New Zealand vs England - Third Test

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Are we going to get a result? With decent weather, I think we will, and dare I say it to England.

The only change I can see is Bracewell coming in for the Kiwi's, although there was talk of England playing five bowlers, which I would be surprised at.

Broad is the only England bowler who has looked anything near his best, but with Jimmy who needs five wickets for 300, and Finn, who will hopefully pitch the ball up, things should improve.

I don't think the pitch is as flat as it seemed at first. but it shouldn't be this much of a struggle. though in our top 6 we have 3 unproven test players really.

Guildford, I understand where you are coming from but there is a danger of scoring too slowly; even in this situation. Prior and Root still need to rotate the strike and take sensible runs when they are on offer. Touch wood they make it to lunch unscathed then they need to up the rate after lunch. I'm not advocating huge risks, but if they just block back maiden after maiden from Martin then they are inviting pressure and all that will cause is a rash shot and a dismissal.

they had to try and make sure another wicket did not fall initially. then started to play for lunch. I will hope they push a bit more after lunch. but do I stay up.....??!!!

Can't imagine Prior continuing at this glacial pace for too long. But obviously the first priority at 72/5 was to stop the rot and bat for a few overs.
Get settled after lunch and I reckon you'll see some shots.

JD - I also understand where you're coming from. At least Root and Prior have now taken us to lunch without further damage.

I accept they were ultra defensive, probably too much. However, to their credit, they didn't panic and try to retrieve the situation with a fatal rash shot. Hopefully they'll now go on and up the rate well into the afternoon session. The essenrtial thing is that they are still there and have the opportunity to do so.

A few additional points -

1. Having seen Pietersen score a double ton in a county match at the small Guildford ground last season, I'm sure he would have adored the small boundaries here.

2. Very impressed by McCullum's captaincy. Seems a man who knows his side and his own mind.

3. Carrot suggested we went into this Test with an over confident manner. If we did, I'm very surprised. This is the third match of the series - we've seen more than enough over the last two Tests to already know that New Zealand are anything but a pub side! Also, some of our players are playing for Ashes places if not their Test careers.

I do partially agree; I lost track of time with it being in NZ and didn't realise how close to lunch it was. That makes their batting more acceptable but I do feel that they still scored slightly too slowly. To their credit, they are still there and haven't thrown it away which is something, but there is only so long that they can continue this way. Now they've made it to lunch they will have a chance to re group with Flower and work out how they are going to go about resurrecting this innings this afternoon and I do expect a different attitude after lunch.

I perhaps even think England have gone the other way, rather than being over confident you've got people like Compton, Root, Bairstow and even Finn and Broad playing for their place and perhaps that has contributed to their pressurised performances. Who knows. Or maybe they've just played badly. I suspect it is mostly just playing badly.

Be a good time for Broad to find his form with the bat...

JD - yes, we need to assess over lunch and regroup for the afternoon session involving some sensible aggression.

I agree with you that too many individuals have played badly so far in this Test. You can probably add Panesar's name to your list. Whilst Martin is probably a bit of a journeyman bowler as suggested by Carrot, he's at least varied his flight and pace. Panesar has seemed pretty robotic in comparison.

Woo! 100 up!

Panesar's been pants all series. Not stepped up in the absence of Swann

Prior dropped by Brownlie at slip.

Could that be a turning point?

Over 65 of the innings and finally some intent shown towards Martin. It only takes two shots and McCullum will be forced to put a man out and there is your single. That drop could prove to be very crucial though because if Broad had come in then I couldn't see us avoiding the follow on...

I like Joe Root, but this is becoming painful. He just can't seem to get the ball off the square at the moment. He is digging in though to be fair...

50 for Matty P. Another good knock.

Finally putting some pressure on Martin as well!

A boundary for Root! He'll be incredibly frustrated if he doesn't go big here after all the work he has put in.

yes!

Oh Matthew. After you'd played so well as well. Broad has 9 Test fifties?! Bloody hell. I'm not backing him against the new ball though...

oh dear...6 then out...

Rutherford gone, first wicket by broad.

Yeah I'd have preferred a follow on if only for momentum purposes. Wickets were falling and even though it was the tail one or two at the top before close would have put England under massive pressure.

Understand the reasons for batting first but I hate giving away the momentum like that. If the wickets continue thhen England come back into this match faster than if they had followed on.

There you go, wickets...i.e.- momentum for bowlers, is continuing. 2 down. We have an ability to extract defeat from the jaws of victory like no one else.

Commentators say 'all of a sudden batting looks tough'? Wickets have been falling all afternoon!

Willimson played on, supeb delivery by Jimmy, England putting all their effort, I hope a result here.

so do I...

I think Taylor if NZ batsman will go with straight bat leaving all the outside delivery than they will surely put england down. A 150 will also do for NZ, because chasing 380 will surely put England under pressure and relying on the condition I predict a series win for NZ. But again we should not forget Eng batting has depth. It is going to be interesting.

Wicket are falling, superb delivery and taylor gone. NZ in trouble. Go with straight man don't play cross. NZ 247/3

Sometimes our cricketers are amongst the dumbest people on earth...3 down. And a wasted review to boot, asking for it but not waiting for it. First the no follow on, now 3 wickets and a wasted review...WE SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED ON.

NZ completely negated the effect of the momentum switch instead thinking a 5th day crumbling wicket would be more of a factor. Commentators also all ruled out a follow on. Now we probably wont see the fifth day if this carries on.

Taylorman wrote:Sometimes our cricketers are amongst the dumbest people on earth...3 down. And a wasted review to boot, asking for it but not waiting for it. First the no follow on, now 3 wickets and a wasted review...WE SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED ON.

NZ completely negated the effect of the momentum switch instead thinking a 5th day crumbling wicket would be more of a factor. Commentators also all ruled out a follow on. Now we probably wont see the fifth day if this carries on.

I think not giving follow on is a good decision because batting on day 4 or 5 batting will be a difficult task and looking on the condition here on day 3 a 100 run,target for NZ might have created the risk so I prefer it as a right decision.

Perhaps. Its just we have thrown so many tests away in positions like this so it is part paranoia setting in. I actually expected early wickets for that reason, and they came.

Often we have gone from a near 80-90% likelihood of winning, to losing a test. always through a top order batting collapse.

May be taylor but I think the way wicket is behaving, a target close to 400 will surely put a big pressure on England. With kevin peterson not in the side England's middle order seems little weak. Though Root and Prior batted well in the first inning but batting under pressure us very difficult and root is quite young.

NZ have passed the last session with no more loss. 35/3 (23)

The wicket seems to offer alot more life tbh. Even if we can get them out for 100 it probally means its going to be close to impossible to get the runs..

But i still think we can give it a go

I would have deffo followed on if I was NZ btw

I wonder if the weather forecast for rain on the final day influenced McCullum's decision. I find it difficult to understand why, if presented with the follow on, you don't enforce it. Was McCullum thinking a final day with showers might provide some cloud cover to get some seam movement? Personally with the sun and the swing I think NZ bowled well enough to enforce the follow on. I can only think McCullum thought his bowlers might tire if asked to bowl again and getting some runs and then putting in England with pressure on the scoreboard was their best chance of securing a win and the series. It may well be a decision he may rue but in saying that I think on the whole he's gone in with the right attitude and he must feel that NZ have a great chance of getting a win. The key thing is how many runs NZ gets and how quickly they can score them. If showers are forecast for the final day then England needs to be put into bat after lunch to at least get a session to get some wickets and apply the pressure for the final day.

Whatever he was thinking, it's clear that the 4th day is going to be an enthralling day of cricket. I think this final test should get a result either way. Advantage to NZ but England could quickly seize back control if NZ don¡t score enough runs. A quick-fire 150 for NZ would be ideal. Less than 100 would be ideal for England. Like this whole series I think somewhere in the middle will be the final result. Just in whose side's favour remains unclear.

As I said yesterday, getting bowled out today has given England an opening. But I would say they need at least 80-100 runs than what the managed eventually in their first innings. New Zealand have set about the process of a top order collapse, but there is a mini recovery as Peter Fulton and Dean Brownlie have taken them from 8-3 to 35=-3. England would need to take the remaining wickets pretty quickly. If NZ score more than 150 in their 2nd innings, it will be very difficult for a Pietersenless England to even contemplate going for the win.
New Zealand need another 150 runs to make their position absolutely safe, that would mean they are a head by more than 425 runs, and it would be very much difficult for England to reach that total even if they bat a lot better in the last innings. The ball has swung for the NZ seamers, so any chase of 250 and above will be difficult. England are already in a corner, they need to come up with something absolutely spectacular. Bowling NZ out for less than 125 could be a starter.

the bowlers just need to stay calm tomorrow and the wickets will fall....i still think that chasing 400 with a day and a half to go is do able if we can bowl them out tomorrow morning.

Msp is spot on that England will need to bowl, field and bat extremely well in the remaining two days of this Test if they still harbour genuine hopes of a win.

I would emphasise that the need for excellent fieding should not be overlooked. Runs have to be kept down whilst every chance presented must be taken.

Even with 3 New Zealand second innings wickets in the bag, we are still clearly in a lot of trouble. I reiterate that too much damage stems from day one when we chose to bowl. We took just one wicket that day. In contrast, eleven wickets fell on day two and the same number again on day three.

Interesting point and concern raised by Taylorman and Kiakaha about McCullum choosing not to enforce the follow on.

As a general point, I normally like to see the follow on enforced whenever it can be. I feel it maintains the bowlers' momentum and keeps the pressure on the batsmen.

That said, it does depend on how much the bowlers have left in them for the day. With the emphasis these days on only four front line bowlers, the tiredness factor probably comes more into consideration. Maybe that influenced McCullum who, in my view, has led splendidly.

Some of the SKY pundits were suggesting that McCullum's decision was due to him wanting Martin to bowl at England on a day five track. I'm not sold on that argument. Given experience in this series and Test to date, I wouldn't expect a massive pitch deterioration between now and the fifth day. Furthermore, Martin appears to owe a fair bit of his (deserved) success to changes in flight and pace rather than great spin and the state of the wicket.

Anyway, a much more interesting state of affairs than many thought possible after day one. I suspect a lot of flak will be coming Cook and England's way. Whilst that will probably be pretty fair and understandable, I hope it's not overlooked just how extremely well McCullum and New Zealand have done.

I can't believe New Zealand didn't make England follow on.

Now England have time to go away and look at what went wrong, and come back with maybe a new plan of playing the NZ attack.

Should have taken advantage of there bowlers being on top. The most we'd have been ahead (probably) would be 100 odd runs, surely they must be confident enough to chase down a poultry total

Strange one from McCullum imo, who has been pretty spot on all series

Enforcing the follow-on was a tricky choice for McCullum.
The New Zealand bowling attack has been stretched throughout the series, and McCullum may not have liked to risk it with his bowlers. Again, had England posted a decent total 2nd time round, the pressure would be on New Zealand in the last innings. Now even after having lost 3 early wickets in the 2nd innings, NZ are ahead by 274 runs. and even another 75-100 runs would put England under serious pressure.
So all in all, I would say a fair enough call from the New Zealand skipper.

New Zealand should have enforced the follow-on after another poor effort with the bat by England. No surrender though, if England are chasing 400 or less, I'd back them to do it. They never bat as badly second time around!

So everyone has got it wrong

Cook was clearly crazy to send NZ in ( I think there is now a fair bit of evidence that he was at best guilty of a serious misjudgment )

B Mc has made a mistake in not enforcing the follow on ...yet to be proven , but surely he doesn't see Martin's spin as his main weapon ?

Most of the "experts" here and in other places have been all over the place in their assessments of the pitch ... is anyone who has been actually watching the match confident in an opinion as to how it will behave over the last two days ?

Haven't seen a ball ( well a few highlights in a pub this afternoon ) but from the way the game has gone I'd hazard a guess that (a) the pitch is basically good and will remain so (b) when the ball swings both sides are a bit vulnerable and (c) if NZ are dismissed with less than 380 as a lead England have a real chance of chasing it...if I had to bet though I'd expect NZ to push their lead over 400 and England to either save a draw (if Cook and Trott bat well) or collapse and lose it.

Then again it will probably rain anyway

alfie wrote:So everyone has got it wrong

Alfie - I take it you haven't seen my end of day one posts with Mike. A Test within a Test.

Give Finn the ball

Very disappointing crowd by the look of things. You normally see more at the Guildford Festival - and that's just in the beer tent!

Oh Jimmy those are the ones that have just gotta stick today!

BOOM! THERE IS HOPE!

'Two Metre' Peter looking well set and starting to accelerate. Just wonder if he might have thoughts of a second hundred in the match before the declaration ....

I think we can still do it, if Monty cuts out that horrific piece of bowling!

Just need a wicket or 2 before lunch me thinks!

God our quicks have bowled some pies this morning

New Zealand 113-4, leading by 352.Reckon they'll want about 80 more before declaring. Our bowling them out before that doesn't look likely at the moment. We're also struggling to contain the run rate. Not promising ....

I think they will want 100 - 150 more personally.

'Two metre' Peter is taking a liking to Monty