Hook....Redundant at almost 28yrs old ?

I have watched james hook from 15yrs old. he always showed flair and potential,
and was an exiting player in the 7's and youth rugby.

We all thought he would stop making blind alley breaks , getting isolated, getting turned over, etc as he developed. At that time his brother Michael Hook , was thought of as a better player and went to play for Newport, but in stature was always considered small.

Sadly, although james was with the Ospreys and had 60plus caps, he still had things in his game that good coaching should have ironed out , and areas that could have been further developed.

Now, its as if national coaches are happy for him to keep things that have hindered him becoming a world class 10, just so they could " add a bit of magic " when the "real players " have won the game.

He was a great kid to be around, and I saw that kid again when he gave that flick pass on Saturday that could have resulted in a try for England. And that is my point.

He should not be doing that still 12 yrs on from when his potential was first recognized as something special. Sad really, will so little international time now have a say in his future contracts ? Should he walk away from international availability ?

For all he's offered Wales as a player, he's always stumbled into a grey patch of playing poorly, sometimes dreadfully, that has re-omitted him from favour. You might slate the idiocy of Lyn Jones, Sean Holley and Gareth Jenkins in messing him around so much positionally for Wales and the O's but, whether it's entirely his fault or not, Hook has never been consistent. That has been his undoing. He can look fantastic one minute, distinctly average the next.

He's a classic case of the player with potential never quite making it. I really like him and think he is a skillful player who has been unlucky when selected because of being used as a utility back when he needed to make 1 position his own. Has it just been taken out of his hands or is he genuinely no more than that? Think he could have been a really good 10 with the right coaching.

maybe the coaches tried and failed.

haircut you seem to have known hook from way back, and to be honest how many players have we seen who follow the same path, keeping those things in their game that no-one has helped them to either eradicate or develop further.

on reflection, and i've been a hook critic out of frustration probably, maybe the coaches didnt do enough to address his talents , so they got someone else who fitted their bill.

interesting question haircut, should he walk? moneys good even on the bench.

The Welsh Toby flood.

aitchw wrote:He's a classic case of the player with potential never quite making it. I really like him and think he is a skillful player who has been unlucky when selected because of being used as a utility back when he needed to make 1 position his own. Has it just been taken out of his hands or is he genuinely no more than that? Think he could have been a really good 10 with the right coaching.

I think its more that he's the classic case of a player with talent but no specialism. In many was he remind me of Chris Patterson. Undoubtedly very talented but not strong enough in any position to keep his place. Personally I think he's pretty lucky to even be on the bench at the moment.

Oh he's a lot older than 28.

Hook is turning out to be the next Gavin Henson of Welsh fly-half/centre hybrid failures.

You can never mix hook with Henson to different players. Hook still has a chance to be great, his problem is that he's a class act where ever he plays, he's so good and the welsh coaches know that, just James is lacking form in one position. In my opinion James would be better off come back to Wales playing for the blues which means the welsh coaches see more and we get hooky back at his best

Sad but true, squad player now done, thanks very much. A combination of incosnsistency and being too flexible in his skill set so he became a utility back, more useful on the bench. Comparable with Ryan who has excelled as a supersub to the extent he started getting picked on merit.

Have a think hook might not start for wales or might be on a bad run of form but he's so important they can't leave him out of the match day team, one game he could come on and totally take a team apart or he will throw a long pass that could lead to the other sude scoring but one thing you can say about hook is how talented he is and what he's willing to do for his country I would be shocked if he played scrum half and did amazing at it that's the kind of player he is

secretfly, haircut is correct, hook is indeed nearly 28, his birthday is in june.

anyone know, has he got 2 more seasons on his contract? if so how will his lack of international appearances count against his market value at 30?

or have we talked the hook conundrum to death too many times already? probably.

Is it about his skillset? He seems to be out on a limb and the shadow of the WC doesn't help. When he came back from NZ the criticism was vitriolic yet a year later and he's still here. Obviously the long sad adventure with Priestland didn't help. Working in France and shining for Wales can be difficult Geth and Phillips have had issues. It must be hard not being part of the group not part of the beating heart that is Wales, being so peripheral. I wonder what the point is throwing him on for the last five or ten minutes. FFS if Biggar was crocked before half time they'd have to to turn to Hook who has been on starvation rations of game time for ever, to boss the game. Doesn't make sense. Better for him if he did walk away. If he did have a future for Wales they'd seek him out. Or if he was really serious come back to Wales and show what he's made of in the Rabo.

Patchell and Biggar are the future - Hook is a mercurial talent there is no doubt, however the game has moved on and there is little room for mercurial talent these days. It's about power and control and low risk - He remains a classy player

Ask Perpignan if Hook is redundant? They are only 3 points from the playoff zone.

Hook is a genius player and has got Wales out of jail on many occasions. He's made mistakes in the past just like any other player has.

Try not to dwell on what HE has done to not get selected and think about what other players are doing to keep him out.

Wales have excellent talent and strength in the backs and that is why a class in form Lee Byrne and James Hook can't even get a start for Wales.

Consistency is a vital componant at the top level - Hook doesn't have it. Many of us saw him as the next Welsh ten when Jones was still getting picked ahead of him but he has not shown the required consistency.

He can play FB and centre, but not as well as others in that position. Competent in a number of positions but not a master of any.

He has become the super-sub, brought on when things are usually not going well in the hope that he will provide a bit a magic (rather than a costly error). Perhaps it's unfortunate, but imo Hook's time has largely past.

Young Dan Biggar has set the bar pretty high in the last few games. Looks very comfortable in the ten shirt.

Hook needs to play in Wales to get noticed. He has been in great form for USAP, really good.

We are lucky to have such great competition for places and a sub who has so much experience who can change the tactical aptitude of a game.

England in their glory days used Mike Catt in a very similar way. Seems to me like Hook is a vital cog in our wheel.

Biggar for lions.

Hook is nothing like Henson, from what I have seen Hook is a very decent level headed honest type bloke - complete opposite to Henson who threw it all away on the celebrity fame attahced to him.

Definitely Biggar, he has proved himself a worthy challenger of Sexton.


Hook to go too, he will be very useful down there...!

If you play Hook 10 minutes at the end of a game, what do you really expect from him? he came in against England with the pressure to perform as well as his teammates have done before so he tried a risky pass to show himself a bit.
the conditions have never really been set for him to perform properly for Wales so give the guy a break
for what it's worth he has been quite consistent with Perpignan once he's been building confindence.

maestegmafia wrote:Hook to go too, he will be very useful down there...!

I'll be amazed if he travels - not a chance.

offload wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Hook to go too, he will be very useful down there...!

I'll be amazed if he travels - not a chance.

There isnt anyone who can cover what he does

Most players who play with Hook believe he has true talent, I think I remember Priestland remarking at how skillful he was during training.

The problem is, as stated, he never got a chance to develop fully, but then again where is his best position? For me he is probably a 12, where he can put people in space, be a 2nd kicking option if necessary and have the preassure of dictating the match taken off him

IronMike wrote:Most players who play with Hook believe he has true talent, I think I remember Priestland remarking at how skillful he was during training.

The problem is, as stated, he never got a chance to develop fully, but then again where is his best position? For me he is probably a 12, where he can put people in space, be a 2nd kicking option if necessary and have the preassure of dictating the match taken off him

World Class goal kicker too. That is a hell of a player to have on the bench. As I said previously Wales are being clever, imitating the England 03 sides use of Mike Catt by having a bench player who can kick goals and has plenty of international experience in several positions.

Hook is the Mattew Tait of Wales. He's played at fullback, flyhalf and inside centre but never for any great length of time and usually nothing related to what has his club rugby position has been. He is the classic example of trying to force a player into being a jack of all trades only making him end up being a jack of no trades. He's like an alternative to the Shining:

All positions and no play makes Hook a dull boy. If you're going to reinvent somebody as a player then you need to persist in that selection. Countries who use the central contract system can also tell their club coaches where you would like to see a player played at. Jane and Dagg for example have played the other's test positions at club level but they have said and the NZ coach as well that they prefer to see them playing in their test positions. Hook doesn't have that luxury and so his selection can only be based on conjecture rather than solid evidence.

Shame as I see Hook as a more distributing inside centre than Jamie Roberts. Wales needs a more creative inside centre to bring Halfpenny more into the game.

I think people have unrealistic expectations.

Truly complete players are once in a lifetime type of guys like Dan Carter.

I think that for a 27 year old he has had a truly amazing career:

- 70 Welsh Caps
- British and Irish Lions Tour 2009
- Six Nations Champion in 2008, 2012, 2013

I can see him in the Lions Tour this year. Covers so many positions and vastly experienced.

Isn't going to be the greatest player of all time but is hardly redundant.

welshboii15 wrote:James would be better off come back to Wales playing for the blues which means the welsh coaches see more and we get hooky back at his best

Unless he wants to play 12 for a reduced salary, I don't think we want him at the Blues i'm afraid.

Patchell and Biggar will be fighting for the Welsh 10 shirt for the next two WCs in my opinion.

Can't wait to see what Patchell can do in red with some actual talent in the centres with him.

maestegmafia wrote:

offload wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Hook to go too, he will be very useful down there...!

I'll be amazed if he travels - not a chance.

There isnt anyone who can cover what he does

Matt Scott is a very useful 10, covers 12 and 13.......... I would say has better form than Hook
Scott Williams has covered 10, 12, 13 for Wales....... is a more destructive runner than Hook

flyhalffactory wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

offload wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Hook to go too, he will be very useful down there...!

I'll be amazed if he travels - not a chance.

There isnt anyone who can cover what he does

Matt Scott is a very useful 10, covers 12 and 13.......... I would say has better form than Hook
Scott Williams has covered 10, 12, 13 for Wales....... is a more destructive runner than Hook

I didnt know Matt Scott had covered at ten. I saw Williams cover during the warm up games. Did a good job.

The advantage with hook is that he has actually played numerous tests at 10, 12, 13 and 15 and has been a top international player for 8 years, winning plenty of games for Wales with his contribution in any of those positions. He is also a world class goal kicker.

Like i said, England in 03 were very clever in having Mike Catt on the bench, same goes for Wales and likely the lions

didnt think i'd read so many posts on hook,again!

'whocares' summed it up in less than a dozen words he said about hook when he came on against england ' he tried a risky pass to show himself a bit'

what about your team mates hooky, worked their b*lls off to keep a no try result in tact. that pass has done him more harm than good.

blues wont want him at 10 for sure, wonder if dan biggar goes away they'll have him back at OS ?

Yea he did that pass but if it came off people be licking his back side again its just one of them 50/50 things could work or could not

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Hook is the Mattew Tait of Wales. He's played at fullback, flyhalf and inside centre but never for any great length of time and usually nothing related to what has his club rugby position has been. He is the classic example of trying to force a player into being a jack of all trades only making him end up being a jack of no trades. He's like an alternative to the Shining:

All positions and no play makes Hook a dull boy. If you're going to reinvent somebody as a player then you need to persist in that selection. Countries who use the central contract system can also tell their club coaches where you would like to see a player played at. Jane and Dagg for example have played the other's test positions at club level but they have said and the NZ coach as well that they prefer to see them playing in their test positions. Hook doesn't have that luxury and so his selection can only be based on conjecture rather than solid evidence.

Shame as I see Hook as a more distributing inside centre than Jamie Roberts. Wales needs a more creative inside centre to bring Halfpenny more into the game.

Speaking of 1/2p, did anybody else notice him hitting the line very early on against England?

Think some of the comments above sum it up. He was never good enough at certain skills to be a 10 certainly not an international 10. Great running game, good hand off and offload out of the tackle. Unfortunately his out of hand kicking game is very weak and you can't get away with being a good 10, certainly at international level without a good tactical kicking game. There will always be times when running or using the backline isn't an option and you have to put boot to ball. Aside from that he is prone to making really silly decisions and to be a top 10 that does that you have to sublime most of the time to get away with it.

reading all the above now , makes you wonder why the welsh press (wmail)
had persisted so long in pushing hook forward and slagging sjones, when supporters from other home nations and beyond rated sjones so highly.

says more for the welsh psyche towards a 10 fitting what they want to see rather than whats needed in a changing game.

Dontheman, yes 1/2p was in the mix early, and Dan Biggar made less tackles than in previous games. one game dan was 4th highest tackler. So good tactic and dans kicking was mostly from in space, field positioning behind for him worked better in this game.

homework behind the scenes on the english and on our game tactics was superb.