Dignified Behaviour and Sanctions

Should senior team officials receive punitive sanctions from the game's governing body if they transgress standard regulatory appeal and review procedures by bad mouthing match officials in the media?

My feeling is that it's unhealthy for the game and prejudices the IRB hierarchy to have international coaches casting aspersions in the media rather than using the official review process available to them.

I think the IRB should have the power to sanction individuals or their employers when this happens, just as would occur in other professional sports.

What do you think?

I think that although Lancaster has been famed for his handling of the press, media, pundits and interviewers he and Rowntree made a huge mistake public ally criticising the referee's decision making after England were beaten so convincingly.

Should they be punished? I would think an internal investigation and some reprimand from the RFU would be sufficient.

It is good to question referees but openly stating that you give glowing reports about referees that adjudicate games your team wins and publicly querying those who referee the games where you get a stuffing is not good practice.

maestegmafia wrote:I think that although Lancaster has been famed for his handling of the press, media, pundits and interviewers he and Rowntree made a huge mistake public ally criticising the referee's decision making after England were beaten so convincingly.

Should they be punished? I would think an internal investigation and some reprimand from the RFU would be sufficient.

It is good to question referees but openly stating that you give glowing reports about referees that adjudicate games your team wins and publicly querying those who referee the games where you get a stuffing is not good practice.

They got punished enough last saturday I think most know how childlike it was to complain so much anyway.

A thread on "Dignified Behaviour"...

Pretty ironic after the behaviour of several of your "welsh" compatriots on here...

GeordieFalcon wrote:A thread on "Dignified Behaviour"...

Pretty ironic after the behaviour of several of your "welsh" compatriots on here...

With all due respect Geodie mate, what on earth has that got to do with anyone but them.

Most of us ignore them and the myriad of others who aren't welsh. I recommend if they annoy you so much with their lack of dignity you follow suit.

I think you have to be extremely careful what you wish for. If the press ask a question, you could get an honest response or they could just say "I am not allowed to comment due to IRB regulations." England saying they are seeking clarification on matters is no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story.

Nearly every international coach would currently be under sanction if you applied it retrospectively. They all make comments in the press either before or after games, to try and influence them.

Just like what happened to W Barnes in 2007 eh grey ghost? Is that the gist of it?

jelly wrote:I think you have to be extremely careful what you wish for. If the press ask a question, you could get an honest response or they could just say "I am not allowed to comment due to IRB regulations." England saying they are seeking clarification on matters is no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story.

Nearly every international coach would currently be under sanction if you applied it retrospectively. They all make comments in the press either before or after games, to try and influence them.

Blown out of proportions?

Row tree stated that he gives referees who run the games England win a glowing report, he also queries referees that who run games where England lose.

That is a very unprofessional stance.

There are plenty of refereeing decisions that have gone England's way, that England have benefitted from, learned from, I bet Rowntree and Lancaster do not query those decisions?


I have to admit that the fact when anyone is critical of English rugby, coaches, players or even the blwdi PRL all english fans do is put their head in the sand and say "no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story." Maybe it is time England fans cared and worried a little more about their team.

Difference being, maes, if this was Wales doing the querying you would say it was brilliant and praise them to high heaven for trying to clarify the situation for the good of rugby.

I personally don't think it's that big an issue but I'd rather it had been handled slightly differently eg Rowntree saying 'we had some queries and we're going to try and get some clarification. No other comment'.

Storm in a teacup.

Without doubt every test team will fill in a referee report card after every match. Queries, complaints, praise for the IRB etc.

Some rugbylite journalist probably asked him in press conference if he was complaining about ref and he said he made some queries on decisions which he disagreed with... hence why he also said he reports on good things refs do also.

From that its England make a stance on the referee... well probably not correct given they have to report every game.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Difference being, maes, if this was Wales doing the querying you would say it was brilliant and praise them to high heaven for trying to clarify the situation for the good of rugby.

I personally don't think it's that big an issue but I'd rather it had been handled slightly differently eg Rowntree saying 'we had some queries and we're going to try and get some clarification. No other comment'.

+1

sorry maesteg, let me try and be clearer. I don't think England should have said anything at all about it, though it was clear from as early as Sunday morning that they had a big problem with Walsh - Lancaster's response to whether he was 100% happy with the refereeing was very telling. The headlines came a few days later when the press were looking for a new angle on the story.

Nowhere has Rowntree said that he gives glowing references every time that England win and seeks clarification when they lose. That is just another example of how people have ignored what he actually said and interpreted it to fit their pre-determined views.

I have seen little evidence of English fans burying their heads in the sand which may be for one of two reasons:-

1 My head is in the sand so I can't see
2 They have accepted that Wales were better on the day, England have an awful lot of improving to do and plenty to worry about.

I don't see any contradiction whatsoever in my view that Wales were better than England and Walsh had a bad game.

I think SL has a right to ask for clarification; he is an astute and professional coach, very likeable - the rest is just media hype and neurotic euphoria that belongs on Eastenders.

I wish it had not come into the public domain.

I wish it had not come quite so obviously into the public domain - but that is always the problem with an English sporting team, they are far more under the microscope.

Certain coaches from other countries who complained about the refereeing when they were losing last year got away with it as it was only picked up by their local press.

Should it have happened - NO.

Has it been blow out of all proportion YES

Is an old returning friend just stirring up his usual anti-english polemic - HELL YES

maestegmafia wrote:

jelly wrote:I think you have to be extremely careful what you wish for. If the press ask a question, you could get an honest response or they could just say "I am not allowed to comment due to IRB regulations." England saying they are seeking clarification on matters is no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story.

Nearly every international coach would currently be under sanction if you applied it retrospectively. They all make comments in the press either before or after games, to try and influence them.

Blown out of proportions?

Row tree stated that he gives referees who run the games England win a glowing report, he also queries referees that who run games where England lose.

That is a very unprofessional stance.

There are plenty of refereeing decisions that have gone England's way, that England have benefitted from, learned from, I bet Rowntree and Lancaster do not query those decisions?


I have to admit that the fact when anyone is critical of English rugby, coaches, players or even the blwdi PRL all english fans do is put their head in the sand and say "no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story." Maybe it is time England fans cared and worried a little more about their team.

Your making that up Meas, i suggest you edit your post as it could be consrude as slander. Here's the actual quote;

"In most of the games I’ve submitted glowing reports on referees but on this occasion we were frustrated by a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to Joel to get some clarification"

Note how he said most games, where does it indicate he gives glowing reports on only games he wins. Before the Wales match England had won all their games so if he was intended to mean what your saying, he would of said all not some

Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?

Interesting, GloriousEmpire first pretended to be English, posting over the top anti-Welsh comments to attempt to besmirch the English posters on here. It was a very poor attempt. So now's he's dropped his pretence and gone back to his usual low grade wumming. Pathetic really.

[/b]Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?[b]

30 - 3 there you go not made up. Hardly disturbing reading unless you are English.

Sorry guys, no matter how hard you try, you're not going to overturn the (valid) perception that a losing welsh camp likes to moan about the ref as much as any other losing camp.

I have a little bit of time for poor losers (come on, we've all been there) but poor (and needy) winners just make me laugh.

rainbow-warrior wrote:[/b]Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?[b]

30 - 3 there you go not made up. Hardly disturbing reading unless you are English.

yes, great logic there rainbow. You must be a prize asset to your country....

Just wait till half past 3

England is a team that works hard on not giving penalties - at least not ones in kicking range. Part of that is good communication with the ref before the match in order to get the players to do the right things during it. England did give a lot of penalties in this match compared to their other ones. A big reason was the pressure they were under, but the suggestion has been that what Walsh told Rowntree before the match and what Walsh actually did was different, and England are trying to now get some clarification.

Big deal. Stupid not to. Yet another non event to rank alongside North 'apparently' (as in according to journalists rather than what he actually said) wanting to smash England's faces

nathan wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:[/b]Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?[b]

30 - 3 there you go not made up. Hardly disturbing reading unless you are English.

yes, great logic there rainbow. You must be a prize asset to your country....

Not half as much as the Welsh rugby team

RubyGuby wrote:Just wait till half past 3

I'll be heading to the pub by then

LondonTiger wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Just wait till half past 3

I'll be heading to the pub by then

Good for you Tiger, the Friday feeling - I pick up my 6 year old after work (6 ish) then its home for a curry and the Rabo Direct match live with some liquid refreshment

Just answering the initial post...and forgive if I repeat anything guys as it's the only one I've read so far.

I say rugby doesn't need to take any lessons from 'other' sports...if that's the sport with the round ball made of hexagons and pentagons!!!

I believe in the freedom of speech. I believe a person's right to say something rides solidly over another person's right to be offended. I believe coaches should have that same freedom to express their views and not be tongue tied by an administrative rule book of 'what to say and what not to say'

If the rules force a coach in front of the media at certain times (after games) then they should have the gace to listen to what he or they want to say, not to give them a prepared buttery sweet eulogy of the greatness of rugby and the brotherly love of all. It's a man's sport. Let's all stop pretending we're all sooooo offended by the words that come out of people's mouths. They don't physically hurt and you can ignore them if you really want to.

Besides, without controversy...where would a place like 606 be??? We thrive on the things that should'na be said but are

And that's before we discuss the ball boys at the Millenium Secret

RubyGuby wrote:And that's before we discuss the ball boys at the Millenium Secret

I had a ............................................ball................... with that one, Ruby. I had such a laugh during that 'controversy'. It was beautiful theatre. Wonderful stuff

At least the ball boy had a better service than Mike

I actually saw them both warming up on the Friday

Was that ball boy there again???????????????????? keep that one under your hat, Ruby. Rowntree has enough to occupy his mind right now.

SecretFly wrote:Was that ball boy there again???????????????????? keep that one under your hat, Ruby. Rowntree has enough to occupy his mind right now.

He was warming up at half time but Howley told him to sit down after 60 mins. Lad was disappointed, was looking forward to getting his 2nd cap at this level

RubyGuby wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Was that ball boy there again???????????????????? keep that one under your hat, Ruby. Rowntree has enough to occupy his mind right now.

He was warming up at half time but Howley told him to sit down after 60 mins. Lad was disappointed, was looking forward to getting his 2nd cap at this level

Is that true though? Is that kid still young enough to give the ball to.... I mean to be a ballboy?

And he so wanted to participate in one of those 14 man line outs

It is virtually impossible to keep events like this out of the media.

An innocent question will provide a seasoned journalist an opportunity to seize and exploit infromation provided to create controversy.

They can smeel it from a mile away.

Is the transgression really that of Rountree, or that of journalists seeking controversy?

You can always chew on a Rowntrees

Neither, I'd reckon, Bilton

..it's fun, it's media...it's Ferguson and Mourinho... it's the sideshow...it keeps Rugby Union alive...it'll all be forgotten in a month.

rainbow-warrior wrote:[/b]Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?[b]

30 - 3 there you go not made up. Hardly disturbing reading unless you are English.

Your going to dining out on that all year..

my view (welsh fan)
football = nowhere near enough respect afforded to the ref
rugby = often too much respect afforded to the ref.

Some of them think they are untouchable. I know if the boot had been on the other foot last Sat with Walsh penalising Wales off the park I would have been fuming.

Pefectly reasonable for England coaching team to want clarification. Luckily Walsh did not affect the actual match outcome, just the margin of victory.

Tatterd
I think I love you.
I have now seen a reasonable Welsh view I actually agree with 100% !
Well done mate

nathan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

jelly wrote:I think you have to be extremely careful what you wish for. If the press ask a question, you could get an honest response or they could just say "I am not allowed to comment due to IRB regulations." England saying they are seeking clarification on matters is no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story.

Nearly every international coach would currently be under sanction if you applied it retrospectively. They all make comments in the press either before or after games, to try and influence them.

Blown out of proportions?

Row tree stated that he gives referees who run the games England win a glowing report, he also queries referees that who run games where England lose.

That is a very unprofessional stance.

There are plenty of refereeing decisions that have gone England's way, that England have benefitted from, learned from, I bet Rowntree and Lancaster do not query those decisions?


I have to admit that the fact when anyone is critical of English rugby, coaches, players or even the blwdi PRL all english fans do is put their head in the sand and say "no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story." Maybe it is time England fans cared and worried a little more about their team.

Your making that up Meas, i suggest you edit your post as it could be consrude as slander. Here's the actual quote;

"In most of the games I’ve submitted glowing reports on referees but on this occasion we were frustrated by a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to Joel to get some clarification"

Note how he said most games, where does it indicate he gives glowing reports on only games he wins. Before the Wales match England had won all their games so if he was intended to mean what your saying, he would of said all not some

Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?

Nathan mate,

Sorry but I see what Rowntree said as meaning exactly what I stated above.

Five wins in a row and he says glowing reports for all. One loss and Rowntree complains.

Two things, ONE, I think this topic has been done to death. TWO cut out the personal accusations...!

Did you his reports on the losses to SA and Australia? Thought not.

maestegmafia wrote:

nathan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

jelly wrote:I think you have to be extremely careful what you wish for. If the press ask a question, you could get an honest response or they could just say "I am not allowed to comment due to IRB regulations." England saying they are seeking clarification on matters is no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story.

Nearly every international coach would currently be under sanction if you applied it retrospectively. They all make comments in the press either before or after games, to try and influence them.

Blown out of proportions?

Row tree stated that he gives referees who run the games England win a glowing report, he also queries referees that who run games where England lose.

That is a very unprofessional stance.

There are plenty of refereeing decisions that have gone England's way, that England have benefitted from, learned from, I bet Rowntree and Lancaster do not query those decisions?


I have to admit that the fact when anyone is critical of English rugby, coaches, players or even the blwdi PRL all english fans do is put their head in the sand and say "no big issue and has been blown massively out of proportion by a media desperate for a story." Maybe it is time England fans cared and worried a little more about their team.

Your making that up Meas, i suggest you edit your post as it could be consrude as slander. Here's the actual quote;

"In most of the games I’ve submitted glowing reports on referees but on this occasion we were frustrated by a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to Joel to get some clarification"

Note how he said most games, where does it indicate he gives glowing reports on only games he wins. Before the Wales match England had won all their games so if he was intended to mean what your saying, he would of said all not some

Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?

Nathan mate,

Sorry but I see what Rowntree said as meaning exactly what I stated above.

Five wins in a row and he says glowing reports for all. One loss and Rowntree complains.

Two things, ONE, I think this topic has been done to death. TWO cut out the personal accusations...!

Its pretty clear your making it up, at no point does he say or imply that he's given a glowing report for each previous game England have won. He says he has in some. Nothing more, nothing less. He gives no indication as to which games these were.

Yet your telling us that's he given a glowing report for each previous win, it's pretty simple. Your making it up.

please point us all to where he said this (highlighted in bold)?

What about Gatland whinging when Warburton was redcarded (which was the correct decision)?

Breadvan wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:[/b]Maybe it's time for certain Welsh posters on here to stop making stuff up to suit there point of view?[b]

30 - 3 there you go not made up. Hardly disturbing reading unless you are English.

Your going to dining out on that all year..

Believe me I will have more. Anyway if it bothers you, you know what to do:)

Not really....

Still looking for a decent thread to chat on...