v2 G.O.A.T Round 2 Match 5

Today's second match is between the last American Football player standing taking on the only other Golf entrant Jack Nicklaus

Please vote for the participant you believe has achieved the most in sport

Below are the previous round 1 articles written by forum members

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Jerry Rice- American Football- Championed by Spaghetti-Hans

In a recent NFL search to find the greatest player their game has ever had, two separate polls – one from the fans, one from the authorities – reached the same conclusion. There has never been, and nor will there ever be, anyone better than Jerry Rice. We could list for you the records, his all-time highs in receiving yards, receptions, and career touchdowns (records not just held, but repossessed, unlikely to ever again be taken), but what matters more is the moments. And what moments there were...

How about his first Superbowl win in 1989, the San Francisco 49ers last gasp win versus the Bengals? The Rice Bowl as it will now forever be known was Rice’s first accent to immortality – an individual Superbowl record 11 passes for 215 yards, MVP, with a performance so good that George Bush Sr., sworn into office only 2 days before, made use of the White House phones for the first time to personally congratulate him on his display. Then again exactly one year later, Rice put to bed that saying so popular amongst old wives and superstitious sailors, that ‘Superbowl champions don’t repeat’. The 49ers were dominant; The Broncos were humiliated – 55-10 remains the most one-sided Superbowl victory in history. And with 3 more touchdowns, our man was the chef serving bronco rare. That San Francisco team has a strong claim to be called the finest in the sport’s history, and all great teams have a ringleader. Like Jordan for the Bulls, read Rice for the 49ers.

Like a man who picks up the phone before it rings, his relationship with his buddy, the great Joe Montana, was telepathic – Rice would run, and lo Rice would receive. Time and time again Rice would pick that pigskin from the air by the fingertips. Yet Rice was so much more than an outlet for a talented Quarterback – his positional awareness, precision timing, riot-shield blocking, and long, mazy, electrifying running with the ball made him unique. For a Wide Receiver he wasn’t particularly quick, but like a Messi or Maradona, the man could shimmy and shake his way through a brick wall.

The mid-90s were an undisputed golden age of NFL, and a Monday night in 1994 saw possibly its highlight. San Francisco versus L.A Raiders: The Battle of The Bay. Jerry Rice makes three touchdowns – and in the process overtakes first Ol’ Walter Payton, then the legendary American Everyman, Jim Brown, before finally setting a new all-time touchdown record. In the heated cauldron of one of the game’s great rivalries, all four sides of the stadium rose to acclaim their new champion. Even Raiders fans chanted the name of the Fog City Saint: Jerry. Jerry. Jerry.

You know you have attained greatness when grown men whisper stories about you round campfires, and at last orders in smoky bars. And there are more than a few tales about Jerry Rice. It was said that he learnt by catching bricks, that he gained his high-knees by leaping through the paddy fields under the Saigon moon, there are some 49er’s fans who swear they never saw him drop a catch. He did miss a catch (once, or maybe twice), but perhaps what they really meant was that he never missed a match. His record was outstanding, his legend durable, in 20 years he only missed ten matches. He floated like a feather, but was made from oak. In his final Superbowl victory, the Three-Peat of 1995 against The Chargers – he proved the difference maker once again with three more touchdowns – and he did it all while playing with a separated-frickin-shoulder. It's said that he wouldn't get into the ambulance until that ring was on his finger.

The man was simply a colossus, a giant who towers over every aspect of his sport. Will he win this prestigious tournament? We suspect not. NFL after all is not a sport that translates - its fragmented, stop-start gameplay, and off-field excess, its half-time shows and inch-wide winner's rings run counter to the simple spontaneous joy of other sports. It would take a brave voter indeed to champion an American Footballer over the tennis player, footballer, or heavy-weight boxer. But if a GOAT transcends his sport then this is surely what Jerry Rice did – he made a complicated sport easy: Run; Catch; Run; Win. A burst of lightning from The Bay.

I'm voting Jack Nicklaus.
Just to shut Pot Noodles (aka Main Event Scriczophenic friends).

I fear Jerry might be up against it here. I'm still voting for him, he is one of the hardest working, most decorated, and talented athletes you will ever see.

Of course I respect Niklaus hugely, too. But I think Jerry deserves some recognition.

Can only see one winner out of these two - for me, Nicklaus's Majors record puts him clear ahead of Woods as the golfing GOAT and as one of the serious contenders for this overall.

Rice was a fine wide receiver, but (American) football just doesn't have the appeal worldwide to make him a credible contender.

dummy_half wrote:Can only see one winner out of these two - for me, Nicklaus's Majors record puts him clear ahead of Woods as the golfing GOAT and as one of the serious contenders for this overall.

Rice was a fine wide receiver, but (American) football just doesn't have the appeal worldwide to make him a credible contender.

but by that logic a true GOATcan only be chosen from football golf or tennis

and boxing

Voted for Nicklaus. Not a contender for the overall for me personally, but I think Rice is a bit limited playing in a North American sport and essentially just being very good at running around catching a ball.

As opposed to standing and swinging a club at a smaller ball?

Nicklaus for me. Im happy to have gridiron and baseball players in the top 64 but thats it, and im happy for basketball players, particularly Jordan...who is an overall winner candidate...to go further as thats a global sport played by a lot of people.

It was a flippant comment but I'd argue there's a need for more of a range of subtlety and variety to be world class in golf than there is to be a wide receiver.

Plus in golf you are not relying on anyone other than yourself. Surely a great wide receiver is going to be heavily indebted to a great quarterback firing in pin-point passes.

Haha, I was only being flippant too VTR. I was thinking that in essence any sport can be broken down and made to sound silly if you apply the same basic sentiment. E.G. footballers essentially kick some leather around a field and so forth.

There is an element of reliance on other talent in receiving, as with all team sports. But there are receivers whose talent elevates those around them, and in some cases probably makes their QB look better than they actually are.

I think though, that there are some other talents that mark out the elite players from the non-elite aside from good hands and teammates. The ability to run precise routes, to work your defender and get yourself open, to block on running plays, to be brave knowing the second you catch the ball you're going to be thumped...

I couldn't argue against anyone picking Niklaus here of course, but Rice seperates himself from the other receivers because of an array of skills rather than just being a good catch with a good QB.

Fair enough sodhat, and I agree, there must be something that separates him from others within his skillset.

I do find American Football to be very specialised positions wise though, right down to changing the whole line depending if you are attacking or defending! And those considered the best tend to come from the more glamouress positions of receiver or quarterback.

Without doubt, the attention goes to the QB, running back or wide receiver more often than not. On the defensive side it tends to be linebackers or defensive ends that get the attention for the big plays they make.

It is a very specialised sport in some areas. Look at some of the offensive linemen - essentially just big fat guys in some cases.

Nicklaus

Nicklaus, who to me should be a candidate for the whole thing, if success and longevity are the major factors at play.

Best golfer of all time, in my view. His competition, stretching from Palmer and Player, through Casper, Jacklin, Trevino, Weiskopf and Miller to Watson was tougher than Woods' of Mickelson, Els, Montgomerie, Duval, Garcia. If he didn't win, he finished second; he could beat you from the front or overhaul you with a last day charge.

Rice is the best ever in his position, of course, but his global impact can't begin to compare with Jack's. This is an easy choice.

I would argue that Tigers was harder, however due to his exeptional dominance in that decade spell at the top he made the others look worse!

VTR wrote:Fair enough sodhat, and I agree, there must be something that separates him from others within his skillset.

I do find American Football to be very specialised positions wise though, right down to changing the whole line depending if you are attacking or defending! And those considered the best tend to come from the more glamouress positions of receiver or quarterback.

Although I've voted for Nicklaus, I've no doubt that Rice was THE outstanding receiver ever to play in the NFL and that he definitely merited consideration in the initial 64 (although was perhaps lucky to be in a relatively weak quartet allowing his advance to the 2nd round). Several things separated Rice from other receivers - longevity, consistency, fantastic hands, accuracy of route running, ability to run after the catch and a general intelligence about his game and that of his quarterbacks. He was slightly bigger than the average receiver at the start of his career, but not huge in the way that some are now, and wasn't blessed with astonishing pace (which perhaps explains how he came to play for over 20 years - never relied on absolute speed, so wasn't affected by the slight loss of top end pace), but what he had he utilised fantastically well.

As for your comment about 'glamour' positions, that's a fair point well made - we didn't have a nomination for John Hannah, who is widely regarded as the best offensive lineman ever.

"As for your comment about 'glamour' positions"

True and goes for players like messi in this as well- Who I look at as one of the best ever however - where the heck is inesta in this!!

what could messi do without him!

Finally a pretty straightforward choice, no brainer for me, it has to be Nicklaus. The achievements, and the long number of years they were spread over was amazing. Then just when everyone thought he was done he goes and wins a 6th green jacket at the age of 46.

There's more than that though, I see Nicklaus as a true contender for the overall GOAT. The only living non-monarch ever to appear on a UK banknote. Only a character held in the utmost highest esteem would be honoured in such a way. His career achievements were impressive but his sportsmanship was exemplary as well. Conceding a missable 3 footer to Jacklin in the '69 Ryder Cup for example. The way he accepted defeat with great dignity as well, he must have been crushingly disappointed not to win the duel in the sun at Turnberry in '77 but graciously congratulated Watson on winning a genuinely epic battle.
When he talks about golf, everyone listens. In golf even if Woods surpassed the number of Major wins I think many people would still class Nicklaus as the greatest, true class on and off the course.

"When he talks about golf, everyone listens"

I dont, well I try, but there is something about his accent that i find very odd!

As I don't know Jerry rice being an Englishman, I will abstain, I would think Nicklaus is hard to beat though

No contest, Nicklaus all the way.

MToTheC wrote:... taking on the only other Golf entrant Jack Nicklaus...

I just voted for Woods on the other one.

I watched Montana/Rice play some astonishing American Football. This tandem has been iconic during my following of this sport (which I no longer follow as fervently as I should... just focussing on Tennis).

My vote would be with Nicklaus, but for the sake of diversity of sports in contention, I will vote for Rice. (Ready for my 20 lashes now from Golf posters ).

Bad matchup for Nicklaus!

Jack for sure, he is a real GOAT candidate.

mystiroakey wrote:

laverfan wrote:

MToTheC wrote:... taking on the only other Golf entrant Jack Nicklaus...

I just voted for Woods on the other one.

I watched Montana/Rice play some astonishing American Football. This tandem has been iconic during my following of this sport (which I no longer follow as fervently as I should... just focussing on Tennis).

My vote would be with Nicklaus, but for the sake of diversity of sports in contention, I will vote for Rice. (Ready for my 20 lashes now from Golf posters ).

Bad matchup for Nicklaus!

I meant the only other golf entrant after woods, but didn't make it clear tho!

MtotheC wrote:

laverfan wrote:

MToTheC wrote:... taking on the only other Golf entrant Jack Nicklaus...

I just voted for Woods on the other one.

I watched Montana/Rice play some astonishing American Football. This tandem has been iconic during my following of this sport (which I no longer follow as fervently as I should... just focussing on Tennis).

My vote would be with Nicklaus, but for the sake of diversity of sports in contention, I will vote for Rice. (Ready for my 20 lashes now from Golf posters ).

Bad matchup for Nicklaus!

I meant the only other golf entrant after woods, but didn't make it clear tho!

I was just joshing with you, MToTheC. Please do not be offended.

missed this one but would have gone for nicklaus easily