Indian Wells Day 9 (MOTD: Murray vs Del Potro)

First topic message reminder :

It's time for the first MS1000 of the year! Red and I will be updating the opening post each day with previews of matches that catch the eye, as well as completed results and draws once the tournament moves along a little. If anyone wants to contribute, please do shoot one of us a PM!

96 players are in action with 32 seeds getting a bye into the second round, meaning that as Cogen highlighted, this is the first event since Wimbledon 2011 (at least) where all of the top players in the world are in action. A few of the narratives are the possibility that Federer could be overhauled by Murray at #2, Djokovic looking to continue his unbeaten start to the season, Nadal's triumphant return to hard courts, and numerous other players in reasonable nick - can they challenge for the title, or at least create a few upsets?

Prize: A cool $1 million ($5.4 million purse), and the invaluable 1000 ranking points.
Defending champion is Roger Federer, who defeated John Isner in the 2012 final.
Updated draw on the ATP site.

Preview from Red:


Andy Murray is on the hunt for his maiden Indian Wells title. He has reached the quarter final here, for the first time since he reached the final in 2009, but has a tough task to complete if he is to get his hands on the trophy. He is up against Argentine Juan Martin Del Potro in the quarters today, and if he gets through that he can potentially face Djokovic and Nadal in the next two rounds. In his Round 4 match Murray was not at his best, and looked irritated at the end of his tight 2 set win against Berlocq. Berlocq complained that Murray was taking too long between points, Murray complained that Berlocq was grunting too loudly, and well... I think Berlocq is not on Andy's Christmas card list anymore. With the world number 2 ranking potentially on the line if he reaches the final, Murray fans will be hoping a dismissal of Del Potro will help lighten his mood.

Juan Martin Del Potro has never won a Masters 100 title before. Will this be the week he breaks his duck? He has been on good form so far this tournament, an improvement to his relatively mediocre start to 2013. However he has not yet been tested, and with all respects to Bjorn Phau, a fixture against Andy Murray will be a real step up. In Dubai Del Potro tested Djokovic in both sets, but mentally let himself down in the key moments. Will the same happen here against the Scot? The Argentinian's record against Murray isn't great, and he will have to raise his game if he wants to have a chance of winning.

Key Tactics: Murray has a convincing 5-1 lead over Del Potro in the H2H, with Juan's only win coming on clay in 2009. Murray won the last two matches these two played (also both in 2009), and he will fancy himself to continue this run of wins and extend it today. For Del Potro to win, he must be extremely aggressive, in longer rallies Murray will coast. The higher bounce of the surface should suit Del Potro, as Murray's tactic of the low slice which has worked so well against him will be negated. Thus the onus is on Del Potro to force the play, and big serving and aggressive hitting will be his only chance of winning.

Predictions: I think Murray has too much variety and nous for Del Potro, I see the 2012 USO champion winning in straight sets: 6-3 6-4.

Which means he'll be now compressed somewhere else in the schedule I presume?

2 QFs today, 2 tomorrow, so 4 players potentially compressed. He could avoid it by losing his QF

The best match was clearly Federer/Stan. Gulbis will never be permitted for a MOTD slot in any sense.

lydian wrote:

Wonder what time Djokovic got to bed last night given his match nearly finished at 2am...that is a completely ridiculous time for top pros to have to play and be expected to come back and compete 100% the next day. These late finishes should be outlawed...no starts later than 9pm in my opinion. It puts him at a disadvantage compared to other players who'll be tucked up in bed whilst he's still out there.

Its also rough on the attending crowds who will have to ruin part of their next day recovering from a late night and drive home.

From experience it is also pretty rough on those that thought it might be a good idea to sit up and watch.... Zzzzzzzz especially when they are seriously tempted to do it again.

Yeah...like tonight?

Theres always Masterchef should you get bored!

"I like a buttery biscuit base"....base, base...base, base....I like a buttery biscuit base.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Theres always Masterchef should you get bored!

Not for hawkeye. It is Celebrity Masterchef and imagine what she would do with Andy Murray on it.

lydian. Yes exactly like tonight. What is it 2am?

socal1976 wrote:I don't know Silver, Gulbis' forehand really brokedown at some key moments on some easy mid court balls. But overrall great tennis so far. This scheduling may really hurt Novak's chance of winning this match. How can he sleep tonight. I played tennis and finished at 630 and I can't get to bed. Novak will probably be up till sunrise.

Nadal gets caught getting coaching and gets warned. He calls over the lineperson who spoke spanish and the guy threw him under the bus and told the umpire his coach was telling him to hit to the backhand.

The funniest part about the coached was after it turns out the linesperson understood Spanish, Nadal switches his arguemetn from the coach was speaking in spanish and the linesperson didn't know what he was saying to "the coach was speaking in their Mallorician dialect and it's different than the spanish the linesperson knows!" lol... my oh my- I've missed Nadal.

Red wrote:Nadal may as well tank this.

The last time Fed was written off was Wimbledon 2012- ominous signs for the rest of the draw.

Please just stop with this facade ooo nana whats ya name.
Just say what you actually think!
Feds will crush rafa after his very close, pretty poor match vs stan..... rigghtttt.

If not then you are just the worst at predictions!

Seriously does it matter who wins tonight's exhibition... cough.. I mean quarter final? It wont change anything. I'm just hoping for a good show.

Shouldn't we have a special thread for it? IMO it's far too important to share a thread with other matches that don't feature two all time greats.

TRuffin wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I don't know Silver, Gulbis' forehand really brokedown at some key moments on some easy mid court balls. But overrall great tennis so far. This scheduling may really hurt Novak's chance of winning this match. How can he sleep tonight. I played tennis and finished at 630 and I can't get to bed. Novak will probably be up till sunrise.

Nadal gets caught getting coaching and gets warned. He calls over the lineperson who spoke spanish and the guy threw him under the bus and told the umpire his coach was telling him to hit to the backhand.

The funniest part about the coached was after it turns out the linesperson understood Spanish, Nadal switches his arguemetn from the coach was speaking in spanish and the linesperson didn't know what he was saying to "the coach was speaking in their Mallorician dialect and it's different than the spanish the linesperson knows!" lol... my oh my- I've missed Nadal.

I caught that as well Ruffin, he states "what if I was speaking catalan?". But in order not to upset our catalan friends it isn't a mallorcan dialect but a separate recognized language I believe and the language of choice for barcelona and large parts of eastern spain. The funny thing is Nadal first didn't know the linesperson spoke spanish, then when he got called on it he called the linesperson over and the guy threw him right under the bus. I don't know at this stage why he even needs the extra coaching but it did happen and he did get caught redhanded unless the linesperson was Tenez, I think we can rely on his unbiased recitation of the facts.

"How do you know does the linesperson speak spanish"- nadal(paraphrase)

"Yes he does"-chair umpire

"Well call him over then and ask him what I said"-nadal (paraphrase)

"His coach told him to hit to the backhand"-linesperson

"What if I was speaking catalan then how do you know"- Nadal

" -chairumpire

Not a glowing moment for Rafa, but pretty funny actually.

Not to leave Roger out of the fun, the 8 time Nike/Eberg Award winner called the supervising official out because he was not allowed to challenge a call two shots ago after he netted a volley he wanted to challenge his own wide serve, which wawrinka hit back at him and hard. You mean I can't challenge the call two shots ago, call down the supervisor.

Can we just discontinue this fake sportsmanship award, it has been permanently soiled in my opinion.

socal1976 wrote:

Not a glowing moment for Rafa, but pretty funny actually.

Either he was dissembling or trying to make a joke of his cheating - I don't find either at all funny. Good to have him back, eh?

I fear for Roger tonight, I call him getting broken in his first service game and then going through him getting a few break points throughout the set to get back in it and not converting, then out of nowhere getting broken himself again in the 2nd set. 6-3 6-4ish Nadal

Well barrystar, I often do defend Nadal when people I feel make unfair attacks on him, but there is no doubt he was caught redhanded violating the rules. I think he should pay a fine and Franciso Roig, the offending coach maybe should face a suspension from matche or sometime. I am not saying Rafa's conduct was funny, it was just kind of funny how redhanded he was caught. I actually think the coaching rule may need reform, but the rule is the rule. He did get warned but I doubt that will do much to dissuade him.

CAS wrote:I fear for Roger tonight, I call him getting broken in his first service game and then going through him getting a few break points throughout the set to get back in it and not converting, then out of nowhere getting broken himself again in the 2nd set. 6-3 6-4ish Nadal

I could easily see that happening, too. If the Federer that was on court yesterday comes out again, it could be a beatdown. I hope he makes it competitive at the very least...

And, er, MOTD preview's up. I tried not to be partisan!

socal1976 wrote:Well barrystar, I often do defend Nadal when people I feel make unfair attacks on him, but there is no doubt he was caught redhanded violating the rules. I think he should pay a fine and Franciso Roig, the offending coach maybe should face a suspension from matche or sometime. I am not saying Rafa's conduct was funny, it was just kind of funny how redhanded he was caught. I actually think the coaching rule may need reform, but the rule is the rule. He did get warned but I doubt that will do much to dissuade him.

Fair enough - agree about one element of the punishement. I think the offending coach should be ejected from the match instantly and he/she should be banned from being a spectator for a set number of further matches. The coaching rule is important in my view. It's a way of not disadvantaging lower ranked players (usually younger ones) who cannot afford entourages or full-time personal coaches and also of ensuring that we watch a match between players rather than an arms race between players and their entourages. I want to see whether a player can keep his cool and work his opponent out and change his gameplan to suit if necessary. I don't want to see who has the best array of coaches.

socal1976 wrote:

TRuffin wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I don't know Silver, Gulbis' forehand really brokedown at some key moments on some easy mid court balls. But overrall great tennis so far. This scheduling may really hurt Novak's chance of winning this match. How can he sleep tonight. I played tennis and finished at 630 and I can't get to bed. Novak will probably be up till sunrise.

Nadal gets caught getting coaching and gets warned. He calls over the lineperson who spoke spanish and the guy threw him under the bus and told the umpire his coach was telling him to hit to the backhand.

The funniest part about the coached was after it turns out the linesperson understood Spanish, Nadal switches his arguemetn from the coach was speaking in spanish and the linesperson didn't know what he was saying to "the coach was speaking in their Mallorician dialect and it's different than the spanish the linesperson knows!" lol... my oh my- I've missed Nadal.

I caught that as well Ruffin, he states "what if I was speaking catalan?". But in order not to upset our catalan friends it isn't a mallorcan dialect but a separate recognized language I believe and the language of choice for barcelona and large parts of eastern spain. The funny thing is Nadal first didn't know the linesperson spoke spanish, then when he got called on it he called the linesperson over and the guy threw him right under the bus. I don't know at this stage why he even needs the extra coaching but it did happen and he did get caught redhanded unless the linesperson was Tenez, I think we can rely on his unbiased recitation of the facts.

"How do you know does the linesperson speak spanish"- nadal(paraphrase)

"Yes he does"-chair umpire

"Well call him over then and ask him what I said"-nadal (paraphrase)

"His coach told him to hit to the backhand"-linesperson

"What if I was speaking catalan then how do you know"- Nadal

" -chairumpire

Not a glowing moment for Rafa, but pretty funny actually.

Yes, my apologies for not knowing the different dialects.. dumb american..lol..

It was pretty pathetic honestly... Did you see the look on Nadals face when the linesman revealed he knew what they said-- his whole expression went slack and he immediatly changed his excuse... It reminds me of the Wimby incident where he was fined- he swore up and down they weren't coaching him... meanwhile the fine statemetn read that Wimby officials "after carefully reviewing audio and visual evidence" lol...

I think it's a big issue.. As someone said- part of the skill and beauty of the game is problem solving issues, tactics while out there... I've seen people argue that it doesnt' really help him, but Toni's been shown clearly signaling him positioning and where the serve was coming in matches-- that's a massive advantage to a player. It really is.. to have a spotter up high seeing things you can't see. Toni's coaching completely changed the Berdych match at the AO-- NAdal was way too far back on return and couldn't or wouldn't change by himslef... The camera's clearly showed Toni telling him to move in closer. Nadal did and the match changed in his favor. That's cheating.

Well Ruffin, it definetly is something that should be looked into and it looks pretty clear that he was caught in violation of the rules. Not a bright day for Rafa frankly, but it didn't get much run in the media. It is a form of cheating, a mild form of cheating, but not a good thing to do. In Nadal's defense the coach could have gotten carried away and yelled one time and maybe it was unsolicited, then really Roig is the culprit and not Nadal. This isn't the first time so that kind of cuts against that argument as well. I'd like to know how often it happened over the course of the match to judge the severity of the violation. I mean the player doesn't really have control over what the coach blurts out, but since this isn't the first offense and he did try to cover it up, not a good thing.

TRuffin wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

TRuffin wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I don't know Silver, Gulbis' forehand really brokedown at some key moments on some easy mid court balls. But overrall great tennis so far. This scheduling may really hurt Novak's chance of winning this match. How can he sleep tonight. I played tennis and finished at 630 and I can't get to bed. Novak will probably be up till sunrise.

Nadal gets caught getting coaching and gets warned. He calls over the lineperson who spoke spanish and the guy threw him under the bus and told the umpire his coach was telling him to hit to the backhand.

The funniest part about the coached was after it turns out the linesperson understood Spanish, Nadal switches his arguemetn from the coach was speaking in spanish and the linesperson didn't know what he was saying to "the coach was speaking in their Mallorician dialect and it's different than the spanish the linesperson knows!" lol... my oh my- I've missed Nadal.

I caught that as well Ruffin, he states "what if I was speaking catalan?". But in order not to upset our catalan friends it isn't a mallorcan dialect but a separate recognized language I believe and the language of choice for barcelona and large parts of eastern spain. The funny thing is Nadal first didn't know the linesperson spoke spanish, then when he got called on it he called the linesperson over and the guy threw him right under the bus. I don't know at this stage why he even needs the extra coaching but it did happen and he did get caught redhanded unless the linesperson was Tenez, I think we can rely on his unbiased recitation of the facts.

"How do you know does the linesperson speak spanish"- nadal(paraphrase)

"Yes he does"-chair umpire

"Well call him over then and ask him what I said"-nadal (paraphrase)

"His coach told him to hit to the backhand"-linesperson

"What if I was speaking catalan then how do you know"- Nadal

" -chairumpire

Not a glowing moment for Rafa, but pretty funny actually.

Yes, my apologies for not knowing the different dialects.. dumb american..lol..

It was pretty pathetic honestly... Did you see the look on Nadals face when the linesman revealed he knew what they said-- his whole expression went slack and he immediatly changed his excuse... It reminds me of the Wimby incident where he was fined- he swore up and down they weren't coaching him... meanwhile the fine statemetn read that Wimby officials "after carefully reviewing audio and visual evidence" lol...

I think it's a big issue.. As someone said- part of the skill and beauty of the game is problem solving issues, tactics while out there... I've seen people argue that it doesnt' really help him, but Toni's been shown clearly signaling him positioning and where the serve was coming in matches-- that's a massive advantage to a player. It really is.. to have a spotter up high seeing things you can't see. Toni's coaching completely changed the Berdych match at the AO-- NAdal was way too far back on return and couldn't or wouldn't change by himslef... The camera's clearly showed Toni telling him to move in closer. Nadal did and the match changed in his favor. That's cheating.

It doesn't happen by mistake - on repeat offences I'd ban coaches joining the spectators at their players' matches for very long periods - whichever is the longest of the rest of the season or 6 months would be a good starter. Quite simply there's no excuse for it, none. That way you aren't calling the player for being a cheat, you are removing the source of the problem and letting the player get on with his/her play. If the player complains then it's clear that he/she is a cheat.

But none of the above is Nadal himself cheating...he's not asking for the coaching and in the past has even told Toni to shut up. Re: last night, he wants to sack Roig because the last place you would tell Nadal to focus is on Gulbis's BH which is world class...its the FH that breaks down! (and did...)

lol, where has this forum been without Nadal to discuss. Love or hate him the game is much drier without the guy.

Yes that is the funniest thing of the whole incident, Rafa you pay Roig for that advice and for his travel expenses? Gulbis when on has one of the best backhands on tour, and a forehand that looks like someone at the start of an epileptic fit and he tells you to hit to the backhand. Again it is the coach that is giving advice while Nadal isn't really soliciting it. But on the flip side it isn't the first time, and Nadal did try to cover it up that is the part that makes it not quite as blameless on his part as you portray it lydian.

On an organisational level, why are the quarters played over two days? Surely it would make more sense to have played the Round of 16 over two days (yesterday and today)

I agree with that Ryan, I don't know why they had to have this marathon of tennis love, I think the other masters play all the men's quarters on one day and split up the round of 16.

Yeah, I've no idea why IW, or even some of the slams, play 1/4's etc on separate days, it creates an imbalance straight away.

Agree socal, I'm not going to defend coaching being given because I moan about it myself when I watch my son play matches against opponents receiving coaching themselves. But you know what the Mallorcan's and the Nadal family - of which Roig is kind of an extended member - are like, they will always revert to being defensive of their own. That said, I have no idea if that's what Roig actually said given the so called translation reveals somewhat dubious advice!

going to the backhand opens up the forehand side, I dont think Gulbis wants to hit too many running forehands with that long take back. I can see where he's coming from.

Yeah but its also Gulbis strength too and he'd be as likely to hit a winner or a shot Nadal couldn't get back without being in trouble himself. Since when do you attack someone's strength as a primary tactic? It would be like Toni telling Nadal to play to Roger forehand. I just don't also buy that Nadal needs to be told what to do.

socal1976 wrote:Yes that is the funniest thing of the whole incident, Rafa you pay Roig for that advice and for his travel expenses? Gulbis when on has one of the best backhands on tour, and a forehand that looks like someone at the start of an epileptic fit and he tells you to hit to the backhand. Again it is the coach that is giving advice while Nadal isn't really soliciting it. But on the flip side it isn't the first time, and Nadal did try to cover it up that is the part that makes it not quite as blameless on his part as you portray it lydian.

I really cannot see how you can blame Nadal if Roig is shouting out advice which as you say is unsolicited.. yes doubtless Rafa might have tried to cover it up`.. more from embarassment than anything else..
The Spaniards have a habit of being vocal when frankly they should keep their mouth shut. Having been fined for a similar situation a while back you would have thought Roig would have learned an expensive lesson. But Im sorry socal I do not see how you can attribute blame to Nadal since he was probably trying to shut him up. I doubt that Rafa needed to be told to pummel the backhand anyway.

sometimes players defend worse off the strength, I think Federer defends better off his backhand. You just have to time it well, otherwise you will be punished. And this is Nadal we are talking about, I think he is capable in handling a few BHs from Gulbis if it means in the long run you will gets to his FH. I remember Hewitt saying Roger needs to drive his backhand at Nadals forehand, mad at first but with the extreme take back you might get a short ball and Federer can mop it up.

The cover up part of it makes him kind of complicit in the whole thing and since it isn't the first time an argument could be made that this is kind of their operating procedure Haddie. Again, I agree to an extent if the coach has diarreahea of the mouth it isn't the player's fault if it is an isolated thing. But if it happens regularly and the player covers for the coach, now it becomes a bit sticky to try to absolve the player of the coach's conduct.

I agree with CAS on his lydian maybe Roig was telling him to hit to the backhand so he could on the next shot go to the forehand and force Gulbis to hit that shot on the run.

Toni and co. should just STFU when Nadal is playing.
In USO a few years ago Nadal got really peed off after Toni kept on telling him what to do on court, it was in his autobiography, I think against Istomin 2010. Nadal did then exactly the opposite of what Toni said and he won the point... and there was a breakdown in relations.

Love how no one is talking about Federer's challenge affair vs Wawrinka No doubt if Nadal had done the same, people would be tearing into him.

socal1976 wrote:I agree with CAS on his lydian maybe Roig was telling him to hit to the backhand so he could on the next shot go to the forehand and force Gulbis to hit that shot on the run.

This is surely correct if only because it's Nadal's bread and butter tactic. I can understand his camp wanting him to do this, and in some ways I felt during the match that Nadal wasn't 'tactically fit' yet, if that makes sense. He's still picking up the playing patterns after a long layoff, so maybe he defaulted to the basic strategy rather than adapt into unfamiliarity (at this stage in his comeback). What do you reckon? I actually agree with lydian though, I think it was bad advice on the night and he should've nailed Gulbis' forehand to the post, particularly late on in the match when it began to crumble slightly. His backhand was rock solid.

Red's right about Federer too, it was out of order. The only saving grace is that he accepted the organiser's decision pretty swiftly without carrying on about it, but he should've never demanded to see him in the first place, regardless of frustration. The fact he DF'd straight afterwards - IIRC - indicates that it didn't help him!

Great preview Silver.

Personally I think Federer will win this in straight sets.

I talked about Red, but for some reason everyone is focusing on the nadal thing I think because it is a violation of the rules. But the fed thing is really overboard. Especially, considering that Stan is his friend and he has abused the guy in their h2h to make such a big deal about it and argue that he should get a preferential challenge in violation of the rule is another Edberg Award winning moment in my mind.

Red wrote:Toni and co. should just STFU when Nadal is playing.
In USO a few years ago Nadal got really peed off after Toni kept on telling him what to do on court, it was in his autobiography, I think against Istomin 2010. Nadal did then exactly the opposite of what Toni said and he won the point... and there was a breakdown in relations.

Love how no one is talking about Federer's challenge affair vs Wawrinka No doubt if Nadal had done the same, people would be tearing into him.

I'm not sure how Federer calling for a challenge, then openly arguing with the official whether he was right or wrong, then calling for a higher up to make a ruling is even close to the same as someone receiving coaching, blantantly lying that his coach wasn't saying anything wrong, then when busted, changing it to another excuse..

Federer might have been wrong technically. The tennis channel comm's said by the rule book he didnt' have a case, but as former players (one of them) they completely agreed with him.. When you serve and volley- you go.... as you are rushing to the net, muscle memory alone is going to make you hit the ball coming at you... They timed it in slowmo, and from the second Fed hit the serve to him raising his hand for the challenge was 1.98 seconds.. I think it's reasonalbe to feel you should be allowed to challenge. He argued his case, was wrong as most of the players usually are, asked for an overrule-- all within the rules books..

IF Nadal did that- I certainly would not bring it up and tear into him.

Silver the thing that rubbed me wrong about it is that no one in the history the challenge has ever been allowed a challenge two shots after the missed call, why does Roger make such a beef about it, against his poor abused friend of all people? I mean I have seen umps not give a challenge because after one shot you wait a split second too long. What is all this about? You hit a serve, the guy hits a return, you miss a volley, and then you demand a challenge of the serve? And get peed when it isn't given. I think Novak should come to the defense of Stan and criticize Roger in the media for his unsportsmanlike conduct towards Stan.

Stan could be the Switzerland in the ongoing Cold War! I do think it was wrong of Federer to bang on about it for as long as he did - I can understand him asking the ump for clarification as there wasn't much time for him to react before the volley, but it shouldn't have gone any further really.

Thanks Red

Red wrote:

.......................................................................................

Love how no one is talking about Federer's challenge affair vs Wawrinka No doubt if Nadal had done the same, people would be tearing into him.

Well I'm not sure how many folk here have actually seen the incident but it seems that socal did - and has not wasted the opportunity to talk about it (in at least two separate posts)

The forum's agenda is set by the individual members. If you feel that strongly about the Federer challenge then why not start a thread on the matter .....?

And if you DON'T feel strongly about it ....... then perhaps that's something you have in common with the majority of other members (socal excepted )

Federer was asking the umpire to go against the rule and listen to his plea.. and frankly his protestations were overboard (especially considering he was incorrect about the rules here).
Now I'm not saying this absorbs the Nadal camp of any blame... I just don't like it if we focus on all the negatives of one object, but totally ignore/ dress up the negatives of something else.
Nadal has got annoyed before at his camp for shouting things out, as I said in USO he had a massive breakdown with Toni because he kept on telling him things to do... and Nadal did not agree with them. Then Nadal on purpose did the opposite to what Toni was saying (I think this is against Istomin as I was saying earlier), and thus the breakdown in relationship.
I agree with Barry that coaches should be punished heavily if they coach on court.

IF Nadal did that- I certainly would not bring it up and tear into him.

For some reason I doubt this statement very much.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Yes that is the funniest thing of the whole incident, Rafa you pay Roig for that advice and for his travel expenses? Gulbis when on has one of the best backhands on tour, and a forehand that looks like someone at the start of an epileptic fit and he tells you to hit to the backhand. Again it is the coach that is giving advice while Nadal isn't really soliciting it. But on the flip side it isn't the first time, and Nadal did try to cover it up that is the part that makes it not quite as blameless on his part as you portray it lydian.

I really cannot see how you can blame Nadal if Roig is shouting out advice which as you say is unsolicited.. yes doubtless Rafa might have tried to cover it up`.. more from embarassment than anything else..
The Spaniards have a habit of being vocal when frankly they should keep their mouth shut. Having been fined for a similar situation a while back you would have thought Roig would have learned an expensive lesson. But Im sorry socal I do not see how you can attribute blame to Nadal since he was probably trying to shut him up. I doubt that Rafa needed to be told to pummel the backhand anyway.

I think that you are assuming he covered it up from embarrassment.... you really don't know why he covered it up. So all we can go by is the fact that he did blantantly lie that he wasn't being coached, got completely busted on it by the linesman who understood what was being said, then came up with a more comical excuse. + he kept arguing during changeover so it's not like he tried to end the situation out of embarressment.

The other thing is at some point- Nadal cleary says that he himself was speaking to the coach in catalan(?)... he asks "how do you know what I was saying" so that indicates a mutual conversation which contradicts it being the coach speaking out of turn. Nadal doesn't say "I was tellig him to shut up" nor did the linesman say "the coach told him to hit the backhand but Nadal told him to not coach him" That is all just guess work on your part.

Mabye your right and it was unsolicited- but the coaches have been caught doing this multiple times. So I do blame him if he hasn't directed the team to shut up under any costs... He's the boss. Also, as we have also seen- Nadal has taken the coaching and done what he was told.. He clearly changed his return positioning under Toni's diretion against Berdych at the AO whihc completley changed the match.. that is wrong on both of their parts.

It was in no way reasonable Ruffin, rose tinted spectacles and some fed apologism if I may be so blunt. The tennis channel guys did not agree with him I was watching the thing. Plus isn't this his friend stan wawrinka who he got so upset at Djokovic for calling for an MTO in the match against him and lambasted Djokovic for having the audacity to make use of an established rule. When has a player ever, ever in the history of the challenge system been allowed a challenge two shots after the disputted call? Why would federer demand to speak to the supervising official especially in light of who his opponent is. Haven't you abused poor stan enough?

Lags- I am just calling for some balance.

socal1976 wrote:When has a player ever, ever in the history of the challenge system been allowed a challenge two shots after the disputted call? Why would federer demand to speak to the supervising attorney especially in light of who his opponent is.

I think Federer thought he could influence the umpire to go against the rules in his favour, but unfortunately for him he was unsuccessful in his attempt.

Red wrote:Great preview Silver.

Personally I think Federer will win this in straight sets.

Exactly who do you think you're fooling? Not a person on the forum (1) thinks Federer is playing well enough to win, or (2) think you actually elieve that.

Honestly amrit, you can change the Nic but this kind of stuff is like a signature.

Yes he was trying to pressure the umpire to violate the rule, in this context his conduct is every bit as bad Red. And I am sorry I know there are no friends in a tennis match, but it was really disrespectful to Stan, and disrespectful frankly to the rules of the game and sportsmanship.

Well rather than just call for it, do what socal does ; ie slag off Federer for every perceived misdemeanour (how on earth did he win all those Sportsmanship awards as voted by his peers ....??) and then it puts other players such as Rafa and Novak in a better light.

Job done !

Federer was completely in the wrong it doesn't matter what ex-players (all usually so far up his backside anyway) think. The challenge should be immediate if you wish to stop the point: I think it's bad enough too many umpires let a player first miss his shot before challenging, but letting your opponent make his return, then miss your volley, before deciding you want to challenge? sorry but it's ridiculous. If you genuinely think your serve was out you stop playing the point, at the very least there's a hesitation. Federer showed none of that, it was only after missing his volley (off a cracking return) that he thought about it.

Nadal of course was equally in the wrong. It doesn't matter if he wanted his coaches to say anything or not: he knows coaching is against the rules having already been pinged for it in the past, and his box are his responsibility. His excuse-making was at best, incredibly clumsy, and at worst a downright attempt to lie his way out of trouble.

Neither player covered himself in glory.

The winners of the last 9 Nike/Edberg Awards couched themselves in glory last night, can we just terminate said soiled award forever?