Lion 10?

First topic message reminder :

What does people in UK / Ireland want to be 10 lions?

In italia we watch lion too (us who play rugby).
For me and many other Farrell is perfect player!!!

beshocked wrote:Have you got any stats to back up your statement about Sexton being a better tackler? I would say they are both very good. Hard to compare.

I basing that comment on emperical evidence. Like I said though its not like Farrell is a bad tackler. Actually he is very good. It is just one of Sexton's real strengths and is consistently an area that pundits and analysts alike praise Sexton. Im not sure Farrell has made as big an impression in this rugby dicipline.

according to the RFU website Owen Farrell has a 82% success rate with the boot since his debut in the 6N last year.

That's pretty decent for test rugby let alone a debut year... in the SH no one has a better rate bar Peter Grant (ave. is about 86% for the last 3 SR seasons... thats club rugby (less pressure) and he doesn't take LR kicks either... Joe Pietersen slots those for the Stormers).

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell is England's 10, Burns would be on the bench if not injured. Facts, remember them.

Not a fact at all. Its highly unlikely Burns wouldve got picked ahead of Flood, who had been first choice till he was injured. Indeed its unlikely that Farrell wouldve won back the place he lost to Flood through form and ability had Flood not got injured pre New Zealand. Even if Farrell had replaced Flood for NZ Burns would not have got on the bench.
Theres a lot of ridiculous hype around him at the minute, hes only ever been selected in one matchday sqaud by Lancaster and that was because of injury and a retirement to two players who Lancaster had consistently picked ahead of him previously Not to mention the drop in form of Clegg who was Lancasters old Saxons fly half and Ford who was supposed to be the new messiah.
Theres little evidence that Burns is suddenly elevated to godhead status in the minds of the England coaches, more that he was literally the only player that he had available to act as a back up fly half in the EPS once Hodgson had gone. Its only in the minds of a few internerds that Freddie Burns is suddenly the new Dan Carter and wouldve been named Lions captain by now if he hadnt got injured.

Thanks to Farrells performances and form he is now again clearly first choice, Flood second. Unless Farrell gets injured I dont see that changing during the 6 nations.
Both Sexton and Farrell have pretty much booked their flights to NZ. Theres a third spot up for grabs, Floods got a chance at that largely due to the lack of competition coming from ROG ( Mr experience), anyone whos remotely Scottish, and the inability of anyone to nail down the Wales jersey (Biggar has a chance of proving himself, personally I dont think hes anything more than a decent club player but he has the chance to prove me wrong). Fringe players like Burns will likely only get a chance through injuries and then would have to do something pretty remarkable to push themselves into contention. At least Flood has the HC knockouts to showcase his big game form, and is long term proven international.

Theres two stand out candidates, behind that the cupboard is pretty bare. But we dont really need three world class fly halves, two should be enough. Wildcard option, Wilko. There ..I said it

INTERESTING QUESTION

What if Sexton or Farrell have poor other 4 games for the six nations?

What if Biggar has 4 world class games for Wales?

Could everything change quickly with Lions??

What if Gatland wins the euro millions jackpot and retires early?


I think the world would be very surprised.

Has Gatland not retired now already?

I'm thinking there's a ghost in the room

How nice to have an Italian join our ranks here at 606v2.

Welcome Vincenzo, it will be delightful to get your Italian insights and viewpoint on the the 6N and all things rugby and in such a delightful accent to boot.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I'm thinking there's a ghost in the room

Yep.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell is England's 10, Burns would be on the bench if not injured. Facts, remember them.

Not a fact at all. Its highly unlikely Burns wouldve got picked ahead of Flood, who had been first choice till he was injured. Indeed its unlikely that Farrell wouldve won back the place he lost to Flood through form and ability had Flood not got injured pre New Zealand. Even if Farrell had replaced Flood for NZ Burns would not have got on the bench.
Theres a lot of ridiculous hype around him at the minute, hes only ever been selected in one matchday sqaud by Lancaster and that was because of injury and a retirement to two players who Lancaster had consistently picked ahead of him previously Not to mention the drop in form of Clegg who was Lancasters old Saxons fly half and Ford who was supposed to be the new messiah.
Theres little evidence that Burns is suddenly elevated to godhead status in the minds of the England coaches, more that he was literally the only player that he had available to act as a back up fly half in the EPS once Hodgson had gone. Its only in the minds of a few internerds that Freddie Burns is suddenly the new Dan Carter and wouldve been named Lions captain by now if he hadnt got injured.

Thanks to Farrells performances and form he is now again clearly first choice, Flood second. Unless Farrell gets injured I dont see that changing during the 6 nations.
Both Sexton and Farrell have pretty much booked their flights to NZ. Theres a third spot up for grabs, Floods got a chance at that largely due to the lack of competition coming from ROG ( Mr experience), anyone whos remotely Scottish, and the inability of anyone to nail down the Wales jersey (Biggar has a chance of proving himself, personally I dont think hes anything more than a decent club player but he has the chance to prove me wrong). Fringe players like Burns will likely only get a chance through injuries and then would have to do something pretty remarkable to push themselves into contention. At least Flood has the HC knockouts to showcase his big game form, and is long term proven international.

Theres two stand out candidates, behind that the cupboard is pretty bare. But we dont really need three world class fly halves, two should be enough. Wildcard option, Wilko. There ..I said it

Nice summary. I basically agree. Burns is unproven at international level until he gets his shot. There's generally luck in getting your first opportunity. Okay he had a nice 20 minute cameo vs NZ but more is needed. He was showing good club form but all he can do is continue to graft. I think he can potentially challenge Flood and Farrell for the 10 jersey though.

Farrell has indeed been lucky that Flood has been injured at opportune moments but he's taken them with open arms. Compare that for example to Ford who could with some decent performances both challenge Flood for the Tigers 10 jersey and the England 10 shirt. Another opportunity gone playing for the Saxons. Ford though has a lot of time on his side as he's only 19.

Burns is unfortunate to be injured at this time but an injury to Flood or Farrell will see him right back in the mix.

36 is lucky that Manu was injured vs Scotland so he could at least throw his hat in the ring.

If you get the opportunity to shine you have to make it count. Joseph and Sharples are suffering for not making it count when it mattered.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I'm thinking there's a ghost in the room

We're not allowed to finger other forum members...

Chjw131 wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I'm thinking there's a ghost in the room

We're not allowed to finger other forum members...

Finger? What kind of forum do you think this is? Wouldnt like to smell your finger.

You can't finger a ghost

beshocked wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Farrell is England's 10, Burns would be on the bench if not injured. Facts, remember them.

Not a fact at all. Its highly unlikely Burns wouldve got picked ahead of Flood, who had been first choice till he was injured. Indeed its unlikely that Farrell wouldve won back the place he lost to Flood through form and ability had Flood not got injured pre New Zealand. Even if Farrell had replaced Flood for NZ Burns would not have got on the bench.
Theres a lot of ridiculous hype around him at the minute, hes only ever been selected in one matchday sqaud by Lancaster and that was because of injury and a retirement to two players who Lancaster had consistently picked ahead of him previously Not to mention the drop in form of Clegg who was Lancasters old Saxons fly half and Ford who was supposed to be the new messiah.
Theres little evidence that Burns is suddenly elevated to godhead status in the minds of the England coaches, more that he was literally the only player that he had available to act as a back up fly half in the EPS once Hodgson had gone. Its only in the minds of a few internerds that Freddie Burns is suddenly the new Dan Carter and wouldve been named Lions captain by now if he hadnt got injured.

Thanks to Farrells performances and form he is now again clearly first choice, Flood second. Unless Farrell gets injured I dont see that changing during the 6 nations.
Both Sexton and Farrell have pretty much booked their flights to NZ. Theres a third spot up for grabs, Floods got a chance at that largely due to the lack of competition coming from ROG ( Mr experience), anyone whos remotely Scottish, and the inability of anyone to nail down the Wales jersey (Biggar has a chance of proving himself, personally I dont think hes anything more than a decent club player but he has the chance to prove me wrong). Fringe players like Burns will likely only get a chance through injuries and then would have to do something pretty remarkable to push themselves into contention. At least Flood has the HC knockouts to showcase his big game form, and is long term proven international.

Theres two stand out candidates, behind that the cupboard is pretty bare. But we dont really need three world class fly halves, two should be enough. Wildcard option, Wilko. There ..I said it

Nice summary. I basically agree. Burns is unproven at international level until he gets his shot. There's generally luck in getting your first opportunity. Okay he had a nice 20 minute cameo vs NZ but more is needed. He was showing good club form but all he can do is continue to graft. I think he can potentially challenge Flood and Farrell for the 10 jersey though.

Farrell has indeed been lucky that Flood has been injured at opportune moments but he's taken them with open arms. Compare that for example to Ford who could with some decent performances both challenge Flood for the Tigers 10 jersey and the England 10 shirt. Another opportunity gone playing for the Saxons. Ford though has a lot of time on his side as he's only 19.

Burns is unfortunate to be injured at this time but an injury to Flood or Farrell will see him right back in the mix.

36 is lucky that Manu was injured vs Scotland so he could at least throw his hat in the ring.

If you get the opportunity to shine you have to make it count. Joseph and Sharples are suffering for not making it count when it mattered.

Broadly speaking I agree with both of you, although I am a Burns fan. He had an interesting cameo for NZ but I do think he stood an even chance of beating Flood to the bench for the Scotland game had he been fit.

My reasons for think this are twofold. One I was surprised that Lancs gave him the game time he did against NZ. With the game always potentially in the balance it was a distinct risk to play Burns. Nonetheless he gave him the opportunity (to his credit) and Lancs is big on creating an environment and sense of performance and reward within the team. Given what Burns' seemed to offer in that game he stood a better chance than Flood of making the bench for the Scots game.

Also considering Flood's relatively tepid form during the December and January and the possibility of looking at both Burns and 36 as a club combination I think he had a good chance of pipping Flood.

As far as any Lions talk goes it's pretty much eye wash as far as I can see. From England both Flood and Hodgson would be way ahead of Burns in that regard, perhaps even Wilkinson. (Hodgson would be my choice for the mid-week along with Sexton and Farrell).

GunsGerms wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I'm thinking there's a ghost in the room

We're not allowed to finger other forum members...

Finger? What kind of forum do you think this is? Wouldnt like to smell your finger.

Not many people would I presume. I spend a lot of time in mortuaries. Thus I can attest to the possibility of interacting with a ghost. Just ask Kesha.

Agree with the general consensus that Sexton is still in front but that Farrell is potentially a challenger and at this stage is a probable to tour as the second choice 10. At the start of the season I was worried that if anything happened to Sexton then we were boned so its an significant improvement as far as I'm concerned!

From a selfish point of view I hope Flood tours are 3rd choice so Burns gets the chance as England's first choice 10 on the summer tour, not sure what Flood would gain from what will effectively be a combination of England players not selected for the Lions and Saxons players (minus any players who are given the summer off for R&R).

beshocked wrote:If you get the opportunity to shine you have to make it count. Joseph and Sharples are suffering for not making it count when it mattered.

100% agree. You could also add Monye into that group after his return to the team for the first game of the AI's last year.

I think it is very close between Farrell and Sexton for the Lions 10 shirt. I do agree that Sexton does have more experence than Farrell but Farrell is closing the gap with his quality kicking and tackling.

This sunday could see a class of the titans between the 2 of them and which one will come out on top?

Burns and Flood will need to do alott good games between now and when the squad is named too even get a look in.

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I'm thinking there's a ghost in the room

Yep.

Nope, that was a RogerLewis in the room.

I like the "was" part of that.

Fairly obvious he wasnt Italian anyway.

B91212 wrote:Agree with the general consensus that Sexton is still in front but that Farrell is potentially a challenger and at this stage is a probable to tour as the second choice 10. At the start of the season I was worried that if anything happened to Sexton then we were boned so its an significant improvement as far as I'm concerned!

From a selfish point of view I hope Flood tours are 3rd choice so Burns gets the chance as England's first choice 10 on the summer tour, not sure what Flood would gain from what will effectively be a combination of England players not selected for the Lions and Saxons players (minus any players who are given the summer off for R&R).

From a selfish point of view I hope he gets the summer off altogether. hes been very injury prone ove rthe last few years and perhaps the chance to do some proper rehab, get surgery, or whatever would be beneficial. Flood has a heavy workload at club level, him sitting on the bench rather than starting for england is good news for Tigers who are still in the HC and certain to make the jeff playoffs. Farrell wont have the luxury of a few weeks on the bench through the 6 Ns, and is certain to spend the summer having Aussie club players trying to injure him before the lions tets. He too is facing at least two big knockout games for his club. It could really take its toll on the poor kid who hasnt had a proper break since he became a first team regular for sarries

GunsGerms wrote:

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Ronan O'Gara? I suppose he could be on the list for the 10 jersey....just after Matt Banahan.

Oh how I miss Matt Banahan. Wish he was playing for England on Sunday.

Yes Im sure you do. I never saw Banahan as a winger, never mind a centre. I remember ODriscoll being asked if he was scared or something having to face Banahan in the centres by a donut commenator in a pre match interview. Being diplomatic and discreet ODriscoll said it would be a massive challenge. Inside he must have been Wee weeing himself laughing......

When I saw the centre pairing was going to be Hape and Banahan I was licking my chops. Wish it would be the same for Sunday.

Makes me shudder to think of that partnership. Seriously O' Driscoll must have been delighted.

Who do Italians support when the Lions play?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:From a selfish point of view I hope he gets the summer off altogether. hes been very injury prone ove rthe last few years and perhaps the chance to do some proper rehab, get surgery, or whatever would be beneficial. Flood has a heavy workload at club level, him sitting on the bench rather than starting for england is good news for Tigers who are still in the HC and certain to make the jeff playoffs. Farrell wont have the luxury of a few weeks on the bench through the 6 Ns, and is certain to spend the summer having Aussie club players trying to injure him before the lions tets. He too is facing at least two big knockout games for his club. It could really take its toll on the poor kid who hasnt had a proper break since he became a first team regular for sarries

With you being a Tigers fan I can fully relate to your wish for Flood getting a full summer off. Don't think it will happen though unless he gets injured again and it is enforced, if he doesn't make the Lions squad he will be on stand by at the very least.

Flood, Wilkinson, Tait - all played a lot of top level rugby at a young age and all have suffered more injuries than they should have. Hope the same doesn't happen to young Farrell although like you say he's going to be very busy up until the Lions tour. He may get a little time off from the Jeff with Saracens playing Hodgson at 10 and Tomkins at 13.

beshocked wrote:Let's look at Flood's record for England when he's started recently

SA - 2nd test - England lost

SA - 3rd test - according to faa019 he played for 5 minutes. Draw

Fiji - England won, surprise surprise!

Australia - England lost

South Africa - England lost


In the last two games England scored a grand total of 1 try with Flood running the show.

So your now attributing England's better performances all down to Farrell playing?

Hasn't preistland already been ruled out through injury?

At the moment clear front runner is Sexton with Farrell hot on his heels IMO

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Let's look at Flood's record for England when he's started recently

SA - 2nd test - England lost

SA - 3rd test - according to faa019 he played for 5 minutes. Draw

Fiji - England won, surprise surprise!

Australia - England lost

South Africa - England lost


In the last two games England scored a grand total of 1 try with Flood running the show.

So your now attributing England's better performances all down to Farrell playing?

When did I say it was all down to Farrell? Rugby is a team game. The pack set the platform but Farrell has the made the most of it, particularly with the boot. Plus it's pretty heartening for a forward in a particular if they know that if Farrell is in kickable range he's likely to nail the kick over. You want your hard graft turned into points. Plus you have a fly half who can tackle.

It also makes the opposition wary because they know any penalty they give could be turned into 3 points.

Farrell shows a maturity well beyond his years which I am sure is good for morale.

B191212 you talking about players who are lighter than Farrell too. It makes a difference.

Ultimately Beshocked...let the lions have Flood and Sexton.

It means we can take Farrell and Burns to Argentina and let them progress with the England set up...

No worries...