British & Irish Lions - Weekly Wallaby Watch (Ioane & McCabe out of series, Barnes out of 2nd test:)

First topic message reminder :

Inevitably, there's been a ma-hoosive over-focus on these boards about whom the tourists are likely to be and little, if anything, on who the Australian test team are likely to be.

The point of this thread is to report week to week upon the players which the Sydney Morning Herald believes are the best Aussie players in each round of the Super 15, to discuss how this changes and to comment in light of these performances who the form test starters are likely to be for the Wallabies.

The Wallaby squad will be removed for all Super 15 matches on 7, 8 and 9 June in order to be 'quarantined' for 3 weeks leading up to the first test on June 22nd.

SUPER 15 MATCHES REMAINING FOR WALLABIES SQUAD UNTIL THE FIRST TEST: 0

A. WALLABIES SQUAD:

Ben Alexander	Prop	Brumbies	28	48
Adam Ashley-Cooper	Fullback-Wing-Midfield	NSW Waratahs	29	77
Berrick Barnes	Flyhalf/Inside Centre/Fullback	NSW Waratahs	27	50
Nick Cummins	Wing	Western Force	25	6
Dave Dennis	Loose Forward	NSW Waratahs	27	15
Kane Douglas	Lock	NSW Waratah	27	6
Saia Fainga’a	Hooker	Queensland Reds	26	18
Israel Folau	Fullback-Wing	NSW Waratahs	23	Uncapped
Will Genia	Halfback	Queensland Reds	25	41
Liam Gill	Flanker	Queensland Reds	20	8
Michael Hooper	Flanker	NSW Waratahs	21	13
Rob Horne	Inside Centre	NSW Waratahs	23	14
James Horwill	Lock	Queensland Reds	27	35
Sekope Kepu	Prop	NSW Waratahs	27	23
Christian Leali’ifano	Flyhalf/Inside Centre	Brumbies	25	Uncapped
Ben McCalman	Loose Forward	Western Force	25	21
Stephen Moore	Hooker	Brumbies	30	76
Ben Mowen	Loose Forward	Brumbies	28	Uncapped
James O’Connor	Flyhalf/Wing	Melbourne Rebels	22	37
Wycliff Palu	No 8	NSW Waratahs	30	46
Nick Phipps	Halfback	Melbourne Rebels	24	12
Benn Robinson	Prop	NSW Waratahs	28	56
Rob Simmons	Lock	Queensland Reds	24	23
James Slipper	Prop	Queensland Reds	23	34
Luke Morahan	Wing	Reds	23	1

B. CURRENT S15 TEAM STANDINGS (AUSTRALIA)
TeamPWLDBFA /-BnsPts

1. Brumbies	14	9	3	2	2	376	257	119	6	54
2. Reds	15	9	4	2	1	307	284	23	6	50
3. Waratahs	14	7	7	0	2	371	344	27	4	40
4. Rebels	14	4	10	0	2	327	439	-112	8	32
5. Force	14	3	10	1	2	233	323	-90	5	27

c. AUSSIE TEAM S15 RESULTS

Round 16
Crusaders v Waratahs, Full Time 23-22
Brumbies v Hurricanes, Full Time 30-23
Reds v Rebels, Full Time 33-20

Round 15
Rebels v Waratahs, Full Time 24-22
Blues v Brumbies, Full Time 13-20
Force v Highlanders, Full Time 19-18
Stormers v Reds, Full Time 20-15

Round 14
Rebels v Stormers, Full Time 30-21
Force v Sharks, Full Time 13-23
Waratahs v Brumbies, Full Time 28-22
Cheetahs v Reds, Full Time 27-13

Round 13
Chiefs v Force, Full Time 22-21
Reds v Sharks, Full Time 32-17
Blues v Rebels, Full Time 36-32
Waratahs v Stormers, Full Time 21-15

Round 12
Rebels v Chiefs, Full Time 33-39
Force v Reds, Full Time 11-11
Kings v Waratahs, Full Time 10-72
Brumbies v Crusaders, Full Time 23-30

Round 11
Reds v Blues, Full Time 12-11
Brumbies v Force, Full Time 41-7
Bulls v Waratahs, Full Time 30-19
Crusaders v Rebels, Full Time 30-26

Round 10
Hurricanes v Force, Full Time 22-16
Waratahs v Chiefs, Full Time 25-20
Reds v Brumbies, Full Time 17-17

Round 9
Highlanders v Brumbies, Full Time 19-30
Chiefs v Reds, Full Time 23-31
Rebels v Kings, Full Time 27-30
Force v Crusaders, Full Time 16-14

Round 8
Brumbies v Kings, Full Time 28-28
Hurricanes v Waratahs, Full Time 41-29
Force v Rebels, Full Time 23-30

Round 7
Highlanders v Reds, Full Time 33-34
Brumbies v Bulls, Full Time 23-20
Cheetahs v Rebels, Full Time 34-16
Waratahs v Force, Full Time 23-19

Round 6
Reds v Bulls, Full Time 23-18
Force v Cheetahs, Full Time 10-19
Sharks v Rebels, Full Time 64-7
Stormers v Brumbies, Full Time 35-22
Waratahs v Blues, Full Time 30-27

Round 5
Waratahs v Cheetahs, Full Time 26-27
Reds v Force, Full Time 12-19
Sharks v Brumbies, Full Time 10-29

Round 4
Rebels v Reds, Full Time 13-23
Brumbies v Waratahs, Full Time 35-6

Round 3
Waratahs v Rebels, Full Time 31-26
Reds v Hurricanes, Full Time 18-12
Bulls v Force, Full Time 36-26

Round 2
Rebels v Brumbies, Full Time 13-30
Reds v Waratahs, Full Time 25-17

Round 1
Rebels v Force, Full Time 30-23
Brumbies v Reds, Full Time 24-6

D. AUSSIE TEAMS OF THE WEEK

27 February 2013
1. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Scott Fardy (Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Ed Quirk (Reds)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Christian Lealifaano (Brumbies)
13. Ben Tapuai (Reds)
14. Dom Shipperley (Reds)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

7 March 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Nathan Charles (Force)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Angus Cottrell (Force)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Nick Phipps (Rebels)
10. James O'Connor (Rebels)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Ben Tapuai (Reds)
13. Mitch Inman (Rebels)
14. Nick Cummins (Force)
15. Ben Volavola (Waratahs)

11 March 2013
1. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Dan Palmer (Brumbies)
4. Scott Fardy (Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Jake Schatz (Reds)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Anthony Faingaa (Reds)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

17 March 2013
1. Scott Sio (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
4. Peter Kimlin (Brumbies)
5. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Fotu Auelua (Brumbies)
9. Alby Mathewson (Force)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealifaano (Brumbies)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (Brumbies)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

24 March 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. James Hanson (Reds)
3. Paddy Ryan (Waratahs)
4. James Horwill (Reds)
5. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
6. Dave Dennis (Waratahs)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Richard Brown (Force)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Drew Mitchell (Waratahs)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

31 March 2013
1. Scott Sio (Brumbies)
2. James Hanson (Reds)
3. Dan Palmer (Brumbies)
4. James Horwill (Reds)
5. Hugh McMeniman (Force)
6. Peter Kimlin (Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs)
8. Jake Schatz (Reds)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Bernard Foley (Waratahs)
11. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Dom Shipperley (Reds)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

9 April 2013
1. Sekope Kepu (Waratahs)
2. Ged Robinson (Rebels)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Luke Jones (Rebels)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Bernard Foley (Waratahs)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Jason Woodward (Rebels)
15. Richard Kingi (Rebels)

14 April 2013
1. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Rob Simmons (Reds)
5. James Horwill (Reds)
6. George Smith (Brumbies)
7. Liam Gill (Reds)
8. Richard Brown (Force)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Rod Davies (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Junior Rasolea (Force)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Jayden Hayward (Force)

21 April 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Heath Tessman (Force)
3. Dan Palmer (Brumbies)
4. Kane Douglas (Waratahs)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Liam Gill (Reds)
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs)
8. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Israel Folau (Waratahs)
15. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies)

28 April 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Saia Faingaa (Reds)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Sam Carter (Brumbies)
6. Jarrod Saffy (Rebels)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Mitch Inman (Rebels)
14. Henry Speight (Brumbies)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

05 May 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs)
3. Sekope Kepu (Waratahs)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Rob Simmons (Reds)
6. Dave Dennis (Waratahs)
7. Chris Alcock (Force)
8. Wycliff Palu (Waratahs)
9. Brendan McKibbin (Waratahs)
10. Bernard Foley (Waratahs)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Cam Crawford (Waratahs)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

13 May 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Saia Fainga'a (Reds)
3. James Slipper (Reds)
4. Sitaleki Timani (Waratahs)
5. Kane Douglas (Waratahs)
6. Dave Dennis (Waratahs)
7. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Rod Davies (Reds)
15. Israel Folau (Waratahs)

20 May 2013
1. Benn Robinson (Waratahs)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Laurie Weeks (Rebels)
4. Hugh Pyle (Rebels)
5. Cadeyrn Neville (Rebels)
6. Ben Mowen (Brumbies)
7. George Smith (Brumbies)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Alby Mathewson (Force)
10. Berrick Barnes (Waratahs)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
12. Kyle Godwin (Force)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs)
14. Peter Betham (Waratahs)
15. Luke Morahan (Reds)

27 May 2013
1. Nic Henderson (Rebels)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
4. Scott Fardy (Brumbies)
5. Peter Kimlin (Brumbies)
6. Chris Alcock (Force)
7. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels)
8. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels)
9. Nic White (Brumbies)
10. Matt Toomua (Brumbies)
11. Joe Tomane (Brumbies)
12. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies)
13. Mitch Inman (Rebels)
14. Tom English (Rebels)
15. Jason Woodward (Rebels)

E. SELECTED AQ PLAYER STATS TO DATE

Most Points
1. Morne Steyn (Bulls) 181
2. Gareth Anscombe (Chiefs) 163
3. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 158
4. Patrick Lambie (Sharks) 150
5. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 142
6. Joe Pietersen (Stormers) 140
7. Quade Cooper (Reds) 138
8. Demetri Catrakilis (Kings) 122
9. Brendan McKibbin (Waratahs) 120
10. James O'Connor (Rebels) 106
11. Colin Slade (Highlanders) 85
12. Chris Noakes (Blues) 76
13. Daniel Carter (Crusaders) 70
14. Sias Ebersohn (Force) 63
15. Burton Francis (Cheetahs) 62
16. Jayden Hayward (Force) 60
17. Tyler Bleyendaal (Crusaders) 58
18. Tom Taylor (Crusaders) 52
19. Jason Woodward (Rebels) 51
20. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 50

Most Tries
1. Frank Halai (Blues) 8
1. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 8
3. Henry Speight (Brumbies) 7
4. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 6
4. Tim Nanai-Williams (Chiefs) 6
6. Alfie Mafi (Force) 5
6. Cam Crawford (Waratahs) 5
6. Gareth Anscombe (Chiefs) 5
6. Hugh Pyle (Rebels) 5
6. Jesse Mogg (Brumbies) 5
6. Julian Savea (Hurricanes) 5
6. Raymond Rhule (Cheetahs) 5
6. Rod Davies (Reds) 5
6. TJ Perenara (Hurricanes) 5
6. Willie le Roux (Cheetahs) 5
16. Akona Ndungane (Bulls) 4
16. Ged Robinson (Rebels) 4
16. Hosea Gear (Highlanders) 4
16. Jean de Villiers (Stormers) 4
16. Peter Betham (Waratahs) 4

Most Tackles Made
1. Pieter Labuschagne (Cheetahs) 214
2. Wimpie van der Walt (Kings) 198
3. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 179
4. Ed Quirk (Reds) 176
5. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 174
6. Matt Todd (Crusaders) 167
7. Sam Cane (Chiefs) 163
8. John Hardie (Highlanders) 161
9. Heinrich Brussow (Cheetahs) 160
9. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 160
9. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 160
9. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels) 160
13. Brodie Retallick (Chiefs) 156
13. Siyamthanda Kolisi (Stormers) 156
15. Liam Gill (Reds) 153
16. Francois Uys (Cheetahs) 152
17. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 146
18. Cornell du Preez (Kings) 145
19. George Smith (Brumbies) 144
20. Hugh Pyle (Rebels) 142

Most Runs
1. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 126
2. Charles Piutau (Blues) 119
3. Digby Ioane (Reds) 114
4. Peter Saili (Blues) 107
5. Luke Braid (Blues) 106
6. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 105
7. Hosea Gear (Highlanders) 104
7. John Hardie (Highlanders) 104
9. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 101
9. TJ Ioane (Highlanders) 101
11. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 100
11. Tom Marshall (Crusaders) 100
13. Ben McCalman (Force) 96
14. Jake Schatz (Reds) 95
15. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Waratahs) 93
15. George Whitelock (Crusaders) 93
17. Alapati Leiua (Hurricanes) 92
17. Hugh Pyle (Rebels) 92
17. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 92
17. Steven Luatua (Blues) 92

Most Try Assists
1. Bernard Foley (Waratahs) 11
2. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 7
3. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 5
3. James O'Connor (Rebels) 5
3. Quade Cooper (Reds) 5
3. Rene Ranger (Blues) 5
3. Will Genia (Reds) 5
8. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 4
8. Patrick Lambie (Sharks) 4
8. Willie le Roux (Cheetahs) 4
11. Elton Jantjies (Stormers) 3
11. Francis Saili (Blues) 3
11. Gareth Anscombe (Chiefs) 3
11. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 3
11. Johann Sadie (Cheetahs) 3
11. Matt Toomua (Brumbies) 3
11. Morne Steyn (Bulls) 3
11. Nic White (Brumbies) 3
11. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 3
11. Winston Stanley (Force) 3

Most Offloads
1. Quade Cooper (Reds) 37
2. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 30
3. Luke Braid (Blues) 22
4. Rene Ranger (Blues) 21
5. Ben Smith (Highlanders) 20
6. Meyer Bosman (Sharks) 17
6. Robert Fruean (Crusaders) 17
8. Aaron Cruden (Chiefs) 16
8. Francois Steyn (Sharks) 16
10. Wycliff Palu (Waratahs) 15
11. Digby Ioane (Reds) 14
11. Hosea Gear (Highlanders) 14
11. James O'Connor (Rebels) 14
14. Bernard Foley (Waratahs) 13
14. Charles Piutau (Blues) 13
14. Julian Savea (Hurricanes) 13
14. Kyle Godwin (Force) 13
14. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 13
19. John Hardie (Highlanders) 12
19. Ryan Crotty (Crusaders) 12

Most Pilfers Made
1. Liam Gill (Reds) 9
2. Rene Ranger (Blues) 8
2. Sam Cane (Chiefs) 8
4. George Smith (Brumbies) 7
5. Chris Alcock (Force) 6
5. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 6
7. John Hardie (Highlanders) 5
7. Luke Braid (Blues) 5
7. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 5
7. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 5
11. Alby Mathewson (Force) 4
11. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 4
11. Deon Fourie (Stormers) 4
11. Jacques Botes (Sharks) 4
11. Nick Phipps (Rebels) 4
11. Pieter Labuschagne (Cheetahs) 4
11. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs) 4
18. Meyer Bosman (Sharks) 3
18. Michael Fitzgerald (Chiefs) 3
18. Saia Faingaa (Reds) 3

Most Penalties Conceded
1. Wyatt Crockett (Crusaders) 26
2. Ben Mowen (Brumbies) 20
2. Greg Holmes (Reds) 20
4. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 19
5. Ben Alexander (Brumbies) 18
6. Ali Williams (Blues) 17
6. Ben Franks (Hurricanes) 17
6. Steven Kitshoff (Stormers) 17
9. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 16
10. Schalk Ferreira (Kings) 15
10. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 15
12. Ben Tameifuna (Chiefs) 14
12. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 14
12. Laurie Weeks (Rebels) 14
12. Pieter Labuschagne (Cheetahs) 14
12. Sam Carter (Brumbies) 14
12. Scott Fuglistaller (Rebels) 14
18. Angus Ta'avao (Blues) 13
19. Deon Stegmann (Bulls) 12
19. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 12

Most Turnovers Conceded
1. Quade Cooper (Reds) 37
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies) 34
3. Adriaan Strauss (Cheetahs) 29
4. Deon Fourie (Stormers) 28
5. Raymond Rhule (Cheetahs) 27
6. Charles Piutau (Blues) 25
7. Heath Tessmann (Force) 24
7. Rene Ranger (Blues) 24
9. Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Chiefs) 23
9. Bernard Foley (Waratahs) 23
11. Digby Ioane (Reds) 22
12. Brendan McKibbin (Waratahs) 21
12. Ged Robinson (Rebels) 21
12. Hikawera Elliot (Chiefs) 21
12. Israel Folau (Waratahs) 21
12. Julian Savea (Hurricanes) 21
12. Liam Messam (Chiefs) 21
12. Nathan Charles (Force) 21
12. Scott Higginbotham (Rebels) 21
12. Willie le Roux (Cheetahs) 21

Most Missed Tackles
1. Chris Noakes (Blues) 31
1. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 31
3. Raymond Rhule (Cheetahs) 30
4. Michael Hooper (Waratahs) 29
5. Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes) 27
6. Mitch Inman (Rebels) 25
7. Demetri Catrakilis (Kings) 23
7. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 23
7. Pierre Spies (Bulls) 23
10. Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Chiefs) 22
10. Brad Shields (Hurricanes) 22
10. Kyle Godwin (Force) 22
10. Sergeal Petersen (Kings) 22
10. Siyamthanda Kolisi (Stormers) 22
15. Alapati Leiua (Hurricanes) 21
15. Christian Lealiifano (Brumbies) 21
15. JJ Engelbrecht (Bulls) 21
15. Lodewyk de Jager (Cheetahs) 21
15. Phillip van der Walt (Cheetahs) 21
15. Ronnie Cooke (Kings) 21

OP updated for Round 8 - a mixed bag for the Aussie teams:

Brumbies conceded a try in the 84th minute to lose a win right at the death. Lealiifano is shaping to be one of the best kickers in the league, Smith led the carries with 12 and Tomane was feisty but they kept losing control of the ball and just didn't get it done in a match where they were supposed to deliver something of a hammering.

Hooper and Foley were excellent, but the Tahs got steamrollered by man of the match Julian Savea in the second half of their game against the Hurricanes. They got crushed under a second half try deluge - something that Lions fans will notice - a power game is difficult to defend against.

Rebels eventually got the win that they were desperate for against the Force.

Nice article from Cully @ SMH about the Wallabies' problem at 10:

It's a numbers game, so it's time to nail down No. 10
Date: 8 April

Paul Cully
Rugby columnist

Two months into the Super Rugby season, and with just two months to go before the first British and Irish Lions Test, and it is hard to find a leading candidate for the Wallabies No.10 jersey that is consistently playing at five-eighth.

James O'Connor has spent most of his time at No.15, Kurtley Beale has pressed self-destruct, Berrick Barnes is crook and Christian Lealiifano has spent the majority of the season at No.12. Quade Cooper is his own special case. He's wearing No.10 but playing at No.15 in defence and, after the Rugby World Cup experience in 2011, Robbie Deans is about as likely to write a glowing foreword for a Steve Hansen book than go down that path again. If Cooper does regain the Wallabies jersey, he'll be asked to defend in the front line and his practice will be limited.

The Wallabies might say that numbers on backs don't matter and time in different jerseys helps to build a more complete understanding of the game. It's a nice theory, true to a point, but one that is frequently contradicted as soon as the whistle goes. As the Crusaders have proved over recent years, the way to turn Dan Carter from the greatest back of his generation to a regular Super Rugby player is simply slapping a No.12 on his back. And it's no coincidence Adam Ashley-Cooper is growing into this campaign after being left to concentrate on No.13.

O'Connor's case is probably causing the most confusion among the punters. Fairfax Media understands that the Wallabies have been looking at him as a No.10 or wing and his performances at the back for the Rebels are unlikely to change that. And most would have picked Beale's injury as the cue for a permanent move into No.10, instead of the rookie Angus Roberts.

O'Connor's performance improved against the Force in Perth when he switched to No.10 for the second half. His short ball to Richard Kingi for a nice try is becoming something of a trademark this year but the overall impression is that he does not yet have full control of the conductor's baton. Some of his distribution was inaccurate and his tactical kicking from hand put his side under pressure by setting up Force counter-attacks. And even with starting No.10 Roberts off the field at half-time, the Rebels gave the key responsibility of the restarts to New Zealander Jason Woodward, whose hanging kicks gave the Rebels' pack something to chase. No one needs reminding that the restart area has been a particular weakness for the Wallabies in recent years.

O'Connor's experience is far from unusual. Everyone who has worn the Wallabies No.10 over the past few years – Cooper aside – has been something of a chameleon, rotating through positions No.10, No.12 and No.15. It has produced a lot of players who can do a few jobs but none yet that are masters of one in particular. At the end of someone like Johan Goosen's career, you'll probably be able to count the number of times he has played in any jersey but No.10 on one hand.

Perhaps it will not matter. The influence of Will Genia is so profound that, regardless of who wears the No.10, the Wallabies have a good chance of winning the Lions series, albeit with plenty of chewed fingernails along the way. But Wallabies supporters would feel a lot more comfortable if the five-eighth outside him had clocked up some serious hours coping with the unique demands of that position.

I think ultimately they will go for Cooper, Liileafano didn't do to well against the Kings, and in my view it doesnt help to put a player in a pivotal position that has virtually not played there, never mind not performed there.

Bernard Foley of the Waratahs looks a good up an coming 10. Could he sneak in the squad as a bolter? Granted Australia have a lot of options at 10, Beale, Cooper, Barnes and JOC.

Is he rated highly in Australia?

Obviously there has been a lot of talk of George Smith making the squad. Will there be any other bolters/surprise additions?

He's just started to get some attention GG... but the commentators will sometimes talk someone up after they score an individual try like he did on the weekend.

I still think Beale will appear back on the scene shortly - fresh and ready to make amends after he makes an apology - which the ARU will script for him. They'll keep it short & simple.

Linebreaker wrote:He's just started to get some attention GG... but the commentators will sometimes talk someone up after they score an individual try like he did on the weekend.

I still think Beale will appear back on the scene shortly - fresh and ready to make amends after he makes an apology - which the ARU will script for him. They'll keep it short & simple.

What did he do wrong? Must have missed that one.


..........never mind just googled it. Keep your shirt on Beale. Priceless.

I'm not convinced Australia have a problem at 10, we will see how they do, but I've never ever, no matter who's been playing there, thought that their FH was hampering their backs to any large degree. Well, except where Barnes was playing like shoite but that was him doing everything badly in poor form not lack of experience in the position.

Cooper to remain in the cold?

According to reports on Wednesday, it seems Quade Cooper won't be named in Wallaby head coach Robbie Deans' squad that will gather this weekend.



The group, which is yet to be announced, will meet for a two-day camp in Sydney on Sunday and it appears that the pivot hasn't been invited.


Cooper, 24, was involved in a public spat with Deans last year when he called the international environment 'toxic' and has since not featured.


AAP are reporting that it is likely Rebel James O'Connor is likely to fill the spot at ten as Kurtley Beale also remains absent due to other issues.


One player rewarded for strong form is Christian Lealiifano as Deans and Australia look to build a winning squad ahead of the Lions tour in June.

Thanks Munkian. So what are we saying at the moment?:

9. Genia
10. O'Connor
11. Ioane
12. Lealiifano
13. AAC
14. Mitchell/Davies
15. Mogg

George Carlin wrote:Thanks Munkian. So what are we saying at the moment?:

9. Genia
10. O'Connor
11. Ioane
12. Lealiifano
13. AAC
14. Mitchell/Davies
15. Mogg

Wonderful backline...to think they could still call on Cooper, Foley, Beale and at a pinch as a sub...Folau.

Someone said on (Rugby HQ) that Deans will definitely have Folau in the squad. We can't afford not to have a player like that.

I was just thinking on the weekend - imagine having players like GI, Cameron Smith, Slater, Cronc available to play rugby for the Wallabies? Those NRL players are a notch up in certain skills. Powerful and quick too with the ability to break tackles, offload and defend one-on-one.

Dreamtime.....

Coopers gotta be there LB dont you think. He has his swagger back big time and in SXV looks a class above as he used to. I'm starting to agree with Greg Martin about Deans- he needs to push his personality issues with Cooper aside. He's a must versus the Lions.

Linebreaker wrote:Someone said on (Rugby HQ) that Deans will definitely have Folau in the squad. We can't afford not to have a player like that.

I was just thinking on the weekend - imagine having players like GI, Cameron Smith, Slater, Cronc available to play rugby for the Wallabies? Those NRL players are a notch up in certain skills. Powerful and quick too with the ability to break tackles, offload and defend one-on-one.

Dreamtime.....

We've known for a very long time that we're thankful Ozzie have a vibrant League comp!
Wouldnt mind Benji at 10 for the AB's either...DC will have to do for now...SBW where are you?

whats happened to cooper vuna he was class last season?

He been ousted by Issy Folau, yappy.

Jesse Mogg (Brumbies),
Israel Folau (NSW Waratahs),
Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds),
Joe Tomane (Brumbies),
Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs),
Ben Tapuai (Queensland Reds),
Pat McCabe (Brumbies),
Christian Leali'ifano (Brumbies),
Berrick Barnes (NSW Waratahs),
James O'Connor (Melbourne Rebels),
Nic White (Brumbies),
Will Genia (Queensland Reds),
Wycliff Palu (NSW Waratahs),
Fotu Auelua (Brumbies),
Michael Hooper (NSW Waratahs),
Liam Gill (Queensland Reds),
Dave Dennis (NSW Waratahs),
Scott Higginbotham (Melbourne Rebels),
Ben Mowen (Brumbies),
Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds),
James Horwill (Queensland Reds),
Kane Douglas (NSW Waratahs),
Sitaleki Timani (NSW Waratahs),
Dan Palmer (Brumbies),
James Slipper (Queensland Reds),
Ben Alexander (Brumbies),
Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs),
Scott Sio (Brumbies),
Stephen Moore (Brumbies),
Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs)

No Kurtley Beale, Sekope Kepu, Drew Mitchell, Quade Cooper, Nick Phipps

Fotu Auelua, Ben Mowen, Nic White, Christian Leali'ifano and Jesse Mogg have been included.

Robbie Deans said "selection exclusion did not rule players out of participation in the three-Test Lions series..."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/folau-in-cooper-out-of-wallabies-squad-20130412-2hq5h.html

Australian sides had a good weekend. The Brumbies beat the struggling Highlanders while the Reds defeated the Chiefs and even the Force took down the Crusaders.

The Wallabies looked a weak proposition during our summer and autumn, yet only Scotland managed a win from the Home Unions. If the players keep their Super Rugby form then the Lions will be facing a much tougher challenge, even allowing for Robbie Deans' apparent inability to get the best out of them.

Rugby Fan wrote:Australian sides had a good weekend. The Brumbies beat the struggling Highlanders while the Reds defeated the Chiefs and even the Force took down the Crusaders.

The Wallabies looked a weak proposition during our summer and autumn, yet only Scotland managed a win from the Home Unions. If the players keep their Super Rugby form then the Lions will be facing a much tougher challenge, even allowing for Robbie Dean`s apparent inability to get the best out of them.

I agree. This year they have more depth as well- particularly at 7 and from 10 out. Its crucial they stay injury free though. Some good new talent coming through as well. Coopers back to his best...very confident and is cruising. Lelifano looks to be sewing 12 and the kicking spot up. The potential backline particularly looks impressive.

My concern is that the Lions coaching team may construct their gameplan around trying to beat last year's Wallabies rather than this year's vintage.

Graham Henry knew a bit about beating Australian teams, and had a squad with a good number of players who had tasted sucess against the Wallabies, but he still couldn't lead the Lions to a win.

Gatland and Howley have a poor record against Australia. Rowntree saw wins while serving under Johnson but that's a distant memory now. Farrell is still a novice coach, with one loss to the Wallabies on his account. It's a big challenge for all of them.

Well you could say that England particularly have the game that has matched Oz on more occasions and go that way, select more key English players. Just not as simple as that though its as good a guess as anything.

Taylorman wrote:Well you could say that England particularly have the game that has matched Oz on more occasions and go that way, select more key English players. Just not as simple as that though its as good a guess as anything.

That wasn`t enough in 2001, so, as you say, it`s not that simple. The Lions often don`t have the right gameplan. 1997 was one of the few occasions when selection and strategy both worked out. In 1989, selection was wrong but there was time to put it right. In 1993, the Test team had the game to match - or even beat - the All Blacks but the squad was unbalanced. 2001 is often seen as a poorly coached tour, while the less said about 2005, the better. There was a lot right in 2009 except selection for the first Test. Unlike 1989, luck wasn`t with the Lions, so the series was lost.

I think Gatland will choose a capable squad. The competition for a number of places is close enough that I won`t be tearing my hair out if some of my favourite players don`t go. Unless he has a total brain fart, Gatland`s choices won`t be bad and, after all, he`s the one who has to have confidence in them, not me. So far, the discussion on this forum has mostly been about selection rather than style of play but I suspect it`s the latter which will really decide whether the tour is a success.

Going by the multitude of selections on these boards no side will get near appeasing all for this tour until they win.

Love the coach comment about '01- blame the foreign coach. When else has a coach started with a near 20 point thrashing to put them one nil up in the first test, only to be one lineout from winning the series in the third?

The second test the players went onto the field, got complacent and lost it, the coach sitting in the stands. The idiot Healy the main instigator:

"I won't make myself available to tour New Zealand in four years time unless they are better prepared with a visionary coach like Brian Ashton, Clive Woodward or Dean Richards," quotes the Daily Mail.

Ha ha...he got his visionary coach alright. And funnily enough...against the same coach he so thought was hopeless...players or coach...go figure.

So regardless, Someone will target Gatland should the tour go south. Fully expecting that. Its just a matter of who it will be.

So is Deans thinking of JOC / Lealifano / Barnes as his options for 10?

If thats the case Barnes is not too long back from long term injury and while solid enough never did much for me.

JOC hasnt played too much at 10 either and kicking aside he hasnt looked himself - putting on the extra muscle seems to have lost him some sharpness, but that also could be something to do with playing for a developing team!

Lealifano is the best of the 3, but hasnt he played much of the season at 12?

Long shot here but maybe the start of mind games with the lions before beale and cooper are unleashed?

Finally what does henry speight have to do to to get in the squad - the man is playing some very fine rugby....

Cooper will be at 10- 100% convinced of that. He's back to his best and through all his ups and downs last couple of years has probably matured into a better p[erson and player. Impressed on and off the field vs the Chiefs this weekend and he and Genia have one of those weird connections that happens with the great pairings- John/ Edwards, Farr Jones/ Lynagh etc.

Any rifts will be put behind them when the chips are down. Genia, Cooper, Lealifano, JOC, AAC and Beale plus one more for me (Ioane- is he injured?Speight, Folau or both as interchange)

Taylorman wrote:...Love the coach comment about '01- blame the foreign coach. When else has a coach started with a near 20 point thrashing to put them one nil up in the first test, only to be one lineout from winning the series in the third?...

Almost every player on that tour complained about the coaching. Henry was so keen to get everyone on the same page, there was no let-up at training, and precious little squad team-building. He had picked his Test team from the outset, and treated the mid-week players as cannon fodder. In spite of all the time on the training pitch, Henry still ended up wanting Colin Charvis to be a line-out option when he hadn't actually asked him to prepare for that eventuality. Johnson's book says he was a bit annoyed that Charvis complained rather than got on with it, but you can understand both men's frustration.

It's an indictment of Henry that he had a squad who could beat the Wallabies but couldn't hold them together to seal the deal. Complacency is a poor explanation of the failure. Two of the most professional Home Union players of that generation, Wilkinson and O'Driscoll didn't enjoy 2001 in the slightest. Both had a miserable 2005 too, and began to wonder why everyone spoke so fondly of the Lions experience. BOD only found out why in 2009, while Wilkinson will likely end his career never really knowing.

I don't exempt the players from blame. I still haven't quite forgiven Matt Dawson for his mid-tour column. He was a worse offender than Healey in my book, who was largely stitched up by Eddie Butler. Dawson should have been sent home. The fact he wasn't is another example of coaching failure on that tour.

Incidentally, I think you are right that we'll see Genia & Cooper together. If that does happen, it will be fascinating to see whether Cooper can deliver consistently at Test level. If those two are on song, I don't think we have a pair of halfbacks to touch them.

Yes, and after all that disharmony, discontent, players writing articles back home fuming at the coach right throughout the tour- yet they were still one lineout win and try in the corner from a series win. Henry was doing his job, the players had extra curricular activities.

Frankly if they had just shut up and spend more energy on the field than moaning all tour, they could have won. You take on someone as a coach, you show loyalty, and perhaps bicker afterwards because both before and after the tour- Henry proved he was a good coach- who cares what the players thought. Its not their jobs to think that way.
Who knows more about winning and putting sides on the field to win? the players? Unbelievable.

Taylorman wrote:...yet they were still one lineout win and try in the corner from a series win...

That's not true, of course. Winning your own lineout doesn't score you any points. The final result was 29-23 so the Lions needed to go on and use their possession to get a try, then convert it to win.

Arguably, the 1993 series was closer since the first Test was decided in the All Blacks favour after a last-minute controversial penalty. There was still enough momentum on tour to take the second Test (which would have meant a series win) but the fissures were too exposed by the time of the third Test.

Since you seem to believe this is all about Graham Henry being criticized because he was a foreign coach, I suggest you look at the flak the 1993 selectors took. If that's not enough, I don't think Clive Woodward's tenure as Lions coach is particularly celebrated either.

The 2001 tour was a coaching failure. Remember, Henry managed to alienate his own Welsh players almost immediately by dismissing most of them to the midweek side. Since they were the second largest contingent he chose, that wasn't very wise. There were many fine players, and he'd won a Grand Slam with most of them. Elsewhere, he had the core of an England team who were in the middle of an undefeated run against southern hemisphere opposition. He also had Keith Wood at the peak of his powers and Brian O'Driscoll coming into his prime.

We can agree that players should always be respectful of coaches. However, any coach who takes that respect as a given, rather than making sure he has it, risks alienating his squad. A Lions tour is not a normal tour, and the position of coach is different from a national coach. Henry only belatedly realized that and it was to be his downfall.

Most of the players you take are first choice picks in all the teams for which they play. There is no established pecking order in a Lions squad and you need to strike the right balance between the Test and mid-week team so that no-one gets resentful. For all his other faults, that is one aspect of touring with the Lions which McGeechan seems to get consistently right.

McGeechan also understands that the players need to be enjoying the Lions experience to fully commit to it. Beasting them relentlessly on the training field, especially when you've already told half they won't be playing any Tests, was extremely ill-judged.

But of course, Taylorman, you don't always think players being fractious puts them beyone the pale. Just above, you celebrate the talent of Quade Cooper and anticipate his selection for the Wallabies. I don't think many would argue that he is a poster boy for good relations with his Test coach.

Splitting the coaching teams into dirttracker and midweek squads is an absolutely enormous mistake and I hope that I never see that again. Where's the motivation to play well midweek when you know that someone who you don't even see durign training days has already got the test jersey, regardless of how they're actually playing?

The best Lions tours are the ones where the entire squad feels together and settled. Just watch any of the Lions DVDs - 97 was just a great bunch of people.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Taylorman wrote:...yet they were still one lineout win and try in the corner from a series win...

That's not true, of course. Winning your own lineout doesn't score you any points. The final result was 29-23 so the Lions needed to go on and use their possession to get a try, then convert it to win.

Arguably, the 1993 series was closer since the first Test was decided in the All Blacks favour after a last-minute controversial penalty. There was still enough momentum on tour to take the second Test (which would have meant a series win) but the fissures were too exposed by the time of the third Test.

Since you seem to believe this is all about Graham Henry being criticized because he was a foreign coach, I suggest you look at the flak the 1993 selectors took. If that's not enough, I don't think Clive Woodward's tenure as Lions coach is particularly celebrated either.

The 2001 tour was a coaching failure. Remember, Henry managed to alienate his own Welsh players almost immediately by dismissing most of them to the midweek side. Since they were the second largest contingent he chose, that wasn't very wise. There were many fine players, and he'd won a Grand Slam with most of them. Elsewhere, he had the core of an England team who were in the middle of an undefeated run against southern hemisphere opposition. He also had Keith Wood at the peak of his powers and Brian O'Driscoll coming into his prime.

We can agree that players should always be respectful of coaches. However, any coach who takes that respect as a given, rather than making sure he has it, risks alienating his squad. A Lions tour is not a normal tour, and the position of coach is different from a national coach. Henry only belatedly realized that and it was to be his downfall.

Most of the players you take are first choice picks in all the teams for which they play. There is no established pecking order in a Lions squad and you need to strike the right balance between the Test and mid-week team so that no-one gets resentful. For all his other faults, that is one aspect of touring with the Lions which McGeechan seems to get consistently right.

McGeechan also understands that the players need to be enjoying the Lions experience to fully commit to it. Beasting them relentlessly on the training field, especially when you've already told half they won't be playing any Tests, was extremely ill-judged.

But of course, Taylorman, you don't always think players being fractious puts them beyone the pale. Just above, you celebrate the talent of Quade Cooper and anticipate his selection for the Wallabies. I don't think many would argue that he is a poster boy for good relations with his Test coach.

Then it doesnt bode well for Gatland then. Play the predominant Welsh in an effort to overcompensate Henry's selections and he could face the same criticism through backfire. The other thing about Gatland is how long has it been since he did any actual test build up as lead coach. He's been off the pulse in terms of being hands on for well over a year now hasnt he?

With Cooper for me its nothing about the friction with the boss or the media. Its about being the most obvious and logical person for the job and Deans would be a fool to ignore it. If he and Genia play as well as this all year it will be the winning of the series. Thats how good these two are in full flight. And Deans knows it.

If Deans loses the series and leaves out Cooper it will cost him his job.

He is far and beyond the best pivot in AUS rugby. He's not a selfish player, brings players into the game and the best out of his backline. He had a poor RWC but he'll learn from that... he was very good in the '11 tri-nations and is prolific in SR.

He and Deans may not see eye to eye but is it worth the Lions series and 12 years worth of bragging rights???

Its puts an awful lot of pressure on Deans if he leaves out one of his best players and they don't function.

He'll be there I'm almost 100% sure. They have been communicating recently (so I've read) so to me that is a positive.

If he does include him and they lose... well, that will put more pressure on RD's job too. It's like he can't win - if we lose. Win - and those muck-rakers in Christie St can put their wooden ladles away. I'm not a fan of Pulver. I think he's too much of a smarty pants!

I'm sort of glad all of this controversy has happened and is in the process of being addressed right now.
It has been slightly painful (for all of us Aussies) but we're hoping some good will come out of it in time for June 22.

What about Beale? he was left out of the latest squad too wasnt he? Is he not just as if not more important than Cooper?

He'll get another chance too, GG. I'll keep ya posted if I hear anything.

Cooper gets that backline working better then anyone... quite difficult to replace... he'll probably go with Barnes who is conservative at best.

O'Connor and Beale are too inexperienced at test level to play pivot... O'Connor looks like he could fit in but he's still hot and cold at the moment, 1 step ahead etc. Won't be ready in time.

With Beale you can replace him a little easier either with O'Connor, Barnes or Ashley-Cooper. All 3 have their merits but not as dangerous as Beale.

Taylorman wrote:...Then it doesnt bode well for Gatland then. Play the predominant Welsh in an effort to overcompensate Henry's selections and he could face the same criticism through backfire. The other thing about Gatland is how long has it been since he did any actual test build up as lead coach. He's been off the pulse in terms of being hands on for well over a year now hasnt he?...

Agreed. However, Gatland will have more reason to include Welsh players in the Test line-up than Henry. As he went with the Lions to South Africa, he'll also be aware of the importance of keeping the whole squad engaged.

There aren't any clear answers to Henry's problems. Woodward was right to try to keep better control of press coverage but wrong to choose Alastair Campbell. He concluded Henry was right about deciding on his Test team early but tried to deal with it treating the schedule almost as two separate Lions tours. The result was worse. Although Woodward is panned for taking too many players, in the end, injuries hit so hard, the third Test saw him fielding a makeshift side.

Injuries will dictate so much on this tour and to that end the Wallabies are far, far better placed than they were even last year when Beale not playing would have been a disaster. It's feasible now to leave out players like Beale and Cooper and still be looking for a series win.

Whilst the wife was away this weekend I watched the DVDs from the 2001 and 2005 tours. What really struck me was the total carnage Dr Robson had to deal with on both those tours, with key players consistently on and off the treatment table.

GC is right, best laid plans and all that. Lions tours come down to depth in key positions, and Australia have a fair few quality playmakers on stand bye. If the Lions lose Sexton, then it's entirely possible that the midfield comprises Farrell, Roberts and Tuilagi. Powerful and direct, but none great footballers.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Whilst the wife was away this weekend I watched the DVDs from the 2001 and 2005 tours. What really struck me was the total carnage Dr Robson had to deal with on both those tours, with key players consistently on and off the treatment table.

GC is right, best laid plans and all that. Lions tours come down to depth in key positions, and Australia have a fair few quality playmakers on stand bye. If the Lions lose Sexton, then it's entirely possible that the midfield comprises Farrell, Roberts and Tuilagi. Powerful and direct, but none great footballers.

Thats why Gatland should take a punt on Madigan.

He's certainly growing a strong case and timing his form nicely.

The other position which is becoming interesting for me is 12. Roberts and Barritt are both very good players, but I do wonder if there's not room for a more creative influence at 12 in the squad, such as Luke Marshall, Billy Twelvetrees or Matt Scott. Particularly when you consider that Tuilagi could well end up at 13 and North at 11 (with Cuthbert at 14). You've got a lot of big strong and direct runner, but very little in the way of creativity. Someone has got to be able to create the gaps for these guys.

The below was the first bit of news regarding Beale I've seen since his barney with Vuna. It's from today's paper.

Melbourne Rebels coach Damien Hill has forecast changes to his Super Rugby line-up, with the possible inclusion of wayward Wallabies star Kurtley Beale, following their last-ditch loss to the Southern Kings.

One change is already forced, with exciting utility back Richard Kingi needing season-ending knee surgery after an injury early in the match at AAMI Park.

Hill is hopeful the suspended Beale will be available for selection as the side attempts to regroup after its shattering 30-27 loss. Their next challenge is against the heavyweight Crusaders at the Christchurch fortress.
Beale has been undergoing counselling after an alcohol-fuelled altercation with his teammates in South Africa three weeks ago. He was sent home from that tour, fined and suspended indefinitely.

The Australian Rugby Union has taken over management of the talented 23-year-old.

Hill said Beale was ''exceptionally keen to get back and play with the guys'', but he needed a green light from counsellors.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/rebels-put-beale-in-frame-20130414-2htnw.html#ixzz2QXFg1Q2g

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Whilst the wife was away this weekend I watched the DVDs from the 2001 and 2005 tours. What really struck me was the total carnage Dr Robson had to deal with on both those tours, with key players consistently on and off the treatment table.

GC is right, best laid plans and all that. Lions tours come down to depth in key positions, and Australia have a fair few quality playmakers on stand bye. If the Lions lose Sexton, then it's entirely possible that the midfield comprises Farrell, Roberts and Tuilagi. Powerful and direct, but none great footballers.

Thats why Gatland should take a punt on Madigan.

That's definitely not the worst suggestion I've heard - particularly as Wilkinson is likely to be playing in a grand final when the Honkers game kicks off. Makes Deccie's failure to give IM some international game time in the 6N look even more costly. I was hoping to get a chance to see what he could do. 7 dirttracker games is quite a lot of gametime to see how he's shaping for a test spot though.

If the worst happens and Sexton can't travel, then I think we have to take Madigan, actually.

Hi All

Just thought I'd poke my head in to check out the NH thoughts on the upcoming tour were.

I am feeling more confident* about our chances now after the start of the SXV. The depth of Aust rugby seems to be improving and for the moment at least, the Reds and Brumbies are sitting atop the SXV ladder. Filling me with even more (false/misguided/clutching-at-straws) confidence, the Australian franchises are 6-1 over the NZ teams at the moment. Last weekend The Reds beat the 2012 champs (Chiefs) in Waikato, the Brumbies took care of the Highlanders in Dunedin and the Force held on to beat the Crusaders in Perth. Granted, this is only early days in the SXV but there is nothing else to measure against - usually the ledger reads the other way against Kiwi sides so a positive reading against them is encouraging.

Genia is back to near his best and QC seems to be hitting some form. He outplayed Cruden the other day and the dummy he sold him was top drawer. His kicking was sound and, believe it or not, his defence was good. He made a great hit on Kahui. While still not the best defender he has certainly improved that part of his game. There are several discussions going as to why McKenzie can get the best out of Cooper but RD can't. There are rumours going around that JOC will be 5/8 but I hope not. His passing is limited and he does not have the vision QC has.He's better on the wing. Horiwll has come back from injury well and Hugh MMM aka Madness is playing well for the Force - seems his stint in Japan has been beneficial to his game. Can't see why KB would start. Talented though he is, he has to earn his jersey back. Can see him playing a part in the series though. Besides, Mogg has been better and deserves a chance.

Barring any serious injuries I would be happy with the following;
1. Ben Alexander
2. Stephen Moore
3. Sekope Kepu / Dan Palmer
4. Hugh McMeniman / Rob Simmons
5. James Horwill
6. Ben Mowen/ Hugh MMM / Gill
7. Liam Gill / Michael Hooper
8. Wycliff Palu / Fotu Aluela
9. Will Genia
10.Quade Cooper / Matt Toomua
11. Digby Ioane / Joe Tomane
12. Ben Tapuai / CL
13. AAC
14. JOC / Alfi Mafi
15. Jesse Mogg / Kurtley

Two players who should be on the bench regardless are G. Smith (if available. previous winner over the Lions, huge experience, covering 6, 7 & 8) and Israel Folau (not there yet but a serious talent. no-one better under the high ball. a potential game breaker if brought on in the last 15-20min).

*provided RD does not pick Berrick Barnes (bench only), Pat McCabe, Rob Horne, Dave Dennis, Timani Snr, Faainga twins.

Yes have to agree. Didnt realise it was 6-1 but things are suddenly looking very good for oz indeed. The Lions backs dont look encouraging and Gatland may revert to a 10 man approach making Farrell the playmaker and focus on a big yet mobile pack.

I think thats his best chance. Judging by the 6N form, theres not a lot on offer in backline attack, whereas oz are regaining that swagger and straight out high octane play of 3 odd years ago.

The form of genia and cooper and the oz sxv sides performing at higher levels than last year will be causing gatland issues with his selections. Deans wont feel in the same position after the 6N.

Icu wrote:Hi All

Just thought I'd poke my head in to check out the NH thoughts on the upcoming tour were.

I am feeling more confident* about our chances now after the start of the SXV. The depth of Aust rugby seems to be improving and for the moment at least, the Reds and Brumbies are sitting atop the SXV ladder. Filling me with even more (false/misguided/clutching-at-straws) confidence, the Australian franchises are 6-1 over the NZ teams at the moment. Last weekend The Reds beat the 2012 champs (Chiefs) in Waikato, the Brumbies took care of the Highlanders in Dunedin and the Force held on to beat the Crusaders in Perth. Granted, this is only early days in the SXV but there is nothing else to measure against - usually the ledger reads the other way against Kiwi sides so a positive reading against them is encouraging.

Genia is back to near his best and QC seems to be hitting some form. He outplayed Cruden the other day and the dummy he sold him was top drawer. His kicking was sound and, believe it or not, his defence was good. He made a great hit on Kahui. While still not the best defender he has certainly improved that part of his game. There are several discussions going as to why McKenzie can get the best out of Cooper but RD can't. There are rumours going around that JOC will be 5/8 but I hope not. His passing is limited and he does not have the vision QC has.He's better on the wing. Horiwll has come back from injury well and Hugh MMM aka Madness is playing well for the Force - seems his stint in Japan has been beneficial to his game. Can't see why KB would start. Talented though he is, he has to earn his jersey back. Can see him playing a part in the series though. Besides, Mogg has been better and deserves a chance.

Barring any serious injuries I would be happy with the following;
1. Ben Alexander
2. Stephen Moore
3. Sekope Kepu / Dan Palmer
4. Hugh McMeniman / Rob Simmons
5. James Horwill
6. Ben Mowen/ Hugh MMM / Gill
7. Liam Gill / Michael Hooper
8. Wycliff Palu / Fotu Aluela
9. Will Genia
10.Quade Cooper / Matt Toomua
11. Digby Ioane / Joe Tomane
12. Ben Tapuai / CL
13. AAC
14. JOC / Alfi Mafi
15. Jesse Mogg / Kurtley

Two players who should be on the bench regardless are G. Smith (if available. previous winner over the Lions, huge experience, covering 6, 7 & 8) and Israel Folau (not there yet but a serious talent. no-one better under the high ball. a potential game breaker if brought on in the last 15-20min).

*provided RD does not pick Berrick Barnes (bench only), Pat McCabe, Rob Horne, Dave Dennis, Timani Snr, Faainga twins.

Welcome ICU - please keep posting on this thread.

I didn't know if Alfie was qualified to play for Australia (is he Fijian?) but he's looking like hot property at the moment and may do enough to push O'Connor to centre or full back.

Given Dean remains the coach and chief selector the wild card in Australia's chances will be Deans' idiosyncratic selections. As we know from the past he has his favourites irrespective of form and can be very stubborn about selecting the in-form players above his favourites.

On this basis he does risk butchering the team's chances ergo:

- selecting O'Connor at 10, instead of Cooper

- selecting Pat McCabe at 12 and not Tapuai or Lealiafano

- not selecting George Smith in the squad despite his compelling form

- selecting primarily Waratah players in the forward pack including several currently out of form players (or those who have made no real impact this year): Robinson (lazy start to year as usual but he will lift by the tests), TPN, Palu (yes great reps but constantly breaking down injured) Dave Dennis, Kane Douglas, (both solid Super rugby players, not test standard), Hooper (generally well behind Smith and Gill this year).

Reds are no. 2 in the Super rugby competition and have 7 players in the squad. Waratahs are 11th (?) with 11 players in the squad. A joke, but it does make me very nervous once we stop laughing.

My view is Deans won't go back to Cooper given he let him down at the world cup and Deans will not forget about it. He thinks Quade is brittle under intense pressure.

McCabe is an honest player but really at 12 he is a slightly above average Super Rugby player, not a test standard player. Deans is in love with McCabe - it is simply a case of politics.

When Smith left there was a slight falling out with Deans as Deans effectively dropped him in favour of Pocock. To select Smith is akin to admitting Deans got things wrong - remember he is stubborn and won't do it.

My side would be:

Robinson, Moore, Kepu
Horwill, Timani
Higginbotham, Palu, Smith/Gill

9Genia, 10Cooper
12Tapuai,13 AAC
14O'Connor, 15Beale, 11Folau

9Genia, 10Cooper
12Tapuai,13 AAC
14O'Connor, 15Beale, 11Folau

Mine.

9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Tapuai
13 AAc
14 Mafi
15 Mogg

My Lions backline

Murray
Sexton
North
Davies
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Beale's assault charges have been dropped.

http://www.sportal.com.au/rugby-union-news-display/beale-assault-charge-dropped-230844

Biltong wrote:My Lions backline

Murray
Sexton
North
Davies
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

My Lions backline:

Youngs
Madigan
Bowe
Roberts
Drico
North
1/2p

Shazam.

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:My Lions backline

Murray
Sexton
North
Davies
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

My Lions backline:

Youngs
Madigan
Bowe
Roberts
Drico
North
1/2p

Shazam.

My Lions Backline:

Phillips
Biggar
Zebo
Scott
Barritt
Maitland
Kearney

Kapow.

Linebreaker wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:My Lions backline

Murray
Sexton
North
Davies
Tuilagi
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

My Lions backline:

Youngs
Madigan
Bowe
Roberts
Drico
North
1/2p

Shazam.

My Lions Backline:

Phillips
Biggar
Zebo
Scott
Barritt
Maitland
Kearney

Kapow.

Based on these three views I pity Gatland. Kapang!