v2 G.O.A.T Round 2 Match 9

First topic message reminder :

Today's second match up will see Diego Maradonna face off against both Edwin Moses, Daley Thompson.

Please vote for the participant you believe has achieved the most in sport

Below are the previous round 1 articles written by forum members

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Diego Maradonna- Football- Championed by- Hero

One day, Lionel Messi will possibly prove to be the global game's greatest player, but not yet, and certainly not just because he has blown the all-time number of goals in a calendar year. Messi may be scoring goals at a rate rarely seen since Dixie Dean's heyday, but he does have the advantage of being at the sharp end of probably the greatest club side of all time. Take Messi out of Barcelona and what do you have?

We already have an answer.

In the last World Cup Messi failed to score in five matches as Argentina lost in the quarter-final to Germany whilst his Barca teammates have lifted the Euro twice and the World Cup. It is argued that the Champions League is now a higher standard than the World Cup (not that the presence of Apoel Nicosia in the quarter-finals adds much weight to that view). Whether it is or not is irrelevant when judging Messi because he is playing for the best team in the competition, a team which even without him would be formidable. A truly great player is capable of turning a moderate team into a winning one. Like Diego Maradona.

English attitudes towards Maradona are understandably coloured by the "Hand of God" goal but his notoriety should not obscure his greatness. Maradona turned base materials into gold on both the club and international stage. Napoli were a shambles when they somehow found the cash to buy him in 1984. Fighting relegation had become a way of life with the club surviving by a point the previous season. Maradona turned them into title contenders and in 1986/87 they won the first scudetto in the club's history. A second Serie A title, and Napoli's first European prize, the Uefa Cup, followed. Since Maradona left, the club have not won a trophy.

Maradona was similarly central to Argentina's 1986 World Cup success. Ten of their 14 goals were scored or created by him, and his five goals included superb ones against England and Belgium of the type now associated with Messi. In the final, after West Germany had come back from 2-0 down to level, he supplied the pass for Jorge Burruchaga to score the winner. All this while carrying a knee injury which had threatened to rule him out of the tournament.

Brian Glanville, in The Story of the World Cup, his history of the competition since 1930, wrote: "It will always be remembered as Maradona's World Cup, seldom has a player, even Pele, so dominated the competition. In an era when individual talent was at a premium, defensive football more prevalent than ever, Maradona – squat, muscular, explosive, endlessly adroit – showed that a footballer of genius could still prevail."

This context is another factor in Maradona's primacy. He formerly played in an era when the tactics were negative and the tackling brutal. Maradona's relative lack of impact at Barcelona, and later decline, had much to do with the injuries he suffered including the notorious ankle-break by Andoni Goikoetxea, the "Butcher of Bilbao". Only after the 1990 World Cup, when Maradona carried to the final an Argentine team which was as guilty of these sins as any, did Fifa begin the crackdown which has allowed players like Messi to flourish.

Simply put Maradona was the best player in the most global sport and therefore rightfully should challenge for the biggest prize of all, the G.O.A.T.

Edwin Moses- Athletics- Champion by 88Chris05

122 races, spread over 9 years, 9 months and 9 days.

That's how long Edwin Moses went undefeated in the 400m hurdles. It is by far the most awe-inspring, dominant and lasting winning streak in the history of track and field, and must surely still rank as one of the most remarkable feats in the history of any sport. Michael Johnson in the 400m, Jan Zelezny in the javelin, Keninesa Bekele in the 10,000m - there have been some athletes who have made an even their own, but none of them managed it to the same extend that Moses did.

Edwin Moses, born in Ohio in 1955, was just that little bit different to many other track athletes of his era, or indeed of any other. He was a vegan, first off, and he insisted on keeping a trademark 13-stride pattern to his running between hurdles, waiving the convential technique of either 14 strides or, at least, adapting from 13 to 14 for the bends. He was also a demonstrative campaigner (rather than just a saying but never doing one) against the use of PEDs in sport; indeed, as an athletics administrator, he played a key role in the developemtn and introduction of out-of-competition testing.

Some athletes covered in this process have left an indelible impression on sport through their colourful personalities or roundabout political influence as they have through their purely physical achievements. Granted, Moses' appeal lies solely in his consistent excellent on the track and not much else more, but what an incredible level of excellence it was. He was the Olympic champion in the 400m hurdles in Montreal in 1976, and again in 1984 in Los Angeles. Sure things seldom exist in sport, but it would have required a rival of Moses' to scale some incredibly long odds to deny him a gold medal in Moscow in 1980 as well, had the USA not boycotted the Games. However, even aged thirty-three and certainly a few years removed from his prime, Moses was able to add a bronze medal in the 1988 final in Seoul. He is one of only four men to have won the Olympic 400m hurdles title twice (again, the it's worth repeating that it was surely only America's 1980 boycott which prevented him from standing alone in this regard), but absolutely nobody else has won a medal in three separate Olympic finals in the event.

Moses was also the world champion twice in his discipline, striking gold at the inaugural edition of the championships in 1983 in Helsinki and again in 1987 in Rome. Once more, nobody has outdone Moses' two world titles in the 400m hurdles, despite the fact that he first World Championships didn't take place until Moses was well in to his career and also that Moses competed in an era where these Championships took place only once every four years, rather than the once every two years schedule that we see today.

However, as with all of the great track and field athletes, the medals alone don't quite convey what Moses meant and still means to his event. Just as men like Usain Bolt and Sergei Bubka have expanded the parameters of what sports fans thought was possible the the 100m and pole vault respectively, Moses helped usher in new targets for the 400m hurdles which, by convention wisdom, just shouldn't have been achievable in his time. Before Moses' arrival on the world scene, the Everest of 400m hurdles running was to break the 48 second barrier. Only one man, in fact, had ever done this; John Akki-Bua of Uganda, who had clocked a world best of 47.82 seconds. However, by the time Moses was done, 400m hurdles runners were daring to dream of cracking the 47 second barrier. To the uneducated eye, one whole second seems like nothing. But as anyone in the know can tell you, to reduce the expected gold standard of a one-lap event, hurdles or no, by such a margin and in such a short amount of time is a wonderful feat.

In fact, Moses' world record reign of sixteen years remains one of the longest in the history of track and field. He started off with a 47.64 in the Montreal Olympics of 1976, improved on that mark with 47.45 the following year, took it down further to 47.13 in Milan in 1980 and then, finally, ran a barely believable 47.02 in 1983. As of today, Moses has run 25 of the fastest 400m hurdles times ever recorded - and this is a full quarter of a century after his retirement, in a sport where times considered world class in their own era are usually not good enough to even threaten such status a decade and a half later.

Consistency, continuity and forward-thinking were the key, and Moses was a pioneer in the latter, helping to bring about eligibility reforms for Olympic athlets in 1979. Without his input, it's likely that many subsequently great athletes the world over would have had to cut their careers short due to financial pressures, ala Mark Spitz who was forced to leave the sport of swimming after bagging his historical seven gold medals at the 1972 Munich Games. But with the drive of Moses and his desire to help bring about change, Olympic athletes were henceforth able to gain funding and backing to help their careers blossom and also help them concentrate on their athletics full time.

So then, if Moses was a phenomenon on the track, he was pretty damn handy off it, as well.

To put the magnitude of Moses' times and consistency in to context, he remains the second fastest man ever over the 400m hurdles - a claim no other man on the track can still make more than three decades after his peak, I believe) and only one Olympic final since 1983 has been quicker than his best mark of 47.02 seconds.

There have been some great winning streaks in sport; Australia's sixteen victorious test matches on the spin in cricket (done twice, between 1999 and 2001 and then again from 2005 to 2008), Bjorn Borg and Roger Federer both managing five consecutive Wimbledon triumphs in the men's singles and Real Madrid being crowned as champions in the first five editions of the European Cup from 1956 to 1960. But I genuinely believe that Moses' streak from 1977 to 1987 belongs right up there with them.

My favourite Moses highlight is the 1987 World Championship 400m hurdles final from Rome. Past his magnificant best, facing off against the young generation of Danny Harris (the man who, only weeks before, had ended his incredible run) and Harold Schmidt and coming under severe pressure in the final 50m, Moses kept his head, his form and his cool to set a new championship record in one of the best track races you'll ever see. That was Moses past his best - so just how incredible does that make a Moses at his peak? Incredible enough to be virtually untouchable for a decade, that's how incredible!

There have been some great names from track and field already mentioned so far in this 'tournament'.....Could Edwin Moses be perhaps the greatest of them all?

JAS wrote:

Hibbz wrote:In my opinion Maradona had more singular impact for both Napoli and Argentina than any other player I've seen for any other club or country and therefore he gets my vote.

He had a fantastic singular impact in many many games Hibbz and in games where Argentina won, all was rosy. Part (ok not a huge part but an important aspect nevertheless) of what defines the greats for me is not how they conduct themselves when winning but how they are able to conduct themselves in the face of adversity or impending defeat. In those scenarios Maradona's attitude could at best be described as ugly.

Also, given that others are pilloried for using PEDS, when a world renowned global superstar and role model descends self indulgently into something far more dangerous (indeed criminal) then does he not lose all the respect previously heaped upon him??

Sorry for taking the debate backwards but I thought you deserved an answer JAS. Agree entirely with you point about greatness in adversity but I'm sure there must have been times when Maradona inspired comebacks.

As for the drug taking bit, who hasn't taken some sh!t? Well me actually but I was trying to be cool, besides which I've never bought into the idea that sports stars should be role models for anything other than how to play sport.

Yeah its harsh but even Tiger Tim won some titles. In the one that mattered most Paula lost in truly great British fashion and for that we should be proud.

Colin Jackson is one of my heroes but he'd have to be in. That 1992 final was an epic piece of British bottling, I think he flattened every hurdle in his own lane and a few others for good measure.

Went for Maradonna the Hand of GOD, not sure how many in team sports revolutionized their sport within the country like Diego did.

Ed Moses. (Hand of God is blot on Maradona's career, IMVHO).

"hell if cheating is allowed lets have Armstrong back in"

exactly.

1982 - sent off for violent conduct
1986 - hand of god, cheats his way to the world cup
1990 - hand of god 2, blocks a ball on the line in a group stage match
1994 - done for drugs.

Some world cup resume for a GOAT.

So in this line up we get a druggie soccer player against two stunning World Athletes. in other words play two athletes off against one soccer player by spliting the vote.

Whoever is orchestrating the lineups is either very naive or just straight trying to manipulate the process.

Oh good someone's finally put Maradona's second handball in a world cup - in 1990 - on you tube. I've been waiting for that for years to be honest. Quality's poor though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruCe_ovwtdw

By the look of the score - i.e. a less than comprehensive victory for Maradona against globally lesser known opponents - I can see him coming in fo trouble when he comes up against a real big hitter in this competition.

marradona reminds me of senna in a way.

Massive egos(think they are GOD)- did what they wanted in a time where it was viewed as ok as long as you were skillfull..

Cheaters or overly agressive sportsman these days are put in there place..

and as we know there is only one god.

Its Stuart Lancaster

aucklandlaurie wrote: So in this line up we get a druggie soccer player against two stunning World Athletes. in other words play two athletes off against one soccer player by spliting the vote.

Whoever is orchestrating the lineups is either very naive or just straight trying to manipulate the process.

+1. Maradona had exceptional talent but tarnished it beyond redemption through cheating on the pitch and, frankly, micturating [1] it away off the pitch. How can you even compare that to a guy who was unbeaten for 12 years, and another who trained three times on Christmas Day to get an edge on his competition?


[1] Look it up, if you can't guess.