Edinburgh vs. Ulster (22 March)

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone know if this game is going to be televised?

Ta

MrsP wrote:There was no TMO to ask Clive.

Oh right...

MrsP wrote:There was no TMO to ask Clive.

They should have asked Gusher...


OK maybe not!

I don't think we were close enough Clive and there was no protest. My team for next week would be

Court
Best
Afoa
Muller
Tuohy
Henderson(if fit)
Henry(if fit)
Williams
Pienaar
Jackson
Gilroy
Marshall
Cave
Trimble
Payne

If we can get that team out and give the first team a good 60 intense minutes against Leinster I will be happy. We desperately are lacking at the breakdown. Rennie was a complete nuisance.

Anyone else wondering why the BBc commentator was saying this could be the end of Ulster's season? Think he mentioned it twice towards the end of the match

Yea, its worth noting that we played tonight without

Best
Henderson
Henry
Wilson
Pienaar
Wallace
L Marshall
Gilroy
Bowe

and our third choice 12 got injured in the first half.

Just thinking. I may be doing Allen a disservice in terms of his play tonight. His kick ahead was the right option but just too strong. His delayed pass to Payne for the try though was pure class

Our season is in freefall manky. It's not over and we are a QF win away from everything being rosy. The Leinster game is vital now though. It is a must win as I don't see us going in to win a QF with a L-W-L-D-L-L record with much expectation

That's just Gusher.

No "middle ground" with him. We are either world beaters or would be demoted if that was possible.

Plus he's getting on a bit and when he's not mixing up our players, mis-interpreting the refs decisions and awarding the scrums to the wrong team he also forgets we have the play-offs!

Love his wee cotton socks though!

clivemcl wrote:Yea, its worth noting that we played tonight without

Best
Henderson
Henry
Wilson
Pienaar
Wallace
L Marshall
Gilroy
Bowe

and our third choice 12 got injured in the first half.

And Ferris!

MrsP wrote:There was no TMO to ask Clive.

I was watching the game and was surprised that there was no TMO.

Is that common in the Rabo for a televised match?

Manky-Flanker wrote:Anyone else wondering why the BBc commentator was saying this could be the end of Ulster's season? Think he mentioned it twice towards the end of the match

It was getting on my nerves but to be fair, knowing Jim Neilly, it's almost certainly because he's entirely forgotten it goes into playoffs after the end of the regular season

Great to see Edinburgh win. Clearly missed Rennie who made a big difference and great for Scotland to see him back playing. Didn't seem to be holding back in contact despite the shoulder injury which bodes well. Thought talei had his best game in quite a while and Kennedy looked very good. Now for Glasgow to make it a Scottish double tomorrow.

Finally - a half decent performance that from Edinburgh! The defence was pretty good on the whole, some strong tackling, scrum went well and the lineout was less of a disaster than usual (although far from perfect). The best point though was the ball carrying, where we consistently made yards through the phases.

Strong individual performances from Gilchrist, McInally and Talei. Talei would have been my MOTM, great to have his destructive ball carrying back. A lively (albeit not perfect) performance from Kennedy as well.

Tonks carried and kicked well, and Francis was positive (although we really ought to have scored that try late on). Fife looks ok at centre, if a little rusty. A couple of Ulster line breaks came through the centres. Brown and Jones were nothing more than committed really. Ultimately I think Fife goes onto the wing and either NDL or Cairns come into outside centre.

One where the result certainly mattered more than the performance for us. Ulster will no doubt howl about mitigating circumstances (see above), and clearly their injury list is rough on them, but you can't expect to win games when your goal kicker frankly isn't up to the job. A couple of those misses were just basic kicks. That's twice Jackson's come to Murrayfield and choked - clearly not his favourite place to kick.

Plenty more to come from Ulster this season. Williams didn't really look fit, but when he gets going your pack has a focal point, and Afoa was prominent (thought he was unlucky a couple of times not to win a scrum penalty). Marshall was sharp and a handful at 9, and Jackson's open play (as opposed to his goal kicking) asked lots of questions of the Edinburgh defence. I liked you 12 as well - thought he looked promising.

Still final word to Edinburgh. Good win.

greytiger wrote:

MrsP wrote:There was no TMO to ask Clive.

I was watching the game and was surprised that there was no TMO.

Is that common in the Rabo for a televised match?

I have no idea why there was TV but no TMO.

Maybe the decision to provide TV coverage was a late one. I know there was some confusion amongst fans and even the clubs as to whether the match would be televised.

Now that's more like it.

You know what - I actually thought that was a very good Edinburgh performance. Very committed defence, competitive set piece fantastic rampaging ball carrying and some potency in attack.

What pleases me most is that performance reminded me of what Edinburgh as a rugby team are good at. We carried the ball hard and in space, and were committed an aggressive in defence.

Ulster were poor to be honest, lacking the basics and too many knock ons. Payne was your best player by a mile, and the less said about Jackson's kicking the better!

Positives

We won!!!!!!

Rennie lasted the full 80 and put a big shift in. If only he was fit during the 6N

Talei was back to his bulliking best - I really hope we can get him to sign a new contract. Glasgow have shown that you need competition in the back row to be successful.

Gilchrist and Cox put in a massive shift

Francis actually looked pretty good! I've given a lot of stick to him but he put in a very assured performance tonight, that conversion aside. The coaches took a risk picking him and it paid off.

Negatives

Lineout was still dodgy

We still tried out best to shoot oursleves in the foot. We did excellently well to turn them over on our own line then we let them straight back into attack us with poor execution.

I was disappointed with Kennedy - obviously it is very early days but he made some basic errors and key times. Probably a bit harsh! Will be a good 2nd choice to Laidlaw though.


Final point is the crowd of 4700 - yes there were a lot of Ulster fans there but there were more Edinburgh fans. It has been a long, hard season but tonight has helped ease the pain, slightly!

Ok read through a lot of comments online on Twitter and various places - apparently Kennedy played quite well! I take it back - must have missed it in my freezing cold delirium.

Well done Embra. Now for mañana in Dubs

Cheers 21st - I know that would have been difficult for you to say!

Ahhh, first win in EH12 since November last year!

Nothing like the return of some key players and a new coaching set up!
Looking at our remaining fixtures...
Zebre away
Connacht home
Treviso away
Dragons home

3/4 seems doable...

Zebre away is looking a lot less worrying now.

it would be terrible if they went a whole season without a win - let's just hope it doesn't happen next week.

I agree glove - at least 3 wins and our season will at least end with some respectability.

WHEY HEY just got back in the house............ its bloody freezing but I DO NOT CARE

Rennie is back, and a great 80 mins he put in, some good hits and was a right pain in the loose, Talei was a beast and McInally MOM in my opinion the back row balance was good and the pack played well as a unit

Got a warm feeling in my frozen pants

Notch wrote:

toml wrote:Andrew Trimble must wish he had went to France. He was head and shoulders ahead of every Ulster player.
Herring was decent as was Olding.
Paul Marshall abysmal - think he will be off
Jackson had a shocker
Afoa poor

Starting to wonder what Anscombe is coaching them. He's had a great honeymoon period, but now they don't seem to know what to do and like Ireland there is no plan B or C

Thats a ridiculous over reaction. Think we look quite well coached! Most of what went wrong were errors at the wrong time, penalties given away, missed kicks at goal- was a game we could have easily won. We just had to be patient and grind them down and thats what we did- earnt three kickable penalties and missed them. Game probably turned on that. Thought we actually improved massively tonight given how bad we were in the Six Nations! Just happened Edinburgh were defensively sound and dealt with everything we threw at them.

It happens. Some times the other team pulls out a big performance and denies you. I was raging after the Ospreys and Treviso games because that was points thrown away by us. Tonight, Edinburgh were just really good defensively and smothered us. I was pleased we didn't panic and kept playing the right way. But exceptionally disappointed by the result.

Good post Notch, agree with all of that.

Don't know what the exact stats are but it seems Ulster usually lose when Rennie is in the Edinburgh side. It's disappointing to lose, but Edinburgh deserve a lot of credit - that was a pivotal game for them. It was effectively the first game to see how the players would respond to the new coaches, and I suspect a few players like Atiga and Francis were playing for their futures and one or two like Tonks and Gilchrist playing for their reputations.

Jackson doesn't deserve any criticism. He is still two or three years away from being consistent and everyone knew he would be hit and miss this season - including Humphreys who decided he would be first choice. Ulster did get Muller and Williams back on the pitch (albeit not at the same time), and Payne is back. All were rusty and not match fit but at least they are back in contention. Ulster got a LBP and that was all they deserved.

Kennedy looked very promising. Run up a couple of blind alleyways and kicked out on the full a couple of times but his pace, fitness and speed of service were generally of a very high standard. Whene laidlaw returns he'll be an excellent impact sub, and one for the not too distant future. Very promising.

I loved it how Greig Laidlaw and Roddy Grant were the water boys - sends out a real good message and they are a good presence to have to pass on messages on the pitch and keep the guys going.

Who should us Ulster fans be wanting to win tonight? Glasgow or Leinster??

Glasgow, then you'll still be in second?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Glasgow, then you'll still be in second?

Leinster obviously. If we deny them a bp then you will still be in 2nd and you get a crack at us next week.

Didn't realise Sean Kennedy only came back to Edinburgh on Monday at the same time as the new coaches - sounds like he's not really been involved with Edinburgh much at all cause he said he had to be introduced to everyone!

Impressed with Kennedy, keeps the tempo up and has quick service.

Talei did well, great to see him thundering into contact again.

Rennie is just class, best NH openside in my opinion.

Thought Ford looked envigorated when he came on, plus Yapp and Cross did well.

Backs are looking a little classless but re-introduction of Scott and Visser will help.

Welcome back Embra.

The match isn't on iplayer, so here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46lgxKoU1w

Ulster had to be the worst side Edinburgh had played this season, would everyone had been so happy if the poor Jackson had kicked his kicks ?

Janecory wrote:Ulster had to be the worst side Edinburgh had played this season, would everyone had been so happy if the poor Jackson had kicked his kicks ?

In fairness to Jackson the worst kick of the night goes to Edinburgh Piers Francis, about 15m out (if that) maybe 5m to the left of the posts and he misses

GLove39 wrote:

Janecory wrote:Ulster had to be the worst side Edinburgh had played this season, would everyone had been so happy if the poor Jackson had kicked his kicks ?

In fairness to Jackson the worst kick of the night goes to Edinburgh Piers Francis, about 15m out (if that) maybe 5m to the left of the posts and he misses

But Francis didnt miss 5 out of 6 kickes, Jackson did !
Forwards competed a bit for a change, so the backs had a bit more ball, but still lucky to get a Win. Poor Ulster side.
Not convinced myself !

Janecory wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

Janecory wrote:Ulster had to be the worst side Edinburgh had played this season, would everyone had been so happy if the poor Jackson had kicked his kicks ?

In fairness to Jackson the worst kick of the night goes to Edinburgh Piers Francis, about 15m out (if that) maybe 5m to the left of the posts and he misses

But Francis didnt miss 5 out of 6 kickes, Jackson did !
Forwards competed a bit for a change, so the backs had a bit more ball, but still lucky to get a Win. Poor Ulster side.
Not convinced myself !

Pretty sure it was 4/5. Don't get me wrong, one swallow doesn't make a summer etc but compared to some of the dross served up recently under Bradley this was a refreshing change. Plus all of Jackson's misses pale into insignificance when you see how Francis managed to knock the ball on, on the Ulster try line.

Thought it was knocked out his hands?

I actually thought piers played pretty well. Shows what can happen when your forwards aren't getting destroyed!

SO good to see Talei back to his best. He just has no right to make the carries he does considering how upright he runs.

Greigs going to have to speed up his service if he wants to keep his place from Limerick-born-Kennedy, and unfortunately I just dont see Leck getting much more gametime which is a shame as hes never let us down.

How did we let Kennedy get away... Has he made a cap for Scotland yet?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How did we let Kennedy get away... Has he made a cap for Scotland yet?

'A' Cap vs England in Feb. So tied to Scotland! Bugger eh?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How did we let Kennedy get away... Has he made a cap for Scotland yet?

he didnt really "get away", hes half Irish half Scottish and born in limerick, but came through the stirling county youth system and sounds Scottish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j1Fjut2dcTM#t=107s

Imperialbigdave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How did we let Kennedy get away... Has he made a cap for Scotland yet?

he didnt really "get away", hes half Irish half Scottish and born in limerick, but came through the stirling county youth system and sounds Scottish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j1Fjut2dcTM#t=107s

Fair enough.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How did we let Kennedy get away... Has he made a cap for Scotland yet?

he didnt really "get away", hes half Irish half Scottish and born in limerick, but came through the stirling county youth system and sounds Scottish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j1Fjut2dcTM#t=107s

fair enough. It's just that we (like yourselves) have a small player base to choose from. We have to keep our eyes on all options.

Edinburgh doing Glasgow a favour there!!!

Would have been a different result had wee paddy not been a shoiter at goal kicking.

Francis needs a bench slot. About time Edinburgh brought heathcote in from bath IMO.

The reality is this Ulster team has lost all confidence and is on a downward spiral I can't see changing.

Muller was clearly not fit , nor was Payne.
In fact I would go as far as to say from 4 to 15 Ulster have at most 3 players fully fit who make the first XV.

Williams will make Saracens but other than that Ulster will be struggling big time 4 to 8.

I said a few weeks ago we will be well beaten by Saracens I stand by that.

Hope I am wrong but I don't think I am

To all those optomists out there what do you think is going to change to turn things around??

geoff998rugby wrote:The reality is this Ulster team has lost all confidence and is on a downward spiral I can't see changing.

Muller was clearly not fit , nor was Payne.
In fact I would go as far as to say from 4 to 15 Ulster have at most 3 players fully fit who make the first XV.

Williams will make Saracens but other than that Ulster will be struggling big time 4 to 8.

I said a few weeks ago we will be well beaten by Saracens I stand by that.

Hope I am wrong but I don't think I am

To all those optomists out there what do you think is going to change to turn things around??

Players back Geoff. When you say muller and Payne aren't fit do you mean as regards gametime or as regards their injuries?

Payne didn't look too bad but rusty and showed some gas for our try.

Payne was one of the best players on the pitch IMO. He did tire near the end but should be good to go in a couple of weeks.

Standulstermen wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:The reality is this Ulster team has lost all confidence and is on a downward spiral I can't see changing.

Muller was clearly not fit , nor was Payne.
In fact I would go as far as to say from 4 to 15 Ulster have at most 3 players fully fit who make the first XV.

Williams will make Saracens but other than that Ulster will be struggling big time 4 to 8.

I said a few weeks ago we will be well beaten by Saracens I stand by that.

Hope I am wrong but I don't think I am

To all those optomists out there what do you think is going to change to turn things around??

Players back Geoff. When you say muller and Payne aren't fit do you mean as regards gametime or as regards their injuries?

Payne didn't look too bad but rusty and showed some gas for our try.

Neither Muller and Payne are neither fully fit or match fit.
Muller was well out of it and should never have started - Payne was feeling his groin near the end not a good sign

Which players coming back are going to make a big difference?

Henry certaintly but he will not be match fit and possible not physically fully fit.
I would be amazed if Hendo makes it.
It is 4 to 8 that is the area I just can't see us getting our act together.

We will go int against Saracens, probably, with:
Tuohy 90%
Muller 70%
Diack
Williams 90%
Henry 80%

Thats isn't good enouigh

Maybe not Geoff but I wouldn't give up the ghost just yet. We have a massive game this weekend and any sort of result down there (however unlikely) will be a massive boost.

We can choose to feel sorry for ourselves or we can get together and make sure that if we are only at 80% injury wise then we get that 80% and not 78 or 70%. I was confident after round 6 but I now have Saracens as big favourites. Doesn't mean we have to go quietly. If we get

Court
Best
Afoa
Tuohy
Muller
Diack
Henry
Williams
Pienaar
Jackson
Gilroy
Marshall
Cave
Trimble
Payne

Out on the pitch we will give anybody a game

I don't really think there is much correllation between Rabo form and Heino Performances.

If anything the dip in league form may be a blessing in disguise. We'll be heading in against Saracens as underdogs and that will suit us.

I'm pretty happy where we are right now. We are almost certain of a play off spot and still in with the possibility of a top 2 finish.

Everything is still in our own hands, the next few weeks will define our season but its all to play for.

SUFTUM.

In fact looking at the fixtures I'd still fancy us to top the table.

Leinster and Glasgow have the tougher run in.