France v Wales: Build-up and match thread

by Ospreydragon Sun 03 Feb 2013, 5:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

A very interesting opening weekend in the 6N. Good wins for Ireland and England, and a great one for Italy, who showed some nice touches and are devloping their play (unlike Wales).

Here's a typically hyperbolic journalist (or sub-editor's headline) in today's Express:

"Rob Howley Planning to Dump Failures"

http://www.sundayexpress.co.uk/posts/view/375256/Rob-Howley-planning-to-dump-failures

Nothing in the article to state who is going to be dumped, and no surprise there.

Will Howley have the cojones to drop some players? Jenkins, Shingler, and one of the centres? We'll see!

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Feb 2013, 8:27 am

Doctor, I'd say there's more pressure on France going into this game than there is on Wales. France will have the fans on their backs if they start poorly.

I keep going on about France having a poor start not because I think it's likely, but because I don't think we have a hope if they start well.

by doctor_grey Fri 08 Feb 2013, 8:30 am

I see what you mean. I really would like to see Wales come out running. If they can set France back a bit, I agree that the French fans will be screaming for blood. But, equally, if France get in gear, it might be a long afternoon.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Feb 2013, 8:35 am

I can live with us losing if we actually take the initiative and play some rugby, but what will kill me is seeing us lose playing the same old numbskull looking-for-contact, dying-with-the-ball non-rugby.

by Guest Fri 08 Feb 2013, 8:49 am

Has there ever been a team to yo-yo as much as us (Wales)? Up and down, up and down. There really must be something psychological about it IMO.

Even France, who are renowned as a team that can go from the sublime to the ridiculous in one week, has far less of a swing from their best to worst. They're consistently 4th or 5th in the world, and at worst maybe 7th? Wales get up to 4th (rarely, admittedly) then swing down to 10th, back up to 5th or 6th, then down to 9th. It's ridiculous! This lack of consistency is the greatest cause for concern. Is it all in the head?

by Casartelli Fri 08 Feb 2013, 9:38 am

One silver lining, I am absolutely chuffed for Ryan Jones.

He loves being in the media spotlight, doing the interviews etc. And are those new teeth???

Showbiz.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 08 Feb 2013, 10:02 am

Griff wrote:Has there ever been a team to yo-yo as much as us (Wales)? Up and down, up and down. There really must be something psychological about it IMO.

Wales get up to 4th (rarely, admittedly) then swing down to 10th, back up to 5th or 6th, then down to 9th. ?

..then down to 10th. thumbsup

France were 8th for about a week after the tonga game in the world cup.

by gowershowerpower Fri 08 Feb 2013, 10:04 am

not really on thread, but does anyone know a tidy place in Nice that I could watch the game?

Nice. not nice. like niece. not mice.

by ChequeredJersey Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:48 am

Anyone noticed how many alliterative French players there are? Maxine Mermoz, Medard, Machenaud, Florian Fritz, Pascal Papé...

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:58 am

And not one alliterative name in the Welsh XV.

But we'll have Howler Howley up in the stands...

by Casartelli Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:00 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And not one alliterative name in the Welsh XV.

But we'll have Howler Howley up in the stands...

Alongside King Kohn.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:26 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can live with us losing if we actually take the initiative and play some rugby, but what will kill me is seeing us lose playing the same old numbskull looking-for-contact, dying-with-the-ball non-rugby.

LP,

You're right, the nature of sport is that there aree winners and losers and if the players can honestly walk off the field look themselves in the mirror and say they gave it their all then fair enough.

BUT we know thats not been the case in some of our losses, they just haven't played their best and been caught out, at this level againsy anyone you cant allow performances to drop.

by RubyGuby Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:33 pm

Roll on 2014 Sad

by RugbyFan182 Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:36 pm

Think wales will win this one. Can imagine if Scotland win and France are last in the table!! Shocked

by maestegmafia Fri 08 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can live with us losing if we actually take the initiative and play some rugby, but what will kill me is seeing us lose playing the same old numbskull looking-for-contact, dying-with-the-ball non-rugby.

LP,

You're right, the nature of sport is that there aree winners and losers and if the players can honestly walk off the field look themselves in the mirror and say they gave it their all then fair enough.

BUT we know thats not been the case in some of our losses, they just haven't played their best and been caught out, at this level againsy anyone you cant allow performances to drop.

We usually have a good game with the French. I'm hoping this year is one of those years. I don't expect a win but I would like to see us play better than last week.

by whocares Fri 08 Feb 2013, 1:31 pm

latest news on the French front : Fofana unhappy and says it!

according to an interview with l'equipe, he's sick of being positionned on the wing as he sees little to no ball. He go as far as saying that he will move around the pitch to get some piece of action even if the coaches say the opposite (happened regularly against Italy). Bad news is that there is no wing or fullback on the bench to replace him if go nuts. Happy days for North.

by wales606 Fri 08 Feb 2013, 2:10 pm

I would rather fofana didn't see the ball to be honest.

by RubyGuby Fri 08 Feb 2013, 2:12 pm

wales606 wrote:I would rather fofana didn't see the ball to be honest.

I dont think he will as the french forwards and particularly their back row will be just running it in for fun thumbsup

by ChequeredJersey Fri 08 Feb 2013, 2:49 pm

whocares wrote:latest news on the French front : Fofana unhappy and says it!

according to an interview with l'equipe, he's sick of being positionned on the wing as he sees little to no ball. He go as far as saying that he will move around the pitch to get some piece of action even if the coaches say the opposite (happened regularly against Italy). Bad news is that there is no wing or fullback on the bench to replace him if go nuts. Happy days for North.

To be fair, North'd have to get the ball first! And even if Fofana were there, I'm not sure he'd make much difference...

by BlueNote Fri 08 Feb 2013, 5:46 pm

I'm getting strangely optimistic as the game approaches. I guess it's the triumph of hope over experience.

by wales606 Fri 08 Feb 2013, 5:47 pm

BlueNote wrote:I'm getting strangely optimistic as the game approaches. I guess it's the triumph of hope over experience.

me too

by t1000advancedprototype Fri 08 Feb 2013, 5:56 pm

How can there be any optimism?

Everything last week was diabolical and I mean completely diabolical. The basics were non existent.

Wales were only allowed to play when Ireland had amassed a humiliating 30 point lead and decided they didn't need to play anymore.

One of the worst 40 minutes of rugby I have ever seen from any international side. They were good players playing very very badly and even when they had opportunities handed on a plate, they would screw it up.

France won't be spectacular but will win by 10-15.

by gboycottnut Fri 08 Feb 2013, 6:36 pm

France with a huge and massive forward pack will likely use the frightening NZ style rolling maul against Wales. So what can Wales do to counteract and negate this tactic?

by Ospreydragon Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:08 pm

"So what can Wales do to counteract and negate this tactic?" -- Tickle them under the armpits. It's got to work. Wales has to try something new Wink

by glamorganalun Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:19 pm

After watching AWJ tonight for the Ospreys, shame he is not playing tomorrow he had a great game and made a big impact. Bearman and Bevington were also outstanding showing very good fitness skill and power.

by Ospreydragon Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:27 pm

Perhaps some people are not aware -- but when Shane was at the Ospreys, it was reported that Bevington could match him for speeed over the first 40 metres ...

I haven't seen a quicker prop in world rugby.

by Morgannwg Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:30 pm

Bevington's not in the Wales team because he can't scrum, for all those who have blinkered memories.

by Ospreydragon Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:35 pm

"Bevington's not in the Wales team because he can't scrum, for all those who have blinkered memories." -- On that logic, why is Jenkins in the Wales team and starting then? He can't scrum either. James is better than both as a scrummager. As for Bevington, his scrummaging is much better this season. I can't say the same for Jenkins.

by Morgannwg Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:40 pm

Jenkins is clearly a favourite, which we all know. His scrummaging is decent after a run of games so I don't know why he gets so much flak for it. At the moment he just poor all around. But still the pecking order of LH's is:
James
Gill
Jenkins
Bevington.

by Ospreydragon Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:44 pm

"But still the pecking order of LH's is:" -- You mean the pecking order for scrummaging? The current pecking for LHs is Jenkins -- which is why he starts. Bevington is improving as a scrummager.

by Morgannwg Fri 08 Feb 2013, 11:47 pm

It's the pecking order for LH's. I clearly said that. It is just you and Howler who don't see it that way.

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 9:48 am

Bevingtons scrummaging is much improved this season.

by Newsilure Sat 09 Feb 2013, 12:22 pm

I have said before his tackling and workrate in the loose mean Jenkins has to start if we don't have both SW and DL in the back row. Bevington is getting there but he is no better a scrummager than Jenkins, PJ is definitely the best scrummaging option, and he hasn't proved he can do the loose work which Jenkins has. Even in the last match, when still not fit, Jenkins made as many tackles as Shingler and Tuperic combined and between them they did a full 80 which he didn't!

by Ospreydragon Sat 09 Feb 2013, 12:56 pm

"It is just you and Howler who don't see it that way. " -- What way? I certainly don't see things as Howley does. As for ranking James and Gill as the top 2 LHs, I would too. For the moment, I would rate Bevington above Jenkins on the basis that he's played regular rugby at the top level and is in good from.

by t1000advancedprototype Sat 09 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm

If the pack today was entirely Ospreys I think Wales could win it.

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:02 pm

t1000advancedprototype wrote:If the pack today was entirely Ospreys I think Wales could win it.

Bar Faletau, perhaps it should be

by thebluesmancometh Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:08 pm

Well and there isn't a lock, so Ospreys pack -2/3 players!

by majesticimperialman Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:24 pm

I still find it odd that every body, or just about every body on here was saying that Warburton should be dropped from the starting line up. And what do you know just before the team is to be announced, Warburton we are told as an injury to his shoulder.

How very convenient. So Ryan Jones takes over as captain and Warburton is rested.

Will this make a difference to how the game is played? Or will it be like last week?... Dont bother playing any rugby for the first 20 minutes and then try and catch up when the game is all ready lost?

by Ospreydragon Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:29 pm

majesticimperialman, France v Wales should be a fierce contest. Whoever loses today will have a bad 6N and the coach will be under a lot of pressure and could lose their job. If France start well and put a big score on the board, it will be a long day for Wales. Some of the Welsh players are playing for their reputations today.

I have no idea why Lee Byrne is not in the matchday squad, at least. Selection remains a problem for this coaching group.

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:30 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well and there isn't a lock, so Ospreys pack -2/3 players!

Well, I would have liked to see King start over Coombs in the first game. Add in Bevington and its all O's bar Faletau.

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:31 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I still find it odd that every body, or just about every body on here was saying that Warburton should be dropped from the starting line up. And what do you know just before the team is to be announced, Warburton we are told as an injury to his shoulder.

How very convenient. So Ryan Jones takes over as captain and Warburton is rested.

Will this make a difference to how the game is played? Or will it be like last week?... Dont bother playing any rugby for the first 20 minutes and then try and catch up when the game is all ready lost?

If he wasn't injured, he should be on the bench. I don't think Howley would have robbed himself of a bench option to spare Warbs feelings.

by Ospreydragon Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:33 pm

Betting odds on oddschecker:

France with an 8 or 9 handicap.

Might be worth a bet on Wales at +8 or +9. Or maybe not Wink

by thebluesmancometh Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:33 pm

Well I'd go with James before Bevington, Coombs is less of a risk than King after a decent debut, and Falatau so I'd say 5 Ospreys.

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:35 pm

Ospreydragon wrote:Betting odds on oddschecker:

France with an 8 or 9 handicap.

Might be worth a bet on Wales at +8 or +9. Or maybe not

I have a couple of quid on Wales+8 - I don't really see a hammering

There is also good odds on a different team to win both halves - quite possible considering the random form of both teams.

by Ospreydragon Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:37 pm

wales606, I just hope France don't start well and put a lot of points on the board. If that happens, i think it will be a hammering for us. Wales have to start well and put some points on the board -- then the crowd will get on France's back. Let's hope.

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:38 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well I'd go with James before Bevington, Coombs is less of a risk than King after a decent debut, and Falatau so I'd say 5 Ospreys.

That's true, but Bevington is in some excellent form, and I really wouldn't have a problem with him being more involved.

Equally, the selection of Coombs last week was bizarre (although he deserves to keep a spot in the 23 for now), and I think that most people would have expected to see King over Coombs, and I would back King to get more caps than Coombs in the long run (especially since Coombs is 28 and King is 22)

by wales606 Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:40 pm

Ospreydragon wrote:wales606, I just hope France don't start well and put a lot of points on the board. If that happens, i think it will be a hammering for us. Wales have to start well and put some points on the board -- then the crowd will get on France's back. Let's hope.

I can't see Wales starting so badly again. I think one team will start stronger but the other won't be far off.

Hopefully France just sneak the first half and then Wales put in a strong second half and their fitness sees them win. That would make be a few quid at 13.0. The other way round was 8.0

by Ospreydragon Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:41 pm

King is young and, with the conditioning programmes thsee days, will put on more bulk, but hopefully not too much and not too soon. He is a very good athlete and probably has a big future in the game, if he avoids injury.

by t1000advancedprototype Sat 09 Feb 2013, 1:44 pm

The game will be close because both teams are rubbish.

12-9 to France.

by majesticimperialman Sat 09 Feb 2013, 2:11 pm

Ospreydragon wrote:majesticimperialman, France v Wales should be a fierce contest. Whoever loses today will have a bad 6N and the coach will be under a lot of pressure and could lose their job. If France start well and put a big score on the board, it will be a long day for Wales. Some of the Welsh players are playing for their reputations today.

I have no idea why Lee Byrne is not in the matchday squad, at least. Selection remains a problem for this coaching group.

I do agree with you. alott are talking about England v Ireland being a Grand Slam decider, But this game today will be a "BIG " ask for both team to perform and perform well. Not only so they can say that they won a game at last. but also for the convidence of the players and their coaches.

Wales though cannot afford to give France any start with getting too many points on the board before they respond.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 09 Feb 2013, 2:23 pm

Round 2 and your talking Grand slams and droughts of wins!!

Come on lets put it into perspective, we'll talk GS's after round 4 not round 1!!!!

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