My Lions View.

First topic message reminder :

Ok so with the dust settling on the 6 Nations, I've been thinking a lot about the Lions and who should and shouldn't go. I initially selected a 37 man squad, but then after discussion elsewhere have added one player, that player being Joe Launchbury covering the second and back rows, and swapped one for one, with Richie Gray going out, and Nathan Hines coming in.

1. Cian Healy, Gethin Jenkins, Ryan Grant
2. Richard Hibbard, Rory Best, Dylan Hartley
3. Adam Jones, Dan Cole, Euan Murray
4. Jim Hamilton, Nathan Hines, Joe Launchbury
5. Geoff Parling, Ian Evans
6. Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Kelly Brown
7. Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric
8. Johnnie Beattie, Toby Faletau

9. Mike Phillips, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs
10. Johnny Sexton, Owen Farrell, Dan Biggar

11. George North, Craig Gilroy
12. Jamie Roberts, Matt Scott
13. Manu Tuilagi, Brian O'Driscoll
14. Christian Wade, Sean Maitland
15. Stuart Hogg, Leigh Halfpenny, Rob Kearney

That's 38 players, broke down by nationality as follows.

Wales 12
England 10
Scotland 9
Ireland 7


The breakdown of players by nationality actually surprised me, as I thought I would select mainly English and Welsh, but the split is pretty even. It is however in direct correlation to the countries finishing positions in the 6 Nations. This was not planned, it has just turned out that way. I think we have an issue on the wing, where I didn't want to pick Maitland as I would prefer not to select brought in from other nations players. I've also gone for Wade as a bolter, as on hard ground out there he could be a real weapon for us.

I would imagine that there will be eyebrows raised about some omissions, namely Alun Wyn Jones, Jonathan Davies and Alex Cuthbert. For me Alun Wyn Jones flatters to decieve. I've seen him have the odd fantastic game, but I've also seen him look distinctly average too many times, and I don't think he is a better option at 4 than any of the players I've selected. Jonathan Davies I am a big fan of, but I don't think he's been at his best this 6 Nations, and he is in a very competitive position, so narrowly misses out. And Alex Cuthbert, for all of his undoubted attacking threat, appears to me to be able to be got at defensively by a quality opponent. I know people will point to Wade not being a top class defender, but I wanted that something different in the squad, and I think on the hard grounds out there he could be a fantastic weapon of the bench.

So that's me. Thoughts? Criticisms? Who would you select and why?

He can catch, pass, half decent under high ball, tackle and the fact he dominated tuilagi Saturday

Risca Rev wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:AWC&3F's

I would be very surprised to see Corbisiero pull on a shirt again this season. Out of interest, who from the squad I selected would you leave out to accomodate him and Morgan?

Same question to fa0019, who would you leave out to accomodate AWJ and Zebo?

I'd leave out Jenkins (can't even beg a start ahead of Sheridan at Toulon) and Felatou (not as strong a carrier as Morgan).

Really I hadn't heard that. Has he had problems in rehab?

Leave out Faletau and Jenkins? Really? I don't see how Faletau isn't as good a carrier. He's also a lot fitter than Morgan.

Jenkins had a great tournament after the Ireland game. No reason to leave him out.

Yes I will have to agree with you there, Rev. Gatland would be a maniac to leave out those two. Did AWC3F watch the six nations?

gleesonisgod wrote:Really don't see what the deal with Roberts is. It seems all he dose is run into people, a poor man's Tuilagi if you ask me.

You're on form tonight.

gleesonisgod

are you going to contribute anything positive to this discussion, or simply going to trash certain players?

Risca Rev wrote:

gleesonisgod wrote:Really don't see what the deal with Roberts is. It seems all he dose is run into people, a poor man's Tuilagi if you ask me.

You're on form tonight.

That must make Tuilagi a poor mans Hal Luscombe!

Ozzy3213 wrote:gleesonisgod

are you going to contribute anything positive to this discussion, or simply going to trash certain players?

Not everyone has to agree with your opinion, thats basically the whole point of a forum like this.

I've not asked you to agree with my opinion fella, but rather than just trash Roberts, why not add some substance to why you don't think he's any good, and perhaps suggest who you'd select instead and why.

gleesonisgod wrote:Really don't see what the deal with Roberts is. It seems all he dose is run into people, a poor man's Tuilagi if you ask me.

Yes, a lot of the Welsh players' stock have dramatically risen after one game.

1. Cian Healy, Gethin Jenkins, Mako Vunipola
2. Richard Hibbard, Rory Best, Tom Youngs
3. Adam Jones, Dan Cole, Euan Murray
4. Joe Launchbury, Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ieuan Evans, Paul O'Connell, Donncha Ryan
6. Sean O', Brien, Chris Robshaw, Kelly Brown
7. Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric
8. Johnnie Beattie, Toby Faletau

9. Mike Phillips, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs
10. Johnny Sexton, Dan Biggar, Ian Madigan (mostly as a bolter, sorry Farrell)

11. George North, Simon Zebo
12. Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies
13. Manu Tuilagi, Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe, Sean Maitland, Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny, Rob Kearney (harsh on Hogg, I know, but Kearney hasn't been as bad as he's been made out to be, hopefully class is permanent)

15 Welsh
12 Irish (admittedly completely disproportionate to national side's performances, but our gameplan doesn't effectively utilise certain individuals, we have had so many injuries, and I am taking provincial form into some account)
7 English
4 Scots

1. Healy
2. Best (Hibbard if Best's bad form continues)
3. Cole (has more to offer than A.Jones IMO)
4. Launchbury (POC if he comes back strongly)
5. Ieuan Evans
6. SOB
7. Tipuric/Warburton (decided on form)
8. Faletau
9. Youngs (still the best all-round SH)
10. Sexton (if fit)
11. North
12. J Davies
13. BOD
14. Maitland (Bowe if he comes back strongly)
15. Halfpenny

Anyone leaving out Cuthbert for defensive reasons and then selecting Hogg is a little confused in my opinion. Cuthbert doesn't miss many tackles. very occasionally his positioning can be out but that's it.

Hogg is not someone I would want as a last line of defence even if he was the worlds best attacker. His tackle success rate is pathetic which pretty much sums up his attempt at Fofana last week. Some are even moving Halfpenny out of his normal position to accomodate him. Why? Pick your best players in their best positions.

losty, I would say that is definitely a disproportionate number of Irishmen, however all are top class players who could stake a claim, with the exception of Madigan, who for me is a million miles away from Lions selection. I can see a bolter being included in the squad, but not in such a pivotal position.

Halfpenny for me is not a winger or a full back doctornickolas, he's a back 3 player and equally comfortable wearing 14 or 15.

Ozzy3213 wrote:losty, I would say that is definitely a disproportionate number of Irishmen, however all are top class players who could stake a claim, with the exception of Madigan, who for me is a million miles away from Lions selection. I can see a bolter being included in the squad, but not in such a pivotal position.

Maybe Paul O'Connell and Donncha Ryan was a bit much. And I can see why people would be confused as to why I selected Kearney over Hogg, but the former was still overcoming an injury in the 6N. Otherwise, I don't think I was that biased, Tommy Bowe has been the best B&I wing for club and country over the last 2 or 3 years, and should have some time to recover from injury before the tour.

You clearly haven't seen much of Madigan, although hopefully you'll see him running the show for Leinster next year. Okay I wouldn't have selected him if I didn't have to include a bolter, although he shone in an abysmal Irish performance against Italy, and has been in very good form of late for Leinster lately. He can also cover 12 and 15, has an excellent running game and you can always let Halfpenny take charge of the goal-kicking. Not that unreasonable IMO, and I haven't been impressed by Farrell, even his goalkicking has been overhyped.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I've not asked you to agree with my opinion fella, but rather than just trash Roberts, why not add some substance to why you don't think he's any good, and perhaps suggest who you'd select instead and why.

Alright. As I said all he dose is run into people which only worked, surprisingly, against the English. I think Tuilagi is quicker and has better feet and played just as well, if not better, against France than Roberts did against England. Before the England match everyone was going on about how bad Roberts has been and yet he did nothing differently against England and now in many minds he should have a test place.

Might as well do my own squad with the first names for each position starting:

1 Healy, Jenkins, Vunipola
2 Best (considering he gets his throwing right, Hibbard and Youngs can be a bit dogy aswell with the throwing but surely one of them will get it together), Hibbard, Youngs
3 Jones, Cole
4/5 Hines, AWJ, Ryan, Launchbury, Parling
6 Robshaw, Brown, Jones
7 Warburton, Tuperic
8 SOB, Faletau
9 Youngs, Phillips (I want to see some consistency first), Laidlaw
10 Sexton, Biggar, Farrell
11/14 Cuthbert, Bowe, North, Maitland, Zebo
12/13 BOD, Tuilagi, JDV, Marshall
15 Halfpenny, Hogg

Squad/Starting

Welsh 14/5
English 9/3
Irish 9/6
Scottish 5/1

2nd Row completely up in the air, all very evenly matched with Hamilton, Gray, and Evans all up there with them and possibly POC. Roberts, Brown, and Gilroy unlucky to miss out. Also not really familiar with props so just stuck in Vunipola cause he made some really nice carries.

Possible Bolters: Madigan, Wade (Haven't seen him but like the sound of him), Vunipola (Same as Wade), Welsh scrum half, Henderson (I can dream).

I'll bat for Cuthbert. i like him as a ball carrier, and I don't think his defence is that poor.

I remember comparing his defensive workrate with that of North last year and he did more than twice the amount of work.

As far as Roberts goes, I think he is most effective with JD by his side, they imoressed me in the RWC in 2011 and ever since I have always thought without JD the Welsh backline runs far too direct, JD provides a bit of step and guile to the Welsh backline.

In fact JD would be my first choice in the Lions backline.

Ye North is in the same boat as Gray except there is much more competition for 2nd row places.

gleesonisgod wrote:
Squad/Starting

Welsh 14/5
English 9/3
Irish 9/6
Scottish 5/1

I hesitate before asking this question, but do you really feel that the biggest national representation in the test XV should be from the side that finished lowest of the constituent nations in the 6 Nations?

lets just put it this way

Healy, you can't argue with
Best, most on form hooker of the past season
SOB, can't argue with if you watched the six nations, he was a tank
Sexton, can't argue with
Bowe, didn't play in a six nations where no wingers bar Cuthbert really put their hand up
BOD, centre is very competitive and it really dose just come down to personal opinion. Had a better 6N than JD anyway.

I really wouldn't overlook a player just because of his nationality.

Also we were inches from atleast finishing on the same amount of points as Wales and England.

With O'Driscoll I feel the best thing is to make a firm call. He should either be captain or else stay at home.

Not sure how you say you can't argue with any of them to be honest. All have merit, but none would be nailed on as you appear to suggest.

Healy. Has a very good chance of starting, but Jenkins will push hard, and Gatland may see Healy as a better bench option for impact.

Best. Has had a poor 6 Nations by his standards, and for me Hibbard is the front runner going on most recent international form.

SOB. Carries like a tank, but for me offers little else. I wouldn't play him at 8 as I prefer a more intelligent footballer there, and I think there are other flankers with better all round games than him.

Sexton. Probably the most nailed on of the the players you listed.

Bowe. Whilst I agree that wing is not an area of strength, he will need to finish the season very well for Ulster to play ahead of those who have been scoring tries in test matches this year.

BOD. I agree that centre is very competitive. He could make it in for sure, and there are arguments both for pairing him with Roberts again, as they worked well together in 2009, and also moving him to 12 with Tuilagi outside him.

I would be amazed if all six of those made the side for the 1st test.

Why do you say that Stag? Can he not contribute as a player to a successful tour without being captain? I wouldn't make him captain, simply because I don't think he's nailed on as a test starter.

I sm not convinced O'Driscoll can still keep the intensity for a gruelling tour.

1. Cian Healy, Gethin Jenkins, Ryan Grant
That would be very tough on Paul James who can cover the tight. Not that they won't put two props on the bench, but it's squad cover. Gatland is enough of his own man to leave Healy out.

2. Richard Hibbard, Rory Best, Dylan Hartley
I don't like Hartley, but that doesn't make him a bad player!

3. Adam Jones, Dan Cole, Euan Murray

4. Jim Hamilton, Nathan Hines, Joe Launchbury
5. Geoff Parling, Ian Evans
No AWJ, POC or Gray? Big call. Don't rate Hamilton or Parling however old school a second row called Jim and Geoff sounds.

6. Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Kelly Brown

7. Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric

8. Johnnie Beattie, Toby Faletau

9. Mike Phillips, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs
I really like Laidlaw. In a Lions side with better players around him he will have the chance to shine.

10. Johnny Sexton, Owen Farrell, Dan Biggar

11. George North, Craig Gilroy
Zebo?

12. Jamie Roberts, Matt Scott
Twelvetrees?

13. Manu Tuilagi, Brian O'Driscoll

14. Christian Wade, Sean Maitland
English people don't seem to rate Sharples.

15. Stuart Hogg, Leigh Halfpenny, Rob Kearney
I love Hogg in attack, but that car crash of a tackle in Paris will see him on Scotland's tour. Gatland doesn't like that sort of thing.

Hartley is actually a better thrower than Hibbard and Best. If it wasnt for that I would prefer to go with Tom Youngs. He's been very impressive in his first season of international rugby.

Glas, I had Gray in but swapped him for Hines. That's a 50/50 call for me, and perhaps sentiment with the old warrior has influenced my choice. AWJ I am just not a big fan of. POC has spent more time injured than playing over the past 2 years, and for me, with his injury record, would be a liability on this tour.

I'd have Ryan before Parling or Hamilton.

Hamilton would be my first choice. Huge man who leads the lineout as a 5, but has the physicality of a 4. He's the first name on my team sheet and potential captain.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

gleesonisgod wrote:
Squad/Starting

Welsh 14/5
English 9/3
Irish 9/6
Scottish 5/1

I hesitate before asking this question, but do you really feel that the biggest national representation in the test XV should be from the side that finished lowest of the constituent nations in the 6 Nations?

No.

However...

A) Ireland's injury list. Whilst this could be more than a coincidence, and is not an excuse for Ireland's poor show, you'd think they'd still beat Scotland and Italy with a near to full-strength side.
Also, some of the Lions contenders can't take responsibility for the defeats, POC, Sexton, Bowe, Zebo, although it is a judgement call if they can make it for the Lions.

B) Although Irish fans will obviously believe this more than others, Kidney and co. have not given Ireland an effective gameplan, particularly in attack, and have no clue how to utilise Healy, SOB, POM, Sexton and Gilroy in particular. So I think it is fair to say, to at least some extent, Ireland are less than the sum of their parts.

C) After a couple of rounds of the Heineken Cup, and unusually for Leinster, the Amlin Cup, the players will most likely be playing well again before Gat's selection, whereas the other Home Nations may struggle. Would the 6N still be indicative of form? The bigger question is will the players replicate their provincial form or their national form for the Lions.

I agree with gleesonisgod, Healy and Sexton are nailed on, SOB, Best and BOD are probables, whilst Bowe/Zebo and POC/Ryan have decent shouts.

Couple of cracking points made there losty.

Ireland are most definitely less than the sum of their parts, with the level pf performance from the same players appearing to be higher for their provinces than in green. That does indeed beg the question of what level of performance will they show in the Lions jersey. Unfortunately for Gatland, it's not a question that can be answered in advance and will surely give some headaches in the selection meetings.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Not sure how you say you can't argue with any of them to be honest. All have merit, but none would be nailed on as you appear to suggest.

Healy. Has a very good chance of starting, but Jenkins will push hard, and Gatland may see Healy as a better bench option for impact.

Best. Has had a poor 6 Nations by his standards, and for me Hibbard is the front runner going on most recent international form.

SOB. Carries like a tank, but for me offers little else. I wouldn't play him at 8 as I prefer a more intelligent footballer there, and I think there are other flankers with better all round games than him.

Sexton. Probably the most nailed on of the the players you listed.

Bowe. Whilst I agree that wing is not an area of strength, he will need to finish the season very well for Ulster to play ahead of those who have been scoring tries in test matches this year.

BOD. I agree that centre is very competitive. He could make it in for sure, and there are arguments both for pairing him with Roberts again, as they worked well together in 2009, and also moving him to 12 with Tuilagi outside him.

I would be amazed if all six of those made the side for the 1st test.

I wasn't saying that they are all nailed on starting.....nobody is until the tour gets underway. And by argue I meant big arguement, someone who has clearly outshone someone else. Jenkins has certainly not done that and neither has JD, Faletau, Beattie, Wood, or Tuilagi.

I understand that non-Irish do not rate SOB nearly as highly as we do and that's just something we both have to understand.

Best produced the 2 best performances by a hooker in this Six Nations and arguably by any NH hooker this season in the first 2 games. Against Scotland and especially against Italy his throwing went a miss but his workrate was still top quality.

That's the problem Ozzy.

Questions now arise (or have always been there) as to the quality of form players in the Irish provincial teams who simply can't put it together for their national side - or at least in this last 6N.

However, I think that's a distraction really. I'd take Healy, Best, Sexton and BO'D for sure. Bowe if fit. PO'C, SO'B and maybe Zebo to be considered. That's about it - 8 players max from Ireland.

The bigger problem I would say is what does Gatland do given the most recent result. It really is an unfortunate scenario. Almost a whole year of uncertainty and frustration with England's stocks emerging to the fore. This is not a bad thing - but it has widened the pool of contention and raised a lot more questions - thereby 'muddying the waters' somewhat.

In the space of a year or so - we've gone from a potentially Wales-dominated Lions team - then have seen that slowly eroded away in the course of the tour to Australia... right up until the match in Paris a few weeks ago. Now they have a legitimate claim again for the highest representation in the team/squad after their 6N comback and a dominant performance last Saturday.

This whole situation plays nicely into the Wallabies hands. The Welsh players/combinations who/which came very close in the matches/series here and in NZ, Cardiff (only 6 points ave. diff in the last 8 matches?) will have to be compromised with selections from the other home nations.

How well this will effectively work in a match situation is anyone's guess. There will only be less than 8 weeks to get the machine moving with all the requisite parts after the Squad announcement. It's such a hard ask (to make the selections) and an even harder task to get the selected team to perform seamlessly and with familiarity in such a short space of time.

Evening LB, have you unpacked the boxes?

gleesonisgod wrote:

Best produced the 2 best performances by a hooker in this Six Nations and arguably by any NH hooker this season in the first 2 games. Against Scotland and especially against Italy his throwing went a miss but his workrate was still top quality.

True. Sort of like an outhalf running the game well but having trouble with the boot, Best has been as dogged as ever at the breakdown, but when the spotlight has been on him, his throwing has not been good enough for a Lion.

Biltong wrote:Evening LB, have you unpacked the boxes?

Hi mate.

About 50% boxes unpacked. All furniture placed... looking really good.
I can walk to the stadium (2.2km) or if I'm lazy walk 300m to the train and then 2 stops to Olympic Park.

What are your thoughts on the end result for the Lions? Australia will have to be at the top of their game but I believe we have enough to counter most threats across most positions.

I just think the SH plays a brand of rugby that is difficult to stop.

You can't look at Australia's results lf last year and think they are going to be weak, there were a lot of injuries last year.

Cooper, O'Connor, Genia, Mitchell, Horwill are all back (could have missed a few) and thennGeorge Smith is back, Hooper and Gill so I reckon Australia are marginal favourites

Linebreaker wrote:That's the problem Ozzy.

Questions now arise (or have always been there) as to the quality of form players in the Irish provincial teams who simply can't put it together for their national side - or at least in this last 6N.

However, I think that's a distraction really. I'd take Healy, Best, Sexton and BO'D for sure. Bowe if fit. PO'C, SO'B and maybe Zebo to be considered. That's about it - 8 players max from Ireland.

I'd be fairly confident the Irish guys could play to a standard closer to their provincial form than their miserly 6N performances:

1) Hopefully their confidence will be restored, with a few weeks with their provinces.
2) Gatland chooses good combinations and can set an effective gameplan to unleash the Irish players' provincial form, most importantly Sexton and SOB (who has to play at 6).
3) IMO Ireland have more stand-out players than say England, but also have more weaknesses and less strength in depth than England, ie. a failing Irish scrum, an unbalanced back row, an off-form Murray, hinder the stronger Irish players. Logically in a Lions team they will have more freedom to carry out their own duties.
4) Surely they will relish this once (or four times if you're BOD) in a lifetime opportunity, and play with passion that has been very rarely seen under Kidney, and understandably so, as our results and performances have worsened each year since 2009).
5) Ireland tend to struggle in poor conditions. The Australian turf will suit our players' style, and we also have a pretty decent recent record over the Aussies (better than Wales, anyway ).

Yes, the pride & passion factor is a huge galvanising force. It's all about confidence and 'trust in the pack' type of mentality which has historically produced succesful results for the Lions.

I see what you are saying in points 1), 2) and 3) but time is ticking and the pressure to perform in the last few provincial games is huge.

Funny, Ireland certainly have the wood on Oz in poor conditions. I wouldn't say their record against the Wallabies in the last 5-10 years is much to write home about though. The Lions will still have less time to adapt to conditions but it's true they will take a liking to them.

The Wallabies will obviously know every blade of grass though.

Also, the hard & fast turf is a common misunderstanding to mention these days. Just have a look at Suncorp, ANZ, Etihad... those grounds are nothing like the old SCG or Ballymore dustbowls. It's all firm and lush these days. Even Newcastle and Canberra have world class turf not too dissimilar to what you'd get at most international standard grounds in (southern) Europe or in the UK/Ireland in mid-late autumn.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Hamilton would be my first choice. Huge man who leads the lineout as a 5, but has the physicality of a 4. He's the first name on my team sheet and potential captain.

I for one am grateful that you won't be selecting then!

love you really!

I know this is your choice, but if anybody is in any doubt, Gatland will be playing Gatlandball - kick long, give nothing away, defend and try to take any resulting chances. It will be highly formulaic and will depend on every forward carrying close to the ruck, especially on the blind. Players like Hamilton and Parling are not athletic enough for Gatland.

In the backs, defence comes first, and more bosh merchants. What Gilroy doesn't have in terms of raw power can not be made for with what he does have in terms of flair. Maitland likewise. Zebo on the other hand is equally lacking in power, but has enough flair to make up for it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the centres are Barrit, Roberts, Davies and Tuilagi.

This does not invalidate your selection but does undermine it's probability of being the squad named.

I predict a first test XXIII of:

15-9 Halfpenny, Zebo, Tuilagi, Roberts, North, Farell, Phillips
1-8 Jenkins, Hibbard, Jones, Jones, Evans, Wood, Warburton (c) O'Brien
16-23 Heally, Best, Cole, Ryan, Tipuric, Murray, Twelvetrees, Davies

Personally I would go:

15-9 Halfpenny, Zebo, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Sharples, Madigan, Laidlaw
1-8 James, Hibbard, Jones, Ryan, Evans, Lydiate, Faletau, Tipuric
16-23 Duncan Jones, Best, Mitchell, Ryan Jones, Care, Biggar, Davies, Liam Williams

That's how subjective it all is

Glas

I have no doubt that you are correct mate, as Gatland does appear to favour a certain approach, which would not be personal preference. I suspect that my stall falls somewhere in between yours and Gatlands.

I have to say, I have steered clear of commenting on Lions articles over the past year, but as the tour approaches, i could not help myself but post this yesterday.

I think any of us would select the same squad as each other, but it has been great hearing peoples views on things. I just hope that whoever Gatland selects, it's a good tour, in the same vein as 1997 and 2009 as opposed to the 2005 offering.

Seriously guys? What has Zebo done?

One six nations game. Decent support from BOD genius and a lucky flick.

Best wings (in order)

Cuthbert
North
Visser
Bowe

Zebo's a decent player, but I must confess that I don't see all the fuss over him either to be honest. The one thing that may assist him with gaining a squad lace is that he appears equally comfortable on the wing or at full back.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Zebo's a decent player, but I must confess that I don't see all the fuss over him either to be honest. The one thing that may assist him with gaining a squad lace is that he appears equally comfortable on the wing or at full back.

In terms of one 6N game, I agree.

But he has been outstanding for Munster this year, unless that is just a distraction...

Glas a du wrote:I know this is your choice, but if anybody is in any doubt, Gatland will be playing Gatlandball - kick long, give nothing away, defend and try to take any resulting chances. It will be highly formulaic

Glas, you are absolutely right, altho I find it incredibly depressing - I'm not sure that Gatlandball has been proven to work against SH opposition, particularly the Aussie backline. I'm not at all convinced that a backline full of 6'4"+ players taking route one is going to win games this summer - just my view

I have a sneaky feeling that Gatland will break his mold and in the first Test he will surprise the Aussies with an all out attacking gameplan.
Once we have a 1-0 lead he will revert to the power game and grind out the series win.
My crystal ball has been known to be a tad faulty,mind!

So the same tour plan as last time then?

Quite clever... that's the last thing the Wallabies would expect.

The last two rounds of the 6N a number of the above proposed starters were "found out".

BOD looked like he was struggling to get his body through the 80mins, it was sad to see a once outstanding player who should have maybe, retired a year ago.

Farrell, who usually kicks his goals superbly and looks comfortable when getting armchair ball, looked like a little boy lost when under pressure. Good goal kicker, good tackler, not good enough 10.

Others such as Mike Ross, Barritt, Ashton, T Youngs and Hartley probably played themselves out of contention.

On the other hand:

Alan Wyn Jones, Adam Jones, Warburton, Tipuric, Biggar, Hibbard and Owens all look to be Lions in waiting.

Selection should not be based on 2 rounds of the 6 Nations though Seagultaf.

Good players do not become bad ones overnight, and similarly a couple of good performances do not guarantee a seat on the plane.

I would hope that squad selection would be based on a mixture of proven quality and current form, as well as how players will fit into the squad.

It's OK Breaker, it's a massive double bluff, were relying on the one thing we can bank on from the Aussies...

Linebreaker wrote:So the same tour plan as last time then?

Quite clever... that's the last thing the Wallabies would expect.

Was Gatland in charge last time?My bad.I thought this was his first time in charge.I should pay more attention

gleesonisgod wrote:Really don't see what the deal with Roberts is. It seems all he dose is run into people, a poor man's Tuilagi if you ask me.

In the Wales v England game Roberts ran into Tuilagi (tackled him) and stopped him in his tracks. What other centre has done that to Tuilagi recently?