Aviva Premiership - Round 6

Table

Team	Played	--Won--	-Drawn-	---BP---	Points
Saracens	5	5	0	2	22
Exeter	5	4	0	3	19
Leicester	5	4	0	0	16
Harlequins	5	3	0	3	15
Wasps	5	3	0	2	14
Northampton	5	2	0	4	12
Sale Sharks	5	2	1	2	12
Bath	5	2	0	2	10
Worcester	5	2	0	2	10
Gloucester	5	2	0	1	9
Newcastle	5	0	1	0	2
London Irish	5	0	0	0	0

Fixtures:


Fri 4th Dec

19:45 Gloucester Rugby  v   Sale Sharks BT Sport
Both sides will not have been happy with their performances last week in games that failed to rise above the awful conditions. Gloucester's experiment of Twelvetrees at 10 and hook at 12 failed rather conspicuously as neither managed to add any control. Gloucester will be hoping for dry conditions in which their quick backs are more likely to thrive. Not for the first time this season, Danny Cipriani was unsuccessful with a "win-the-game" kick. After his break during the Challenge Cup matches he looked rusty, and with the court appearance hanging over him he will need to cast away all extraneous emotions and perform if Sale are to sneak anything from this game. Gloucester should win and overtake their visitors in the table, but it is hard to see either team threatening the top half of the table.


Sat 5th Dec

15:00 Harlequins  v   London Irish
Having secured a TBP at Sandy Park, Quins will be bemoaning their ill-discipline (plus attempts to run the clock down at the end of the first half) that allowed Exeter to sneak the win. Still, if you had offered them 2 points before they started their journey west they would probably have bitten your hand off. London Irish are the only team still pointless in the table, but can keep tyheir hopes up by looking at just how hard their opening fixtures have been. all five of their opponents so far finished in the top half of the table last season, and all bar Bath are their again. The trip to the Stoop continues the trend of playing form teams. Certainly Irish have no being playing as poorly as the table would suggest and, despite Quins being clear favourites, they are capable of getting something from this game.

15:00 Worcester Warriors  v   Leicester Tigers
Along with visitors Bath, Leicester did well to rise above the conditions last week and produce a game full of ambition and running - but perhaps not finishing. With Bell and Youngs both kicking far too long with the wind behind, Bath dominated territory and possession in the first half. However tigers showed real grit to hold them at bay, repeated this when down to 14 men in the second half and pulled away at the end. While the influence of Mauger can be seen in how Tigers are trying to play, the physicality with which tigers hit every tackle, ruck and maul was quintessential Cockers. They will need all that grit and fire for the visit to Sixways to face a Worcester side that are more than the sum of their parts. Wuss will be disappointed and even shocked by the score line last week. They did not play as poorly as a casual look at the score would suggest. DOC needs to avoid winding the ref up though. There were a number of 50/50 calls that went the Sarries way after some rather pointless in the refs face behaviour.


15:15 Bath Rugby  v   Northampton Saints BT Sport
The top two in last years regular season have struggled for form and consistency in the league so far, both with just two wins from five games. It is hard to decide who will be more confident going into this match. Bath played some excellent rugby in absolutely dire conditions at the weekend, but allowed Leicester's physicality to seize the day. Saints in conditions almost as bad featured in perhaps the worst match of the season - but dominated their opponent up front. Bath struggled at the lineout last week, but went toe-to-toe  at scrum time with the Leicester 8, almost gaining parity. they will need to raise their game further though for the visit of Saints beast of a scrum. I fell thi smatch could be decided by the conditions. If dry and still Bath should be able to avoid arm wrestle and seize the win. Wet and heavy and Saints abrasiveness and grunbt should dominate. Both sides will not wish to lose and slide down the table, but both sides will have their eyes on potentially tricky European matches.

17:30 Wasps  v   Exeter Chiefs BT Sport
Two teams that love to run the ball. Also two teams that have shown admirable defence this season at times, Wasps most notably in Europe, Chiefs for Leicester's visit. I am fascinated to see how this match will pan out. On paper Wasps look stronger, but Exeter have continued to make a mockery of such assertions. Battle of the back rows could be seismic.


Sun 6th Dec

15:00 Newcastle Falcons  v   Saracens BT Sport
It will be a shock if Saracens fail to win this game. Falcons should not be written off though. With one eye on Europe the defending champions will continue to rotate their players. Falcons came close to beating Sarries last season in Barnet with an all action attacking game - same again could make things interesting - but they have to be precise. Lose possession when in attack and they will see just how precisely Sarries counter attack.

Mark

ChequeredJersey wrote:Mark

?

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Mark

?

??

I'm marking the page to discuss later

Quins have scored 12 tries in their last 3 games, and against pretty tough opposition. I agree that Irish aren't as bad as their results would suggest, but barring appalling weather or even more injuries, I'd expect a high-scoring game with Quins running the ball a lot.

Glos
Quins
Tigers
Saints
Wasps
Falcons

The Bath and Wasps games are both 50/50 for me.

I expect Quins to win, but of all the top 6 teams I think we're the most flaky. We probably have at least 1 really poor home game in us and I can see this being it.

In form alone though should be a tbp win.

You've gone with us Yappy? Really?

GeordieFalcon wrote:You've gone with us Yappy? Really?

I am afraid he has gone against your opponents, rather than for you.

He must have picked the side he thinks will lose in that one.

I'm starting to think he either doesn't like Sarries (can't think why) or likes the underdog - last week he picked Wuss and Irish ...

We were very flaky the last 2 seasons. Maybe we've turned the corner, Yappy? Still need to get our execution better though

I'm so glad at how much better our attack looks than last year though. Lineout etc is annoying and bad to have as an issue, defence too (though I think we have been better than our scores against show there...) but a Quins side that can't attack is a travesty!

Good chance for Tigers to get our first bonus point of the AP campaign. Need a little bit of rotation though so a tricky ask for the coaches.

ChequeredJersey wrote:We were very flaky the last 2 seasons. Maybe we've turned the corner, Yappy? Still need to get our execution better though

You're right, flakies the wrong way to describe it. Like that extra time try we conceded to Exeter on the weekend, we always seem a moment away from being the masters of our own defeat.

I do hope we have a backrow for this game, with Tieli out for the season, Baby Chis out for 12 weeks and Wallace, Clifford, Loamanu out for a few weeks it's running low!!

Robshaw, Ward, Easter should start. Not sure who'll bench though.

GeordieFalcon wrote:You've gone with us Yappy? Really?

You ran them close last season, and they might under estimate you! Someone has to beat Starbucks Rugby

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'm so glad at how much better our attack looks than last year though. Lineout etc is annoying and bad to have as an issue, defence too (though I think we have been better than our scores against show there...) but a Quins side that can't attack is a travesty!

Attack has been brilliant so far,and that's with terrible lineout. If we can sort that we'll be even more potent.

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:You've gone with us Yappy? Really?

You ran them close last season, and they might under estimate you! Someone has to beat Starbucks Rugby

Yep. Us. Obviously


Though in reality, even when it's going well we struggle against them - and their pitch seems to break our players

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:We were very flaky the last 2 seasons. Maybe we've turned the corner, Yappy? Still need to get our execution better though

You're right, flakies the wrong way to describe it. Like that extra time try we conceded to Exeter on the weekend, we always seem a moment away from being the masters of our own defeat.

I do hope we have a backrow for this game, with Tieli out for the season, Baby Chis out for 12 weeks and Wallace, Clifford, Loamanu out for a few weeks it's running low!!

Robshaw, Ward, Easter should start. Not sure who'll bench though.

We must be looking for backrow injury cover for the season injury to Talei!

Another tough game away from home against an in form side this week for us.  Despite conceding 4 tries, we were pretty solid defensively on the weekend, for 70 minutes at least.  If we can get a bit more possession, as opposed to the 30% we had against Wasps, we can certainly cause Quins some problems, as we put some decent attacking phases together as well.  I would imagine that this week in training there has been a big emphasis on the set piece, and also the breakdown, and if we can be a bit more accurate there, this could be a good game.  If we are a bit off, as we have been at times this season, it could be ugly.  Quins rightly the favourites, but I'm keeping the faith with my side, and going for a first Premiership win of the campaign for us!

I don't think we will get the win sadly Ozzy, but I am confident we will pick up our first points of the year.

SB, I agree we are definitely not favourites to win this one, but I was at Hazelwood yesterday, and there is a real determination amongst the squad so iron out the fine detail which has been the difference between winning and losing in most games.  The guys were very honest about where they are as a team and what they need to do to turn things around.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Another tough game away from home against an in form side this week for us.  Despite conceding 4 tries, we were pretty solid defensively on the weekend, for 70 minutes at least.  If we can get a bit more possession, as opposed to the 30% we had against Wasps, we can certainly cause Quins some problems, as we put some decent attacking phases together as well.  I would imagine that this week in training there has been a big emphasis on the set piece, and also the breakdown, and if we can be a bit more accurate there, this could be a good game.  If we are a bit off, as we have been at times this season, it could be ugly.  Quins rightly the favourites, but I'm keeping the faith with my side, and going for a first Premiership win of the campaign for us!

You will definitely get a fair bit of possession - while our scrum has been going pretty well, our lineout is as flaky as a Paul Hollywood mille-feuille. It might improve as Buchanan (who's been out for yonks) gets used to his new targets (no Robson this year, plus Horwill and Twomey are both new to the First XV), but it's been decidedly wonky so far.

The big danger for Irish is Quins' ability on the turnover. Visser has scored a couple of tries off interceptions and because Ward rips the ball off players in the tackle rather than on the ground when we get turnovers they are often in play before the defence has time to adjust. Add to that our offloading game and we're very dangerous on the counter.

We need to cut down the penalty count, though, and not allow teams back into the game with soft defence, which has been the weak spot so far.

Personally, I hope yappy's really bad home game happened against Sale...

True Sale may have been the one!

As poorfour says our biggest issues are the penalty count, wonky lineouts putting us under a Poopie tonne of pressure and decision making in our own 22 especially at the end of the halves.

The lineouts will continue to be poor for a while as Buchanan gets back into his role, the jumpers aren't helping either though, as even Gray, usually a very good technical hooker failed to hit them a few times.

Penalties can be worked on and I hope this week has seen a big emphasis on that and clearance drills in our 22. Catching the restart would help.

It's very early to talk about must win games, but that pretty much is what Glaws have this Friday. Based upon how poorly we're playing at the moment our run of fixtures looks like a horror list and unless something drastically improves we could see very little return in the coming months as after Sale we're playing Quins (A), Irish (H), Chiefs (A), Tigers (H), Bath (A), Quins (H), Sarries (A), Falcons (H) through to the end of February. On present form I can only see 2 wins coming from that lot.

HongKongCherry wrote:It's very early to talk about must win games, but that pretty much is what Glaws have this Friday.  Based upon how poorly we're playing at the moment our run of fixtures looks like a horror list and unless something drastically improves we could see very little return in the coming months as after Sale we're playing Quins (A), Irish (H), Chiefs (A), Tigers (H), Bath (A), Quins (H), Sarries (A), Falcons (H) through to the end of February. On present form I can only see 2 wins coming from that lot.

Meh, that's not a horror list, come back to us when you've had a run like Tigers (H), Exeter (A), Sarries (A), Bath (H), Wasps (H*), Quins (A), Northampton (H), Glouc (A)

On the plus side, assuming we aren't completely devoid of confidence by then, 2016 should present a few more opportunities to put some sort of run together.

A losing BP against Quins at the weekend would be a step in the right direction.

Anyone know how long a team managed to go without managing a single point on the table? If memory serves LW did at least get a losing bp fairly early doors.

Irish could be going for some kind of record...

Yappy/poorfour, you needn't worry about conceding penalties on Saturday lads, as so far this season none of our goalkickers has been able to hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Our lineout has been a bit iffy as well. The scrum however has been improvign game on game and we were 100% on our own ball against Wasps, and nicked penalties on a couple of their put ins.

The big issue for us has been at 10. Whether it is Noakes or geraghty there on Saturday, they will need to be at the top of their game to make effective use of the ball when we have it.

yappysnap wrote:Anyone know how long a team managed to go without managing a single point on the table? If memory serves LW did at least get a losing bp fairly early doors.

Irish could be going for some kind of record...

LW got a TBP against Bath early last season, only point they got though all season.

In 2003/04 Rotherham finished bottom with on 3 points, all LBP's. The first came on 20th December 2003, which was round 12 of the Premiership, and incidentally was against London Irish, in a 10-15 defeat at Millmoor.

I don't think Irish will beat that record then...

Yappy/poorfour, you needn't worry about conceding penalties on Saturday lads, as so far this season none of our goalkickers has been able to hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Our lineout has been a bit iffy as well. The scrum however has been improvign game on game and we were 100% on our own ball against Wasps, and nicked penalties on a couple of their put ins.

The big issue for us has been at 10. Whether it is Noakes or geraghty there on Saturday, they will need to be at the top of their game to make effective use of the ball when we have it.

We are very good at conceding a lot of pens in front of the posts to make it as easy as possible for the opposition. Add to that our penchant for kamikaze rugby in our own 22, especially in extra time, and I'm sure we'll do our best to keep you boys in it!

Our scrums been pretty good so far, as long as Marler's starting and we'll probably have Buchanan at 2 I don't think we'll concede much. Got to say I haven't been impressed with Court when he's played, I expected a lot more from an Int prop.

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:You've gone with us Yappy? Really?

You ran them close last season, and they might under estimate you! Someone has to beat Starbucks Rugby

We were playing much better rugby last season...how have we fallen back so much this season..

All the other sides seemed to have used their long pre season well....we look like we were on holiday for the most part of it!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:You've gone with us Yappy? Really?

You ran them close last season, and they might under estimate you! Someone has to beat Starbucks Rugby

We were playing much better rugby last season...how have we fallen back so much this season..  

All the other sides seemed to have used their long pre season well....we look like we were on holiday for the most part of it!

Two works for you Geordie...

John. Wells.

He did his best to ruin the forwards when coaching for England (remember the static pods of 3?) and now you have him as a forwards and defense coach. You are screwed.

yappysnap wrote:
John. Wells.

He did his best to ruin the forwards when coaching for England (remember the static pods of 3?) and now you have him as a forwards and defense coach. You are screwed.

Wasn't that originally a Graham Henry tactic used by the 2001 Lions.

Drove the players mad IIRC, no more so than Scott Quinnell who had had to be restrained when he tried to "confront" Henry.

Really? That's sort of before my time but sounds amazing!!

My memory suggests that Quinnell was bollocked by Henry for not creating the correct pod and running with the ball instead. That he made a massive linebreak that led to a try was imaterial to the Kiwi.

Of course senility may be kicking in and I may be remembering several stories and merging into one.

Anyway back to the weekends action.

Gloucester switch Hook and 36 while Morgan drops out completely - injury? - otherwise unchanged from their disappointing display at Northampton:

Gloucester Rugby:

15 Rob Cook; 14 Charlie Sharples, 13 Bill Meakes, 12 BillyTwelvetrees (capt), 11 Jonny May; 10 James Hook, 9 Willi Heinz; 1 Paddy McAllister, 2 Richard Hibbard, 3 John Afoa; 4 Tom Savage, 5 Jeremy Thrush; 6 Ross Moriarty, 7 Matt Kvesic, 8 Sione Kalamafoni

Replacements:

16 Darren Dawidiuk, 17 Nick Wood, 18 Nicky Thomas, 19 Mariano Galarza, 20 Jacob Rowan, 21 Greig Laidlaw, 22 Henry Trinder, 23 Henry Purdy

Sale Sharks:

15. Mike Haley, 14. Nev Edwards, 13. Sam James, 12. Sam Tuitupou, 11. Will Addison 10. Danny Cipriani, 9. Peter Stringer, 1. Ross Harrison, 2. Tommy Taylor, 3. Vadim Cobilas, 4. Bryn Evans, 5. Jonathan Mills, 6. Dan Braid (capt.), 7. TJ Ioane, 8. Josh Beaumont

Replacements: 16. Neil Briggs, 17. Eifion Lewis Roberts, 18. Brian Mujati, 19. Andrei Ostrikov, 20. David Seymour, 21. Chris Cusiter, 22. Joe Ford, 23. Mark Jennings.

Switching Hook and 36 seems a bit like shuffling chairs on the titanic.

Good to see Sharples back on the bench, I'd forgotten all about him.

On the bench? He's starting, and started last week.

I think yappy means Trinder. He's had 2 year's of different injuries, so hopefully he can finally put a run of games together as we've sorely missed his running lines.

I can't find any reference that Morgan is injured, so he's either on an EPS rest weekend or he's been dropped. He was excellent against La Rochelle 2 weeks ago, but completely anonymous against Saints last week so it could be either situation.

It's a vital match for Glaws, but I genuinely don't know whether we're good enough to win it.

Yea meant Trinder!

Good to see him back and hopefully fit.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:
John. Wells.

He did his best to ruin the forwards when coaching for England (remember the static pods of 3?) and now you have him as a forwards and defense coach. You are screwed.

Wasn't that originally a Graham Henry tactic used by the 2001 Lions.

Drove the players mad IIRC, no more so than Scott Quinnell who had had to be restrained when he tried to "confront" Henry.

Wow, you are really old if you remember back that far.


Sadly, I remember that too.  Like it was yesterday.  

It absolutely pished some players off to the max..  I had forgotten until you mentioned it that it was Quinnell that almost went beserk.

I still can't believe we lost than Lions tour, pretty criminal with the players available.

Bathman_in_London wrote:I still can't believe we lost than Lions tour, pretty criminal with the players available.

As I recall the decisive moment was an Australian lock taking out Richard Hill with a cheap shot off the ball, in the middle of the second test. Was it Harrison?

It was Nathan Grey. The Joe Roff intercept was a big moment too.

Poorfour wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:I still can't believe we lost than Lions tour, pretty criminal with the players available.

As I recall the decisive moment was an Australian lock taking out Richard Hill with a cheap shot off the ball, in the middle of the second test. Was it Harrison?

You were thinking Harrison because it was a cheap shot? He was such a nice thoughtful and gentle player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV2vIgPkjYc

There are four changes to the starting team that played Exeter Chiefs last week. Ollie Lindsay-Hague is named on the wing, partnering Tim Visser and Mike Brown.

In the forwards Dave Ward starts at hooker and is joined in the front row by Adam Jones. Luke Wallace returns to the back row at openside flanker.

Among the replacements, Ross Chisholm will look to make his first senior appearance of the season.

Harlequins team
15. Mike Brown
14. Ollie Lindsay-Hague
13. George Lowe
12. Harry Sloan
11. Tim Visser
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care©

1. Joe Marler
2. Dave Ward
3. Adam Jones
4. James Horwill
5. Sam Twomey
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. Nick Easter

16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Charlie Matthews
20. Jack Clifford
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ben Botica
23. Ross Chisholm

doctor_grey wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:I still can't believe we lost than Lions tour, pretty criminal with the players available.

As I recall the decisive moment was an Australian lock taking out Richard Hill with a cheap shot off the ball, in the middle of the second test. Was it Harrison?

You were thinking Harrison because it was a cheap shot?  He was such a nice thoughtful and gentle player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV2vIgPkjYc

'Class A, everyone is doing it'.

Lovely man.

Bath Rugby team to face Northampton Saints:



15 Anthony Watson
14 Semesa Rokoduguni
13 Jonathan Joseph
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Matt Banahan
10 George Ford
9 Chris Cook
1 Nick Auterac
2 Rob Webber
3 Henry Thomas
4 Dave Attwood
5 Tom Ellis
6 Matt Garvey
7 Francois Louw (c)
8 Leroy Houston


Replacements



16 Ross Batty
17 Max Lahiff
18 Dave Wilson
19 David Denton
20 Guy Mercer
21 Niko Matawalu
22 Rhys Priestland
23 Tom Homer

I like that midfield. Good to see Wilson back on the bench too.