v2 G.O.A.T Round 2 Match 13

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Please vote for the participant you believe has achieved the most in sport

Below are the previous round 1 articles written by forum members

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Pele- Football- Champion by paperbag_puncher

Only when I sat down to write this article did the sheer scale of what I was attempting to do hit me. This article should really write itself, yet there are no words that can accurately describe the greatness of 'The King of Football' There are few human beings throughout history in any walk of life who have reached the iconic status of Pele.
“My name is Ronald Reagan, I’m the President of the United States of America. But you don’t need to introduce yourself, because everyone knows who Pele is.”
Ronald Reagan

Like most young boys I grew up hearing stories of this mythical man from Brazil who could create magic with his feet. I’d always been told of his greatness and happily accepted it but I was doing the man a great disservice by simply accepting it. Only as I got older and researched further did I realise how great he actually was. I am genuinely grateful that I have agreed to write this piece as it has given me the opportunity to revisit and explore the career of arguably the greatest sports person to have graced this earth.

There is no doubt in my mind that Pele was the most complete player of those who are generally mentioned in the greatest ever debates. Blessed with an unbelievable combination of pace, power, balance and close control he beat defenders at will making everything look effortless. Capable of the unpredictable and the sublime he was very much ahead of his time. Two footed and lethal in the air he was the ultimate goal scorer. The famous stat of 1281 goals in 1363 games is testament to this.

Pele said in 2006: "For 20 years they have asked me the same question, who is the greatest? Pele or Maradona? I reply that all you have to do is look at the facts - how many goals did he score with his right foot or with his head?"

Pele made his debut for Santos at the tender age of 15 scoring on his debut in 1956. By the time the 1957 season came around he was a first team regular and finished as the league’s top scorer. Just 10 months later he was called up to the Brazilian national team scoring in a 2-1 defeat to Argentina making him the youngest ever international scorer at 16 years and 9 months. He would go on to become and still is Brazil’s top goal scorer with a remarkable 77 goals in 92 games.

1958 was Pele’s breakout year and he announced himself to the world in style. He won his first major title the Campeonato Paulista with Santos scoring a record 58 goals along the way (a record that still stands) He was selected for the 1958 World Cup at the insistence of of his team mates despite being injured, which shows the regard the 17 year old was already held in. He played a pivotal role scoring the winner against Wales in the quarters, a hat-trick against France and another brace Vs Sweden in the final on his way to becoming the youngest ever World Cup Winner.

Brazil repeated the trick in 1962 but did it without Pele who injured himself in the second game having looked ominously bright in the opening game. The 1966 was even worse for him. Pele was ruthlessly and cynically targeted by opposing defences meaning he missed the loss to Hungary and was never at his best for the two games he did play. Without their talisman the defending champions were eliminated in the first round.
He got his redemption in 1970 inspiring perhaps the greatest team of all time to a third world cup success. Pele at the peak of his powers won the player of the tournament and provided us with two of his most iconic moments. Had his lob from the half way line against the Czechs or his audacious dummy to round the Uruguayan goalie resulted in goals they surely would have been 2 of the greatest in World Cup history.

At one stage it was universally accepted that Pele was the greatest footballer of all time. In recent years it has almost become fashionable to dismiss his claim and achievements in favour of two little Argies. There are two sticks that are usually used to beat him which are contradictory for me. True he never tested himself in Europe. Having been named a ‘national treasure’ by the Brazilian Government and not being allowed to be ‘exported’ he spent his best years in his native land. However, we do have some clues as to how he would have fared had he moved to a big European club. His goals record and performances at international level leave me unequivocally convinced that he would have burned it up in any league. Also Santos (mainly to be able to afford his wages) regularly toured and faced the biggest clubs in Europe where Pele showed he was still on another level. The other criticism is that he was part of the greatest international team ever and had world class team mates around him which somehow should dilute his success. Many of these same team mates also predominantly played in Brazil yet this isn’t held against the likes of Garrincha, Rivelino, Tostao or Jairzinho who regularly had to play second fiddle to Pele and his Santos team. Nor is it held against one Lionel Messi who is a part of the greatest team I have ever seen. Like Messi now, Pele was the undoubted jewel in a beautiful crown.

For me, to be worthy of being called the greatest sports person of all time you need to tick several boxes. You must be supremely talented and have a strong argument to be the GOAT in your own sport. In my opinion you also have to have transcended your own sport and have made a widespread universal and lasting impact. With all due respect to the big hitters who have been voted through so far, most people have no idea who Bradman, Merckx etc are. While this may not be a popularity contest Pele’s notoriety and worldwide acclaim stemmed solely from his prodigious talent and countless achievements. He wasn’t a character, he wasn’t a loveable rogue. He did all his talking with his feet and his reputation is a product of his talent alone.

I have used a lot of words despite originally stating words could not do the great man justice. Still for me Pele is a treat best enjoyed visually. Watching him nutmeg two defenders and rounding the keeper or seeing him effortlessly flicking the ball over a defender’s head and volleying home is still jaw dropping even today. I will leave you with some quotes from his peers and contemporaries who say it a lot better than I ever could.

"I told myself before the game, 'he's made of skin and bones just like everyone else'. But I was wrong.”
Tarcisio Burgnich, the Italy defender who marked Pele in the Mexico 1970 Final

“The difficulty, the extraordinary, is not to score 1,000 goals like Pele – it’s to score one goal like Pele.”
Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Brazilian poet

“The greatest player in history was Di Stefano. I refuse to classify Pele as a player. He was above that.”
Ferenc Puskas

“After the fifth goal, even I wanted to cheer for him.”
Sigge Parling of Sweden on a 5-2 defeat by Brazil in the 1958 FIFA World Cup Final

“I arrived hoping to stop a great man, but I went away convinced I had been undone by someone who was not born on the same planet as the rest of us.”
Costa Pereira on Benfica’s 5-2 loss to Santos in the 1962 Intercontinental Cup in Lisbon

"Pele was the greatest – he was simply flawless. And off the pitch he is always smiling and upbeat. You never see him bad-tempered. He loves being Pele.”
Tostao
“When I saw Pele play, it made me feel I should hang up my boots.”
Just Fontaine

“Pele was one of the few who contradicted my theory: instead of 15 minutes of fame, he will have 15 centuries.”
Andy Warhol

“Pele was the only footballer who surpassed the boundaries of logic.”
Johan Cruyff

“His great secret was improvisation. Those things he did were in one moment. He had an extraordinary perception of the game.”
Carlos Alberto Torres

“I sometimes feel as though football was invented for this magical player.”
Sir Bobby Charlton

"Pele played football for 22 years, and in that time he did more to promote world friendship and fraternity than any other ambassador anywhere.”
J.B. Pinheiro, the Brazilian ambassador to the United Nations

Malcolm Allison: “How do you spell Pele?”
Pat Crerand: “Easy: G-O-D.”
British television commentators during Mexico 1970

Pelé is the greatest player of all time. He reigned supreme for 20 years. All the others – Diego Maradona, Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini – rank beneath him. There's no one to compare with Pelé.
—West Germany's 1974 FIFA World Cup-winning captain Franz Beckenbauer

The best player ever? Pelé. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pelé was better.
—Real Madrid legend Alfredo Di Stéfano

Garfield Sobers- Cricket-

"Before anyone exclaims ''Not another cricketer!'', let me begin with a few words from Harold Pinter, Nobel Prize winning playwright, dramatist and actor. Pinter said, ''I tend to think that cricket is the greatest thing that God ever created on earth - certainly greater than sex, although sex isn'too bad either.''

Now I don't set myself the near impossible task of convincing you of that but I do hope to show you that Garry Sobers was a great cricketing all rounder and sportsman who deserves your vote today. The cricket writer Lawrence Booth described him as ''a master of all trades and jack of none''. In my view, Sobers certainly merits at the least a place at the business end of this contest. Assuming he gets that far, one of his rivals will undoubtedly be Sir Donad Bradman. I make no claim either way today as to whom was the greatest cricketer - that hopefully will be a challenge to come that both will relish. Bradman himself referred to Sobers as ''the five in one cricketer''.

The Don's description referred to Sobers' prowess in batting, fielding and bowling in three distinct styles. This was further explained by the much respected writer, commentator and former Australian captain Richie Benaud: ''Sobers was a brilliant batsman, splendid fielder, particularly close to the wicket, and a bowler of extraordinary skill, whether bowling with the new ball, providing left-arm spin or over-the-wrist spin.'' Benaud added that Sobers was the greatest all-round cricketer the world has seen.''

Garry Sobers was born in Barbados in July 1936. There was perhaps a hint then that there was to be something unusual about him; at birth he had an extra finger on each hand, subsequently removed in early childhood. When Sobers was only five, his father died at sea in WWII when his ship was torpedoed by a U-boat. Despite this tragedy and little money, Sobers generally enjoyed his formative years and excelled in ball sports - football, basketball and especially cricket. At the age of just sixteen he was selected to play for Barbados against the touring India team as a spin bowler and took seven match wickets.

Just one year later Sobers made his Test debut at seventeen. It was the beginning of a Test career that was to last twenty years and bring him 8,032 runs, 235 wickets and 109 catches from 93 matches. With so much Test cricket played today, those stats do not reflect how far ahead of his peers Sobers was. To some extent, I will try and show that. However, it needs to be noted that personal averages were never of concern to Sobers. In the words of the late Tony Greig, ''In my experience, every single thing he did, he did in the interests of the game .... he never thought about averages in any aspect of his game.''

I do not have the time and you do not have the patience for me to list all Sobers' cricketing accomplishments, so just a few to give a flavour of his all round abilities:

* In 1958, he not only scored his maiden Test century against Pakistan in Kingston but went on to amass an undefeated 365 in an innings that lasted over ten hours. It broke the world record Test score of 364 set by England's Len Hutton in 1938. At 21 years and 216 days, he is the youngest player to break the individual scoring record in Tests and remains the youngest triple-centurion. When Sobers' highest individual Test score was finally broken thirty-six years later by Brian Lara, Sobers was at the ground in Antingua to witnesss it and was one of the first to congratulate him.

* Sobers scored another twenty-five centuries in his Test career. Three of these came in the Test series in England in 1966 where he enjoyed spectacular success and was dubbed ''King Cricket''. As the late Christopher Martin Jenkins confirmed, ''he dominated the '66 series''. In the five Tests Sobers scored 722 runs at an average in excess of 103. For me, his greatest batting display that summer was an uncharacteristic innings at Manchester where he reined in his natural attacking instincts to rescue his side from a perilous situation. It has been said on this thread that a true GOAT for all his artistry needs at times to ''guts it out''; this was when Sobers did just that. In their second innings, the West Indies were in desperate trouble at 95-5, leading by just 9 runs. With Sobers at the crease was his young and nervous cousin David Holford in only his second Test. After Holford had played and missed at his first two balls, Sobers went down the pitch and said words to him along the lines of, ''Relax, it's just a game. Now think of how we used to play back home ...''. From there, the tide started to turn. The partnership between Sobers and Holford remained unbroken with the West Indies being able to eventually declare and snatch a draw from the proverbial jaws of defeat. Sobers scored an undefeated 163. Whilst he clearly deserves credit for that, he deserves even greater praise for having coaxed and encouraged his partner to an undefeated maiden Test century of 105 not out. It was the only Test century of Holford's career and would not have possible without Sobers' calming presence.

* Due to the apartheid regime, South Africa were banned from Test cricket at the start of the 1970s. In place of the proposed tour to their country of South Africa in '71/'72, Australia played a Rest of the World side captained by Sobers. In the Third (unofficial) Test at Melbourne, Sobers played an innings of 254 which was described by Bradman as ''probably the greatest exhibition of batting ever seen in Australia''.

* Sobers will probably be best remembered for being the first batsman to hit six sixes in a over in first class cricket. This was achieved in August 1968 when he was captaining Nottinghamshire against Glamorgan in Swansea. The unfortunate bowler was Malcolm Nash. Typically of Sobers when interviewed by cricket writer Grahame Lloyd about the day, he did not criticise Nash's bowling nor talk of his own exploits but spoke of what was really important to him - the game: ''Malcolm tried to do the right thing - he was trying to get me out.'' This tally of 36 runs in an over broke a record of 34 runs that had stood for fifty-seven years and its impact at the time cannot be overestimated. I was on holiday then in the Scilly Isles. In this pre internet age, we had to rely far more on newpaper reports and I still recall one cricket fixated holidaymaker at our guest house going early to the quay to wait for the boat that brought the papers. Ok, the guy was probably a bit of a nutter but it was nonetheless definitely a national talking point. This world record was equalled in 1985 by Ravi Shastri playing for Bombay. However, in the words of Grahame Lloyd, ''It would be 17 years before another batsman would be similarly blessed by the cricketing gods but no subsequent hitting of six sixes in an over would ever be able to match the first one.''

* Sobers' Test average was a mighty impressive 57.78. As a bowler, his stats are not so stunning although in the words of Cricinfo ''he was more than handy with his ability to bowl various styles''. Whilst never taking 10 wickets in a Test match, he took 5 wickets in an innings on six occasions. Particular bowling highlights were at Headingley in 1966 when he returned figures of 5-41 and 3-39 to take West Indies to victory over England by an innings and at the Gabba two years later where his orthodox left-arm spin gave him a second innings haul of 6-73 and the West Indies victory over Australia by 125 runs.

* During his peak as a Test match bowler between January 1961 and December 1968, Sobers took 125 wickets in 33 Tests at an average just under 28. His overall Test bowling average was a shade above 34, still almost 24 less than his batting average. That is bordering statistical freakery. The only past or present player I'm aware of who is on a par is Jacques Kallis of South Africa. For all his strengths of dependability and determination, I don't place Kallis on such a high pedestal as Sobers. For me, Kallis has less of the natural match winning talent and entertaining flair that characterised so much of Sobers' game.

* Far more than Kallis and any other cricketers, Sobers was able to deliver his excellence with bat and ball in the same series. Scoring 300 runs and taking 20 wickets in a Test series is a very considerable achievement. It has only been achieved fifteen times in the entire history of Test cricket. Sobers managed it on three of those occasions, twice against England and once against India. The Australian all rounder Keith Miller did it twice but no one else has achieved it more than once. Ian Botham, Kapil Dev, Richard Hadlee and Shaun Pollock were among those who did it once each. The mighty Imran Khan never managed it and the same still applies to Jacques Kallis.

* As a close to the wicket fielder, Sobers made fielding an artform. For several years, Lance Gibbs was the world's leading Test match wicket taker. A fair number of those wickets were attributable to catches by Sobers. Gibbs readily acknowledged the part played by Sobers, ''His anticipation was incredible.'' In the words, somewhat over ridden with awe, of former West Indies Test batsman Charlie Davis, ''Garry could catch a blur you know. He used to be close at leg slip, at the back pocket of the batsmen, and catch blurs. Once a batsman flicked hard off Lance and Sobers just plucks his hand out and takes it so easily. The batsman couldn't believe it ... He could catch a bur. He is not normal. He is definitely not normal.''

* ''As a captain, Sobers was a mixed bag'' - Cricinfo. I think that is definitely true although I wouldn't condem him too heavily for this. Following initial captaincy success, he was roundly criticised for a declaration against England at Port-of-Spain which resulted in defeat for the West Indies. Whilst Sobers' declaration was overly generous to the away team, he was keen to keep the match alive and believed that gave his own side the best chance of victory. The former West Indies paceman Michael Holding has suggested that Sobers was too respectful towards the abilities of others in his team, ''Perhaps Sir Garfield Sobers thought others within the team had the ability of Sir Garfield Sobers.'' This is rather echoed by Charlie Davis, ''Garry was too modest. He didn't know how special he was. He expected us to bat like him. And catch like him. He thought all of us were like him you know.''

Anyway, that's more than enough from me. Just to finish off with a few comments from others who know much more.

''His stroke range was phenomenal. He had an array of shots and incredible energy. '' - Alan Davidson, Australia Test seam bowler.

''The best ever. You were in awe of him.'' - Cive Lloyd, West Indies batsman and captain.

''The complete all rounder''- Ian Botham, England all rounder and captain.

''The greatest born cricketer probably of them all.'' - Christopher Marin Jenkins, cricket writer.

''Whatever the level, he played it as it was just a game. He was relaxed in everything he did, whatever the situation.'' - Tony Cozier, West Indian cricket broadcaster and writer.

''Forget about all the other things, a great batsman and a great human being.'' - Ian Chappell, Australia batsman and captain.

''A genius. He could do everything. The complete cricketer.'' - Sunil Gavaskar, India captain and opening batsman.

A final comment from Tony Cozier which I consider particularly apt as we seek the ultimate GOAT: ''I have a firm belief that people are put here to do certain things. Like Pele to play football and Ali to box, Sobers was put here to play cricket and he played it magnificently.''

In his autobiography, Michael Atherton once commented on how it seems that even though track & field, as well as swim times get lowered and distances increased, power lifting records get smashed. But for some or other reason, every sport which cant be measured with a tape, scale or stopwatch actually goes backward in the eyes of fans. Just found it ineresting to note with this particular contest.

Initially I was going to vote for Pele, but a combination of the fact that his final goal tally is actually disputed and also the fact that if Sobers was a footballer he would have Cristiano Ronaldo's goalscoring (batting), but also a capable left, right, and centre back (bowling), and a class goalie (fielding), combined with Guardiola's tactical skills (captaincy).

Pele was a great footballer, maybe the greatest of all time, and strictly speaking a better athlete than Sobers, but cricket ask much more of its contestants than football. Razor-sharp reflexes. Tactics (Pele never HAD to decide to go 3-6-1 or swap the two fullbacks if it wasnt working.). Longevity (Five days is Long time on the field.).

Lastly, yesterdays results put a legitimate question mark on previous results. How many other match-offs have been compromised by people with multiple accounts? Tiger Woods also rawed back from the dead against Usain Bolt...
I would hope it was just the American section of 606 voting, but amyone who has to fraudulently manipulate the results of an online competion which has no Grand Prize, or any "Real world" weight behind it is a sad, sad human being.

McLaren wrote:Yes Jas, I am making the outlandish claim that modern day La Liga is of a better standard than the regional sao paulo league in which Pele played.

No you're not, you're making a complete and utter fool of yourself beyond the confines of the golf board. It is rather amusing to watch the cretinous depths you can reach when you try.

Here was me thinking you were a traditionalist, I can just imagine how apoplectic and aereated you'd get if somebody championed a modern day classic course (eg Trumpton) above your beloved Old Course.

Two GOATs that I saw Live!

Mac,
Pele burnished every possible credential in the toughest league of all, twelve years apart.
Very tough on Sir Garfield but Pele should probably win this GOAT.

jas

So what evidence do we have that pele was performing to the highest level in between world cups? We don't, all we have is myth based performances 12 years apart.

I have no doubt he was a very good player but if we are to elevate him to a higher status then we need evidence and not myth to base this on.

Mac,
Hardly Pele's fault if he was kicked out of two WC's. No TV for the Chile shambles, but in England in 1966 the attacks on him were brutal - given his successes in 1970 you can hardly hold 1966 against him.
That's like saying Bill Laimbeer should be GOAT because of all the times he nobbled Jordan.

Kwini


All i am saying is there is a lack of evidence in his favor. Because messi shows a greatness in a top league every week we can know for sure of his ability over the long term.

You must surely accept that great play in major international tournaments does not equate to greatness, there has to be more to it than that or Milan Baros would be an all time great.

So how do we begin to class how great a player was? We look at how they play for a top club in a top league.

So what hypothesis can we put forward about his club career.

He scored many goals in a league that was not of the standard of modern la liga. This can be confirmed by his goal record in the sao paulo local league.


If I propose this; Pele was unable to perform weekly in a top class league. This cannot be disproved. And there is certainly no evidence to support this case.


The only way you can argue against the last point is to invoke belief that he could have done. But who cares about beliefs when it comes to assessing evidence?

McLaren wrote:.

So how do we begin to class how great a player was? We look at how they play for a top club in a top league.

Or we can use the evidence of our own eyes and the opinions of qualified and respected judges.

hoggy


Thats the sort of codswallop that will have you down on your knees five times a day or believing that a man came back from the dead.

McLaren
Not really, as I've never seen a God, and I don't know anything about the qualifications of those who say they have.
I have, however, seen Pele, and I know that most people who played football to a high level (ie those qualified to judge) who also saw him rank him as one of the greats, if not the greatest.
There are so many variables involved that to narrow down your judgement to just one set of evidence, while dismissing all others, undermines your argument IMHO.

Mac,
The World Cup was the Holy Grail back in yesteryear, even if some observers feel it's been overtaken.
Hopefully people won't put Bobby Moore down because he played for the Iron and didn't compete for the Championship - he was brill for England and Pele was even Briller for Brazil. Especially compared with anyone else around.

And I'm as big a fan as you can find of Sir Garfield (except guildford and the Corporal of course).

McLaren wrote:jas

So what evidence do we have that pele was performing to the highest level in between world cups? We don't, all we have is myth based performances 12 years apart.

I have no doubt he was a very good player but if we are to elevate him to a higher status then we need evidence and not myth to base this on.

Ok I'll humour you for a bit

1 Look at his goals scored per games played ration both at club and international level. It really really wouldn't have mattered what league he played in he'd have performed.

2. Goals scored in South Americas equivalent of the European Cup (I.e. beyond the confines of what you assume in your ignorance wasn't a top domestic league)

3. Top scorer in the intercontinental Cup (when the Eutopean Cup Champions play the South American Champions (interesting point here is that the Brazilian teams went through a period of boycotting the South American tournament due to the complete lack of protection from referees from Argentinian/Uruguayan brutality). Players like Pele therefore were putting their careers on the line every time they played in those games.

4. There's a long list of other World class players who played against him rather than sat sat at a keyboard 40-50 years later who say he WAS the best (Beckenbauer, Moore, Charlton Etc).

So do yourself a favour, go look at some footage of him on YouTube and stop being a complete plank, you really can't justify your position you silly silly boy.

See this is one of the reasons I haven't been active on this thread...apart from the absurdity of comparing apples with pomegranates ...( should we try to decide who is greater : Einstein , Shakespeare or Bach ? )

...but I just don't like this aggro that seems to be creeping in here between supporters of different sports....who needs it ? Sobers was a true Great , so was Pele ...I was lucky enough to see both and have no doubts. Pick one or the other , but spare us the silly put downs please.

Alfie they are not supporters of diferent sports.. Both mainly golf , just having a pop.. Mac deserves it most of the time(cough cough). But i actually agree with alot he says this time..

TBH these threads have not been aggro at all. Its being pretty decent discussion from most.. So I think your being abit unfair!

Well the whole process has now been tarnished thanks to Hans and his obsessions.

Alfie - Apart from the odd 'care in the community' type poster who has found his way onto this thread, there's been little criticism of either of these nominees with the general tone being that Pele was brilliant whilst Sobers was near brilliant and has been dreadfully unlucky as to whom he has come up against.

guildfordbat wrote:An extremely difficult draw for Sir Garfield St Aubrun Sobers but I hope the write up above (which you would be forgiven for missing as there is no separation from Pele's and heading in bold! ) shows he was always up for a hard game and has a case worth making.

A very respectable showing for Sobers considering the opposition. No doubt Pele's case boosted by a few votes from those who thought he was an all round cricketer in his spare time...

alfie,
Think you'd enjoy the Golf Board; we need someone to defend the Aussie golfers in light of their disappointments over the past few years and educate us as to where the next bright young thing might come from. Because it's been a while - Jason Day is so yesterday . . . .

Corporal,
Saw Sobers' locker in the old Sandy Lane clubhouse, very low key as you might expect.

mystiroakey wrote:Alfie they are not supporters of diferent sports.. Both mainly golf , just having a pop.. Mac deserves it most of the time(cough cough). But i actually agree with alot he says this time..

TBH these threads have not been aggro at all. Its being pretty decent discussion from most.. So I think your being abit unfair!

Fair enough roakey ... It seems I have misinterpreted a bit of banter between golfing friends

I'm which case I do apologise for over reacting ... Just that when I come on to these threads I seem to run into a lot of name calling ( look at the other current one !) ... But I accept it is just friends stirring each other.. Guess I am spoiled by the very gentlemanly Cricket Board

Still can't come to terms with this cross-sports comparison stuff though , but those who do , enjoy ...

kwinigolfer wrote:alfie,
Think you'd enjoy the Golf Board; we need someone to defend the Aussie golfers in light of their disappointments over the past few years and educate us as to where the next bright young thing might come from. Because it's been a while - Jason Day is so yesterday . . . .

Corporal,
Saw Sobers' locker in the old Sandy Lane clubhouse, very low key as you might expect.

Haha ... Played a round of golf many years ago at the urging of a work colleague... My almost total inability to evenhit the wretched stationary ball let alone direct it where I wanted was the source of much mirth ... And a lifetime resolve to stay well clear of the confounded Scottish Invention...

Seriously love watching things like Ryder Cup but know SFA in detail about the sport so won't be offering any insights

Might look in to see what you lot are up to though...

Aye alfie- The cricket board is a bit quiet and nice at the moment!!

Wheres KPFAN?

Great T20 match earlier though!!

Alfie
Some very informed contributors over there.
When it was BBC 606 we had Messrs Westwood and McIlroy posting; don't think anyone of that illustrious calibre is there these days, but some good stuff nevertheless.
And then there's mysti!

Dont forget the legendary SR..

where has he gone?..(actually wasnt he talking about austria for some snowboarding!!- lky bugger)

alfie wrote:See this is one of the reasons I haven't been active on this thread...apart from the absurdity of comparing apples with pomegranates ...( should we try to decide who is greater : Einstein , Shakespeare or Bach ? )

...but I just don't like this aggro that seems to be creeping in here between supporters of different sports....who needs it ? Sobers was a true Great , so was Pele ...I was lucky enough to see both and have no doubts. Pick one or the other , but spare us the silly put downs please.

Hi Alfie, apologies if the above was a bit OTT on a neutral board. I'm sure Mac takes my posts about as seriously as I take his. As others have eluded to there's a fair bit if banter and familiarity on the golf boards. Mac in particular likes to lurch between being faux fended at the most trivial of things to then posting provocative nonsense just to get attention the next.

Whilst I championed Pele on this thread as he was a childhood hero I also recognise Sir Garfield's greatness too although i never followed cricket as a kid and yes it was a shame they were drawn together at this early stage.

I remember on Fantasy Football (UK TV) many years ago tey looked into Pele's 1000 goals and found tat many of tem were not really in proper standard mates and it ad all been a bit exaggerated.

PS Must apologise tat te letter H and C and V are not working unless I put in as a apital. Go figure. And I getting tired of opying and pasting tem, it takes foreer.

Basially greater tan 1000 inludes friendlies, testimonials, exibiitions et. Not just main ommpetitie mates.