Aviva Premiership - Round 19

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Table



Fixtures:


Fri 29th Mar 13
19:45 Gloucester Rugby v Harlequins Kingsholm ESPN

Sat 30th Mar 13
14:15 Bath Rugby v London Welsh Recreation Ground
15:00 London Wasps v Saracens Adams Park
15:00 Northampton Saints v Leicester Tigers Franklin's Gardens Sky
15:00 Worcester Warriors v Exeter Chiefs Sixways

Sun 31st Mar 13
14:15 London Irish v Sale Sharks Madejski Stadium ESPN




Preview:

A fascinating set of fixtures as the fight for Heineken Cup places, Play-Off spots and ultimately home semi-finals intensifies. The top 6 sides all meet, with teams 4-6 hosting teams 1-3. An added bonus is that the top 3 sides all have HEC 1/4 finals next week so will be looking to maintain or find some serious form. Meanwhile the two sides just behind the top 6 know that they need to bounce back from defeats last week if they are to have a chance of capitalising on any slips above them. At the bottom, London Welsh's failure to overturn their points deduction leaves them a mountain to climb.


The Easter weekend starts with defending champions Harlequins Good Friday trip to Kingsholm. Fans from both teams have been bemoaning their form, while Glaws coach Nigel Davies has underplayed their chances stating that "we are nowhere near them with our game, so it's a big challenge for us." Victory for Gloucester could see them draw level on points with Quins (though behind on games won) and, should Saints beat Tigers, could see the champions sitting in 4th place. Quins will be wary of the threat posed by Burns but will look to capitalise on the defensive frailties that see him ranked the worst tackler in the league this season. Quins should just be too strong. Gloucester 1pt Quins 4pts

Saturday starts with Bath hosting London Welsh. A must win fixture for both sides, Bath to push for an HEC spot, LW to boost their fading chances of survival. London Welsh won the reverse fixture and at home you feel that Bath should be too strong. Bath 4pts London Welsh 0pts

The East Midlands derby is shown live on Sky. Both teams should be up for this and Saints know that victory could lift them into second place. Tigers will be hoping to extend their 5 match winning streak over Northampton and will hope to find more space in Saints defence than that offered by Exeter. Saints 1pt Tigers 4pts

Wasps have been playing some attractive rugby but look to be running out of steam. not a good sign when the Sarries juggernaut is coming to town. Saracens will have noticed Wasps failure to defend the rolling maul and I suspect Wasps could be in for more of the same. If they can stay composed, Wasps could be the team to mess with Sarries defence - but they will want Stephen Jones pulling the strings, as Nicky Robinson has looked a liability. Waps 0pts Sarries 5pts

Worcester are hard to beat at Sixways, but have a lot of players leaving and really have nothing to play for. Exeter need a win to stay in the frame for HEC spots. Worcester 0pts Exeter 4pts

Sunday's televised match was a huge relegation battle a few weeks ago, but is slightly less important now. London Irish did a Northampton and scored their tries from rolling mauls last week, but escaped the brickbats thrown at the Saints. While unlikely to manage the same feat against Sale, they should have too much class in the backs. London Irish 4pts Sale 1pt

Jimpy wrote:

yappysnap wrote:One of Leicester's biggest talents is unleashing hell on any team that don't compete upfront. They're masters of piling on the points when they get the chance, especially at the end of the season.

But when they come up against tough opposition they go back in to their shells and get in to that ugly attritional stuff. Still win a heck of a lot at that as well though. Except the one that counts.

The sheer volume of silverware in the Tigers' trophy cabinet would suggest that statement is innacurate. I put it to you that your comment was a bit of a jealous dig at Leicester based on last year's final and that right now, Quins are going backwards whilst Tigers are coming nicely to the boil..

Don't forget you lost the year before that as well

And yes maybe I am panicking a little and lashing out wildly, but at the moment our away trip will be to Welford Road. Remind me what's our win loss ratio there since COS took over Quins??? It's like a home away from home....

I think we have lost a number of those finals against teams with very strong first fifteens. Tigers have always cultivated strong squads rather than big players and I wonder if that has effected us on the one off big occasion at times.

I think it is more the high expectations that are set. When you get to that many finals in a row it is inevitable that supporters expect to win more often than not and it is the same for the players as well. I think that we should appreciate the amazing record of 8 finals in a row, 3 of which we have won. Would we have liked to have won more than 3? Of course, but it is incredible that year after year we make it to the final and it is a testament to everyone at the club that we continue to stay at the top.

The only area I would look at in terms of results over recent years is in the Heineken Cup and that is where we can genuinely be disappointed.

Oh and yappy, yes you have a good record at our place in recent times and you have a strong team but I would also suggest you look at our record in semi finals in the premiership...

I'd say definitely Sam. It's probably only a tiny weakness and only noticeable in something like a cup final where the tiny % count.

But over the last few years you've lost Ellis, Dupoi, Mauger, Murphy(almost),Kay and i'm sure a few other. The replacements will take time to settle in but those are a lot of big names. Only Sarries could afford to go out and buy like for like to make up for that.

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:Undeniably it is something that is worrying, its not that we choke under the pressure, its just that the sense of the occasion seems to inspire our opponents more than us especially with the last 2 AP finals anyway.

Bear in mind Saracens had lost the 2009-10 season so losing the 2010-11 final too would have been gut wrenching. It was bodies on the line quite literally.

I thought Leicester still fought really hard. I agree. I think it would be harsh to call Leicester chokers. Leicester have achieved so much that it would be foolish to label you that.

killer938 exactly. Leicester are basically the Manchester United of rugby union.

yappysnap wrote:I'd say definitely Sam. It's probably only a tiny weakness and only noticeable in something like a cup final where the tiny % count.

But over the last few years you've lost Ellis, Dupoi, Mauger, Murphy(almost),Kay and i'm sure a few other. The replacements will take time to settle in but those are a lot of big names. Only Sarries could afford to go out and buy like for like to make up for that.

Its probably that Tigers have run out of blood capsules, it means that our replacements aren't as fresh on their legs as they could be...

Some big names have gone, but more have been developed.

Comparing the current starting XV with the one that almost beat Leinster in the 09 final my amalgamated team would be:

Murphy (09) > Tait
Morris (13) > Hamilton (09 - just)
Tuilagi (13) > Erinle
Allen (13) > Hipkiss
Tuilagi (09) > Thompstone
Flood (13) > Vesty
Youngs (13) > Dupuy
Ayerza (13) > (Ayerza 09)
Youngs (13) > (chuter 09)
Cole (13) = Castro (09)
Slater (13) > Croft (09 - injury forced him to play SR)
Parling (13) > (Kay 09 - Kay was almost retired)
Croft (13) > Newby (09)
Salvi (13) > Woods (09)
Crane (09) > (Crane (13 - just, Crane is starting to show really good form)

Jimpy wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I'd say definitely Sam. It's probably only a tiny weakness and only noticeable in something like a cup final where the tiny % count.

But over the last few years you've lost Ellis, Dupoi, Mauger, Murphy(almost),Kay and i'm sure a few other. The replacements will take time to settle in but those are a lot of big names. Only Sarries could afford to go out and buy like for like to make up for that.

Its probably that Tigers have run out of blood capsules, it means that our replacements aren't as fresh on their legs as they could be...

With all the suspicions surrounding just how Dan Hipkiss forhead wound re-opened just in time for Dupuy to come back on for the penalty shoot-out in the 09 semi, not sure we have much moral high ground, especially as it was one of our sons that masterminded Bloodgate.

Jimpy wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I'd say definitely Sam. It's probably only a tiny weakness and only noticeable in something like a cup final where the tiny % count.

But over the last few years you've lost Ellis, Dupoi, Mauger, Murphy(almost),Kay and i'm sure a few other. The replacements will take time to settle in but those are a lot of big names. Only Sarries could afford to go out and buy like for like to make up for that.

Its probably that Tigers have run out of blood capsules, it means that our replacements aren't as fresh on their legs as they could be...

I'm fairly sure Nev was anything but fresh on his legs baring in mind why he'd come off...

yappysnap wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I'd say definitely Sam. It's probably only a tiny weakness and only noticeable in something like a cup final where the tiny % count.

But over the last few years you've lost Ellis, Dupoi, Mauger, Murphy(almost),Kay and i'm sure a few other. The replacements will take time to settle in but those are a lot of big names. Only Sarries could afford to go out and buy like for like to make up for that.

Its probably that Tigers have run out of blood capsules, it means that our replacements aren't as fresh on their legs as they could be...

I'm fairly sure Nev was anything but fresh on his legs baring in mind why he'd come off...

Yes, it was a bit below the belt digging up the old Bloodgate scandal, it was meant more light heartedly than it has been received.

Anyway, does anyone know if an AP team has been more successful in terms of titles than Leicester in the last 10 years?

Only Wasps have won the Premiership more than once other than us, but they have a couple of HEC wins as well. However it is 5 years since their last title.

Cannot remember the various Amlin/Parker winners - but Quins have won that.

LondonTiger wrote:Only Wasps have won the Premiership more than once other than us, but they have a couple of HEC wins as well. However it is 5 years since their last title.

Cannot remember the various Amlin/Parker winners - but Quins have won that.

I think my point is that Tigers havent exactly 'choked' at the last hurdle more than any other team in the AP. It would have been nice for them to have won everything they got to a final to contest, but thats never going to happen, not for any team. They've still done rather well overall.

Not sure we have ever choked in a final.

We played our socks off against Quins and Sarries and just came up short. Equally we have been well beaten by Wasps, Sale and Ospreys in finals.

Closest to choking for me would be the 2007 HEC final at Twickenham. We had two titles already and were clear favourites to do the treble. That day we were poor. Credit should be given to Wasps though as well.

LondonTiger wrote:Not sure we have ever choked in a final.

We played our socks off against Quins and Sarries and just came up short. Equally we have been well beaten by Wasps, Sale and Ospreys in finals.

Closest to choking for me would be the 2007 HEC final at Twickenham. We had two titles already and were clear favourites to do the treble. That day we were poor. Credit should be given to Wasps though as well.

I absolutely agree. I hope that we can also agree that we've put Yappy's jibe to bed now.

LondonTiger wrote:Only Wasps have won the Premiership more than once other than us, but they have a couple of HEC wins as well. However it is 5 years since their last title.

Cannot remember the various Amlin/Parker winners - but Quins have won that.

Talking of Wasps did anyone watch their game with Sarries? I don't think I've seen a ref give more 50/50 decisions to one side (Sarries) ever. Some of the scrum decisions in particular were crazy - Wasps on the ascendency, he re-sets. Sarries on the ascendency, they get the pen. Bizarre all round. Anyway, just my take on it.

B Vunipola seems to have lost some of his ball carrying fizz. As his fitness improves he's developing a more rounded game, but I hope Sarries and Wasps for the last few games, make sure his carrying remains a strength.

Jimpy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Not sure we have ever choked in a final.

We played our socks off against Quins and Sarries and just came up short. Equally we have been well beaten by Wasps, Sale and Ospreys in finals.

Closest to choking for me would be the 2007 HEC final at Twickenham. We had two titles already and were clear favourites to do the treble. That day we were poor. Credit should be given to Wasps though as well.

I absolutely agree. I hope that we can also agree that we've put Yappy's jibe to bed now.

Just a little bit of fun matey don't worry, i'm sure you'll be in your 9th final this season too.

Hood83 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Only Wasps have won the Premiership more than once other than us, but they have a couple of HEC wins as well. However it is 5 years since their last title.

Cannot remember the various Amlin/Parker winners - but Quins have won that.

Talking of Wasps did anyone watch their game with Sarries? I don't think I've seen a ref give more 50/50 decisions to one side (Sarries) ever. Some of the scrum decisions in particular were crazy - Wasps on the ascendency, he re-sets. Sarries on the ascendency, they get the pen. Bizarre all round. Anyway, just my take on it.

B Vunipola seems to have lost some of his ball carrying fizz. As his fitness improves he's developing a more rounded game, but I hope Sarries and Wasps for the last few games, make sure his carrying remains a strength.

I thought the same kind of thing happened to them last week against Saints as well, i've never seen a ref be so ruthless with mauls and bin players so quickly.

Just shows that at the moment their players aren't smart enough to deal with pressure and keep on the refs good side. It'll come though.

Vunipola is still carrying well, but there's a lot less go forward about Wasps at the moment and a fair few players look tired. We'll get a better idea of where he is over the summer and next season for Sarries.

That's Rose for you Yappy. He doesn't hang around with the big calls in the 22. My favourite AP ref, Wasps may feel hard done by but they were warned early on and didn't react.

yappysnap wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Not sure we have ever choked in a final.

We played our socks off against Quins and Sarries and just came up short. Equally we have been well beaten by Wasps, Sale and Ospreys in finals.

Closest to choking for me would be the 2007 HEC final at Twickenham. We had two titles already and were clear favourites to do the treble. That day we were poor. Credit should be given to Wasps though as well.

I absolutely agree. I hope that we can also agree that we've put Yappy's jibe to bed now.

Just a little bit of fun matey don't worry, i'm sure you'll be in your 9th final this season too.

Yes, probably with Saracens, as they appear to be the only other AP side worthy of contesting a final with Tigers at this time...

Just a little bit of fun, don't worry.

Jimpy wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Not sure we have ever choked in a final.

We played our socks off against Quins and Sarries and just came up short. Equally we have been well beaten by Wasps, Sale and Ospreys in finals.

Closest to choking for me would be the 2007 HEC final at Twickenham. We had two titles already and were clear favourites to do the treble. That day we were poor. Credit should be given to Wasps though as well.

I absolutely agree. I hope that we can also agree that we've put Yappy's jibe to bed now.

Just a little bit of fun matey don't worry, i'm sure you'll be in your 9th final this season too.

Yes, probably with Saracens, as they appear to be the only other AP side worthy of contesting a final with Tigers at this time...

Just a little bit of fun, don't worry.

Where Tigers will choke once more.. Handbags away now please

Don't worry just a bit of fun and I'll gladly let Tigers take the choker title from us

HongKongCherry wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Not sure we have ever choked in a final.

We played our socks off against Quins and Sarries and just came up short. Equally we have been well beaten by Wasps, Sale and Ospreys in finals.

Closest to choking for me would be the 2007 HEC final at Twickenham. We had two titles already and were clear favourites to do the treble. That day we were poor. Credit should be given to Wasps though as well.

I absolutely agree. I hope that we can also agree that we've put Yappy's jibe to bed now.

Just a little bit of fun matey don't worry, i'm sure you'll be in your 9th final this season too.

Yes, probably with Saracens, as they appear to be the only other AP side worthy of contesting a final with Tigers at this time...

Just a little bit of fun, don't worry.

Where Tigers will choke once more.. Handbags away now please

Don't worry just a bit of fun and I'll gladly let Tigers take the choker title from us

Lets be honest, Glaws practically invented the word 'choke'....

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:I actually have to agree with Jimpy. As I have said before Tigers are always there in the mix. Consistently challenging for the AP title.

Tigers are the team I am most wary of and that won't change till other sides like Saints and Quins can challenge us in the head to head department.

I wouldn't say Quins are going backwards though yet. Too early to say. Beating Munster is crucial to see where they are. A win would put them back on track in my opinion.

Sarries away and Gloucester away were always going to be tough for Quins.

Hmmmmm with just three matches left of the regular season, I'd say that its not too early to say that. Remember, Quins were 5 points clear at the top until just a few weeks ago, they're now third and 6 points behind Tigers - that, to me, is going backwards and at a rate of knots too.

Tigers will need to beat Wasps at Welford Rd before a home semi-final is likely, because they've a tough away match to Bath the week after. I've got a bad feeling that they'll get mauled by Toulon at the weekend and it'll take too much out of them for the Wasps game.

Whether we are going backwards depends on whether we get any more silverware this season. I'd have loved to come top of the AP, but that's not actually where the result matters