India v Australia, Third Test, Chandigarh

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1st Test
Fri Feb 22 - Tue Feb 26
04:00 GMT | 09:30 local
12:00 WST | 14:30 CST | 15:00 EST
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chepauk, Chennai

2nd Test
Sat Mar 2 - Wed Mar 6
04:00 GMT | 09:30 local
12:00 WST | 14:30 CST | 15:00 EST
Rajiv Gandhi International Stadium, Uppal, Hyderabad

3rd Test
Thu Mar 14 - Mon Mar 18
04:00 GMT | 09:30 local
12:00 WST | 14:30 CST | 15:00 EST
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali, Chandigarh

4th Test
Fri Mar 22 - Tue Mar 26
04:00 GMT | 09:30 local
12:00 WST | 14:30 CST | 15:00 EST
Feroz Shah Kotla, Delhi


India:
Shikhar Dhawan, Murli Vijay, Virender Sehwag, Cheteshwar Pujara, Sachin Tendulkar, Virat Kohli, Ajinkya Rahane, M S Dhoni (c),
Rabindra Jadeja, Bhubhneshwar Kumar, Ravi Ashwin, Pragyan Ojha, Harbhajan Singh, Ishant Sharma, Ashoke Dinda

Australia:
Michael Clarke (c), Ed Cowan, David Warner, Phillip Hughes, Shane Watson, Usman Khawaja, Steve Smith, Matthew Wade, Glenn Maxwell,
Moises Henriques, Nathan Lyon, Xavier Doherty, Mitchell Johnson, Peter Siddle, James Pattinson, Mitchell Starc, Jackson Bird

Khawaja was in with a big chance to come in for Hughes wasn't he?
So what would hav been Hughes' response to the 3 pointer? Particularly on the technical side on playing spin?
Very interested to see Warney's response to all this.

Haha ...no lb , I meant Khawaja...in fact I was going to add Watson would not be missed in his present state of mind.

Look it probably won't make too much difference - I doubt Australia can win here at present anyway , and as you say it does make it clear what is expected of the players. May even lead to a bit of a better performance from some of the others.

But does it not seem extraordinary that communication between team and coach can be so scrambled , when they are all living and working together 24/7 ? It just seems to me a problem has been created out of nothing. Ah well I wasn't there so probably shouldn't be commenting , but reckon the Indians will be having a bit of a chuckle.

And some English newspapers

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/624537.html
Haven't heard from Warney as yet, but very sensible people like Allan Border and Michael Vaughan think this is a joke.

good question, msp. Maybe he left a blank space with a squiggly looking sort of thing...

Who knows what exactly goes on, alfie. Maybe they ducked out for a nice curry at a local restaurant and then later went to the modern art gallery night exhibition... and completely forgot about their assignments!

Funnily enough - I'm almost at the giggle stage too. Who could have written this script? Let's just hope that nobody else gets injured playing ball tomorrow

When I read the cricinfo heading of the news of their axing, I thought they would have gone on a drinking spree and missed practice, or picked up a fight with someone or something of that kind. But when I read they are being axed for not turning in an assignment on time, I was flabbergasted!. There is a limit to these managerial nonsense!.

Anyway , still have put out an XI :

Cowan
Warner.
Clarke.
Smith.
Wade/Haddin
Henriques.
Maxwell.
Starc.
Siddle.
Lyon.
Doherty. ....? No , don't think so ...so Hughes has to play

Put him in at three and leave out Maxwell then ...

Just as well they sent a squad of 17 I guess. Wonder what would have happened if a couple more had missed their homework deadline

I just hope the Indians won't pay too much attention to the ongoing saga in the other camp, and would stay focused on their game instead.

Alfie, think the first side you put up might do just a little bit more than the amended one with Hughes in it. Hughes is a walking wicket against spin, and he's not good against the moving ball either. Maxwell can offer something on the field. and his batting is in with as much chance to come off as that of Hughes. Besides, he can bowl, and can turn the cricket ball a bit.

msp83 wrote:When I read the cricinfo heading of the news of their axing, I thought they would have gone on a drinking spree and missed practice, or picked up a fight with someone or something of that kind. But when I read they are being axed for not turning in an assignment on time, I was flabbergasted!. There is a limit to these managerial nonsense!.

So did I... I was surprised to see the reason. The cats are out of the bag now so we'll just have to live with it. I wonder whether they'll have to write a 3000 word analysis of "how spin got me undone... and what am I gonna do about it" That would be a near impossible task...

Watsons walked out. End of the road for Arthur this I suspect

You might be right , msp...as you say Hughes is no more likely to get runs than the team physio , and Maxwell can indeed field.

Just the sight of the wicket keeper at five followed by a string of bowlers-who-can-bat-a bit gives me nightmares...though I suppose they couldn't do any worse than the last match.

Aussies imploding before our very eyes! Love it!!

Seriously though, why do they have to write an essay type thing? They aren't journalists, or English students, they are professional cricketers. Get your arse out on the cricket field and work in the nets on what you need to improve, you don't need to bloody document it

GSC wrote:Watsons walked out. End of the road for Arthur this I suspect

Where did you read this? Source?

Linebreaker wrote:good question, msp. Maybe he left a blank space with a squiggly looking sort of thing...

Who knows what exactly goes on, alfie. Maybe they ducked out for a nice curry at a local restaurant and then later went to the modern art gallery night exhibition... and completely forgot about their assignments!

Funnily enough - I'm almost at the giggle stage too. Who could have written this script? Let's just hope that nobody else gets injured playing ball tomorrow

I think it was more innocent than that, they went to work at the local soup kitchen and lost track of time, being so emotionally loaded after such a worthwhile cause.

Linebreaker wrote:

GSC wrote:Watsons walked out. End of the road for Arthur this I suspect

Where did you read this? Source?

A few saying it on twitter. Don't blame him really.

Watson's gone home!

So you heard about them not paying their food bills too?

Serves them right.

"Next? No, not you son.... end of the queue for you mate!"

I'd be keen to get Mike's view on this one: what does he think about a) the assignment itself? b) players apparently so committed to their country they can't even be bothered to set aside 15-20 minutes time to think about what's going so horribly wrong? and of course c) whether the punishment metted out isn't a little OTT.

I know that sides Mike coaches have gone through bad patches, so interested to know how he deals with them. I think the idea about this was all about getting players accepting responsibility and trying to work out how to improve their (sub-standard) performances. I actually think the whole "getting each player to do this individually" idea isn't a bad one, as it can't be easy for a player to stand up in a room and say "I'm in real trouble here, I have no idea how to score off Ashwin" (I remember Trescothick I think doing a similar thing about McGrath before the 05 Ashes series, mentioned in Vaughan's autobiography). The whole assignment aspect is to get them thinking about their game.

Secondly, I do find it disappointing that players don't feel committed enough to their country to do the assignment. Whichever way you look at it, it's not a good sign. I do think there's been a worrying trend recently of player commitment problems (Ross Taylor for NZ, players prefering the riches of the IPL, etc.). I'm not sure why this is though.

I suspect part of the problem for Australia in this was Khawaja (this is my entirely personal opinion, reading between the lines). I reckon Aus don't really like his attitude, maybe he doesn't work hard enough? too nonchalant? I don't know, but there seems to be a bit of a problem there (reminds me of Owais Shah with England). Maybe this was the straw which broke the camel's back with him and they feel he really needed a kick up the backside. It's certainly interesting that he's been singled out for the heaviest criticism by Arthur in his comments. The trouble is if you decide this warants Khawaja not being considered for selection then you have to apply the same measure to the other three.

In the long term, if it does have the desired effect on Khawaja then maybe this will actually help. Watson wasn't scoring any runs anyway, though Pattinson is a big loss. Still, it's all a bit of a shambles and doesn't reflect particularly well on Australian cricket...

Olly wrote:Aussies imploding before our very eyes! Love it!!

Seriously though, why do they have to write an essay type thing? They aren't journalists, or English students, they are professional cricketers. Get your arse out on the cricket field and work in the nets on what you need to improve, you don't need to bloody document it

actually you're wrong: the first step to improvement would be recognising what's wrong and working out how to solve the problems. Going out into the nets and hitting a few balls won't help, you need to first know what to work on. That's what this assignment was about. Of course it could have been done in an informal chat with the coach or whatever, but let's not make this out as being asked to write an essay about world hunger...

Am hearing Watson is off home for the birth of his first child...timing a bit awkward , or convenient perhaps...

But perhaps we need to wait and hear more about this development before rushing to judgement.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Aussies imploding before our very eyes! Love it!!

Seriously though, why do they have to write an essay type thing? They aren't journalists, or English students, they are professional cricketers. Get your arse out on the cricket field and work in the nets on what you need to improve, you don't need to bloody document it

actually you're wrong: the first step to improvement would be recognising what's wrong and working out how to solve the problems. Going out into the nets and hitting a few balls won't help, you need to first know what to work on. That's what this assignment was about. Of course it could have been done in an informal chat with the coach or whatever, but let's not make this out as being asked to write an essay about world hunger...

Why do they need to write anything anyway? It isn't bloody school, they're grown men, they should just talk about it. Have it out in the dressing room

alfie..whats the reaction from Australians in Australia this morning?

also interesting to see that while msp has as usual blamed this all on the coaches Michael Clarke was also part of the decision to axe all four for the next Test. I suspect had Clarke felt strongly that they needed them they would have been made available (see Cook with KP).

Olly wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Aussies imploding before our very eyes! Love it!!

Seriously though, why do they have to write an essay type thing? They aren't journalists, or English students, they are professional cricketers. Get your arse out on the cricket field and work in the nets on what you need to improve, you don't need to bloody document it

actually you're wrong: the first step to improvement would be recognising what's wrong and working out how to solve the problems. Going out into the nets and hitting a few balls won't help, you need to first know what to work on. That's what this assignment was about. Of course it could have been done in an informal chat with the coach or whatever, but let's not make this out as being asked to write an essay about world hunger...

Why do they need to write anything anyway? It isn't bloody school, they're grown men, they should just talk about it. Have it out in the dressing room

See my previous point. I think standing up in the dressing room and aknowledging your struggles in front of the whole team and support staff is a lot harder than writing three quick points about how to improve. The fact it was text, written or e-mail suggests they didn't expect a long essay in perfect English, just three short simple ideas. Watson's could have been something like:
- need to turn the strike over more against the spinners and not get stuck so much without scoring: quick singles to mid-off mid-on/sweep shot?
- as a team we need to stop throwing our wickets away so much and accept that there may be long-ish periods where we won't score so much, more patience.
- more energy needed in the field
you see? not anything long or convoluted (I made that up completely BTW). I agree it could have been done on a one-to-one with the coach basis maybe, but suspect this was about getting the players to think about it rather than look to the coaches for a solution (again, just my opinion, and why I'd be keen to get Mike's view on the matter).

Personally if I was a coach I'd rather get one to one with a player, get to really know what's going on in the head of the player.

But I'm glad to see they have taken serious punishment on the players. Quite funny to watch as an Englishman!

CF wrote:alfie..whats the reaction from Australians in Australia this morning?

Well as it is currently after ten the only Australians I can interview at the moment are wife and child , neither of whom is particularly interested in cricket

The immediate reaction from past players (Border , Mark Waugh etc ) has been pretty critical of team management , but I guess we will have to wait until tomorrow morning for the great unwashed to unload on talkback radio...

I am betting there will be a few virtual turnips thrown in the general direction of Mickey Arthur , though the players will no doubt come in for their share too. Public generally won't be happy

CF wrote:alfie..whats the reaction from Australians in Australia this morning?

It's late evening here, CF. 10:30pm now
It wasn't top sports story at 7:30pm but I'm sure it will be pretty big in the morning.

I think the exercise was for each player to simply to jot down 3 'thoughts' and then have an informal discussion about the situation.
If the 4 players couldn't scribble something down quickly (in maybe 2 minutes?) and then when asked what they had to offer said something like: "I haven't had time... or haven't done it" (with a smug tone) then Mickey Arthur was probably right to react in the way that he did.

I mean, it's like when you're at school isn't it? You could probably get away with a sensible comment (to save your hide if asked a sticky question by a teacher - and hadn't done your homework) but if you rock back in your chair and show contempt - we'll then you could expect some form of punishment. If this is the case, then I'm more shocked that these guys were acting like indignant adolescents - and not too concerned about representing their country.

MFC : I can see your point , and I certainly know coaches who value this kind of exercise...have to admit I am not in that camp as I doubt it produces anything of value and would always prefer one on one conversations with the players where the flow of ideas can be in both directions.
As a player I think I'd be underwhelmed by the idea but agree it should have been seen as a small task that management had a right to ask for ...if they didn't wish to put things in writing then surely they could have just gone to talk to him...
Unfortunately the short term result is almost certainly a mark against the coach , at least for his judgement , loss of player resources for a vital match , and some tricky times for management/team relationships in the near future. Nota happy outcome.

Alfie, maybe they had already had some one-on-one conversations (which obviously hasn't worked to date) and this was another attempt to come up with some answers about individual performance. I hear what you're saying - but I still think it shouldn't have been too big a problem for Arthur to ask each player to do what was requested.

The fact that "the 4" didn't respond just shows that a) there's not much between their ears and they failed to pick up on the desperate sound of the warning bells or b) they thought they were somehow over and above such a pointless exercise.

It's on here now... MA seems to think it was a reasonable request.

Olly wrote:Personally if I was a coach I'd rather get one to one with a player, get to really know what's going on in the head of the player.

But I'm glad to see they have taken serious punishment on the players. Quite funny to watch as an Englishman!

It may be funny watching as an Englishman now, but come the time of the ashes it could make the aussies play like wounded animals and we all know just how dangerous wounded animals are! Anyway it would have been very interesting to see what type of reaction the likes of Rod Marsh, Dennis Lillee and Alan Border would have done/made of these paper and pen type exercises had they been ordered to do them after those 2 infamous defeats in the 1981 ashes test series at Headingley and at Edgbaston where the Aussies simply imploded on both occasions.

Linebreaker wrote:

msp83 wrote:When I read the cricinfo heading of the news of their axing, I thought they would have gone on a drinking spree and missed practice, or picked up a fight with someone or something of that kind. But when I read they are being axed for not turning in an assignment on time, I was flabbergasted!. There is a limit to these managerial nonsense!.

So did I... I was surprised to see the reason. The cats are out of the bag now so we'll just have to live with it. I wonder whether they'll have to write a 3000 word analysis of "how spin got me undone... and what am I gonna do about it" That would be a near impossible task...

Well if they did they did successfully manage to do this they would be doing PHd reseacrch degrees rather than playing cricket!

gboycottnut wrote:

Olly wrote:Personally if I was a coach I'd rather get one to one with a player, get to really know what's going on in the head of the player.

But I'm glad to see they have taken serious punishment on the players. Quite funny to watch as an Englishman!

It may be funny watching as an Englishman now, but come the time of the ashes it could make the aussies play like wounded animals and we all know just how dangerous wounded animals are! Anyway it would have been very interesting to see what type of reaction the likes of Rod Marsh, Dennis Lillee and Alan Border would have done/made of these paper and pen type exercises had they been ordered to do them after those 2 infamous defeats in the 1981 ashes test series at Headingley and at Edgbaston where the Aussies simply imploded on both occasions.

Did you write Life On Mars, Boycs?

gboycottnut wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

msp83 wrote:When I read the cricinfo heading of the news of their axing, I thought they would have gone on a drinking spree and missed practice, or picked up a fight with someone or something of that kind. But when I read they are being axed for not turning in an assignment on time, I was flabbergasted!. There is a limit to these managerial nonsense!.

So did I... I was surprised to see the reason. The cats are out of the bag now so we'll just have to live with it. I wonder whether they'll have to write a 3000 word analysis of "how spin got me undone... and what am I gonna do about it" That would be a near impossible task...

Well if they did they did successfully manage to do this they would be doing PHd reseacrch degrees rather than playing cricket!

Ed Cowan would top the class in that case. Actually - why doesn't he just get a job with the ABC and end our misery?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:also interesting to see that while msp has as usual blamed this all on the coaches Michael Clarke was also part of the decision to axe all four for the next Test. I suspect had Clarke felt strongly that they needed them they would have been made available (see Cook with KP).

MFC, I agree Clarke too has to take his fair share of blaim for this sorry saga.
But I would say these kind of ludicrous nonsense that is becoming all too regular now a days, has a lot to do with overbearing coach power in the game. Playing cricket is not like running a corporation, management has its place in the game, but managerialism is not the answer. If this is left unchecked the game will be poorer for it.
Now cricinfo reports Watson's gone home following the drama. Child birth or just a convenient excuse I don't know. Don't remember reading any report suggesting Watson was likely to go home in between like Bell did during the England series.

Just on the news here.
The stand down the primary reason (i.e. he couldn't handle being dropped) - no mention of impending child birth. Arthur was saying that plenty of opportunity to prove worth and a warning was given and a "line had been drawn in the sand."

Shamya Dasgupta, a journalist whom I follow on Twitter had met and asked Watto after the 1st test whether he is going to leave for the birth of his child and he said most likely after the 4th Test. So that can't be the reason.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/content/current/story/624494.html
This is the updated story from cricinfo about the axing. The more I read Arthur's comments, the more convinced I was that managerialism and coach power need a bloody 'line-in-the-sand moment'. A truck load of absolute garbage!. What stupid fantasies!.

Watson apparently contemplating retirement.

Just have a look at this.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/current/story/624547.html

Clarke's view of things

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2013/content/current/story/624571.html

I sense an incredible frustration there that the rest of the team isn't living up to the high standards he (and previous teams) has set. Say what you like about managerialism, this wasn't really a huge task, and that these guys felt it wasn't worth the effort doesn't speak highly of them at all. I get the feeling this was actually Clarke's decision, something along the lines of "if you really care so little about Australia cricket team then I don't want you in the team", though again that's just my interpretation...

Watson considering retirement... over-reaction much? I think unfortunately things are working both ways. Management is become a much more important part of the way cricket teams are run, maybe too much so, but equally players are becoming too pampered, and there's a tendency to throw a hissy fit when things don't go their way (KP's "retirement" from limited overs cricket because he wanted to play in the IPL, Taylor's reaction to losing the captaincy, Watson's reaction here). A balance needs to be struck: players aren't the ones to dictate the conditions under which they'll play for their country, and equally coaches need to work with the players, not against them.

rumours that a 2nd player is considering retirement as well!

I really hope its not James pattinson!

"To punish players for not being able to produce a PowerPoint presentation is baffling," Hoggard told BBC Sport. Rather missing the point, given it wasn't exactly a PowerPoint presentation being asked, but hey... Damien Martyn with probably the most balanced view...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21742082

Khawja's been dropped...but I struggle to see how he could submit anything as he hasn't played...

it was how to improve individual or team performance: watching from the sidelines, surely Khawaja could still see things that went wrong for the team? I think (given the noises that have come out from previous squads and tours and the way he was singled out here) that Khawaja has a serious attitude problem TBH.

Surely the big story here from an England perspective is our man of the series from the last 2 Ashes series could be forced into retirement. Without the free runs we get from Mitchell Johnson randomly spraying the ball around I will be a bit worried!

If the players weren't up to mark with the bloody presentation or rrite up or whatever, they could have been given a public warning, perhaps they could have been fined a considerable amount or something. But this? This just smacks of power intoxicated arrogance. and highflying stupidity.
I have a feeling the damage this is going to cause Australian cricket won't be small.

well if it leads to Watson retiring it would be a desperate shame for sure, though if it leads to Khawaja finally screwing his head on properly it might just be a very very good thing. On the whole I tend to side with the view that dropping them was extreme, and maybe a heavy fine would have been sufficient, but I still really dislike the players attitude in all this, too. Then again, I can't necessarily compare directly what it felt like for me to represent my country (huge pride, but I wasn't pro) to what these guys feel (it's their job), so maybe I'm not in the best place to judge. Like I said, would really like to canvas Mike's views on this...

Mad for Chelsea wrote:well if it leads to Watson retiring it would be a desperate shame for sure, though if it leads to Khawaja finally screwing his head on properly it might just be a very very good thing. On the whole I tend to side with the view that dropping them was extreme, and maybe a heavy fine would have been sufficient, but I still really dislike the players attitude in all this, too. Then again, I can't necessarily compare directly what it felt like for me to represent my country (huge pride, but I wasn't pro) to what these guys feel (it's their job), so maybe I'm not in the best place to judge. Like I said, would really like to canvas Mike's views on this...

Despite all the postmodern critique of 'social constructions' such as nationalism, I believe most people would feel an incredible sense of pride and self-esteem on representing their country. Sport usually is a matter of passion, and representing the country is the highest level that you can reach as a cricketer.
However said that, we have to remember representing your country has to be a matter of self-esteem for a cricketer, not a source of humiliation and disrespect.
Not sure the players at the centre of the ongoing saga can complain of humiliation, but being subjected to extreme and disproportionate punishment may not sit well with their own sense of self-worth, and it isn't fair on any human being for that matter.

Watson's considering retirement?! Yikes!

TBF as stated he could easily make a living off the IPL, and Big Bash stuff so could just say stuff you to the Aussie management