Lion 10?

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What does people in UK / Ireland want to be 10 lions?

In italia we watch lion too (us who play rugby).
For me and many other Farrell is perfect player!!!

Brendan sorry you are wrong again.

he started vs Italy and Scotland in the centres - yet again proving that Farrell performs far better at 10.

It's funny you criticise Farrell yet it's obvious from this conservation you know little about him.

actually Brendan is right in his question... he has only started 2 games at FH... away from twickenham. He has 4 other starts at FH at home.

Although in the 3rd SA test I believe he came on after 5 mins when flood went off early.

So really he's played 3 full games away at FH.

courtesy of ESPN.

faa019 Brendan didn't say starting at 10. He said starting. Big difference.

3rd SA test? That's the one England drew.

Funny that Farrell's only loss starting at 10 at Twickenham was vs Wales where he easily outplayed Priestland.

I thought thats what Brendan was referring to myself and given it matches it makes sense if so... if no my mistake.

Am I right in saying that Farrell has only started two games away from HQ

This is what Brendan said.

beshocked wrote:Am I right in saying that Farrell has only started two games away from HQ

This is what Brendan said.

As we are talking about FH is it not a given I am talking about him at FH

If he was being talked about as 12/13/15 or were ever else we wanted to play him his games at FH would be irrellavant.

An on Italy and scotland, two wins from the FH hodgson. What did Farrell do in either game of note that would be usefull to know when assessing his FH ability. If anything those to games say how he isn't good without much ball.

Brendan wrote:Am I right in saying that Farrell has only started two games away from HQ. One was against France in Paris and the other he was dropped after it in SA.

For the lions their wont be much cheering him on.

Not sure about that Brendan. In 2001 in Brisbane, the first test v Australia the stadium was filled to the brim with Lions supporters. Way more than Aussie supporters. Joe Roff who played that day said it was the first time in his career that he played a home match away. If anything I predict that there will be more fans there this time round because of the hoards of Irish in Australia.

Also his Drop goal isn't the best if we are going to have a tight game. I just think that people are looking at him from the last two games and not over the whole season. If he is still doing well like he did in his last to games against Ireland France and wales then he should start. Till then I think he is not the best or second best FH for the lions.

Out of curiousity what has sexton's and floods strike rate been in the last five games compared to Farrell.

GunsGerms wrote:

Brendan wrote:Am I right in saying that Farrell has only started two games away from HQ. One was against France in Paris and the other he was dropped after it in SA.

For the lions their wont be much cheering him on.

Not sure about that Brendan. In 2001 in Brisbane, the first test v Australia the stadium was filled to the brim with Lions supporters. Way more than Aussie supporters. Joe Roff who played that day said it was the first time in his career that he played a home match away. If anything I predict that there will be more fans there this time round because of the hoards of Irish in Australia.

How much money did we all have back then. alot went in there gap or holidays. Saying that there are more expats living there then in 2001

Sexton didnt miss any kicks v Wales if I remember correctly.

Ronan O'Gara? I suppose he could be on the list for the 10 jersey....just after Matt Banahan. Farrell and Sexton for the tests and Wilkinson mid week.

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Ronan O'Gara? I suppose he could be on the list for the 10 jersey....just after Matt Banahan.

Oh how I miss Matt Banahan. Wish he was playing for England on Sunday.

Brendan I can't understand the point you are trying to make.

You can't criticise Farrell's ability to play 10 in games he didn't play at 10.

It's the equivalent of saying that Bergamasco is a poor flanker because he had an absolutely shocking game at scrum half or that Brown is a poor full back because he had a poor game on the wing for England. Or even that Monye is an awful winger because he had a poor performance at full back.

Farrell hasn't played many international games away from home but that's because he hasn't got too many caps.

In the game vs France he did well.

What is the story with T14 and Lions. Hines missed Perpigion win because he went on the lions. Toulon are most likely going to make the T14 final, would you go on the lions or go to the T14 with a better chance of winning.

Also can Wilko be selected if he is not getting time with England and if playing in England wouldn't be.

Brendan wrote:What is the story with T14 and Lions. Hines missed Perpigion win because he went on the lions. Toulon are most likely going to make the T14 final, would you go on the lions or go to the T14 with a better chance of winning.

Also can Wilko be selected if he is not getting time with England and if playing in England wouldn't be.

Gatland has strongly hinted that it's about getting the right players to do a one-off job, regardless of factors that would reduce a player's chances of playing for their country. I think Gatts is right with that philosophy. He's not building an empire, it's a bit more of a smash-and-grab job.

Brendan wrote:Also his Drop goal isn't the best if we are going to have a tight game. I just think that people are looking at him from the last two games and not over the whole season. If he is still doing well like he did in his last to games against Ireland France and wales then he should start. Till then I think he is not the best or second best FH for the lions.

Out of curiousity what has sexton's and floods strike rate been in the last five games compared to Farrell.

Brendan sorry but you are just being really silly. Have you actually watched Farrell this season?

Who is the 2nd best fly half then?

Biggar? Flood? Priestland? Burns? Wilkinson? Jackson?

I am seriously struggling to understand your point of view.

Brendan wrote:What is the story with T14 and Lions. Hines missed Perpigion win because he went on the lions. Toulon are most likely going to make the T14 final, would you go on the lions or go to the T14 with a better chance of winning.

Also can Wilko be selected if he is not getting time with England and if playing in England wouldn't be.

Hines really peed of Perpignan when he chose to tour with the Lions rather than stick around for their playoff matches. I think they effectively sacked him at that stage (or certianly didn't offer him a contract extension), apparently BOD told him that he should sign with Leinster the following season, greased the wheels and we signed him up.

beshocked wrote:Brendan I can't understand the point you are trying to make.

You can't criticise Farrell's ability to play 10 in games he didn't play at 10.

It's the equivalent of saying that Bergamasco is a poor flanker because he had an absolutely shocking game at scrum half or that Brown is a poor full back because he had a poor game on the wing for England. Or even that Monye is an awful winger because he had a poor performance at full back.

Farrell hasn't played many international games away from home but that's because he hasn't got too many caps.

In the game vs France he did well.

See you make my point for me. You said he had played games away in Italy and Scotland and I am wrong to say that he only started two games away from home. now you say don't could those games becasue he wasn't FH (which I hadn't counted). Can't have it both ways. Either he played well in one away game he started or my stats are wrong and he played away in SCotland and Italy as well and we must count them.

Let's look at Flood's record for England when he's started recently

SA - 2nd test - England lost

SA - 3rd test - according to faa019 he played for 5 minutes. Draw

Fiji - England won, surprise surprise!

Australia - England lost

South Africa - England lost


In the last two games England scored a grand total of 1 try with Flood running the show.

Sexton in control, but Farrell second choice, clearly, for me.

Farrells doing everythings everyones asking of him thus far? Started solidly, and hes been building his game around that solid start ever since, he's only going to improve.

beshocked wrote:

Brendan wrote:Also his Drop goal isn't the best if we are going to have a tight game. I just think that people are looking at him from the last two games and not over the whole season. If he is still doing well like he did in his last to games against Ireland France and wales then he should start. Till then I think he is not the best or second best FH for the lions.

Out of curiousity what has sexton's and floods strike rate been in the last five games compared to Farrell.

Brendan sorry but you are just being really silly. Have you actually watched Farrell this season?

Who is the 2nd best fly half then?

Biggar? Flood? Priestland? Burns? Wilkinson? Jackson?

I am seriously struggling to understand your point of view.

If I was picking two FH i would go with Flood and sexton. Flood is off form not not terrible.

Farrell has yet to prove to me that he can play on the back foot. he is good as a kicker but that is no reason to start him as Sexton and flood are a kick a game behind him. when his forwards do well he does well. O'Gara offers as much as Farrell as far as i'm concerned excpet tackling.

the improved tries have been more down to the backs then Farrell. How many tries would Flood have got with the backs on form.

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Brendan I can't understand the point you are trying to make.

You can't criticise Farrell's ability to play 10 in games he didn't play at 10.

It's the equivalent of saying that Bergamasco is a poor flanker because he had an absolutely shocking game at scrum half or that Brown is a poor full back because he had a poor game on the wing for England. Or even that Monye is an awful winger because he had a poor performance at full back.

Farrell hasn't played many international games away from home but that's because he hasn't got too many caps.

In the game vs France he did well.

See you make my point for me. You said he had played games away in Italy and Scotland and I am wrong to say that he only started two games away from home. now you say don't could those games becasue he wasn't FH (which I hadn't counted). Can't have it both ways. Either he played well in one away game he started or my stats are wrong and he played away in SCotland and Italy as well and we must count them.

Brendan on the contrary you can't have it both ways.

Farrell did start both games but not at fly half. So he has started 4 games away from home but two at 10. Why should the away thing matter so much to you?

Beshocked as I have stated if he holds his own on sunday and backs it up the following game with france he will be first choice. I just don't think he will.

Ask priestland how easy it is to play with a great pack veruse one that goes backwards.

beshocked wrote:

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Brendan I can't understand the point you are trying to make.

You can't criticise Farrell's ability to play 10 in games he didn't play at 10.

It's the equivalent of saying that Bergamasco is a poor flanker because he had an absolutely shocking game at scrum half or that Brown is a poor full back because he had a poor game on the wing for England. Or even that Monye is an awful winger because he had a poor performance at full back.

Farrell hasn't played many international games away from home but that's because he hasn't got too many caps.

In the game vs France he did well.

See you make my point for me. You said he had played games away in Italy and Scotland and I am wrong to say that he only started two games away from home. now you say don't could those games becasue he wasn't FH (which I hadn't counted). Can't have it both ways. Either he played well in one away game he started or my stats are wrong and he played away in SCotland and Italy as well and we must count them.

Brendan on the contrary you can't have it both ways.

Farrell did start both games but not at fly half. So he has started 4 games away from home but two at 10. Why should the away thing matter so much to you?

Its easy to play well when 60k people cheer your every move and you are surrounded by family before the game and you get told how wonderful you are in the papers.

You don't usually get that when you play away. In Dublin if he makes a mistake the crowd will be on him all game. Ask peopl why they struggle in Thomond Pk so much.

Farrell has yet to prove to me that he can play on the back foot. he is good as a kicker but that is no reason to start him as Sexton and flood are a kick a game behind him. when his forwards do well he does well.

Are you saying Flood is capable of playing in that situation...i dont belive he is at international level...far from it...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Farrell has yet to prove to me that he can play on the back foot. he is good as a kicker but that is no reason to start him as Sexton and flood are a kick a game behind him. when his forwards do well he does well.

Are you saying Flood is capable of playing in that situation...i dont belive he is at international level...far from it...

I would question whether the Lions pack is going to be on the backfoot? For long periods I certainly doubt it.

Brendan wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Brendan wrote:Also his Drop goal isn't the best if we are going to have a tight game. I just think that people are looking at him from the last two games and not over the whole season. If he is still doing well like he did in his last to games against Ireland France and wales then he should start. Till then I think he is not the best or second best FH for the lions.

Out of curiousity what has sexton's and floods strike rate been in the last five games compared to Farrell.

Brendan sorry but you are just being really silly. Have you actually watched Farrell this season?

Who is the 2nd best fly half then?

Biggar? Flood? Priestland? Burns? Wilkinson? Jackson?

I am seriously struggling to understand your point of view.

If I was picking two FH i would go with Flood and sexton. Flood is off form not not terrible.

Farrell has yet to prove to me that he can play on the back foot. he is good as a kicker but that is no reason to start him as Sexton and flood are a kick a game behind him. when his forwards do well he does well. O'Gara offers as much as Farrell as far as i'm concerned excpet tackling.

the improved tries have been more down to the backs then Farrell. How many tries would Flood have got with the backs on form.

You'll have to explain why you would pick Flood. He is no longer first choice England fly half. During the AIs vs Australia and SA with him at 10 England scored 1 try. You could argue his two missed kicks vs SA cost us victory. If Flood rediscovers the form of the past then yes he could challenge Farrell but not on current form.

I don't remember Sexton playing particularly well when his side's scrum was getting pulverised by England at Twickenham in last year's 6 nations.

Which fly half plays well on the back foot? Even Carter's composure failed him vs England.

With Flood your argument is all hypothetical.

flood has played on the back foot plenty of times.

The Oz team will dominate in the loose I think for atleast the first half of each match. not in the scrum but in the breakdown.

Look the only reason Farrell displaced Flood was injury. Flood will be back on form come april. If the last imression of Farrel is losing to at home in the HC again and floods is winning the League who is then the form player for england.


Look we'll leave it as if Farrell does well agaisnt Ireland France and Wales or at least two then he can be first choice.

What was Farrells stike rate in the first SA test in the summer.

Can you please stop showing your ignorance by bringing up that Clermont loss.

Yet again I have to say FARRELL DID NOT START AT 10 VS CLERMONT IN THAT HC QUARTER FINAL!!! Stop using it as a reason for bashing him.

I am talking about now by the way.

You and I are no mystic megs. We don't have crystal balls.

Injury is actually the main reason players get their opportunities. Don't know how you can use that as a criticism of Farrell.

As it stands Farrell is the in form England fly half.

Maybe it won't be the case in April,summer etc. Farrell might pick up an injury. Who knows but currently he's one of the main contenders for the Lions 10 shirt.

Comfort wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Farrell has yet to prove to me that he can play on the back foot. he is good as a kicker but that is no reason to start him as Sexton and flood are a kick a game behind him. when his forwards do well he does well.

Are you saying Flood is capable of playing in that situation...i dont belive he is at international level...far from it...

I would question whether the Lions pack is going to be on the backfoot? For long periods I certainly doubt it.

And i suggest anyone thinking the forward battle is going to be a walk in the park is a little deluded...

Brendan wrote:Look the only reason Farrell displaced Flood was injury. Flood will be back on form come april. If the last imression of Farrel is losing to at home in the HC again and floods is winning the League who is then the form player for england.


Look we'll leave it as if Farrell does well agaisnt Ireland France and Wales or at least two then he can be first choice.

What was Farrells stike rate in the first SA test in the summer.

Farrell is 1st choice for England currently whether you like it or not.

Farrell is England's 10, Burns would be on the bench if not injured. Facts, remember them.

GunsGerms wrote:

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Ronan O'Gara? I suppose he could be on the list for the 10 jersey....just after Matt Banahan.

Oh how I miss Matt Banahan. Wish he was playing for England on Sunday.

Yes Im sure you do. I never saw Banahan as a winger, never mind a centre. I remember ODriscoll being asked if he was scared or something having to face Banahan in the centres by a donut commenator in a pre match interview. Being diplomatic and discreet ODriscoll said it would be a massive challenge. Inside he must have been Wee weeing himself laughing......

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Ronan O'Gara? I suppose he could be on the list for the 10 jersey....just after Matt Banahan.

Oh how I miss Matt Banahan. Wish he was playing for England on Sunday.

Yes Im sure you do. I never saw Banahan as a winger, never mind a centre. I remember ODriscoll being asked if he was scared or something having to face Banahan in the centres by a donut commenator in a pre match interview. Being diplomatic and discreet ODriscoll said it would be a massive challenge. Inside he must have been Wee weeing himself laughing......

When I saw the centre pairing was going to be Hape and Banahan I was licking my chops. Wish it would be the same for Sunday.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

beshocked wrote:Pretty obvious that Sexton is the favourite and deservedly so.

I just don't see it. Sexton is a better running outside half than Farrell, but in all other respects, Farrell is the better player.

Really? Sexton is more experienced, has won more, is as good with the boot, is a better runner and neither are magical passers. Farrell has a great temperament but is inexperienced and unproven as yet.

Farrell may overtake Sexton - but he is a long way off doing so yet

Comfort wrote:Sexton in control, but Farrell second choice, clearly, for me.

Farrells doing everythings everyones asking of him thus far? Started solidly, and hes been building his game around that solid start ever since, he's only going to improve.

agreed. He could even play himself into first place but we need to see a lot more from him than a solid controlling game behind a dominating pack

TJ wrote:

Comfort wrote:Sexton in control, but Farrell second choice, clearly, for me.

Farrells doing everythings everyones asking of him thus far? Started solidly, and hes been building his game around that solid start ever since, he's only going to improve.

agreed. He could even play himself into first place but we need to see a lot more from him than a solid controlling game behind a dominating pack

Given current progress its going to be hard to find examples of him not operating behind a dominant pack.

Not being facetious he is a great tackler and has amazing temperament. Short term I think he will probably need some direction from the guys around him but you can rely on him not to panic. Long term he should just get better.

Sexton is a better attacking runner, has a pass with real zip and accuracy, stronger defender and his goal kicking is immaculate right now (100% against Wales)

Still in the driving seat, Farrell needs more than a good game against a very limited Scotland to have taken the 10 shirt I'm afraid.

TJ wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

beshocked wrote:Pretty obvious that Sexton is the favourite and deservedly so.

I just don't see it. Sexton is a better running outside half than Farrell, but in all other respects, Farrell is the better player.

Really? Sexton is more experienced, has won more, is as good with the boot, is a better runner and neither are magical passers. Farrell has a great temperament but is inexperienced and unproven as yet.

Farrell may overtake Sexton - but he is a long way off doing so yet

He is a better tackler than Farrell too. Not much better but it is a real strength of Sextons.

My thought exactly when I read Luckless's post Guns - Sexton's defense is incredibly strong.

"Farrell is the better player".

Hmmmm

Have you got any stats to back up your statement about Sexton being a better tackler? I would say they are both very good. Hard to compare.

Artful Dodger has anyone said Farrell is ahead of Sexton?

There's the game vs NZ under his belt too but of course Sexton and Ireland have beaten NZ numerous amounts of times..

Brendan's the one saying he wants Flood as no 1 Lion's fly half.

They are just as good as each other, but I think if all other things are equal you'd go with *spit* the Englishman *spit* as they are the team in Grand Slam form.

beshocked wrote:Have you got any stats to back up your statement about Sexton being a better tackler? I would say they are both very good. Hard to compare.

Artful Dodger has anyone said Farrell is ahead of Sexton?

Yes and quite a few who haven't said it clearly think it having voted for Farrell to be Lions 10 - though as the poll shows these people are clearly in the minority.

Artful dodger you can vote for more than one.

I voted for Farrell and Sexton because I think both will be on the plane.

Currently Sexton is no 1 choice. Farrell is a contender though and if he keeps up his form will push Sexton all the way.

Sexton is a very good and very experienced player. Farrell is the new kid on the block who has a couple of characteristics which are priceless (temperament and kicking), and some other skills, such as tackling, which are very high.

As things stand right now you have to go with Sexton. But that can change

beshocked wrote:Have you got any stats to back up your statement about Sexton being a better tackler? I would say they are both very good. Hard to compare.

Artful Dodger has anyone said Farrell is ahead of Sexton?

There's the game vs NZ under his belt too but of course Sexton and Ireland have beaten NZ numerous amounts of times..

Brendan's the one saying he wants Flood as no 1 Lion's fly half.

I don't think you need stats,Sexton is incredibly strong he regularly holds up props and backrows in a choke tackle to win a turnover.

It's not an insult to Farrell who is a very strong defender also it's just that this an area where imo Sexton is the best in the world.It's a bit like saying Kearney is better under the high ball than Goode (no idea what Goode is like,it's just an example) it doesn't mean Goode isn't also very strong under the high ball.

The thing about Sexton's tackling is that it is very mart and plays well into the Leinster/Ireland ideas. He goes quite high and just looks to hold on and clamp around the ball. He isn't bothered if he goes back yards because the Irish back-row then come in and hold the player up and get the turnover.
If you want to attack down Sexton's channel then you need to hit in take a few yards as you go forward but make sure you get the ball to deck before the Irish pack arrive so that you can ruck over fast.
Farrell much more looks to hit his guy back and down.
They are both effective tacklers though.

For my tuppence i'd say Sexton is fair way ahead of Farrell at the moment. Let Farrell have this 6 nations as England's 1st choice 10 and then we can see where he is at the end of it.