Ulster vs Ospreys

Game on Friday, another sell-out crowd, but like everyone else we're scrabbling around with the Six Nations and injuries, trying to make ends meet. Declan Fitzpatrick, Rory Best, Chris Henry, Iain Henderson, Paddy Jackson and Craig Gilroy are all with the national side. John Afoa and Jared Payne are on leave to ensure they stay fresh on the home straight of the season. And Adam Macklin, Paddy McAllister, Stephen Ferris, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson, Tommy Bowe, Chris Farrell, Peter Nelson and Adam D'Arcy are all still injured.

Selection is further complicated by the news that Darren Cave and Andrew Trimble have been called into the Ireland squad as cover for Earls and D'Arcy- they are included here but aren't likely to be released from tacklebag duty until Thursday.

Forwards (14)

Nigel Brady, Rob Herring, Niall Annett, Callum Black, Ricky Lutton, Andrew Warwick, Tom Court, Lewis Stevenson, Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Mike McComish Robbie Diack, Ali Birch.

Backs (11)

Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Niall O’Connor, Stuart Olding, Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Michael Allen, Andrew Trimble, Chris Cochrane, Ricky Andrew.

There is some good news- Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy and Luke Marshall are back and available for selection. But it's a squad with no recognised tighthead, only 3 recognised backrows and only one recognised fullback. Of the props, it is to be hoped Tom Court stays at loosehead- the joke of trying him at 3 is testament to how we will fail to get the best out of him in that position and would further damage his international chances. Of the 4 looseheads in the squad the burden will probably fall on Richard Lutton to wear the 3 shirt with 21 year-old Prop/Hooker Andrew Warwick covering for him on the bench.

I would move the hard-grafting Neil McComb to the blindside flanker as a lineout option and a ball carrier, given how light we are in the backrow. With Jackson missing at 10, it's a good opportunity to look at Stuart Olding outside Ruan Pienaar and Luke Marshall to come off the bench.

Notchs XV;

1. Tom Court
2. Nigel Brady
3. Richard Lutton
4. Johann Muller (c)
5. Dan Tuohy
6. Neil McComb
7. Mike McComish
8. Robbie Diack
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Stuart Olding
11. Andrew Trimble
12. Paddy Wallace
13. Darren Cave
14. Michael Allen
15. Ricky Andrew

16. Rob Herring 17. Andrew Warwick 18. Callum Black 19. Lewis Stevenson 20. Ali Birch 21. Paul Marshall 22. Luke Marshall 23. Chris Cochrane.

Cave and Trimble called up to the Ireland squad as injury cover...will this affect their involvement?

I think it's my B'day on Friday so I really should try and get to this....

It's sold out rodders.

I've got to think McFadden and Fitzgerald are ahead of them in the pecking order- if they aren't released I'll be furious unless they make the matchday squad. They are already holding back Henderson and Jackson for the experience and as injury cover. Holding Trimble and Cave back for tacklebag duty when we have a massive game against a playoff rival...

Luke Marshall back from injury surprised he hasn't been called up to ireland squad as well, so DK can look at more 12 options.

ospreys are prob due to put out someting similar, lots of players called up, I'm surprised Panye and Afoa are both given time home these are the games for me that NIQ players are most important, leading the younger players.

But I trust Humph knows whats best to keep the players happy and the coaches happy.


jsut wondering, would it be wrhwhile after the league when top 4 play off, if next 4 played of for a shield, curently it would be Scarlets/Munster/Blues/Treviso?

Truth is Afoa and Payne play nearly every game. No-one can play 80 minutes in 30 games. Truth be told, Payne has been playing through an injury too. He needs rested.

Kingshu wrote:Luke Marshall back from injury surprised he hasn't been called up to ireland squad as well, so DK can look at more 12 options.

McSharry got the nod this time.

Notch wrote:It's sold out rodders.

I've got to think McFadden and Fitzgerald are ahead of them in the pecking order- if they aren't released I'll be furious unless they make the matchday squad. They are already holding back Henderson and Jackson for the experience and as injury cover. Holding Trimble and Cave back for tacklebag duty when we have a massive game against a playoff rival...

Notch - http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2013/0205/1224329683413.html

Earls and Darcy are doubts. Cave needed to be called up and Trimble too. If they are both missing then we need cover.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:It's sold out rodders.

I've got to think McFadden and Fitzgerald are ahead of them in the pecking order- if they aren't released I'll be furious unless they make the matchday squad. They are already holding back Henderson and Jackson for the experience and as injury cover. Holding Trimble and Cave back for tacklebag duty when we have a massive game against a playoff rival...

Notch - http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2013/0205/1224329683413.html

Earls and Darcy are doubts. Cave needed to be called up and Trimble too. If they are both missing then we need cover.

Stag, do you actually understand the context here? Or are you just now being sanctimonious for the sake of it? Do I honestly need to explain this to you?

We need cover for training. We need deep cover. Not for the matchday squad. The cover is already in the squad of 33 which didn't include Cave or Trimble. McSharry, Fitzgerald and McFadden are fit after all. One of those three slots into D'Arcys spot for training this week whilst Cave and Trimble slot into the team which is to play the role of the opposition. I've no problem with Trimble and Cave going down to make up the numbers in training for the national team, they are needed to make sure we can have 15 vs 15 in camp up until Thursday. But if they don't play for Ulster this weekend it's frankly ridiculous.

We have a squad of 33! They have a whole shadow XV already in camp. Fitzgerald and McFadden are in the squad as cover. They just need people to hold tacklebags, is all. And I've no problem for them missing training but when it comes to cover for the matchday squad you need 2 or 3 guys in case of injury. You do NOT need 10-15 players sitting on their hands.

It's better for as many players outside the matchday squad as possible to get gametime. How can you make your case for a recall if you're not playing? They will be released to play for Ulster, as they are surplus to requirements. I'm nearly sure of it. But if Kidney is holding back more players than he needs he's just messing with the provinces for no reason.

How can you criticise the Pro12 for lacking intensity and then sign off on players not needed for national teams not getting to play because they are covering for the players who are covering for the players who are probably going to be alright? No questions asked? You say you want this league to be successful but it seems that you preach something else. Fair enough- games during the Six Nations are going to be missing internationals, but if we want this league to be a success we can't have guys sitting out at the weekend for no reason.

Irish Rugby is a balancing act; the needs of the national team versus the needs of the provinces. It has to go both ways, there has to be some give and take.

News later this week will be Trimble dropped from squad AGAIN.

rodders wrote:Cave and Trimble called up to the Ireland squad as injury cover...will this affect their involvement?

I think it's my B'day on Friday so I really should try and get to this....

One of my brothers Birthday too and the guy who sits beside me in work.

Notch. All I can say is. If Ulster lose to the Ospreys at the weekend.... So what?

They can afford to lose the game. If Leinster lose to Cardiff I won't care about the 5 Leinster players that are holding the bags either, and we can not afford to lose like Ulster can.

If however Ireland lose to England. I will be seriously pi$$ed off.

If those 5 players can make a 0.000000000001% difference to Ireland's performance, then it's well worth the sacrifice.

One minute you are moaning that Ulster players can't get in the Ireland team, the next you are begrudging a few.

You're playing senior hurling now. You have to get used to the sacrifice.

So what?

It's a game at Ravenhill, sold-out crowd. Thats so what! Bottom line is its at Ravenhill. We DO NOT lose at Ravenhill. There are no dead rubbers in an Ulster jersey and of some other teams had that attitude towards the Pro12 we wouldn't be 11 points ahead.

Honestly, if Ulster lose at Ravenhill I'm peed off. If Ireland lose, I'm just as peed off and no more. I don't care if it's a Pro12 games for Ulster or a Heineken Cup final. We go out to win and a 0.000001% improvement for Ireland isn't going to make me care about that bottom line. Not when we're happy to not look for bigger improvements in the national side elsewhere in terms of coaching. The defeat to Northampton Saints and the loss to Treviso way back during the Rugby World Cup are still with us, the hurt from those is still real. No way am I going to be happy if another one gets added to it even if we walk the rest of the league AND Cup.

If they want our boys for playing rugby, they're welcome to them. But no- I'm not gonna be happy if they are sitting watching the game in the stand.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:One minute you are moaning that Ulster players can't get in the Ireland team, the next you are begrudging a few.

And this is unfair as well. I would be incredibly delighted for Darren or Andrew if they had a chance of representing Ireland in the next test match. We all know that they don't, so don't try put that on me. I want as many of our guys to play test rugby as possible.

But IF they are recalled I will be delighted and I will not resent them missing the Ospreys game. Thats not about Ireland first, thats about me supporting our lads. IF they are kept back from playing for Ulster but don't get a cap for their troubles- someones messed up, because no-one benefits from that. Not the players, not the province, and not even the country once the hard work in training has been done earlier in the week.

I'm going down to support Ireland against England as an Ireland fan, my country is important to me. But I'm not going to prioritise it ahead of my province and I'm not going to apologise for that. This weekend I have two games I'm attending that matter equally to me. Two teams that are going out to give everything because of the honour of being called to wear the jersey and the opposition doesn't change it.

Notch wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:One minute you are moaning that Ulster players can't get in the Ireland team, the next you are begrudging a few.

And this is unfair as well. I would be incredibly delighted for Darren or Andrew if they had a chance of representing Ireland in the next test match. We all know that they don't, so don't try put that on me. I want as many of our guys to play test rugby as possible.

But IF they are recalled I will be delighted and I will not resent them missing the Ospreys game. Thats not about Ireland first, thats about me supporting our lads. IF they are kept back from playing for Ulster but don't get a cap for their troubles- someones messed up, because no-one benefits from that. Not the players, not the province, and not even the country once the hard work in training has been done earlier in the week.

I'm going down to support Ireland against England as an Ireland fan, my country is important to me. But I'm not going to prioritise it ahead of my province and I'm not going to apologise for that. This weekend I have two games I'm attending that matter equally to me. Two teams that are going out to give everything because of the honour of being called to wear the jersey and the opposition doesn't change it.

Very disappointing attitude. "My Johnny can be in the school play if he gets one of the lead roles, but if he has to be in the chorus you can feck off"

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:One minute you are moaning that Ulster players can't get in the Ireland team, the next you are begrudging a few.

And this is unfair as well. I would be incredibly delighted for Darren or Andrew if they had a chance of representing Ireland in the next test match. We all know that they don't, so don't try put that on me. I want as many of our guys to play test rugby as possible.

But IF they are recalled I will be delighted and I will not resent them missing the Ospreys game. Thats not about Ireland first, thats about me supporting our lads. IF they are kept back from playing for Ulster but don't get a cap for their troubles- someones messed up, because no-one benefits from that. Not the players, not the province, and not even the country once the hard work in training has been done earlier in the week.

I'm going down to support Ireland against England as an Ireland fan, my country is important to me. But I'm not going to prioritise it ahead of my province and I'm not going to apologise for that. This weekend I have two games I'm attending that matter equally to me. Two teams that are going out to give everything because of the honour of being called to wear the jersey and the opposition doesn't change it.

Very disappointing attitude. "My Johnny can be in the school play if he gets one of the lead roles, but if he has to be in the chorus you can feck off"

Bollacks. They're not in the chorus, they're in the crowd. If there's any chance at all- at all- they get gametime, I'm okay with it. I've already said I'm okay with them training Monday to Thursday. You can take my attitude or leave it but I won't tolerate being lectured on it when I'm shelling out every season to go down to Dublin and support this team.

Decaln Kidney does not need a 40-man squad for anything that happens after the Captains run on Friday. Bottom line. Right now he needs them for training, but come the weekend they are surplus to requirements- so we need them back. If he wants them to play, then they should play.

This is a big game in the context of the Pro12, potential rehearsal for the Final and the fans deserve to see the best possible team.

I'll re phrase then "My Johnny can be in the school play if he gets one of the lead roles, but if he has to be designing the set you can feck off"

Training Monday to Thursday is all they will have to do.

Schmidt never starts a player that doesn't train with the squad all week though. Perhaps Anscome is the same?

Bench at best for those players.

The only players that would be kept out (that are not in the 23) would be perhaps a utility back like Ferg or Luke, an out half (Paddy J) and a front and back rower I would guess, for injury in the warm up or slip in the shower cover.

Without wanting to get into a dick measuring contest over who does the most for the nat squad.

Here are the extra players that are in there.

Michael Bent
Iain Henderson
Tom Court
Mike Sherry
Devin Toner
Dave McSharry
Luke Fitzgerald
Kevin McLaughlin
Fergus McFadden
Paddy Jackson

The 2 props have been released back to their provinces for gametime.

And these lads have been added.

Robbie Henshaw
Darren Cave
Andrew Trimble
Rhys Ruddock

Iain Henderson and Paddy Jackson are being held back with the squad. Fair enough, those guys are going to be mainstays of the Ireland team over the next decade. They are being kept close for the experience with half an eye on their futures- I would just balance that by saying that hopefully they'll be released for the visit of Zebre next weekend (and probably they will be), otherwise they could go a bit too long without any gametime. And obviously the four lads who were in the matchday squad last week will continue.

I was hoping Tom Court would get recalled also but he is with Ulster this week. Better than than holding tacklebags, but it's hard not to feel for him. He deserves it more than anyone on form.

Anscombe maybe wouldn't go with players who missed training usually but it's not like he has a choice this time. We're already missing too many players. I'm sure they will both start if available- at this stage, they can slot straight in as they are both first team regulars.

Notch wrote:

This is a big game in the context of the Pro12, potential rehearsal for the Final and the fans deserve to see the best possible team.

The O's would want to be winning this so if they want to be in the final. They have their normal "horrendous run in"

Anyway, we are coming up to put manners on yiz. Amlin Champs beat the HC Champs in away final is the Headline.

It will be hard to compete in the Pro12 final if we make it to the Heineken Cup final, history shows that.

Of course, if the final is at Ravenhill it gives us a great chance anyway. I think we will win the Pro12 but fall in the semi-final to Toulon.

Notch wrote:Iain Henderson and Paddy Jackson are being held back with the squad. Fair enough, those guys are going to be mainstays of the Ireland team over the next decade. They are being kept close for the experience with half an eye on their futures- I would just balance that by saying that hopefully they'll be released for the visit of Zebre next weekend (and probably they will be), otherwise they could go a bit too long without any gametime. And obviously the four lads who were in the matchday squad last week will continue.

I was hoping Tom Court would get recalled also but he is with Ulster this week. Better than than holding tacklebags, but it's hard not to feel for him. He deserves it more than anyone on form.

Anscombe maybe wouldn't go with players who missed training usually but it's not like he has a choice this time. We're already missing too many players. I'm sure they will both start if available- at this stage, they can slot straight in as they are both first team regulars.

Holding tacklebags is a worthwhile job.

There is a structure to this. Ireland > Provinces > Under 20s > A Squads > AIL > etc.

No one is complaining that the U20s will be missing Olding as he has a job to do sitting on the bench for Ulster. He may well have no part to play at all, or he may start (I would start Marshall and Pienaar as halfbacks)

Everyone bar the Irish starting 15 will be released for gametime next week I would imagine.

I would have Court on the bench for this one too. He is currently a better scrumager than Killer, and that could well be important v England

Notch wrote:It will be hard to compete in the Pro12 final if we make it to the Heineken Cup final, history shows that.

Who are yah tellin. We have lost every single Magners/Rabo final that has ever happened.

Notch wrote:
Of course, if the final is at Ravenhill it gives us a great chance anyway. I think we will win the Pro12 but fall in the semi-final to Toulon.

Are you not in Lansdowne rd for the semi if you beat Sarries? Toulon won't have a hope there. All us lot will be there shouting for yiz too.

I will hold back on predictions to I see who is coming back from Ireland duty. I would hope we can win whoever we put out, good chance for the likes of McComish, McComb, Birch, Olding etc. SUFTUM as for Ireland hope they win too I have been telling my Guernsey friend he is French all week so if Englnd win I am in for quite the earful lol

Yes, actually we are very lucky- third consecutive year we've drawn a Dublin semi-final and a handy draw.

If we had beat Saints in 2011 we would have had Perpignan in Dublin. Would have had a great chance of going to the final then too. Edinburgh in Dublin was a handy draw and this year it's Toulon or Leicester. Both beatable with home advantage.

I suspect you guys are arguing over nothing. Trimble and cave will be released. Only earls is expected to miss out at most and Fitzgerald and McFadden are clearly ahead of the ulster guys.

They will feature for ulster and they should too. Olding will be held back from the U20s as well most likely. Sincerely hope he starts

No one has ever maintained they won't be released.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I'll re phrase then "My Johnny can be in the school play if he gets one of the lead roles, but if he has to be designing the set you can feck off"

Jen, you are speaking nonsense here, and you know your little analogy is weak, so why bother. The thing missing from your analogy is this. Wee Johnny also takes part in his local community centre play and has been given a lead role there. But The school, giving him a job designing the set has, in so doing, forbade him from being included in any other plays.

If you think an Ulster fan wanting two of their nailed on starters to start in a team that will be missing a fair few first choices ahead of holding tackle bags for another team in training is wrong, then I'm baffled. And your claim to superior patriarchy I feel is false and only claimed in a bid to strengthen your argument.

You say its worth it, even if they only help Ireland's performance by 0.000000001%. Not on yer nelly. Of course it's not worth it. Not when he could have AT LEAST a 6.66666666% influence in an Ulster shirt (100 divided by 15).

P.S. You can talk all you want about the national team being the priority of your players, but I'll not be accepting that as a valid excuse for when we finish higher than Leinster in all competitions this year...

I make no apologies for wanting a win in a Pro12 game, and I don't believe the presence of Trimble and Cave in the training squad will have any bearing on the England result.

Clive,

Unfortunately situations like this is part and parcel of being a top team. There are elements that aren't as pleasant as others.

Munster used to have their entire pack and their back up players too all missing for Ireland games. Not just front line guys but backups like Mick O'Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan, Tony Buckley, Frankie Sheahan etc.

Leinster lost 17 guys to the Rugby World Cup last year - doesnt matter who you are thats a big loss.

Whether you accept it as a valid argument or not doesnt matter. Ulsters game with Ospreys or Munsters with Edinburgh or whoever Leinster are playing does not matter to the IRFU compared to the national team.

There are a lot of benefits to players involved in Irish Rugby compared to playing in other countries. But there are some responsibilities too and prioritising the national team has always been one.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:Iain Henderson and Paddy Jackson are being held back with the squad. Fair enough, those guys are going to be mainstays of the Ireland team over the next decade. They are being kept close for the experience with half an eye on their futures- I would just balance that by saying that hopefully they'll be released for the visit of Zebre next weekend (and probably they will be), otherwise they could go a bit too long without any gametime. And obviously the four lads who were in the matchday squad last week will continue.

I was hoping Tom Court would get recalled also but he is with Ulster this week. Better than than holding tacklebags, but it's hard not to feel for him. He deserves it more than anyone on form.

Anscombe maybe wouldn't go with players who missed training usually but it's not like he has a choice this time. We're already missing too many players. I'm sure they will both start if available- at this stage, they can slot straight in as they are both first team regulars.

Holding tacklebags is a worthwhile job.

There is a structure to this. Ireland > Provinces > Under 20s > A Squads > AIL > etc.

+ 1

It's not only worthwhile, its a vital job to help the team who take the field prepare and also to have additional players run through the training drills in case of any unforseen injuries.

The players called up are also a step closer to selection than if they aren't, which is what many posters where up in arms about not so long ago. If there are injuries during the week then Trimble could well find himself on the bench or even starting.

Some would argue that contributing to Ireland preparing for a crucial 6N game, a game that could well lead to a championship/triple crown/GS, and thus contribute significantly to all the provinces financially, is a bigger honor and much more important in the bigger scheme of things than helping win 4 or 5 points in the pro 12.

Thats not to dismiss the importance of this game and pro12 generally but if anyone is under any illusion as to where a significant amount of the £'s comes from to pay the wages of Bowe, Pienaar, Afoa, Ferris, Muller etc. and helps produce young guys like Jackson, Gilroy, Marshall via the academy then they need to read the IRFUs financial statement again.

It sure as flip all doesn't come from the 12,000 odd ticket holders, Laverys bar, fona cabs,DCAL, BT or BBCNI .... mind you maths isn't my strong point....

SUFTUM .

Hear hear Rodders!

I don't think anyone is suggesting that those guys shouldn't be holding tackle bags this week. Nor that it is not an honour to get called up to the squad even if the chances of playing are slim/virtually non-existant.

The only issue would be if those guys were not released back for the match once thier tackle pad holding duties are complete.

To suggest that feeling that way is somehow unpatriotic is unfair.

Any player who is not in the squad or there as an injury back up should (and almost certainly will) be released to their province.

I too would feel agrieved if they are sitting in Lansdowne watching in their suits rather than watching from their own home with an ice-pack on the sore bits after playing for Ulster the night before.

If they are needed in Dublin, absolutely keep them. If they are not then send them back.

Can't say fairer than that MrsP.

MrsP wrote:I don't think anyone is suggesting that those guys shouldn't be holding tackle bags this week. Nor that it is not an honour to get called up to the squad even if the chances of playing are slim/virtually non-existant.

The only issue would be if those guys were not released back for the match once thier tackle pad holding duties are complete.

To suggest that feeling that way is somehow unpatriotic is unfair.

Any player who is not in the squad or there as an injury back up should (and almost certainly will) be released to their province.

I too would feel agrieved if they are sitting in Lansdowne watching in their suits rather than watching from their own home with an ice-pack on the sore bits after playing for Ulster the night before.

If they are needed in Dublin, absolutely keep them. If they are not then send them back.

Rugby is a squad game Mrs P. It's not just about the 15 players who take the field or even the match day 23. Everyone involved in the training squad, whether they are in suits or tracksuits come matchday are needed and contribute to the performance in someway through their contribution in the preparation.

Experienced players are needed for drills - to hold bags, simulate the opposition, push the incumbents on, set peice practice, encourage and provide input and feedback into the preperation. To dismiss this as just tackle bag holding as some have is total nonsence, additional players are needed for this role and to help create a good competitive but supportive squad enviroment which is vital for helping whoever takes the field perform.

If there are concerns about the fitness of certain players then there must be players ready to step in from within the squad. That means not playing on Friday/Saturday if the game is Sunday.

Therefore whoever is called up is needed, that is why they are there. If they aren't released then it means they are still needed regardless of whether they play this weekend or not.

That's just it. Jackson and Henderson are injury back up. Trimble an Cave aren't and wouldn't be there but for earls and D'arcy not being able to train. They will be released for Ulster as both the injured guys are expected to be fit. It's all good.

I see henshaw will be released to the under 20's as well this Friday

Some things seam a bit odd, Leinster and Munster and ourselves and been having players called up to Ireland squads for years and not used.

how many times has P.Wallace travelled in case someone on the bench gets injured, and watched from the stands?

Why do some feel an issue with DK calling up Cave and Trimble, maybe keeping them for the weekend maybe not, and they may not make the bench.
Argument being Ulster need the senior players more than ireland need them to sit in the stand.

Notch wrote:

This is a big game in the context of the Pro12, potential rehearsal for the Final and the fans deserve to see the best possible team.

So then why is nobody annoyed that Afoa and Panye have been allowed to travel home, in this the time of year we would be expecting Ulster players to be called up to training squads, and they would contribute to a best possible team, and not be at risk of call ups.
During these windows the provinces best players are the NIQ ones, and the IQ best IQ ones will be called up.

Nobody has complained that these two will be missing, as they are in need of a break,

If the National team of Coaches feel that they need a player then they can take them and I have no issues with that, there should be no complaints if an IQ player is missing because the national team feel they need them, a NIQ player given time off during the season, in games when there leadership and experience is required is a bigger deal.

But even this NIQ being allowed home is a non issue for me. IQ players being called up and maybe missing the weekend is another non issue.

I've got it!

some sort of free standing, spring loaded tackle bag!

OR

Couldn't we get the Ireland Womens XV involved

clivemcl wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I'll re phrase then "My Johnny can be in the school play if he gets one of the lead roles, but if he has to be designing the set you can feck off"

Jen, you are speaking nonsense here, and you know your little analogy is weak, so why bother. The thing missing from your analogy is this. Wee Johnny also takes part in his local community centre play and has been given a lead role there. But The school, giving him a job designing the set has, in so doing, forbade him from being included in any other plays.

If you think an Ulster fan wanting two of their nailed on starters to start in a team that will be missing a fair few first choices ahead of holding tackle bags for another team in training is wrong, then I'm baffled. And your claim to superior patriarchy I feel is false and only claimed in a bid to strengthen your argument.

You say its worth it, even if they only help Ireland's performance by 0.000000001%. Not on yer nelly. Of course it's not worth it. Not when he could have AT LEAST a 6.66666666% influence in an Ulster shirt (100 divided by 15).

P.S. You can talk all you want about the national team being the priority of your players, but I'll not be accepting that as a valid excuse for when we finish higher than Leinster in all competitions this year...

I make no apologies for wanting a win in a Pro12 game, and I don't believe the presence of Trimble and Cave in the training squad will have any bearing on the England result.

It is more like Johnny has a part in a play where him and his brothers & sisters are putting on a show for their Granny.

Something which is very important to his family, the school are sympathetic to, and will let him go home before the school play to take part in when he has finished building.

But the rest of the school while they wish him well and hope his Granny loves his play don't put it ahead of their set building efforts.

Point I was making was, the Ireland coach while he hopes Ulster win v the Ospreys, can't let that interfere with his prep for the national team even for a second. Nor should he be expected to.

Ulster fans are only just coming to terms with this one. As they begin to contribute more players to the national team which their improved status befits.

Stag and Munster have seen it all before, and probably smiled slightly as Leinster fans grapled with it over the last few years.

It's the price of sucess, and if Little Johnny (just to strain the last drop out of this metaphor) was not such a good set designer aswell as an actor then.............

Exactly....there is no issue.... if there is one its the wider issue of playing club fixtures during international windows and the general structuring of the season ....... but hey ho money talks and even kidders can't be blamed for this one.....

MrsP wrote:I don't think anyone is suggesting that those guys shouldn't be holding tackle bags this week. Nor that it is not an honour to get called up to the squad even if the chances of playing are slim/virtually non-existant.

The only issue would be if those guys were not released back for the match once thier tackle pad holding duties are complete.

To suggest that feeling that way is somehow unpatriotic is unfair.

Any player who is not in the squad or there as an injury back up should (and almost certainly will) be released to their province.

I too would feel agrieved if they are sitting in Lansdowne watching in their suits rather than watching from their own home with an ice-pack on the sore bits after playing for Ulster the night before.

If they are needed in Dublin, absolutely keep them. If they are not then send them back.

Precisely my point.

Kingshu wrote:Notch wrote:

This is a big game in the context of the Pro12, potential rehearsal for the Final and the fans deserve to see the best possible team.

So then why is nobody annoyed that Afoa and Panye have been allowed to travel home,

Because they need the break- I'm not happy about it, but we all know that players can't play every game of the club season and maintain the same high level of performance. They need to peak at the right time.

Compared to Afoa and Payne, Trimble and Cave have had plenty of rest. Those first two have played virtually every minute of every game so far. And payne was playing through an injury. Something's got to give.

Notch - I agree with that sentiment.

But what if the team doesn't know? If Darcy and Earls are both injured then it probably puts McFadden and Fitzgerald into the match day squad.

But what happens on 24 hours before the game or on match day when Gilroy does his hamstring in training or Kearney gets a severe vomiting bug. Same for Rhys Ruddock - Peter O'Mahony is being treated this week for consussion and has had limited training.

Freddy Puccariello once famously was sitting in the stand before a Munster Heineken Cup quarter final against Gloucester. We got injuries in the warm up and he was hauled from his seat and started the game.

Henshaw, Cave and Trimble could well have a role to play.

If Ireland don't need them they should of course be allowed to go home. But what if we don't know?

Notch wrote:

MrsP wrote:I don't think anyone is suggesting that those guys shouldn't be holding tackle bags this week. Nor that it is not an honour to get called up to the squad even if the chances of playing are slim/virtually non-existant.

The only issue would be if those guys were not released back for the match once thier tackle pad holding duties are complete.

To suggest that feeling that way is somehow unpatriotic is unfair.

Any player who is not in the squad or there as an injury back up should (and almost certainly will) be released to their province.

I too would feel agrieved if they are sitting in Lansdowne watching in their suits rather than watching from their own home with an ice-pack on the sore bits after playing for Ulster the night before.

If they are needed in Dublin, absolutely keep them. If they are not then send them back.

Precisely my point.

No your point was that if they weren't picked for the match day squad against England then they should be released. However if there are concerns about Earls and D'arcy then they may well be needed in Dublin, possibly until Sunday.

No one wants to see that but its the nature of the game and all the stakeholders involved will be well used to this scenario.

I appreciate that the timing of the Ulster and Ireland fixtures make it a bit more awkward to release all the players who may not be involved.

Let's just hope both teams get to put out the best teams they can and beat the opposition!

Another question though.

How long will it be before the fans of Munster and Leinster stop talking to the fans of Ulster in that patronising way that big brothers talk to their little brothers?

Just asking like!







Don't hit me or I'm telling!!!!

Muuuuuummmmmmm!!!!!!

MrsP wrote:How long will it be before the fans of Munster and Leinster stop talking to the fans of Ulster in that patronising way that big brothers talk to their little brothers?

The long answer is when we behave in a manner that deserves it and accept that we get a good deal generally within the Irish rugby setup and learn to take the rough with the smooth when things don't appear to go our way (though maybe this applies to fans across all the provinces bar Connacht).

The short answer is at the end of may when we've done the double .

Not wanting to sound harsh here but the Ospreys are missing a fair number too. The missing players could put out a side looking along the lines off

Ryan Bevington,
Richard Hibbard,
Adam Jones
Ian Evans,
Alun Wyn Jones
James King,
Justin Tipuric,
Ryan Jones
A.N.Other
Dan Biggar
Eli Walker
Ashley Beck
A.N.Other
Ashley Evans
A.N.Other

And that is not including any injuries either.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

MrsP wrote:I don't think anyone is suggesting that those guys shouldn't be holding tackle bags this week. Nor that it is not an honour to get called up to the squad even if the chances of playing are slim/virtually non-existant.

The only issue would be if those guys were not released back for the match once thier tackle pad holding duties are complete.

To suggest that feeling that way is somehow unpatriotic is unfair.

Any player who is not in the squad or there as an injury back up should (and almost certainly will) be released to their province.

I too would feel agrieved if they are sitting in Lansdowne watching in their suits rather than watching from their own home with an ice-pack on the sore bits after playing for Ulster the night before.

If they are needed in Dublin, absolutely keep them. If they are not then send them back.

Precisely my point.

No your point was that if they weren't picked for the match day squad against England then they should be released. However if there are concerns about Earls and D'arcy then they may well be needed in Dublin, possibly until Sunday.

No one wants to see that but its the nature of the game and all the stakeholders involved will be well used to this scenario.

This is wrong. They won't be needed after Thursday. They will be needed if there are concerns over Earls, D'Arcy, McSharry, Fitzgerald and McFadden. Three of them have no doubts hanging over their heads.

Don't try and tell me what my point is, please. I think that this thread is absolutely ridiculous. I made the point that it would be frustrating if Trimble and Cave are held back on Friday night despite not even being considered as part of Ireland back-up XV and having a number of fit players ahead of them in the pecking order and suddenly people are queuing up to condemn me for something which, as far as I can tell, you all agree with.

Notch - if Earls and Darcy are out/doubts then both of Fitzgerald and McFadden will start. That puts McSharry on the bench.

If we assume that Earls and Darcy are missing (which is what any responsible team has to do - cover the worst case scenario) then we need someone to be available as one injury will see McSharry starting and nobody on the bench.

For instance you come in with a remark like this;

The players called up are also a step closer to selection than if they aren't, which is what many posters where up in arms about not so long ago. If there are injuries during the week then Trimble could well find himself on the bench or even starting.

As if it's something you'd expect me to a) not have considered and b) disagree with.

How patronising can you get? I've made it clear time and time again that my only problem is if they are held back when they are no longer needed.