British & Irish Lions - Weekly Wallaby Watch (Ioane & McCabe out of series, Barnes out of 2nd test:)

First topic message reminder :

Inevitably, there's been a ma-hoosive over-focus on these boards about whom the tourists are likely to be and little, if anything, on who the Australian test team are likely to be.

The point of this thread is to report week to week upon the players which the Sydney Morning Herald believes are the best Aussie players in each round of the Super 15, to discuss how this changes and to comment in light of these performances who the form test starters are likely to be for the Wallabies.

The Wallaby squad will be removed for all Super 15 matches on 7, 8 and 9 June in order to be 'quarantined' for 3 weeks leading up to the first test on June 22nd.

SUPER 15 MATCHES REMAINING FOR WALLABIES SQUAD UNTIL THE FIRST TEST: 0

A. WALLABIES SQUAD:

Ben Alexander	Prop	Brumbies	28	48
Adam Ashley-Cooper	Fullback-Wing-Midfield	NSW Waratahs	29	77
Berrick Barnes	Flyhalf/Inside Centre/Fullback	NSW Waratahs	27	50
Nick Cummins	Wing	Western Force	25	6
Dave Dennis	Loose Forward	NSW Waratahs	27	15
Kane Douglas	Lock	NSW Waratah	27	6
Saia Fainga’a	Hooker	Queensland Reds	26	18
Israel Folau	Fullback-Wing	NSW Waratahs	23	Uncapped
Will Genia	Halfback	Queensland Reds	25	41
Liam Gill	Flanker	Queensland Reds	20	8
Michael Hooper	Flanker	NSW Waratahs	21	13
Rob Horne	Inside Centre	NSW Waratahs	23	14
James Horwill	Lock	Queensland Reds	27	35
Sekope Kepu	Prop	NSW Waratahs	27	23
Christian Leali’ifano	Flyhalf/Inside Centre	Brumbies	25	Uncapped
Ben McCalman	Loose Forward	Western Force	25	21
Stephen Moore	Hooker	Brumbies	30	76
Ben Mowen	Loose Forward	Brumbies	28	Uncapped
James O’Connor	Flyhalf/Wing	Melbourne Rebels	22	37
Wycliff Palu	No 8	NSW Waratahs	30	46
Nick Phipps	Halfback	Melbourne Rebels	24	12
Benn Robinson	Prop	NSW Waratahs	28	56
Rob Simmons	Lock	Queensland Reds	24	23
James Slipper	Prop	Queensland Reds	23	34
Luke Morahan	Wing	Reds	23	1

B. CURRENT S15 TEAM STANDINGS (AUSTRALIA)
TeamPWLDBFA /-BnsPts

1. Brumbies	14	9	3	2	2	376	257	119	6	54
2. Reds	15	9	4	2	1	307	284	23	6	50
3. Waratahs	14	7	7	0	2	371	344	27	4	40
4. Rebels	14	4	10	0	2	327	439	-112	8	32
5. Force	14	3	10	1	2	233	323	-90	5	27

c. AUSSIE TEAM S15 RESULTS

Round 16
Crusaders v Waratahs, Full Time 23-22
Brumbies v Hurricanes, Full Time 30-23
Reds v Rebels, Full Time 33-20

Round 15
Rebels v Waratahs, Full Time 24-22
Blues v Brumbies, Full Time 13-20
Force v Highlanders, Full Time 19-18
Stormers v Reds, Full Time 20-15

Round 14
Rebels v Stormers, Full Time 30-21
Force v Sharks, Full Time 13-23
Waratahs v Brumbies, Full Time 28-22
Cheetahs v Reds, Full Time 27-13

Round 13
Chiefs v Force, Full Time 22-21
Reds v Sharks, Full Time 32-17
Blues v Rebels, Full Time 36-32
Waratahs v Stormers, Full Time 21-15

Round 12
Rebels v Chiefs, Full Time 33-39
Force v Reds, Full Time 11-11
Kings v Waratahs, Full Time 10-72
Brumbies v Crusaders, Full Time 23-30

Round 11
Reds v Blues, Full Time 12-11
Brumbies v Force, Full Time 41-7
Bulls v Waratahs, Full Time 30-19
Crusaders v Rebels, Full Time 30-26

Round 10
Hurricanes v Force, Full Time 22-16
Waratahs v Chiefs, Full Time 25-20
Reds v Brumbies, Full Time 17-17

Round 9
Highlanders v Brumbies, Full Time 19-30
Chiefs v Reds, Full Time 23-31
Rebels v Kings, Full Time 27-30
Force v Crusaders, Full Time 16-14

Round 8
Brumbies v Kings, Full Time 28-28
Hurricanes v Waratahs, Full Time 41-29
Force v Rebels, Full Time 23-30

Round 7
Highlanders v Reds, Full Time 33-34
Brumbies v Bulls, Full Time 23-20
Cheetahs v Rebels, Full Time 34-16
Waratahs v Force, Full Time 23-19

Round 6
Reds v Bulls, Full Time 23-18
Force v Cheetahs, Full Time 10-19
Sharks v Rebels, Full Time 64-7
Stormers v Brumbies, Full Time 35-22
Waratahs v Blues, Full Time 30-27

Round 5
Waratahs v Cheetahs, Full Time 26-27
Reds v Force, Full Time 12-19
Sharks v Brumbies, Full Time 10-29

Round 4
Rebels v Reds, Full Time 13-23
Brumbies v Waratahs, Full Time 35-6

Round 3
Waratahs v Rebels, Full Time 31-26
Reds v Hurricanes, Full Time 18-12
Bulls v Force, Full Time 36-26

Round 2
Rebels v Brumbies, Full Time 13-30
Reds v Waratahs, Full Time 25-17

Round 1
Rebels v Force, Full Time 30-23
Brumbies v Reds, Full Time 24-6

D. AUSSIE TEAMS OF THE WEEK

27 February 2013
1. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Scott Fardy (Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Ed Quirk (Reds)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Christian Lealifaano (Brumbies)
13. Ben Tapuai (Reds)
14. Dom Shipperley (Reds)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

7 March 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Nathan Charles (Force)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Angus Cottrell (Force)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Nick Phipps (Rebels)
10. James O'Connor (Rebels)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Ben Tapuai (Reds)
13. Mitch Inman (Rebels)
14. Nick Cummins (Force)
15. Ben Volavola (Waratahs)

11 March 2013
1. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Dan Palmer (Brumbies)
4. Scott Fardy (Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Jake Schatz (Reds)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Anthony Faingaa (Reds)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

17 March 2013
1. Scott Sio (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
4. Peter Kimlin (Brumbies)
5. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Fotu Auelua (Brumbies)
9. Alby Mathewson (Force)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealifaano (Brumbies)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (Brumbies)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

24 March 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. James Hanson (Reds)
3. Paddy Ryan (Waratahs)
4. James Horwill (Reds)
5. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
6. Dave Dennis (Waratahs)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Richard Brown (Force)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Drew Mitchell (Waratahs)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

31 March 2013
1. Scott Sio (Brumbies)
2. James Hanson (Reds)
3. Dan Palmer (Brumbies)
4. James Horwill (Reds)
5. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
6. Peter Kimlin (Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs)
8. Jake Schatz (Reds)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Bernard Foley (Waratahs)
11. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Dom Shipperley (Reds)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

9 April 2013
1. Sekope Kepu (Waratahs)
2. Ged Robinson (Rebels)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Luke Jones (Rebels)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Bernard Foley (Waratahs)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Jason Woodward (Rebels)
15. Richard Kingi (Rebels)

14 April 2013
1. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Rob Simmons (Reds)
5. James Horwill (Reds)
6. George Smith (Brumbies)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Richard Brown (Force)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Rod Davies (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Junior Rasolea (Force)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Jayden Hayward (Force)

21 April 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Heath Tessman (Force)
3. Dan Palmer (Brumbies)
4. Kane Douglas (Waratahs)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Liam Gill (Reds)
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs)
8. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Israel Folau (Waratahs)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

28 April 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Saia Faingaa (Reds)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Sam Carter (Brumbies)
6. Jarrod Saffy (Rebels)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Mitch Inman (Rebels)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

05 May 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs)
3. Sekope Kepu (Waratahs)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Dave Dennis (Waratahs)
7. Chris Alcock (Force)
8. Wycliff Palu (Waratahs)
9. Brendan McKibbin (Waratahs)
10. Bernard Foley (Waratahs)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Cam Crawford (Waratahs)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

13 May 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Sitaleki Timani (Waratahs)
5. Kane Douglas (Waratahs)
6. Dave Dennis (Waratahs)
7. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Rod Davies (Reds)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

20 May 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Laurie Weeks (Rebels)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Cadeyrn Neville (Rebels)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Alby Mathewson (Force)
10. Berrick Barnes (Waratahs)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Peter Betham (Waratahs)
15. Luke Morahan (Reds)

27 May 2013
1. Nic Henderson (Rebels)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
4. Scott Fardy (Brumbies)
5. Peter Kimlin (Brumbies)
6. Chris Alcock (Force)
7. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Mitch Inman (Rebels)
14. Tom English (Rebels)
15. Jason Woodward (Rebels)

E. SELECTED AQ PLAYER STATS TO DATE

Most Points
1. Morne Steyn (Bulls) 181
2. Gareth Anscombe (Chiefs) 163
3. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 158
4. Patrick Lambie (Sharks) 150
5. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 142
6. Joe Pietersen (Stormers) 140
7. Quade Cooper (Reds) 138
8. Demetri Catrakilis (Kings) 122
9. Brendan McKibbin (Waratahs) 120
10. James O'Connor (Rebels) 106
11. Colin Slade (Highlanders) 85
12. Chris Noakes (Blues) 76
13. Daniel Carter (Crusaders) 70
14. Sias Ebersohn (Force) 63
15. Burton Francis (Cheetahs) 62
16. Jayden Hayward (Force) 60
17. Tyler Bleyendaal (Crusaders) 58
18. Tom Taylor (Crusaders) 52
19. Jason Woodward (Rebels) 51
20. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 50

Most Tries
1. Frank Halai (Blues) 8
1. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 8
3. Henry Speight (Brumbies) 7
4. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 6
4. Tim Nanai-Williams (Chiefs) 6
6. Alfie Mafi (Force) 5
6. Cam Crawford (Waratahs) 5
6. Gareth Anscombe (Chiefs) 5
6. Hugh Pyle (Rebels) 5
6. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies) 5
6. Julian Savea (Hurricanes) 5
6. Raymond Rhule (Cheetahs) 5
6. Rod Davies (Reds) 5
6. TJ Perenara (Hurricanes) 5
6. Willie le Roux (Cheetahs) 5
16. Akona Ndungane (Bulls) 4
16. Ged Robinson (Rebels) 4
16. Hosea Gear (Highlanders) 4
16. Jean de Villiers (Stormers) 4
16. Peter Betham (Waratahs) 4

Most Tackles Made
1. Pieter Labuschagne (Cheetahs) 214
2. Wimpie van der Walt (Kings) 198
3. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 179
4. Ed Quirk (Reds) 176
5. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 174
6. Matt Todd (Crusaders) 167
7. Sam Cane (Chiefs) 163
8. John Hardie (Highlanders) 161
9. Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs) 160
9. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 160
9. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 160
9. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels) 160
13. Brodie Retallick (Chiefs) 156
13. Siyamthanda Kolisi (Stormers) 156
15. Liam Gill (Reds) 153
16. Francois Uys (Cheetahs) 152
17. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 146
18. Cornell du Preez (Kings) 145
19. George Smith (Brumbies) 144
20. Hugh Pyle (Rebels) 142

Most Runs
1. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 126
2. Charles Piutau (Blues) 119
3. Digby Ioane (Reds) 114
4. Peter Saili (Blues) 107
5. Luke Braid (Blues) 106
6. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 105
7. Hosea Gear (Highlanders) 104
7. John Hardie (Highlanders) 104
9. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 101
9. TJ Ioane (Highlanders) 101
11. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 100
11. Tom Marshall (Crusaders) 100
13. Ben McCalman (Force) 96
14. Jake Schatz (Reds) 95
15. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs) 93
15. George Whitelock (Crusaders) 93
17. Alapati Leiua (Hurricanes) 92
17. Hugh Pyle (Rebels) 92
17. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 92
17. Steven Luatua (Blues) 92

Most Try Assists
1. Bernard Foley (Waratahs) 11
2. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 7
3. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 5
3. James O'Connor (Rebels) 5
3. Quade Cooper (Reds) 5
3. Rene Ranger (Blues) 5
3. Will Genia (Reds) 5
8. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 4
8. Patrick Lambie (Sharks) 4
8. Willie le Roux (Cheetahs) 4
11. Elton Jantjies (Stormers) 3
11. Francis Saili (Blues) 3
11. Gareth Anscombe (Chiefs) 3
11. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 3
11. Johann Sadie (Cheetahs) 3
11. Matt Toomua (Brumbies) 3
11. Morne Steyn (Bulls) 3
11. Nic White (Brumbies) 3
11. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 3
11. Winston Stanley (Force) 3

Most Offloads
1. Quade Cooper (Reds) 37
2. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 30
3. Luke Braid (Blues) 22
4. Rene Ranger (Blues) 21
5. Ben Smith (Highlanders) 20
6. Meyer Bosman (Sharks) 17
6. Robert Fruean (Crusaders) 17
8. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 16
8. Francois Steyn (Sharks) 16
10. Wycliff Palu (Waratahs) 15
11. Digby Ioane (Reds) 14
11. Hosea Gear (Highlanders) 14
11. James O'Connor (Rebels) 14
14. Bernard Foley (Waratahs) 13
14. Charles Piutau (Blues) 13
14. Julian Savea (Hurricanes) 13
14. Kyle Godwin (Force) 13
14. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 13
19. John Hardie (Highlanders) 12
19. Ryan Crotty (Crusaders) 12

Most Pilfers Made
1. Liam Gill (Reds) 9
2. Rene Ranger (Blues) 8
2. Sam Cane (Chiefs) 8
4. George Smith (Brumbies) 7
5. Chris Alcock (Force) 6
5. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 6
7. John Hardie (Highlanders) 5
7. Luke Braid (Blues) 5
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 5
7. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 5
11. Alby Mathewson (Force) 4
11. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 4
11. Deon Fourie (Stormers) 4
11. Jacques Botes (Sharks) 4
11. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 4
11. Pieter Labuschagne (Cheetahs) 4
11. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs) 4
18. Meyer Bosman (Sharks) 3
18. Michael Fitzgerald (Chiefs) 3
18. Saia Faingaa (Reds) 3

Most Penalties Conceded
1. Wyatt Crockett (Crusaders) 26
2. Ben Mowen (Brumbies) 20
2. Greg Holmes (Reds) 20
4. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 19
5. Ben Alexander (Brumbies) 18
6. Ali Williams (Blues) 17
6. Ben Franks (Hurricanes) 17
6. Steven Kitshoff (Stormers) 17
9. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 16
10. Schalk Ferreira (Kings) 15
10. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 15
12. Ben Tameifuna (Chiefs) 14
12. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 14
12. Laurie Weeks (Rebels) 14
12. Pieter Labuschagne (Cheetahs) 14
12. Sam Carter (Brumbies) 14
12. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels) 14
18. Angus Ta'avao (Blues) 13
19. Deon Stegmann (Bulls) 12
19. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 12

Most Turnovers Conceded
1. Quade Cooper (Reds) 37
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies) 34
3. Adriaan Strauss (Cheetahs) 29
4. Deon Fourie (Stormers) 28
5. Raymond Rhule (Cheetahs) 27
6. Charles Piutau (Blues) 25
7. Heath Tessmann (Force) 24
7. Rene Ranger (Blues) 24
9. Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Chiefs) 23
9. Bernard Foley (Waratahs) 23
11. Digby Ioane (Reds) 22
12. Brendan McKibbin (Waratahs) 21
12. Ged Robinson (Rebels) 21
12. Hikawera Elliot (Chiefs) 21
12. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 21
12. Julian Savea (Hurricanes) 21
12. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 21
12. Nathan Charles (Force) 21
12. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 21
12. Willie le Roux (Cheetahs) 21

Most Missed Tackles
1. Chris Noakes (Blues) 31
1. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 31
3. Raymond Rhule (Cheetahs) 30
4. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 29
5. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 27
6. Mitch Inman (Rebels) 25
7. Demetri Catrakilis (Kings) 23
7. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 23
7. Pierre Spies (Bulls) 23
10. Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Chiefs) 22
10. Brad Shields (Hurricanes) 22
10. Kyle Godwin (Force) 22
10. Sergeal Petersen (Kings) 22
10. Siyamthanda Kolisi (Stormers) 22
15. Alapati Leiua (Hurricanes) 21
15. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 21
15. JJ Engelbrecht (Bulls) 21
15. Lodewyk de Jager (Cheetahs) 21
15. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 21
15. Ronnie Cooke (Kings) 21

ChequeredJersey wrote:15- Beale
14- Folau
13- AAC
12- JOC
11- Ioane
10- Cooper
9- Genia
8- Palu (unless Higginbotham is OK)
7- Hooper
6- Gill/Mowen
5- Timani
4- Horwill (c)
3- Alexander
2- Moore
1- Robinson

16- Kepu, 17- Fainga'a, 18- Slipper, 19- Simmons, 20- Gill/Mowen, 21- White, 22- Barnes/Lealiifano, 23- Tomane.

6-15 plus subs looks lethal, the front row much better than many might think, not an easy team to put away. No Cooper and JOC to 10 with Lealiifano or Barnes at 10 and JOC at 12 doesn't weaken it much either. Or if Beale doesn't make it, Folau at 15, JOC on the wing and one of those two at 12. This won't be a walkover

Although that looks good there are a lot of question marks and unknowns around that team...

Beale is definately an unknown quantity right now.

Folou untested on the int stage

AAC isn't playing that well, and hasn't he taken a knock?

JOC playing ok at best at 10, and a bit vulnerible, not the same player as previously yet!

Cooper, well we all know whats going on there

Would Hooper and Gill work??

Plus there are some limits to the bench. Fainga'a and Kepu aren't top class, Mowen looks great at club level, but how will he step up, and the backs are huge steps down from the starters.

Nic White's form's pretty good, he's a huge step down from Genia but only because of the level that Genia is at, by himself with no real rivals!

And you might think JOC's not all that at 10, as 2nd distributor at 12 his strengths are played to far more and his game management isn't an issue.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Nic White's form's pretty good, he's a huge step down from Genia but only because of the level that Genia is at, by himself with no real rivals!

Oh I agree totally, but it's still a step down. Whites been really good, but Genia is the first name on the Aus team sheet, and probably biggest threat to the lions, I'd go as far to say as without him Aus will really struggle he is that key!

ChequeredJersey wrote:And you might think JOC's not all that at 10, as 2nd distributor at 12 his strengths are played to far more and his game management isn't an issue.

Again 100% agree but when was the last time he played at 12, and on the int stage?

Still think you need to look at some of those calls Blues. Some stances youve taken are mainly dismissive purely for the sake of not wanting to consider the alternative. Take Folau. Every comment youve made about his is ' untested at test level' And thats it. Conversation over as far as youre concerned.

Yet look at the other side of the coin and query his potential. Few in rugby history would have had a better season that Folau this year as a first ever year. there are aspects about being untested that dont apply to Folau. The pressure of internationals for one. His ability to learn quickly etc.

If you're not prepared to consider the alternative then how objective are you really being here? Folau has the potential to wreck the Lions in this series and someone with your thinking will end up saying....'Oooh...didnt see that coming...'

Taylorman wrote:Still think you need to look at some of those calls Blues. Some stances youve taken are mainly dismissive purely for the sake of not wanting to consider the alternative. Take Folau. Every comment youve made about his is ' untested at test level' And thats it. Conversation over as far as youre concerned.

Yet look at the other side of the coin and query his potential. Few in rugby history would have had a better season that Folau this year as a first ever year. there are aspects about being untested that dont apply to Folau. The pressure of internationals for one. His ability to learn quickly etc.

If you're not prepared to consider the alternative then how objective are you really being here? Folau has the potential to wreck the Lions in this series and someone with your thinking will end up saying....'Oooh...didnt see that coming...'

I agree totally, he has been excellent this year, and he may well step up and prove a match winner V Lions, however there is an unquestionable question mark over him as a test player wouldn't you agree? I'm not saying he won't work, I'm not saying he can't step up but I am saying he is untested.

On it's own doesn't sound like much, but the question marks just keep piling up for Aus, and only so many can come good. RD doesn't like to take risks, and with Cooper, Beale, JOC all with injury/attitude/social problems that makes a very risky selection if all are in the first team, if the rest of the backline was tried and tested, trusted and playing well the risk might be worth it, however when you add debutants, inexperienced players and out of form players in Folou, Davies, Leilafano, AAC then the risk becomes much larger.

Please don't get me wrong I think Foloa is a good player, with a lot of potential, but a lot of his tries have been through his elusive running individually and from giveaways at club level, at test level you need so much more and for every great run he's made at club level he's made a defencive mistake, wether it be out of position at FB or missing first up tackles. So my comments are probably more toward the number of questions surrounding the Aus backline rather than the individual players

George Carlin wrote:I think that would be true to any reasoanably impartial onlooker, TM.

Unfortunately QC also gave Deans the ammunition to point out some other things like his two charged down kicks and missed penalties and I see that he has also risen back to the top of the turnover charts.

Liked Tim Horan repeating the recent Genia interview where Genia said that he plays at his best when alongside Cooper. Horan said that this should be enough to make up Dingo's mind by itself.

Yes thats true George but thats Cooper for you. He's high risk but also high octane, has the x factor and can turn a match and he showd glimpses of that. The close marking in sxv means charge downs are a dime a dozen this year.

Carter also has a long list of charge downs as do many NZ and Oz sides. But no one else stands out. Barnes is the nearest and his track record is average on the big stage as is his game lately. Cooper has one more match to impress and I think Deans is playing his cards right. Cooper said the Oz environment was toxic last year so perhaps keeping Cooper out for a little longer, let him do his own thing where he's comfortable is a good thing, instead let him focus on his own game, then haul him in.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Still think you need to look at some of those calls Blues. Some stances youve taken are mainly dismissive purely for the sake of not wanting to consider the alternative. Take Folau. Every comment youve made about his is ' untested at test level' And thats it. Conversation over as far as youre concerned.

Yet look at the other side of the coin and query his potential. Few in rugby history would have had a better season that Folau this year as a first ever year. there are aspects about being untested that dont apply to Folau. The pressure of internationals for one. His ability to learn quickly etc.

If you're not prepared to consider the alternative then how objective are you really being here? Folau has the potential to wreck the Lions in this series and someone with your thinking will end up saying....'Oooh...didnt see that coming...'

I agree totally, he has been excellent this year, and he may well step up and prove a match winner V Lions, however there is an unquestionable question mark over him as a test player wouldn't you agree? I'm not saying he won't work, I'm not saying he can't step up but I am saying he is untested.

On it's own doesn't sound like much, but the question marks just keep piling up for Aus, and only so many can come good. RD doesn't like to take risks, and with Cooper, Beale, JOC all with injury/attitude/social problems that makes a very risky selection if all are in the first team, if the rest of the backline was tried and tested, trusted and playing well the risk might be worth it, however when you add debutants, inexperienced players and out of form players in Folou, Davies, Leilafano, AAC then the risk becomes much larger.

Please don't get me wrong I think Foloa is a good player, with a lot of potential, but a lot of his tries have been through his elusive running individually and from giveaways at club level, at test level you need so much more and for every great run he's made at club level he's made a defencive mistake, wether it be out of position at FB or missing first up tackles. So my comments are probably more toward the number of questions surrounding the Aus backline rather than the individual players

Fair comment. For me I don't see the risk so much as the potential. As of right now I see all of Cooper, Genia, JOC, Beale and Folau as critical to winning this series. With Beales 80 minutes yesterday and Coopers obvious form and confedence, despite the odd yips, theyre looking good.

Sure Folau's tries and effort has been in club rugby but thats slightly dismissive as well. The 'club' opposition is mainy against current or aspiring ABs, Boks or fellow Wallaby players- the best of the top 3 nations, and in that company, he's outperforming most of them. In that respect you could say the Lions standard drops a little being largely selected from 4 and below so there is a little discrepancy there. the Lions players havnt been playing top 3 ranked or potential players all year- Folau has.

But thats the usual NH SH thing but for me is as important as anything else, as the most important thing- the test scores support it ultimately.

Anyway.. Things are heating up on that front...looking forward to a massive few weeks as no doubt you are and we have our little matter of the French to sort out as well...


But point taken, I just think looking at the Oz side in terms of risk rather than potential, from a glass is half empty rather than half full is something some in the Lions camp can definitely not afford to do.

Taylor - the French are even more of a basket case at present than they usually are - I foresee no problems for you boys. They didn't come bottom of this year's Six Nations table for no reason. What they would give for a 10 as consistent as Carter or Cruden.

George our experience is if the French were anywhere near as consistent as they should be we probably wouldnt have lost the matches we have. Its their inconsistency and that alone that gets us. (Well that and an inconsistent Michelak forward pass at times)!

Further injury update from Super15.com:

Australia's Wallabies have been force to make changes to their squad for the British and Irish Lions due to injuries from Super Rugby.

Winger Digby Ioane, lock Sitaleki Timani and backrower Scott Higginbotham were all removed from the squad which assembled in Sydney on Sunday ahead of the first test in Brisbane on June 22..

Melbourne Rebels scrumhalf Nick Phipps, Waratahs lock Kane Douglas and Western Force loose forward Ben McCalman were named to take their places.

Timani left the field with a suspected broken thumb during the New South Wales Waratahs' loss to the Crusaders in Christchurch on Friday, opening a place for Douglas who played his first test against Argentina on the Gold Coast last year.

Melbourne captain Higginbotham dislocated a shoulder during the Rebels' match against the Queensland Reds on Saturday. His absence allows McCalman to re-join the Wallabies sqaud after a 12-month absence, having missed all of last year's test season due to injury.

The 25-year-old McCalman recently made his 50th Super Rugby appearance for the Western Force but will likely miss the Lions' Australian tour-opener against the Force in Perth on Wednesday.

Ioane last week underwent an operation to mend an articular cartilage complaint in his left knee.

"Digby is unable to train. His focus is on getting his knee right, which is why we've chosen to bring him in anyway, so we our medical staff can oversee the process," coach Robbie Deans said.

"His absence from training opened up the opportunity to add another player. Nick (Phipps) has been playing well, has background with us through his experience last year and is a player who was always in our thoughts."

Deans said Nic White could yet be added to the squad as a third scrumhalf option after Phipps and Will Genia.

Phipps described the call up as a "pleasant surprise", admitting he felt he had "left my run too late" after starring in the Rebels' upset win over the Stormers of South Africa two days before the preliminary Wallabies squad was named.

"I'd been going okay, but felt my performance in that game, after I got on, was a step up from where I'd been," Phipps said. "Possibly I'd been trying a bit too hard.

"I've really enjoyed my time with the Wallabies, especially last year when I got a few starts, and was pretty keen to get back there."

Higginbotham would be a massive loss he has been one of the best players to watch in the Super XV this season.

Cooper played his usual game. Had a couple of shockers - charge downs that led to tries but also pulled off some good plays. The difference this year is that despite being at fault for both tries early in the game he didn't drop his head. The Cooper of before would've let it get to him and continued playing badly.

Just watched a replay of the Crusaders v Waratahs and saw the Tah's 7 Michael Hooper skin Israel Dagg. Completely stood him up. An in-and-away and he left Dagg for dead. Apparently he is the fastest player in the Wallaby squad over 40m.

ICU - I just Googled "Avoca Beach, NSW".

You lucky barsteward.

The injuries are a real shame as you want to see the best Lions side possible against the best Aus side. The Lions are doing pretty well in this respect with Ferris and Rennie the only really notable absentees IMO, but Oz are struggling in some regards. I would've loved to see the below side running out for the first test even if it meant a very tough match for the Lions.

1.Robinson 2.Moore 3.Alexander 4.Timani 5.Horwill 6.Hooper 7.Pocock 8.Palu/Higginbotham
9.Genia 10.Cooper 11.Ioane 12.O'Connor 13.AAC 14.Folau 15.Beale

Hopefully Beale and Cooper come back for the series and if Palu and Simmons step up Higginbotham and Timani could be covered for. Ioane and AAC would really be missed in the tests though especially with Drew Mitchell struggling since injury.

9.Genia 10.Cooper 11.Cummins 12.Lealiifano 13.JOC 14.Folau 15.Beale

The above would still look pretty dangerous to be fair though!

NO NOT HIGGINBOTHAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is probably the second best player in Oz at the moment

I hope - though I doubt - most of the injured Wallabies will be back in action and back in real form by the Lions tests. If the Lions are supposed to represent the best of the Home Nations, then I would want to play the best the Wallabies have to offer.

Hi ya Doc...dislocated shoulder...Higginbotham still hopes to play...how realistic is that with the time left? They just pop it back in don't they? Bit of damage to the tendons which need to mend/ reattach (without being too med. tech for you... ) How many weeks?

Hey Taylor,
Sorry to cop out a bit, but whether Higginbotham can return in time to play the Lions depends on the severity of the dislocation. Most dislocations are actually partial dislocations (subluxations). These occur when the top of the arm bone is only slightly out of the shoulder joint socket. And, you are right, these are the ones which can be snapped back into place, albeit with some ligament or tendon damage. If the damage to the joint, ligament, or tendon is minor then a few weeks out should be sufficient. These are the most common type. A full dislocation is a mess and requires surgery and a lot of rehab. Most dislocations are the result of rotation of the upper arm.

I had thought it was a separation when I saw it on tv, because it appeared to be a direct trauma injury. Separations are damage to the small joint/gap between the collarbone (clavicle) and the shoulder blade.

His scan is Monday. So, let's hope for the best.
He is a very good player and I would want to see him playing the Lions.

Cool thanks Doc...yes he's been in peak form lately with the right attitude to boot and was to be the true aggressor for Oz this year I thought. With this he can't be better than he would have been but heres hoping.

He said yesterday that it popped back in almost immediately... so just wondering how much damage was done?

Can our Aussie brethren keep us up to date on injuries to the Wallabies?

They've ruled out Timani, but not yet Higginbotham. More scans later in week.

http://www.rugby.com.au/wallabies/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1516/ArticleID/9379/Default.aspx

Linebreaker wrote:He said yesterday that it popped back in almost immediately... so just wondering how much damage was done?

Hopefully, not so much. Please keep in mind that a lot of times the patient is the worst witness.

Besides he has every incentive to lie through his teeth because he wants to play. Athletes have been bending the truth about injuries since the beginning of time. And for the record, to represent my country, I would lie straight on with all the sincerity and innocence I could muster. And, why not?

Totally true Doc.

I notice that Beale is back with the full Wallaby squad now, which is very good news.

Beale was a gimme...Cooper has to be next after his trial for the Reds whenever that is...especially with these injuries- even as a precaution- if theres one thing they will have learned from last year is experience is critical, no more truer now...

As for Ioane, you don't rush knees- sure career enders when they keep going...

Taylorman wrote:Beale was a gimme...Cooper has to be next after his trial for the Reds whenever that is...especially with these injuries- even as a precaution- if theres one thing they will have learned from last year is experience is critical, no more truer now...

As for Ioane, you don't rush knees- sure career enders when they keep going...

Who will come in for Higg and Ioane then? Mitchell has been awfull, English?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Beale was a gimme...Cooper has to be next after his trial for the Reds whenever that is...especially with these injuries- even as a precaution- if theres one thing they will have learned from last year is experience is critical, no more truer now...

As for Ioane, you don't rush knees- sure career enders when they keep going...

Who will come in for Higg and Ioane then? Mitchell has been awfull, English?

Auelua will come in at 8 but he can't last more than an hour. Mowen is actually the best bet for 8 now, I think - they may be tempted to put Gill at 7 and Hooper at 6. I don't think that Jake Schatz from the Reds is international quality.

Wing is less of a problem - quite a bit of depth and guys in good form. I would choose Mafi or Rod Davies, both of whom have had good seasons so far.

They could always put Folau or JOC at wing

George Carlin wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Beale was a gimme...Cooper has to be next after his trial for the Reds whenever that is...especially with these injuries- even as a precaution- if theres one thing they will have learned from last year is experience is critical, no more truer now...

As for Ioane, you don't rush knees- sure career enders when they keep going...

Who will come in for Higg and Ioane then? Mitchell has been awfull, English?

Auelua will come in at 8 but he can't last more than an hour. Mowen is actually the best bet for 8 now, I think - they may be tempted to put Gill at 7 and Hooper at 6. I don't think that Jake Schatz from the Reds is international quality.

Wing is less of a problem - quite a bit of depth and guys in good form. I would choose Mafi or Rod Davies, both of whom have had good seasons so far.

Davies is already in the squad though.

Mowen would be a bit immobile for 8 wouldn't he? He has some great qualities but I'm not sure if 8 would suit him on the int stage!

He just has to fill in though, as surely Palu is now 1st choice 8?

ChequeredJersey wrote:He just has to fill in though, as surely Palu is now 1st choice 8?

Reduces options off bench though. Higg and genia were first names on the team sheet, if anything happens to Genia...

George,

It's Sitaleki Timani who has buggered up his thumb.... not Joe Tomane.

I'll fix the OP.

Linebreaker wrote:George,

It's Sitaleki Timani who has buggered up his thumb.... not Joe Tomane.

I'll fix the OP.

Close friends say I've been overworking...

It's our fault for having players with phonetically similar names...

BBC is reporting that Scott Higinbotham is out of the test series as his separated shoulder needs surgery. Ioane will be out for at least the first test. No recent updates on George Smith but early reports suggest he'll be out for at least the first test.

Noted a Michael Lynagh interview with TalkSport saying that injuries could mean the Lions sweep the series.

George Carlin wrote:BBC is reporting that Scott Higinbotham is out of the test series as his separated shoulder needs surgery. Ioane will be out for at least the first test. No recent updates on George Smith but early reports suggest he'll be out for at least the first test.

Noted a Michael Lynagh interview with TalkSport saying that injuries could mean the Lions sweep the series.

Personally if there had been no injuries to either squad (I know it never happens!) in the Test Series I would have put Australia as favourites these key injuries have swung it in favour of the Lions.

George Carlin wrote:BBC is reporting that Scott Higinbotham is out of the test series as his separated shoulder needs surgery. Ioane will be out for at least the first test. No recent updates on George Smith but early reports suggest he'll be out for at least the first test.

Noted a Michael Lynagh interview with TalkSport saying that injuries could mean the Lions sweep the series.

Did the BBC article report the injury as a separation of still the dislocation?

doctor_grey wrote:

George Carlin wrote:BBC is reporting that Scott Higinbotham is out of the test series as his separated shoulder needs surgery. Ioane will be out for at least the first test. No recent updates on George Smith but early reports suggest he'll be out for at least the first test.

Noted a Michael Lynagh interview with TalkSport saying that injuries could mean the Lions sweep the series.

Did the BBC article report the injury as a separation of still the dislocation?

Can't recall Doc but now all reports are saying that regardless of the precise nature of the trauma suffered, a complete shoulder reconstruction is required.

A complete reconstruction? Holy merde. That's bad.
When I saw the injury happen on tv, he was clearly in pain. The report of a dislocation didn't make sense to me, but I wan't thinking total reconstruction.

Unfortunately, the medical lesson, as ever, is don't rely on the pitch-side diagnoses by team docs and physios. Alwyas get the scans and use objective results. Unless very obvious. And that's a lesson I still need to beat into my increasingly jelly-like mind from time to time.

Shame.

Real shame higginbotham is out - been in seriously good form the last couple months. I honestly dont think deans was going to start with him as palu is a cert at 8, unless he gets injured. Also get the feeling dennis or mowen would have started ahead of him at 6 in similar logic to not having cooper in the squad....

overall injuries are impacting australia more than lions...

littlejohn wrote:Real shame higginbotham is out - been in seriously good form the last couple months. I honestly dont think deans was going to start with him as palu is a cert at 8, unless he gets injured. Also get the feeling dennis or mowen would have started ahead of him at 6 in similar logic to not having cooper in the squad....

overall injuries are impacting australia more than lions...

Yep. Pre-tour I was predicting an Aus 2-1 series win. Now I'm thinking 2-1 Lions. Though if Sexton gets injured I'll likely change my mind again (every other position the Lions have cover that's almost as good as the incumbent)

Although if Sexton does get injured i'd expect johnny w to fly in and start ahead of farrell.

Looking forward to watching cooper v lions on saturday. Wonder if he will stay in the ten channel to defend and of course without genia his game never seems the same. BIG challenge for him!!!

Australian news is reporting ahead of the formal announcement on Monday that Quade Cooper will not be part of the Wallabies squad for the first test against the Lions.

In addition to Kurtley Beale whom Deans has already said will be included, centre Pat McCabe, scrum half Luke Burgess, back-rower Peter Kimlin and prop Scott Sio all joined the Wallabies training squad today - indicating strongly that these will be the additions that Deans has spoken about.

Can I just say on behalf of what I believe is the majority of Lions fans:

That's good news. Don't think anyone he has called up is the best option for them in that position at all (except Beale)

George Carlin wrote:Australian news is reporting ahead of the formal announcement on Monday that Quade Cooper will not be part of the Wallabies squad for the first test against the Lions.

In addition to Kurtley Beale whom Deans has already said will be included, centre Pat McCabe, scrum half Luke Burgess, back-rower Peter Kimlin and prop Scott Sio all joined the Wallabies training squad today - indicating strongly that these will be the additions that Deans has spoken about.

Can I just say on behalf of what I believe is the majority of Lions fans:

If thats the case I'm disappointed. As a Lions fan I want to see the strongest 15 line up - Cooper to me did more than enough for the reds v the Lions. He fronted up in the tackle and didn't make too many mistakes either. It proves without a doubt that Deans will not forgive him and until he goes Cooper will not feature in the squad.

I'm disappointed Cooper wasn't selected too. There is no doubt he is an exciting player and would have been good to watch but I still think Cooper at 10 would have played into the Lions hands despite his decent performance for the Reds.

I don't accept that Deans didn't select him because he doesn't "forgive him" while that may have at one stage been a factor I think that Cooper just doesn't fit into Deans' game plan any more.

Given that half of Australia practically worships the guy it seems, or down to 25% now if you believe one recent survey, I commend Deans for resisting temptation to please the masses. Lets hope it wont be used as a stick to beat him with or an excuse for failure if Australia lose the series.

Any chance that Cooper may be called up after the first test must surely now be gone after his latest display of stupidity in getting ejected from a Brisbane pub for being intoxicated and causing a scene.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/wallabies-reject-quade-coopers-bad-day-ends-with-pub-incident/story-e6frg7o6-1226660987983

His defence is suspect but its a bad move. efore the match I thought deans was brave and probably right. After watching the reds match I realised that whilst you may not want to start him, but you need him in reserve just in case...what he is certain to do is to give AUS chances.

What if the lions wipe the floor with AUS in the first test.... Do AUS just play the same game and hope that they can have a better day???

Had the reds had a functioning lineout I think they would have won the game on the weekend... The reds just couldn't compete... Every penalty out of range was 30 metres back as where is should have been. Even with that and the poor weather they got very close.

Had even Ioane played I think the lions would have been in trouble as he and cooper have a very good understanding of each other.

If AUS need to go for broke you need Cooper. I think it's a decision which if it goes wrongly for deans.... Will cost him his job.

Personally I still think AUS are still favourites to win the series...when I saw chaps like genia just wanting to be be on the field and being the waterboy showed how much they are up for it.

gatland will go Phillips against Genia which is a bad move IMO. Youngs has always troubled Genia, he has the skills to go toe to toe..... Phillips is just a different type of player and one that Genia always gets the better of.

Lions win the first test, Deans comes crying back to Cooper?