Changes for the wales match.

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd create this thread in the hope any WUMS would be left to the match thread.

Who would you change for the England team next week?

Personally I'd start with B. Youngs over care, T. Youngs over Hartley and bring Morgan back in as I think we lacked carriers. I think Farrell needs to start too.

Marler
Youngs
Cole
Launchberry
Parling (if not injured)
Wood
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
an 11
Twelvetrees
Tuilagi
Ashton
Brown

Is your suggested team from earlier. Changing out Goode for Brown and bringing in 12T is actually quite a big change tactically. Yes 12T could do the distributing role Goode does atm, but you have lost your defensive captain in the backs and really changed how your back three operate, which in turn affects how people drop back to cover kicks etc. You have said AN Other at 11. Strettle? If not, then they haven't been in the core group and have a lot to catch up on.

Changing 8 and 9 I agree with. I thought Mako played well actually in the first half. I would be tempted to sub him earlier. Changing for Marler is ok though I guess.

I just really hope Morgan is back so Wood can go back to 6. If not, give Billy V a chance - he's ferocious in attack and tackles like a train.

Shame for 36, but we need Barritts defence vs Wales.

Youngs and Farrel are clear no 1 combination & must start. I know Flood is more "creative", but Farrel is a better game manager.

Only other change I'd love is Brown to full back & a proper winger (or Foden) on the wing. I agree Ashton's rubbish atm, but it's not lack of talent.

Bizarrely, after yesterday, I still think this England team, playing well, are too much for Wales - which may well come back to bite me, but still.....

offload wrote:I would start Croft and play Robshaw and Wood at 7 and 8. I'd have Youngs at 9 and Farrell 10 if fit. I would play Telvetrees and Tuilagi in the centre and change both wings, keeping Goode at 15.If England make these changes they will win comfortably. As I'm Welsh I hope you ignore my advice and start the same team you did against Italy.

I would say keeping Goode at 15 is very helpful. Its hard to think of a fullback ever who is as poor a tackler as he is. The boy is a complete er.

Morgan ruled out

So what are you lads thoughts on the probable line up vs Wales...?

Launchbury and Parling went off with shoulder injuries so I guess you are waiting on their fitness tests, should they not make it who is likely cover, Lawes and who else?

Were Tom Youngs and Dan Cole injured? They both were substituted almost at the end of the match.

Will young Owen Farrell or Morgan be fit enough after missing the last few weeks?

Did Vunipula prove a better loosehead than Marler in your opinion?

Reading the above posts I guess after Care and Floods performance that a change of Halfbacks is likely, centres too maybe? Tuilagi was very quiet against what is certainly not regarded as a tough defence, maybe Twelvetrees to add a bit more flair as he did vs the Scots...?

sickofwendy wrote:Morgan ruled out

Could be significant. Absolute beast, even by 'English' standards. Hope it doesn't hamper him for long, but good news for Wales in meantime.

Id start twelvetrees And barritt in the centre because manu hasn't really been brilliant and barritt has been defensively solid and has carried the ball the most where twelvetrees offers something different skill level on the bloke is amazing

welshboii15 wrote:Id start twelvetrees And barritt in the centre because manu hasn't really been brilliant and barritt has been defensively solid and has carried the ball the most where twelvetrees offers something different skill level on the bloke is amazing

This. England's best performance undoubtedly came against Scotland, and probably the first half against Ireland (though the ten minutes without Haskell were excellent as well), both had the Twelvetrees/Barritt association. Tuilagi was very good against France, but not great at all yesterday, fumbling a lot of passes and generally not making the gains you'd expect. I think Twelvetrees will add something extra in the midfield, and despite having an ordinary game yesterday Barritt would still be one of my first names on the teamsheet.

Might sound wrong a welsh guy doing some changes for the English buy i just want see an exciting game and i think the most exciting the welsh have been was when gavin Henson was at his best because we could mix things up rather than be one dimensional and i think twelvetrees can do the same for the english

Tuilagi was still powering through people but a combination of bad passes and good Italian defense made sure he never made much ground. Garbage in garbage out....

He is still the player England have to play and still the most dangerous center in in the British isles. He's still scoring a try every other game and he has plenty of credit in the bank. If he doesnt get the opportunities to shine do you blame him or do you blame the guys inside.

The only real complaint is that I felt like screaming every time he got caught up in a ruck - as it meant that he wasnt where he was supposed to be and therefore wasnt going to be in position to take one of the non existing passes where he could do his thing.

Twelvetrees has to start, as mentioned our only good attacking play has come when he was on the field.

He also leads the defence for Glos and i'm sure he'll have practised in the EPS.

We're not going to out defend Wales, they've already shown they have the best D going, we need to get our attacking players on the field and out score them instead, and that'll mean tries.

screamingaddabs wrote:Marler
Youngs
Cole
Launchberry
Parling (if not injured)
Wood
Robshaw
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
an 11
Twelvetrees
Tuilagi
Ashton
Brown

Is your suggested team from earlier. Changing out Goode for Brown and bringing in 12T is actually quite a big change tactically. Yes 12T could do the distributing role Goode does atm, but you have lost your defensive captain in the backs and really changed how your back three operate, which in turn affects how people drop back to cover kicks etc. You have said AN Other at 11. Strettle? If not, then they haven't been in the core group and have a lot to catch up on.

Changing 8 and 9 I agree with. I thought Mako played well actually in the first half. I would be tempted to sub him earlier. Changing for Marler is ok though I guess.

Brown is a natural 15, moving him back to his first choice position shouldn't be a shock at all and to be honest can only be a good thing. Twelvetrees is a natural 12 so shouldn't have an issue coming in at 12, he's already shown the best all round skillset of any 12 England have played recently in one game alongside Farrel who may or may not be fit for the Wales game if not then he also spent years at Tigers alongside Flood and Manu, I really don't see what the issue would be with those two changes.

Mako did well but I just feel Marler is technically better then him and has more experience, I honestly wouldn't mind either starting though.

lostinwales wrote:Tuilagi was still powering through people but a combination of bad passes and good Italian defense made sure he never made much ground. Garbage in garbage out....

He is still the player England have to play and still the most dangerous center in in the British isles. He's still scoring a try every other game and he has plenty of credit in the bank. If he doesnt get the opportunities to shine do you blame him or do you blame the guys inside.

The only real complaint is that I felt like screaming every time he got caught up in a ruck - as it meant that he wasnt where he was supposed to be and therefore wasnt going to be in position to take one of the non existing passes where he could do his thing.

Tuilagi found that everytime he had the ball both the opposition centre's and some of the pack would be waiting for him due to England being lazy, I'm amazed he actually made the ground that he did.

If Morgan is out I'd be tempted to start Vunipola at 8 simply for his ball carrying. Having thought about the side I named last night I'd be very tempted to start Twelvetrees over Barritt as well - no point in me calling for pace on the wings if the ball doesn't get there!

king_carlos wrote:If Morgan is out I'd be tempted to start Vunipola at 8 simply for his ball carrying. Having thought about the side I named last night I'd be very tempted to start Twelvetrees over Barritt as well - no point in me calling for pace on the wings if the ball doesn't get there!

I am very surprised that Lancaster hasn't chosen Bill Vunipola for duty yet. I was hoping to see him have a chance on Sunday. When you see how well Toby Faletau has done for Wales, it is a surprise to not see a similar lad like Billy given a go?

Tbh I'm getting fed up with Morgan and his constant injury niggles - is he made out of balsa wood? And hasn't Vunipola been injured over the same period currently? - please God don't let him be made out of the same stuff. And why Wood to no 8 - it's a kind of double negative whammy: we lose a top class b/s and gain a very average no 8. Haskell played there in MJ's day, so he can damn well do it again.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Tbh I'm getting fed up with Morgan and his constant injury niggles - is he made out of balsa wood? And hasn't Vunipola been injured over the same period currently? - please God don't let him be made out of the same stuff. And why Wood to no 8 - it's a kind of double negative whammy: we lose a top class b/s and gain a very average no 8. Haskell played there in MJ's day, so he can damn well do it again.

Haskell seems to have lost stock recently.

I thought he was the obvious eight to choose and was surprised to see Wood there. Tom wood is a great blindside but doesnt seem to have impressed many of you as an eight.

I like what he has been doing as a backrower, but I agree he is not really comparable to eights like Heaslip, Faletau, Parisse, Picamoles or Beattie.

I think it is obvious to all that the balance of the back row is not right.As stated by previous poster's now that Morgan is out we need a ball carrier like billy v.ive always thought haskell plays his best for England at 7.would it be too much of a risk to play billy v at ms,is he a big game player because we can't afford any passengers.

sickofwendy wrote:I think it is obvious to all that the balance of the back row is not right.As stated by previous poster's now that Morgan is out we need a ball carrier like billy v.ive always thought haskell plays his best for England at 7.would it be too much of a risk to play billy v at ms,is he a big game player because we can't afford any passengers.

I thought Haskell was a good ball carrier, which is what most of you say you need maybe he would be best at 8 with Wood at 6?

haskell is quick so occasionally looks good carrying but doesnt do nearly enough of it to play 8.

i've watched billy v a few times and his power and pace could see him become a top class no. 8 but i've also seen him lose the ball in contact far too frequently so i dont think this is the right game to throw him in, bench option perhaps.

so i think we are stuck with wood for this game, the back row change that is likely in my mind is croft in for haskell.

HQ matt wrote:haskell is quick so occasionally looks good carrying but doesnt do nearly enough of it to play 8.

i've watched billy v a few times and his power and pace could see him become a top class no. 8 but i've also seen him lose the ball in contact far too frequently so i dont think this is the right game to throw him in, bench option perhaps.

so i think we are stuck with wood for this game, the back row change that is likely in my mind is croft in for haskell.

It was hard to judge whether Croft's impact was positive or negative, England were losing locks when he entered the game. I agree swapping him and Haskell might be a likely move considering how quickly Croft has moved from injury to International Bench.

Just noticed on BBC website, Launchbury, Parling and Lawes likely to be available. Would be helpful if that's the case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21745371

so predicted changes:
youngs for care
farrell for flood
croft for haskell

More than one Welsh poster advocating haskell at 8 even though most English know he no good controlling base of the scrum,I wonder why?

HQ matt wrote:so predicted changes:
youngs for care
farrell for flood
croft for haskell

I would be happy with that...
I would keep faith with Manu and Barritt too.

It's obvious that the back 3 has to change, and probably 10-12 too. Looking at our backs only Tuilagi is causing defences any problems (Brown does very well with what's put in front of him but hasn't created much otherwise)

However we would gain little by changing these positions now without giving people time to get used to combinations.

That in mind, I would make only one change.

Drop Haskell for B Vunipola.

We have really missed Morgan. Against Italy we had so little go forward in the pack that the backs were stuck going from side to side. It's a risk but Vunipola's stats suggest he is the big ball-carrier / offloader that we need to replicate Morgan's effect. And I think that change can be made without unsettling the balance too much. In fact you could argue there will be greater familiarity, as Wood won't be playing out of position.

I hope England stick with Brown and Ashton on either wing, Englands wings are quickly becoming farcical

Isn't Billy V still injured? Foot wasn't it?

He was training with the squad last week,hasn't played in a while.

Just feed him up on some red meat and let him loose

The only change you can hope for that will actually change your fortunes is a change in the health and well-being of the Wales squad. #suzy #norovirus #moneytalks

yappysnap wrote:Just feed him up on some red meat and let him loose

Wouldn't it be better to leave him hungry and let him loose on the mutton?

I like your thinking Aitchw...