed to be available for selection but didn't pass his fitness check at the start of the week.

Fair enough. That could still hurt him though, if the incumbents play well and hold onto their shirts. I hope he does get some gametime for Wales, he's a good contender for the Lions tour.

Notch wrote:

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:

Notch wrote:Hibbard has been playing well, I like him. But Rees and Owens are in the Wales set-up; Hibbard could befall the same fate as Best in 2009. Playing excellently in the Heineken Cup and Celtic League, but lack of exposure in the Six Nations undermines his claim.

To be fair Notch, I think that the only reason he's not in the team for this week is injury. He's been in the squad and was supposed to be available for selection but didn't pass his fitness check at the start of the week.

Fair enough. That could still hurt him though, if the incumbents play well and hold onto their shirts. I hope he does get some gametime for Wales, he's a good contender for the Lions tour.

Agreed. I was really impressed by him in the Heino match vs Leicester. Him and Tipuric were everywhere!