Malaysian GP Thread Containing Practice/Qualifying/Race Spoilers

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :



Following Kimi Raikkonen’s victory at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix, the 2013 Formula One championship fires up again this weekend as the series prepares for round two, the Malaysian Grand Prix.

And fiery is perhaps the appropriate adjective for this race. High temperatures are the order of the day at Sepang Circuit and this race is a true test of man and machine.

For the drivers there’s the struggle to cope with soaring in-car temperatures and the battle to stay hydrated throughout the 56-lap long race. For the machinery this weekend is about dealing with tough conditions for engines and tyres. The heat and Sepang’s abrasive track surface makes tyre wear a major consideration, while a number of high-speed corners places the tyres under severe lateral loads. Keeping rubber ‘alive’ here is a difficult task.

In terms of engines, the heat and the fact that a significant part of the lap here is run at full throttle means powerplants are heavily stressed. Maximising cooling is imperative and teams often open supplementary cooling vents in bodywork to facilitate this.

And then there’s the rain. Heavy downpours are a frequent occurrence and the possibility of torrential rain adds an extra air of unpredictability to the season’s second race.

The 2012 race was a case in point. The race started wet and as the rain intensified running was suspended on lap nine. When the action resumed it was Fernando Alonso who took the lead. In a dramatic final third, the Ferrari driver was chased to the chequered flag by Sergio Perez. The Mexican was unable to pass, but claimed his first podium finish with second place, ahead of Lewis Hamilton.

Punishing conditions, an exciting circuit layout and unpredictable weather conditions mean a grand prix at Sepang is rarely dull and this weekend should be no exception.
Malaysian Grand Prix Data


Circuit: Sepang
Length of lap: 5.543 km
Lap record: 1:34.223 (Juan-Pablo Montoya, Williams-BMW, 2004)
Total number of race laps: 56
Total race distance: 310.408km
Pitlane speed limits: 60km/h during practice and qualifying; 100km/h during race
DRS Zones: The DRS sectors will be between turns 15 and 1 (pit straight, as last year) and then between turns 14 and 15 (back straight). There will be a detection point for each DRS sector.

Malaysian Grand Prix Facts


This will be the 15th running of the Malaysian Grand Prix. The race made its Formula One calendar debut on October 17th, 1999.
In the first two years of its existence the race was staged at the end of the season. However, in 2001 it moved to March and had held an early-season slot ever since.
In the 14 events to date, the driver in pole position has gone on to win the race on seven occasions. The first winner from pole was Michael Schumacher in 2000 and the most recent Sebastian Vettel in 2011.
Last year’s winner Fernando Alonso started the race from eighth on the grid, the furthest back a winner has started in the history of the race. Kimi Raikkonen won the 2003 event from seventh position.
Ferrari is the most successful constructor at the Malaysian GP with six wins. Eddie Irvine won the inaugural event for the Scuderia, Michael Schumacher won the next three grands prix at Sepang, Raikkonen was victorious in 2008 and Alonso won last year.
Alonso has won the Malaysian Grand Prix with three different teams – Renault in 2005, McLaren in 2007 and Ferrari last year.
Of the drivers racing this weekend McLaren’s Jenson Button has the most Sepang starts. The Briton has raced 13 Malaysian Grands Prix and only missed out on the 1999 event as he was busy racing in F3 that year.
Sergio Perez’s second place last year for Sauber was the first time a Mexican driver had appeared on the podium since Pedro Rodriguez finished second in the 1971 Dutch Grand Prix for BRM – 19 years before Perez was born.
While this will be the first Malaysian Grand Prix for new boys Valtteri Bottas, Jules Bianchi, Max Chilton Giedo van der Garde and Esteban Gutierrez, only Bianchi has never appeared on the Sepang track before. Bottas made his Formula One weekend debut here last year in a Friday practice session for Williams. Sauber’s Gutierrez raced here for ART Lotus in GP2 last season, finishing seventh in the feature race and second in the sprint race. Caterham’s Van der Garde first raced here in GP2 Asia in 2009 with iSport and last year returned with Caterham Racing to finish fourth in the sprint race and Marussia’s Chilton finished third in last year’s GP2 feature race.
The 2012 GP was a good race for one of last year’s rookies. Toro Rosso’s Jean-Eric Vergne took his first Formula One championship points with an eighth-place finish.
This will be Fernando Alonso’s 200th grand prix. He made his debut at the 2001 Australian Grand Prix for Minardi and since then has scored 30 wins, 22 pole positions, 57 other podium finishes and, of course, two Formula One Drivers’ Championship titles, in 2005 and 2006, both for Renault.
Pirelli is bringing its Hard and Medium compounds to this race.

Source: RaceDepartment.com
Weather Forecast: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/1735161?day=2
All 3 days are Thundery Showers mixed in with heavy rain

[dyrewolfe]

People keep saying that Webber wasn't expecting Vettel to race, but when Vettel was all over the back of him and side by side going round several corners, it sure looked like racing to me. Webber was fighting to stay ahead. Also, if Webber was fastest, why didn't he get the car "dialled- up" again to race Vettel back?

Probably because he wasn't expecting Seb to totally disregard team orders and that he would back off eventually.

Webber was following team orders and was probably trying to hold Vettel off without jeopardising his car. Once he realised Seb was happy to risk taking them both out he had the good sense to yield.

As others have said, Vettel has benefitted from team orders on plenty of occasions and Webber (wrongly) figured Vettel might just have the good grace to do him a favour in return. Evidently he didn't realise just how much of a "baby Schumi" his team mate is.


If team orders hadn't come into play and Webber had been allowed to keep pushing, from when he had about a 5 second gap to Vettel, theres a fair chance none of this would have happened.

[GSC]

I am not saying he is a cheat - just someone without any moral scruples obviously.

Oh really Craig, the guy is a winner. You want Marquis of Queensbury too?

As for morals, he won a race, he didn't hurt anyone / screw their wife / steal their stuff. It's just more of the same Vettel hating.

He's not called baby Scumi for nothing.

Thank you.

Yes Vettel did something naughty. On such decisions are Championships won and lost ultimately

[CaledonianCraig]

And obviously Vettel knows he has done wrong with an apology to Webber post-race. If I were Webber I'd tell them to stuff team orders from now on as it seems they are one directional at Red Bull. As for the apology - sorry Seb that won't wash. If he honestly regretted his move he had around a dozen laps that he could have pulled over to allow Webber back through but he didn't. Me thinks the apology was forced out of him by Red Bull to try to cool the issue.

[dyrewolfe]

And obviously Vettel knows he has done wrong with an apology to Webber post-race. If I were Webber I'd tell them to stuff team orders from now on as it seems they are one directional at Red Bull. As for the apology - sorry Seb that won't wash. If he honestly regretted his move he had around a dozen laps that he could have pulled over to allow Webber back through but he didn't. Me thinks the apology was forced out of him by Red Bull to try to cool the issue.

Think it was a bit less than that - more like 5-6 laps. Other than that can't argue with you.

The only good thing about this whole sorry business is that we got to see a cracking few laps of duelling, wheel-to-whel racing. If nothing else, it proves Mark Webber can race against the best, given the opportunity.

I know it won't happen but I'd love for him to say "screw team orders", next time he's in a position to take points off Vettel.

[CaledonianCraig]

No dyrewolfe Vettel passed Webber with 13 laps left to race. Hmmm that is about 20 minutes of thinking time in which he could have pulled over if he was truly sorry but he didn't. In short Vettel ignored team orders and took race win from his team-mate who helped him to wins in recent years by following team orders. Not good Seb, not good at all.

[bogbrush]

Of course Vettel doesn't regret it. The apology is PR. so what? Does Alonso apologise for having Massa in his pocket every race?

[GSC]

Does Hamilton really feel bad that mercedes gave him 3rd?

[bogbrush]

I am not saying he is a cheat - just someone without any moral scruples obviously.

Oh really Craig, the guy is a winner. You want Marquis of Queensbury too?

As for morals, he won a race, he didn't hurt anyone / screw their wife / steal their stuff. It's just more of the same Vettel hating.

He's not called baby Scumi for nothing.

He won a race - correct. He won many races in the last few years with aid of team orders which no doubt was fine by him and his supporters which I wouldn't have a problem with. However, when he totally disregards the same team orders and kicks a team mate in the proverbial goolies who has helped him in the past I am sorry but however you want to look at it it is wrong.

Please list the 'many races' team orders have won him.

I don't think they exist in reality.

I doubt Webber was a big help in Brazil last year; they pitted him for a good reason you know.

[AlciG]

Does Hamilton really feel bad that mercedes gave him 3rd?

Judging by the way he looked on the podium it seemed sincere, but can't look in his heart.

[CaledonianCraig]

Look you say there aren't Marquis of Queensberry rules in this but there are - Red Bull team orders. In short Vettel wants to play by their rules when it suits him but when it doesn't he won't. Sorry but that just is not on. If he truly feels bad now about today's incident then perhaps he should be asking the team to scrap all team orders as he wants no part of it. No doubting he won't do that and has no intention of following team orders if they do not result in his benefitting. Morally wrong. That is my last say on the matter. For incidents Webber has played the team game the F1 channel tapped into it.

[GSC]

And Webber is the #2 driver. At this point in his career, a nice paycheck as a #2 in the best car or a decent paycheck in an uncompetitive car. He signed up to get the raw end of the deal.

Vettel might've been naughty but its that kind of stubborness that sees him a 3 time WC

[monty junior]

It's just a decent excuse for the constant beating Vettel gives him to be honest. Like Barrichello at Ferrari for years Webber has the odd weekend where he has the edge but spends much of the years well off his teammate. Frankly Webber will never win the WC because his teamate and a few others are just simply better and not because of team orders. If he loses the championship by less than 7 points then he'll rightly be furious but i highly doubt he'll be that close, as he has been over 100 points off his teamamte the last couple of seasons.

[Guest]

@critical_mass - good to have you back mate.

Vettel's image is really being hurt now, complete contrast to that of Rosberg and Hamilton's since he's joined Mercedes. The clone of Schumacher showed his ruthless side once again, completely disobeying team orders or Multi-21 and taking all 25 points that takes him to the top of the WDC. That apology absolutely stinks, I know it, you know it and more importantly Webber knows it. No respect shown towards Webber at all from Vettel and more and more we're getting to witness this out-of-control, cry baby, who has become more and more aggressive and wild in his radio communication because of the very fact that his usual 'total control' and 'domination' of F1 races has gone.

I think enough has been said on the matter, however this is surely going to see Mark respond and hopefully we get to see a more risk taking, aggressive and determined Mark Webber for the rest of the season with more consistancy. The Mercedes situation was pretty clear cut for me. Hamilton was always ahead of Rosberg all day and the team's mis-calculation impeded their drivers or in particular Hamilton, therefore why should he be punished for that fact? If Rosberg was so quick, why did he not put pressure on Hamilton in the earlier stints or make his two overtaking moves on Hamilton in the DRS zones stick. Hamilton easily moved back into third position and the team made an intelligent decision to stop the squabbling of position and to bring the cars home. The fact it was the main sponsors (Petronas) home race was probably also a factor and there was no need for undue attention on two Mercedes drivers taking each other out and embarrasing themselves.

Overview - Force India had a day to forget, Hulkenberg showed his quality, Lotus's struggled in those changeable conditions, McLaren showed improvement and I'm sure they will be challenging by Barcelona.
Alonso/Ferrari - driver and team mistake & Williams were nowhere.

Great day of motorsport, full of excitement and discussion. Great result for Hamilton and this consistency in performance has bought about a strong start. Who knows what's achievable this season? Bring on China.

[monty junior]

Probably because Nico had already saved his fuel earlier in the race where as Hamilton used it by chasing the Redbulls, not that there's anything wrong with that but the feeling i got yesterday and today was Rosberg was quicker in the dry but Hamilton did a better job in Q3. He'll feel rightly aggrieved not to have been let past, i think he could have pushed for second. Good result for Mercedes though, much improved though again a race effected by rain. I don't think we'll know where everyones really at for a few races.

[bogbrush]

Look you say there aren't Marquis of Queensberry rules in this but there are - Red Bull team orders. In short Vettel wants to play by their rules when it suits him but when it doesn't he won't. Sorry but that just is not on. If he truly feels bad now about today's incident then perhaps he should be asking the team to scrap all team orders as he wants no part of it. No doubting he won't do that and has no intention of following team orders if they do not result in his benefitting. Morally wrong. That is my last say on the matter. For incidents Webber has played the team game the F1 channel tapped into it.

How many times has Vettel been waved through in a competitive position?

Anytime soon we're going o hear about how moral it is at Ferarri where poor Massa isn't allowed to fart first.

[Critical_mass]

John - thanks very much mate. Good to be back.

Twice i heard a team mate asking for the other to be moved out the way as "they were faster"... both times i said, especially with the Vettel one, if you're faster then OVERTAKE THEM!

[Bull]

Webber would have won the race and deserved too had he not been told to not push, Vettel yes did not listen to team orders but in the end this is racing and it could make a real difference in the title race, so from that point of you can see why he did it, he may have been wrong but it is what it is.

Rosberg should of been allowed to go past Hamilton

Yeah Alonso should pit but did not which happened to be the wrong choice, good on Massa to get back into 5th good points for ferrari i see them both being allowed to race personally tbh but yeah looking forward to the next one in 3 weeks.

Good on Hulkenberg too, great job for him showing what he can do after he missed the race and have to say ive been impressed with Bianchi as for Williams they have been dreadful

Come On Ferrari!

[AlciG]

I'm just hoping that Massa can stay ahead of Alonso in the championship and that we can one day hear the words: "Fernando... Fillipe is faster than you"

[Bull]

"Fernando... Fillipe is faster than you"

i would find that hilarious and im a ferrari fan lol.

Karma strikes Fernando

[Guest]

No respect shown towards Webber at all from Vettel and more and more we're getting to witness this out-of-control, cry baby, who has become more and more aggressive and wild in his radio communication because of the very fact that his usual 'total control' and 'domination' of F1 races has gone.

Vettel is out of control and this has proven the team can do nothing when personal interests overtake the team goals. Vettel is no longer dominant from lights to flag, therefore this behavior and determination to win at all costs and maximize performance is hardly surprising. Webber's interviews are fascinating as he talks about the three-week break and how he is going to recover from this situation. He says, "I think this will be good medicine for me. There was a lot of things in my mind in the last fifteen laps of the grand prix to be honest. So whether the medicine is enough, we'll see."

What's he talking about, has this situation been the final blow for Webber at Red Bull? Vettel is uncontrollable, team backed & fully supported and near on impossible to compete with in this environment. Webber knows he's not going to win a championship in this environment, so what's the point? Financially he's made for life and could walk into any other racing formula with ease. Is this a cryptic message stating that he maybe thinking about retiring.......If the medicine does not work. He has a huge amount to think about during this break and calling it quits and stating that he was never given an equal chance at Red Bull from the get-go would be, in a way, his chance to open up about the whole situation within Red Bull and the favouritism handed towards Vettel and the constant input of people like Helmut Marko who constantly criticised him and wanted him to fail behind the scenes.

I maybe going over the top or reading too much into these comments but how much can one man take...........is this the last straw? I mean, cancelling the scheduled post race celebrations in order to attend meetings is serious in itself.

[GSC]

If the fact that RB would favour their developed 3 time 25 year old World Champion, over a 36 year old guy with 1/3rd the career wins is a shock to Webber, then yeah, its probably time for him to call it a day

[matelot golfer]

Hi guys, enjoyed it today and surely it has only just made the season one to really look forward to for the remaining 17 races of the season? Amazing that most of my mates who are not even hardcore F1 fans were talking about it in the clubhouse today.
Mark my words, I have a feeling that Webber might just take his revenge out on Vettel with 1 or two races to go at the end of the season!
One thing about today though, surely when webber realised Vettel was not going to give it up, webber could not hold him back when the heat came on!!

[monty junior]

No respect shown towards Webber at all from Vettel and more and more we're getting to witness this out-of-control, cry baby, who has become more and more aggressive and wild in his radio communication because of the very fact that his usual 'total control' and 'domination' of F1 races has gone.

Vettel is out of control and this has proven the team can do nothing when personal interests overtake the team goals. Vettel is no longer dominant from lights to flag, therefore this behavior and determination to win at all costs and maximize performance is hardly surprising. Webber's interviews are fascinating as he talks about the three-week break and how he is going to recover from this situation. He says, "I think this will be good medicine for me. There was a lot of things in my mind in the last fifteen laps of the grand prix to be honest. So whether the medicine is enough, we'll see."

What's he talking about, has this situation been the final blow for Webber at Red Bull? Vettel is uncontrollable, team backed & fully supported and near on impossible to compete with in this environment. Webber knows he's not going to win a championship in this environment, so what's the point? Financially he's made for life and could walk into any other racing formula with ease. Is this a cryptic message stating that he maybe thinking about retiring.......If the medicine does not work. He has a huge amount to think about during this break and calling it quits and stating that he was never given an equal chance at Red Bull from the get-go would be, in a way, his chance to open up about the whole situation within Red Bull and the favouritism handed towards Vettel and the constant input of people like Helmut Marko who constantly criticised him and wanted him to fail behind the scenes.

I maybe going over the top or reading too much into these comments but how much can one man take...........is this the last straw? I mean, cancelling the scheduled post race celebrations in order to attend meetings is serious in itself.

What are you blabbing on about "out of control"? what previous examples do you have of him doing anything like this? yes he was out of order but frankly had it been Hamilton you'd probably be spouting "that's what true racers do", "he never gives up or accept second best". Webber wouldn't win a Championship either way, he's just way to inconsistent and a poor starter, he should have won today but i highly doubt it's going to make a big difference come the end of the season IMO.

[Critical_mass]

I think there's a difference between not giving up, whilst racing and not giving up whilst been instructed by the team to hold station. Lewis never gives up when racing, however he does obey team orders.

So you saying "if it was Lewis" blah blah is a little unfair given the circumstances.

I think the main examples are when Vettel ran into Webber in Turkey 2010.. it was clear that Vettel turned right into Webber. Vettel blamed Webber as did the team.

Another example is when Vettel crashed in Silverstone in the wet (again 2010?? ) when Vettel smashed his new wing and they decided to take Webbers off him and give it to Vettel.

Im sure there are more, but those are the 2 that stand out.

[Dave.]

Very naughty Seb. But, he won the race, and quite frankly wasn't it great to see Vettel and Webber racing for the LEAD? Isn't that what we want to see? I'm not Seb's biggest fan at the end of the day, but its racing after all. Let 'em race! And if Seb won the title by less than 7 points at the end of the season.....

What I didn't like though was the "He's too slow, get him out of the way" comment earlier in the race. Pass him then! (Which he then did!)

[monty junior]

I think there's a difference between not giving up, whilst racing and not giving up whilst been instructed by the team to hold station. Lewis never gives up when racing, however he does obey team orders.

So you saying "if it was Lewis" blah blah is a little unfair given the circumstances.

I think the main examples are when Vettel ran into Webber in Turkey 2010.. it was clear that Vettel turned right into Webber. Vettel blamed Webber as did the team.

Another example is when Vettel crashed in Silverstone in the wet (again 2010?? ) when Vettel smashed his new wing and they decided to take Webbers off him and give it to Vettel.

Im sure there are more, but those are the 2 that stand out.

Fair examples, but those are three years ago before he was a world champion and he was far more raw than he is now. I'm not condoning his actions but again i'd much rather see Vettel battle and overtake for the lead than a boring procession to the end of the race. As far as i can see there's not any Webber die hards on this forum who are the only people i can really see feeling aggrieved. If you are number one in the sport though i appreciate you are under more scrutiny than anyone else like Woods is in golf or Schumacher when he was in his prime, he shouldn't have done it but lets not get all anal and sensationalist about it, it was still a comfortable 1-2 for Redbull who at the end of the day are leading both championships once again.

[Critical_mass]

True, those were a few seasons ago.. as i said there are probably more recent ones i cant remember.

But still the argument is valid, assuming youre arguing Vettel disobeyed ordered and cheated his team mate of a win. Also there was a clear disrespect towards Webber.

Look at the Merc situation, Rosberg ISNT a WDC and has only had one win. Lewis has had many wins and is a WDC. If Rosberg had done what Vettel did, id be saying the same towards him than i did towards Vettel, despite the roles been reversed - it was the guy infront thats the WDC as opposed to behind like with the RBR situation. I suppose the main difference is, there hasnt ever been that sort of atmosphere between Nico and Lewis like there has been between the RBR drivers. For me its that, that really differentiates the 2 and i dont think it would have been half as bad if fans and media didnt already think Webber was treated as a number 2 driver.

There's 17 races left for god sake, so what Vettel did was needless.. i dont care if people say 1 point can make all the difference... sure it can. But so early in the season theres no need to be "robbing" positions from your team mate. (imo)

Anyone else think the next 3 weeks are going to be slow!

[Hulking_up]

Vettle was told to stay behind Mark for the good of the team. The same team that made him a 3 time world champ.
He should have manned up and excepted it.

How many people here are going to go to work this week and ignore what your boss want's you to do?

[User 774433]

Pathetic from the immoral cheat.
If not for the team orders Webber would have sped up and won the race- he was ahead all along.
What's the percentage chance RB punish Vettel for disobeying?
Maybe 100 euro fine.

[Critical_mass]

Vettle was told to stay behind Mark for the good of the team. The same team that made him a 3 time world champ.
He should have manned up and excepted it.

How many people here are going to go to work this week and ignore what your boss want's you to do?

Exactly.. its not like it was the last race or even second to last race. it was 2 races in!! Plenty more to go.

[Critical_mass]

Pathetic from the immoral cheat.
If not for the team orders Webber would have sped up and won the race- he was ahead all along.
What's the percentage chance RB punish Vettel for disobeying?
Maybe 100 euro fine.

They wont punish him.

[SteveG]

Being ruthless on a race track and disobeying team orders in favour of self interest are two completely different things. When a driver - no matter who, considers himself to be bigger than the team then you've got problems. Simple as.

Putting the moral debate to one side, what Vettel did provide however, was some great racing and was a reminder of what F1 should be about. Why on earth are we even talking team orders at this point in a season. A joke. Teams should trust that teammates who are the best drivers in the world have enough respect for each other to go wheel to wheel without taking each other out. That's what we pay our hard earned to see.

[mystiroakey]

Senna would have done what vettel did 100 times over.. and he wouldnt have apoligised..

I am not saying what Vetel did was right but I agree with you Stevie. We dont buy into F1 for a race that lasts 40 laps..

Both teams in the top 4 places were telling there drivers to hold position

[SteveG]

We dont buy into F1 for a race that lasts 40 laps.

Precisely. What I'm saying is there shoudn't even be any team orders at this stage - and had there not been then none of this would have happened. The drivers should have been free to race to the flag. But equally - as most would agree - a driver cannot go around undermining his employers.

[CaledonianCraig]

Point is StevieG that Vettel was more than happy to use the team orders card when it suited him but clearly feels it okay to ignore them when it doesn't suit him. Vettel fans will paint this as him being ruthless without opening their eyes and noting Webber backed off as team orders said as the win was his but Vettel disregarded this. And if they are naive or blindly in love with Vettel so much that they won't admit he has benifited from Webber's help in the past I suggest they take note of Christian Horner who, openly after the race, admitted Webber has played the team game in the past to Vettel's benifit. Sadly, it confirms what sort of a person Vettel is.

[liverbnz]

2011 British GP


Frustrated Mark Webber admitted he ignored team orders not to overtake his Red Bull teammate Sebastian Vettel during the final stages of Sunday's British Grand Prix.

The 34-year-old Australian caught German Vettel in the final laps and despite instructions from his team telling him to 'maintain the gap', he mounted several unsuccessful overtaking attempts before settling for third behind winner Fernando Alonso


"I am not fine with it, no," he said. "If Fernando (Alonso) retires on the last lap, we are fighting for the win.

"Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place. Seb was doing his best, I was doing my best. I wasn't going to crash with anyone.

"I try to do my best with the amount of one way conversation I was having - I was trying to do my best to pass the guy in front."

Webber played down talk of another favouritism row and suggested that if the situation had been reversed, Vettel would have responded in the same way.

When asked if he was feeling like the number two driver again, he said: "Not really.

"Four or five laps to go, they started to chat to me about holding my position. I wanted the points but I also wanted to get some more points as well.

"I just wanted to race to the end and I'm sure if it had been the other way round it would have been like that as well."

Defending drivers' champion Vettel, 24, said he understood why the team asked them not to race each other but conceded that he had enjoyed the battle.

"I try to stay ahead, nothing wrong with that," he said.

"If you have the cars quite isolated in second and third, with the first guy away and the fourth guy pretty far away, from the team's point of view there is no point racing and doing something stupid.

"The difference between second and third is not massive but we naturally try to race. I tried to hold position. I was struggling, Mark was faster and then there was the chequered flag."

Vettel added that he thought the situation had been blown wildly out of proportion.

"To me at this stage it is quite amusing," he said.

"If it was the other way around, there is no point - of course I would like to overtake Mark at that stage, so no point trying to do something stupid. I don't see why there is such a fuss."

Vettel finished second and now holds an 80 point lead in the title race, Webber is second with 124 points, with Alonso of Ferrari a further 12 points adrift.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/mark-webber-ignores-team-orders-as-he-claims-british-grand-prix-podium-place-20110711-1h9co.html#ixzz2OXzV95KR

[GSC]

Well thats a spanner in the works for the anti Vettel crowd

[liverbnz]

https://www.606v2.com/t9084-webber-says-he-ignored-orders

Here's a thread on it and it's laughable the double standards being applied in here by some people. Vettel was in the wrong, there's no doubt, but the agenda against him on here is a bit of a joke - and I don't even like the guy myself.

[GSC]

https://www.606v2.com/t9084-webber-says-he-ignored-orders

Here's a thread on it and it's laughable the double standards being applied in here by some people. Vettel was in the wrong, there's no doubt, but the agenda against him on here is a bit of a joke - and I don't even like the guy myself.

I wish I was surprised

[mystiroakey]

Is anyone even having a pop at vettel.. It seems very tame stuff

[liverbnz]

Is anyone even having a pop at vettel.. It seems very tame stuff

And yet in this one they are going bonkers. That's the point.

[GSC]

Yeah, the point is Vettel gets crucified on here for any little mistake that passes under the radar for any other driver. Or not even mistakes as the case may be. Not driving through the field to win every race.

[mystiroakey]

Crucified... Come on.

The guy is a snake in the grass and deserved a bit of bashing(not that I actually have !). We all knew this and given the chance many others are as well..

The whole sport is flawed. But the great thing is we still love it!!

[monty junior]

https://www.606v2.com/t9084-webber-says-he-ignored-orders

Here's a thread on it and it's laughable the double standards being applied in here by some people. Vettel was in the wrong, there's no doubt, but the agenda against him on here is a bit of a joke - and I don't even like the guy myself.

That's the thing with Vettel, there seem to be standards for some drivers and completely different ones to him. I'm not even a fan, i find F1 boring being dominated so much by one driver but he deserves a helluva lot more praise than he get's and i end up trying to defend him. He should have accepted second but i don't see why so many are upset that he actually provided some excitement as opposed to a joke procession.

[GSC]

Crucified... Come on.

The guy is a snake in the grass and deserved a bit of bashing(not that I actually have !). We all knew this and given the chance many others are as well..

The whole sport is flawed. But the great thing is we still love it!!

The point is, Webber does it and we get a short topic that applauds Webber for racing, and then devolves into Vettel can't overtake etc.

Vettel does it, and theres 100 posts about how Vettel is a no morals cheat who punches kittens for fun.

[Fernando]

[CaledonianCraig]

Perhaps the reaction to Vettel doing it there is a reason? Webber was seen by fans as getting the rough end of the stick by Red Bull as it is clear to all Vettel has always been the blue-eyed boy getting preferential treatment so when Webber did it (allegedly) he was seen as growing a pair of balls and hitting back against suppression. With Vettel it was clearly different as can be assessed by Christian Horner being unable to defend his darling Vettel.

[harryspiv]

https://www.606v2.com/t9084-webber-says-he-ignored-orders

Here's a thread on it and it's laughable the double standards being applied in here by some people. Vettel was in the wrong, there's no doubt, but the agenda against him on here is a bit of a joke - and I don't even like the guy myself.

Some people really don't have a clue. Where at Silverstone both cars were going full at it and both capable of racing one another, yesterday Mark Webber was told to turn his engine down by his team and as a result was completely defenseless to any attack that Vettel made. It wasn't just against team orders, it was cowardly. You could hear the petulance of Vettel's radio messages 'Mark is too slow, let me past'. 3 world titles and he thinks he is now bigger than the team well sorry seb no you are not.

[mystiroakey]

Crucified... Come on.

The guy is a snake in the grass and deserved a bit of bashing(not that I actually have !). We all knew this and given the chance many others are as well..

The whole sport is flawed. But the great thing is we still love it!!

The point is, Webber does it and we get a short topic that applauds Webber for racing, and then devolves into Vettel can't overtake etc.

Vettel does it, and theres 100 posts about how Vettel is a no morals cheat who punches kittens for fun.

Got to love the underdog. Its all pantomine

[CaledonianCraig]

Can someone please go figure why even Christian Horner openly cannot defend Vettel?? Doesn't that tell you how reprehensible the darling of the team acted? Horner has long been Vettel's lap dog and even he couldn't defend Vettel for his actions.

The repercussions for the inner workings of the team though have now been set. Vettel runs Red Bull how he sees fit and to hell with what any team principal says. Whilst Vettel is there nothing will change a la Ferrari in Schumacher era.

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