WRU speaks out

Press release:

"WELSH RUGBY UNION STATEMENT

The Welsh Rugby Union wishes to clarify recent media reporting of a variety of current issues related to Welsh rugby. The WRU is anxious that the Welsh rugby public are made aware of the facts.


PRGB

The proposal to create a Professional Regional Game Board was developed during discussions following an independent report which concluded that the Regions needed to improve their business management and explore collaborative solutions.

A memorandum of understanding was signed by all four Regions and the WRU late in 2012 agreeing terms for the creation of the PRGB, its remit, who should be its members and its independent Chairman.

Early in 2013 the Regions sought to interpret the memorandum of understanding in a manner which was unacceptable to the WRU.

On Tuesday March 26, in a desire to move matters forward, the WRU presented a new proposal for a PRGB and awaits a response from the Regions.

It is important to note that the WRU seeks to help the regions create long term rugby and business sustainability. Demands for more money do not address the fundamental problems.

The WRU urges the regions to work together with the WRU to ensure that a PRGB can become operational in order to help address the issues raised in the PwC report.


JUDGEMENT DAY

The WRU organised, marketed and managed the event within its stated aim of helping the Regions achieve greater visibility and attract more and new supporters. This initiative was first proposed to the Regions by the WRU in 2007.

The WRU guarantees significant match fees to the Blues and Dragons as this day replaces their scheduled home fixtures.

The WRU has underwritten the event for four years with financial guarantees.

The WRU has also proposed further, major events involving the four Regions at the Millennium Stadium.

Judgement Day has proved a remarkable success with 36, 174 people attending to watch a celebration of regional rugby which has raised the profile of the elite game in Wales.


PLAYER TRANSFERS

The WRU accepts that some elite players will inevitably seek to leave Wales to achieve contractual incomes which are beyond the capacity of the current game in Wales.

The WRU has developed an elite pathway structure which nurtures talent through the WRU age grade structure, the WRU academies, the WRU funded regional age grade competitions, the Principality Premiership Division and its WRU resourced community game.

The WRU funds the Regions to secure the release of those elite contracted players with an annual sum in excess of £6million. This £6 million is part of the £15 million distributed to the Regions annually by the WRU.

The WRU has created a powerful elite playing and training environment through its National Centre of Excellence. The WRU urges the Regions to abandon the practice of selling Welsh qualified senior players for profit before their contracts are concluded.

The WRU further urges all four Regions to inform other regions and the WRU, as a first priority, when they are seeking to sell or release any elite Welsh qualified player.


GEORGE NORTH

The WRU is aware that the Scarlets opened discussions to transfer the player with clubs outside Wales and the UK late in 2012.

George North informed the WRU shortly after the Wales v Ireland RBS 6 Nations international on February 2 2013 that he had then been told of the transfer proposal.

George refused to consider France, but reluctantly conceded he would be prepared to move if the Scarlets wished.


CENTRAL CONTRACTS

The WRU first tabled an offer to discuss centrally contracting Welsh qualified regional players in August 2012 and has renewed that proposal. No meaningful response from the Regions has been received by the WRU.

The WRU revisited the issue of George North and agreed to consider assisting in a financial model to retain him in Wales with one of the four Regions.

The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union.


The WRU urges all four Regions to abandon this stance and return to the negotiating table.


This press release was produced by Sotic Ltd.

© Copyright Welsh Rugby Union. All rights reserved."


EDIT:

The Regions' response:

"The four Welsh regions are united in expressing how staggered and bitterly disappointed they all are with the nature, intent and content of the public statement made by the WRU this morning on a number of issues affecting Welsh rugby.
As the governing body that should lead and set the standards and platform for the profile of the game in Wales, the regions are surprised at the WRU's seemingly defensive reaction to some of the media reporting particularly given the success of yesterday's Welsh derby double-header.

As a celebration of regional rugby that attracted close to 37,000 supporters of our game, it was a clear example of the benefits of a partnership approach between the four regions to create fresh opportunities to promote the regional game in Wales and enjoyed by both regional players and spectators.

There are a number of significant comments made within the WRU statement, that the four regions will now need to consider very seriously and with the appropriate amount of time and discussion before making a full and united response.

The Professional Regional Game Board (PRGB) was proposed to ensure that Welsh rugby had a joint collaborative body, with an independent chairman, with the remit and authority to find solutions for some of the issues affecting Welsh rugby.

Had the PRGB been implemented as originally agreed by the WRU, it would be addressing the exact issues that it has now raised in its statement including the important objective of how best to retain Welsh players like George North.

The four regions and WRU signed and agreed a Memorandum of Understanding in November 2012 that outlined the creation of the PRGB. On the basis of this agreement, the PRGB met once on December 17th 2012.

The Regions have not changed or altered in any way their interpretation, understanding, intent or commitment to the agreements reached since the first proposals were made in May 2012.

The only queries raised subsequently, which have affected the establishment of the PRGB and the memorandum of understand signed by all five parties, have been made by the WRU which has in turn delayed the process.

The four Welsh regions have been committed and open in providing full and detailed information for the PwC report and its recommendations and have been consistent in their aims to work in partnership for successful establishment of the PRGB."

EDIT #2

Further WRU statement:

"WELSH RUGBY UNION STATEMENT

The WRU invites representatives from each of the four regional organisations to a meeting at the Millennium Stadium to discuss the contracting centrally of key Welsh rugby talent.

The WRU asks the four regional organisations to put aside their agreement not to play centrally contracted players and work with the Union to help secure the future of our young players in Wales.

The WRU will table, in advance of the meeting, a range of detailed options to be discussed, in addition to those already proposed, so that the four regional organisations are fully prepared to take part in a meaningful debate.

The WRU would also welcome suggestions from the four regional organisations on how best a centrally contracted player system would work to help safeguard Welsh rugby.

The WRU will be formally writing to the four regional organisations this morning, Tuesday April 2nd."

Looks like a thinly veiled declaration of war.

WRU are in a strong position with the success of the national team.

One quick question, they talk about distributing £15m per annum to the regions, £6m for player release - but what is the other £9m for?

Winning the Heineken Cup?

Paying off debts?

Hiring worthy former players as back room staff?

The truth? I have no idea...

I am just miffed that this is all being done in public!

Not really many surprises there stance and intentions have been clear for years. They wanted to get rid of the Regions benefactors and start forcing the Regions to run as sustainable businesses, they have done so.

It makes sense and I believe they are right to do so.

It does hurt the regional game in Wales but short term cash injections from the WRU will only serve short term.

It sounds as if the WRU actually want to resolve the issue. They will have to come up with something better than their central contract idea though.

maestegmafia wrote:Not really many surprises there stance and intentions have been clear for years. They wanted to get rid of the Regions benefactors and start forcing the Regions to run as sustainable businesses, they have done so.

It makes sense and I believe they are right to do so.

It does hurt the regional game in Wales but short term cash injections from the WRU will only serve short term.

MM in WRU are god shocker!!!

This statement is exactly what I expect from the WRU, and attempt to sway public opinion to their favour despite them being more than 90% of the problem, a poorly executed bolt to the regions, and an attempt to put pressure on the regions to conform and reliquish all rights to the sport in this country.

The WRU beleive they own rugby in Wales, and everything to do with the game is their property, well frankly they are wrong!!

I think there are some translations in order...


Early in 2013 the Regions sought to interpret the memorandum of understanding in a manner which was unacceptable to the WRU.

Meaning the initial proposal drafted was mistaken fair and the WRU decided to make a few last minute changes to benefit themselves.

It is important to note that the WRU seeks to help the regions create long term rugby and business sustainability. Demands for more money do not address the fundamental problems.

Meaning the WRU want the regions off their responsibility list in any way possible, without relinquishing the positives the regions bring to the table, they are not willing to fund the regions correctly because they are busy overpaying the bank and everyone involved's bonus scheme is based around those goals!

The WRU organised, marketed and managed the event within its stated aim of helping the Regions achieve greater visibility and attract more and new supporters. This initiative was first proposed to the Regions by the WRU in 2007.


Meaning the WRU discounted the use of the MS (only receiving a small profit) allowed the regions to use it and barely made any money from the hype of the 6N, in ticket sales, merchandise, and advertising revenue. They did in no way see it as a marketing ploy to push the supposedly illegally named junior programme on a child strong crowd. They proposed the 'judgement day' idea initially but after the original contract was fround to be costly to the regions they ammended it slightly 6 years later!!!

Judgement Day has proved a remarkable moderate success with 36, 174 people attending to watch a celebration of regional rugby which has raised the profile of the elite game in Wales.

Meaning woohoo we got 36k suckers to watch rugby, and pay £25 and £15 for the pleasure of watching the same games they could for £15 and £5, with a better atmosphere, cheaper merchandise/snacks, and actual home game advantage for the home teams!!!

The WRU has developed an elite pathway structure which nurtures talent through the WRU age grade structure, the WRU academies, the WRU funded regional age grade competitions, the Principality Premiership Division and its WRU resourced community game.

Meaning look how many times we use our own name, look how much we do, we own everything and pay for everything, we should get those transfer fees!!!!!!!!!!

The WRU funds the Regions to secure the release of those elite contracted players with an annual sum in excess of £6million. This £6 million is part of the £15 million distributed to the Regions annually by the WRU.


Meaning we think we pay enough to get the players WE nurtured, we don't think we should be giving the regions anything, look how much we give the regions!!! We know a significant amount of that pot given is actually for the academy structure, paid for partly by the regional euro participation, monetary gains the TV deals for regional rugby, regional advertising revenue, certain sponsporships running through the regions, advertising costs, branding rights etc... It is £15million of our own money we chose to give away, we think we should get a knighthood!!!


George North informed the WRU shortly after the Wales v Ireland RBS 6 Nations international on February 2 2013 that he had then been told of the transfer proposal.

Meaning our George begged us to stay and we tried our best to help but those big bad Scarlets just won't listen to us.

The WRU first tabled an offer to discuss centrally contracting Welsh qualified regional players in August 2012 and has renewed that proposal. No meaningful response from the Regions has been received by the WRU.

Meaning the WRU offered the regions exactly the same funding as present, but restructured so that the regions could hand over total control to their best players to the WRU. How very nice of them. The 'no meaningfull response' they allude to was a regional director calling Roger Lewis a ***** I heard!


The WRU urges all four Regions to abandon this stance and return to the negotiating table.





The WRU recognises that dealing with the 4 regions as a unit is far more difficult than bullying them 1 by 1 so would much prefer they didn't make contact with each other or agree on anything. The WRU would like to offer their services as an intermediary between the regions so they can discuss issues put forward to them clearly and concisely. This intermediary service could be called.... umm how about the PRGB? Everyone cool with that?



Sorry for the rant!

Thebluesman,

The regions owners are not doing anything that the WRU could not do themselves especially now that they are unwilling to finance the regions' operations.

So what exactly is the point of having the likes of Peter Thomas, Martyn Hazelk and the rest in charge of the regions. They bring no expertise to the table, just huge egos.

Welsh internationals would be produced in even greater numbers if we had rugby professionals in charge of regions, appointed by the WRU, instead of businessman who lack the knowledge and the vision to make the right decisions.

It isn't regions v WRU, it is Welsh rugby v peter thomas, martyn hazell and the rest who need to find another hobby.

The whole situation is a mess apart from one massive thing. The loyalty agreement only runs between 2009 and 2014.

The more the battle lines are drawn, then the more it looks likely that the Union might simply disband the regions. The bottom line is the Union has control and the Union decides what teams it submits to play in the competitions it partly owns.

Councils own the stadiums Parc Y Scarlets, and Liberty stadium, while the Union already owns a stadium in Cardiff. They also have total control over RGC1404 already. Those stadiums aren't going anywhere.

The regions need to be careful. Because if they are disbanded and have no competition to play in and no money off the WRU then they can't play their players, so their contracts become meaningless.

I really don't see how much of a bargining position the regions have. They need to just try and live to their means and get on with the job.

Scrumdown wrote:Thebluesman,

The regions owners are not doing anything that the WRU could not do themselves especially now that they are unwilling to finance the regions' operations.

So what exactly is the point of having the likes of Peter Thomas, Martyn Hazelk and the rest in charge of the regions. They bring no expertise to the table, just huge egos.

Welsh internationals would be produced in even greater numbers if we had rugby professionals in charge of regions, appointed by the WRU, instead of businessman who lack the knowledge and the vision to make the right decisions.

It isn't regions v WRU, it is Welsh rugby v peter thomas, martyn hazell and the rest who need to find another hobby.

I partly agree with you mate, don't get me wrong I'm not stating the chairmen aren't part of the problem, but you can't really slate the regions owners for being money men because they are trying to run businesses essentially, when the governing body and supposedly non profit organisation is run far more ruthlessly and money orientated.

There are massive egos on both sides, there is lacking rugby knowledge on both sides, but more importantly there is no real aspect of what anyone is doing that benefits the sport or fans in this country!!

Don't try telling me Roger Lewis is a rugby man, just here to promote the sport and install traditions, heritage and emotion into the game?? He is doing 1 thing and 1 thing only, ensuring he hits his bonus scheme goals!!!

Shifty wrote:The whole situation is a mess apart from one massive thing. The loyalty agreement only runs between 2009 and 2014.

The more the battle lines are drawn, then the more it looks likely that the Union might simply disband the regions. The bottom line is the Union has control and the Union decides what teams it submits to play in the competitions it partly owns.

Councils own the stadiums Parc Y Scarlets, and Liberty stadium, while the Union already owns a stadium in Cardiff. They also have total control over RGC1404 already. Those stadiums aren't going anywhere.

The regions need to be careful. Because if they are disbanded and have no competition to play in and no money off the WRU then they can't play their players, so their contracts become meaningless.

I really don't see how much of a bargining position the regions have. They need to just try and live to their means and get on with the job.

Don't you think thats preety dire though?? Not that I agree with that fully.

thebluesmancometh wrote:
I partly agree with you mate, don't get me wrong I'm not stating the chairmen aren't part of the problem, but you can't really slate the regions owners for being money men because they are trying to run businesses essentially, when the governing body and supposedly non profit organisation is run far more ruthlessly and money orientated.

If regional franchise owners like Hazel, Thomas and former Ospreys benefactor Cuddy, all successful businessmen were trying to bring their business acumen to running their regions why did they end up losing so much money, running their own business at massive losses and losing supporters all the while?

That doesn't make good business sense unless you are trying to reduce the amount of tax one of your other companies has to pay... And god forsake me should anyone think that I am suggesting that is what those men were doing by owning franchises in Wales.

I think that benefactors were tolerated as a necessary evil. While they poured money into the Welsh game they should be allowed influence over how and where that money is spent. However now few seem to prepared to spend money then it's better to let the WRU control things because they are the ones ploughing the money to fund the Welsh game.

The WRU does seem to have a small amount of money spare but where it spend thats money is a difficult question. Is it wise to pluck the Golden Goose while we can and get rid of the stadium debt, should the money be invested in grass roots rugby, especially at a time when young players are dropping out of the game, to take up football?

The Regional game has had 10 years yet it isn't any more popular than the club game was in the 90's.

Personally I think maybe it's time for the WRU to control things like they do in Ireland.

Hopefully the success the WRU have proven they can generate on the national stage will open some eyes and show that they, unlike the clueless wannabe rebels under Gallacher and RRW's mantle, actually know what they're doing. This development is only the latest of a long line of indicators pointing towards not only the latter's ineptitude to build on the promise offered by national results over the last years but also the disruptive stance taken by the regions which is preventing the game in Wales from moving on and becoming a more cohesive whole.

Lewis and the WRU have worked impeccably alongside Gatland (whom they themselves scouted and appointed) to secure better fitness, match preparation and overall success in their area of responsibility (the national squad), despite the best efforts of the regions to impede that procedure. That is why I trust the WRU and not the snakes that currently manage the regions.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:
I partly agree with you mate, don't get me wrong I'm not stating the chairmen aren't part of the problem, but you can't really slate the regions owners for being money men because they are trying to run businesses essentially, when the governing body and supposedly non profit organisation is run far more ruthlessly and money orientated.

If regional franchise owners like Hazel, Thomas and former Ospreys benefactor Cuddy, all successful businessmen were trying to bring their business acumen to running their regions why did they end up losing so much money, running their own business at massive losses and losing supporters all the while?

That doesn't make good business sense unless you are trying to reduce the amount of tax one of your other companies has to pay... And god forsake me should anyone think that I am suggesting that is what those men were doing by owning franchises in Wales.

I may be wrong but Cuddy Jr and Thomas both inherited business.

Dont know anything about Hazel

Knowsit17 wrote:Hopefully the success the WRU have proven they can generate on the national stage will open some eyes and show that they, unlike the clueless wannabe rebels under Gallacher and RRW's mantle, actually know what they're doing. This development is only the latest of a long line of indicators pointing towards not only the latter's ineptitude to build on the promise offered by national results over the last years but also the disruptive stance taken by the regions which is preventing the game in Wales from moving on and becoming a more cohesive whole.

Lewis and the WRU have worked impeccably alongside Gatland (whom they themselves scouted and appointed) to secure better fitness, match preparation and overall success in their area of responsibility (the national squad), despite the best efforts of the regions to impede that procedure. That is why I trust the WRU and not the snakes that currently manage the regions.

I agree 100%

Well I don't.

The WRU have benefited from international rugby's popularity and instead of preserving the heart and soul of the game in Wales, they have sewn on rhinestones and sequins, painted its nails and toenails, put gold bracelets around its ankles, put on a spangly cowboy hat and sold it. They have driven a wedge between the working man and his game in the name of mammon.

They let the clubs sort themselves out for a hundred years.

It's ironic that in the 90s when the clubs needed them they had no answers. Whatever they tried to cope with England setting up their own leagues and professionalism failed.

It took a maverick to come up with a plan. By now the fates of the clubs and the WRU were intertwined. There was a new stadium to pay for and domestic rugby needed bailing out. The plan was good, but fudged in the name of vanity and myopia, on both sides.

We are suffering the aftermath of the aftershocks of the earthquake which was the advent of the professional game. The rot had already set in though following the establishment of the Courage leagues.

It will take some sorting, but this childish Holly Wilaboobie for tat in public and working at cross purposes isn't going to help.

Ironically mediocre domestic teams have managed to produce a decent run internationally, if that vein of players is exhausted there will be blood on the walls.

Glas a du wrote:Well I don't.

The WRU have benefited from international rugby's popularity and instead of preserving the heart and soul of the game in Wales, they have sewn on rhinestones and sequins, painted its nails and toenails, put gold bracelets around its ankles, put on a spangly cowboy hat and sold it. They have driven a wedge between the working man and his game in the name of mammon.

They let the clubs sort themselves out for a hundred years.

It's ironic that in the 90s when the clubs needed them they had no answers. Whatever they tried to cope with England setting up their own leagues and professionalism failed.

It took a maverick to come up with a plan. By now the fates of the clubs and the WRU were intertwined. There was a new stadium to pay for and domestic rugby needed bailing out. The plan was good, but fudged in the name of vanity and myopia, on both sides.

We are suffering the aftermath if the aftershocks of the earthquake which was the advent of the professional game. The rot had already set in though following the establishment of the Courage leagues.

It will take some sorting, but this childish Holly Wilaboobie for tat in public and working at cross purposes isn't going to help.

Ironically mediocre domestic teams have managed to produce a decent run internationally, if that vein of players is exhausted there will be blood on the walls.

Are you Eddie Butler in disguise?!

I am almost terrified by the comments such as 'impeccable' when talking about the WRU!!!

The WRU are riding a crest of popularity right now, and as all good dictators doing their damnedest to let you know how well things were going!!

Were they releasing press statements prior to this years tournament, were they Frak!! They were busy putting selfish and unreasonable offer to the regions!!

We currently have a talented group of individuals and have some 6N success, and everyone thinks this is hunky dory, this elite playing squad however is built on rotten foundations!!

What happens to an English team decimated by injuries, top players leaving for foreign clubs and retirements post world cup? They get replaced with quality experienced talent who have been playing professional rugby in England, what happens to Wales with a small number of injuries and out of form players? We lose 8 on the bounce until we can recover.

We are still 3rd tier at the next world cup, if we fail to make it out of the group, Gatland leaves, Howley takes over it is pretty likely results on the int stage start to suffer heavily, we lose the fair weather supporters, those middle aged women aren't going to want to watch us get beat by middling teams, and the loyal club fans will be... GONE!! It'll be a case of someone turn the lights out on the way out!!!

Participation at junior level is down, football participation at junior level has near doubled in the last few years, the FAW and Welsh football trust has targetted junior participation to develop football, CCFC and SCFC are riding high, Newport County are going well, and could well be the dominant force at Rodney if the Dragons keep going on their current arc.

Football is too big a competitor to neglect, and currently Lewis seems happy to sell the game down the river for his bonus scheme!!

Allty wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:
I partly agree with you mate, don't get me wrong I'm not stating the chairmen aren't part of the problem, but you can't really slate the regions owners for being money men because they are trying to run businesses essentially, when the governing body and supposedly non profit organisation is run far more ruthlessly and money orientated.

If regional franchise owners like Hazel, Thomas and former Ospreys benefactor Cuddy, all successful businessmen were trying to bring their business acumen to running their regions why did they end up losing so much money, running their own business at massive losses and losing supporters all the while?

That doesn't make good business sense unless you are trying to reduce the amount of tax one of your other companies has to pay... And god forsake me should anyone think that I am suggesting that is what those men were doing by owning franchises in Wales.

I may be wrong but Cuddy Jr and Thomas both inherited business.

Dont know anything about Hazel

Hazel is or was in Construction I think.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I am almost terrified by the comments such as 'impeccable' when talking about the WRU!!!

The WRU are riding a crest of popularity right now, and as all good dictators doing their damnedest to let you know how well things were going!!

Were they releasing press statements prior to this years tournament, were they Frak!! They were busy putting selfish and unreasonable offer to the regions!!

We currently have a talented group of individuals and have some 6N success, and everyone thinks this is hunky dory, this elite playing squad however is built on rotten foundations!!

What happens to an English team decimated by injuries, top players leaving for foreign clubs and retirements post world cup? They get replaced with quality experienced talent who have been playing professional rugby in England, what happens to Wales with a small number of injuries and out of form players? We lose 8 on the bounce until we can recover.

We are still 3rd tier at the next world cup, if we fail to make it out of the group, Gatland leaves, Howley takes over it is pretty likely results on the int stage start to suffer heavily, we lose the fair weather supporters, those middle aged women aren't going to want to watch us get beat by middling teams, and the loyal club fans will be... GONE!! It'll be a case of someone turn the lights out on the way out!!!

Participation at junior level is down, football participation at junior level has near doubled in the last few years, the FAW and Welsh football trust has targetted junior participation to develop football, CCFC and SCFC are riding high, Newport County are going well, and could well be the dominant force at Rodney if the Dragons keep going on their current arc.

Football is too big a competitor to neglect, and currently Lewis seems happy to sell the game down the river for his bonus scheme!!

Interesting read.

Now balance it out with the positives.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I am almost terrified by the comments such as 'impeccable' when talking about the WRU!!!

The WRU are riding a crest of popularity right now, and as all good dictators doing their damnedest to let you know how well things were going!!

Were they releasing press statements prior to this years tournament, were they Frak!! They were busy putting selfish and unreasonable offer to the regions!!

We currently have a talented group of individuals and have some 6N success, and everyone thinks this is hunky dory, this elite playing squad however is built on rotten foundations!!

What happens to an English team decimated by injuries, top players leaving for foreign clubs and retirements post world cup? They get replaced with quality experienced talent who have been playing professional rugby in England, what happens to Wales with a small number of injuries and out of form players? We lose 8 on the bounce until we can recover.

We are still 3rd tier at the next world cup, if we fail to make it out of the group, Gatland leaves, Howley takes over it is pretty likely results on the int stage start to suffer heavily, we lose the fair weather supporters, those middle aged women aren't going to want to watch us get beat by middling teams, and the loyal club fans will be... GONE!! It'll be a case of someone turn the lights out on the way out!!!

Participation at junior level is down, football participation at junior level has near doubled in the last few years, the FAW and Welsh football trust has targetted junior participation to develop football, CCFC and SCFC are riding high, Newport County are going well, and could well be the dominant force at Rodney if the Dragons keep going on their current arc.

Football is too big a competitor to neglect, and currently Lewis seems happy to sell the game down the river for his bonus scheme!!

Interesting read.

Now balance it out with the positives.

Off the top of my head mate I see very few of any real use to the game in general. The only one being Senior participation is highest it's ever been, but I suppose with no clubs or regions to support saturdays have suddenly become free.

Well I don't.

The WRU have benefited from international rugby's popularity and instead of preserving the heart and soul of the game in Wales, they have sewn on rhinestones and sequins, painted its nails and toenails, put gold bracelets around its ankles, put on a spangly cowboy hat and sold it. They have driven a wedge between the working man and his game in the name of mammon.

They let the clubs sort themselves out for a hundred years.

It's ironic that in the 90s when the clubs needed them they had no answers. Whatever they tried to cope with England setting up their own leagues and professionalism failed.

It took a maverick to come up with a plan. By now the fates of the clubs and the WRU were intertwined. There was a new stadium to pay for and domestic rugby needed bailing out. The plan was good, but fudged in the name of vanity and myopia, on both sides.

We are suffering the aftermath if the aftershocks of the earthquake which was the advent of the professional game. The rot had already set in though following the establishment of the Courage leagues.

It will take some sorting, but this childish Holly Wilaboobie for tat in public and working at cross purposes isn't going to help.

Ironically mediocre domestic teams have managed to produce a decent run internationally, if that vein of players is exhausted there will be blood on the walls.

I wonder, why bring up the 90's (or the past century for that matter) when, as I see it, those times are hardly relevant to the here and now. Nobody is denying that the WRU have had some shoddy and misguided managements in the past but does that mean they do now? This is why I lent Roger Lewis specific reference in my last comment, as under him the national team has enjoyed a sustained measure of success.

This should have provided a model for the regions to capitalise on, regarding how on more than one occasion when playing in red our players have shown themselves to be big game performers, yet as I mentioned previously the regions have fallen woefully short of this mark. How does it make sense for the Welsh side to completely dismantle a GS-chasing England and every other week succumb to much the same opposition when they play the English clubs in the Heino? It reeks of inept management strategy and poor coaching appointments at the regions, as it has been exposed on plenty an occasion that the regional coaches often have not a clue how to use our best players to their most effective capacity. That is why in the past you've seen and heard of names like Shane Williams, Jamie Roberts, Warburton etc playing massive roles in various chapters of national success while not having the same impacts at the regions.

While the WRU might have been guilty, at least in part, of creating the tribal division between club and country, I see RRW as the current guilty parties in maintaining that gap. As I said earlier you can hardly accord eternal blame to the WRU as it was past managements, not the current set-up, that fuelled the fire. There have even arguably been attempts to bridge said gap by the WRU! They offered to partially contribute to player wages, and thus the retension of quality players in Wales, with their notion of central contracts but the RRW would have none of it. They would have none of it because, as evidence indicates, they are still stuck in the outdated tribal mentality of the past. What exactly have the regions done to help make Welsh rugby as a whole into a more cohesive unit? Little if anything by my observation...

Just out of interest who runs each region in your opinion.

Knowsit

Forgive me if Ive missed something mate but I only read as far as the end of paragraph 1 before having to mention something.

To attribute any part of onfeild success to Lewis is just deluded!!

To claim the regions just need to use the national teams model is also as far from the mark as could be, for a few very key reasons...

1, The national team doesn't play 30 games a season plus!!!

2, The regions can't rest their best players to have them fit and fresh for one off games, the players scheduled are determined by the national team!

3, SnC programmes are written to each elite players individual schedule and goals, int players are trained to peak for int games, and often recover and rest during mainstrem season.

4, Wales competes on a level playing feild as most other national teams, whereas the regions have to operate with far inferior playing squads dut to monetary constraints.

I could go on for a while but the summary is...

The WRU want the regions as a warming station for a certain few, they then want total control over that certain few. What happens outside the Elite playing squad the WRU couldn't care less about, and in all honesty would prefer the regions to be less competitive and poorly funded so as not to be able to afford Carter and Cooper playing in Cardiff and Swansea, so we don't get 3 of the best tightheads in world rugby playing for 3 regions!!

If the WRU get total control of the regions they will become 4 development squads for the national team, will see very few NWQ players and will succeed at absolutely nothing!!

bluesman,

If I was to get drawn further into this discussion I would probably lose a good few hours. Probably my fault for commenting on this article in the first place. I do not want to come across as shirking your points, some of which I find perfectly valid and worthy of debate. I only call it how I see it end of the day and when I come across repeated indications that the regions are actually trying to send away some of the best players in Wales I can't help myself, I can't find the words to describe how shameful I find that. I find it beyond hypocritical that the regions always profess to wanting to keep their best players, yet for all we know they themselves have been speeding up the departures of these players for the past couple of years if the WRU accusation is anything to go by.

Saying that I'm not convinced that the WRU's stance is as extreme as you describe it. In the end I suppose it all comes down to ideals and what I want to see is the regions contributing effectively to the national side and they're not going to do that by chucking players like North, Lydiate etc. That doesn't mean I want them to be ruthlessly subordinated as development platforms, I'd love a HC just as much as the next guy but ultimately I'd rather a World Cup. However I refuse to believe that there isn't some happy medium which would give us a chance at both.

Cymru Am Byth and goodbye to all for tonight

The regions aren't all on the same page either and that is a massive stalling point in any positive future outcome.

When you have three regions very seriously struggling with their self indulged debts and another struggling but not so badly, the first three are selling off their assets and the other holding on to theirs it is hard to know what to make of the regions business sense.

I know a reasonable amount of what has been going on in the board rooms of the Ospreys, not so for the other three but there is a sustainable plan for the future and an ambition to not lose money this season.

When huge clubs like Toulouse are looking at making their first ever loss in profits this year and they have a sustainable squad, limited foreign players (compared to their rival french clubs) and a massive fan base, should that ambition be realised, from a business point of view the Ospreys are doing well and adhering to what the WRU want Regions to do.

If this is to all go forward amicably or forcibly, I do not understand why the three other regions can't make a business plan work without begging for money.

Then that central contracting proposal doesn't really look so bad.

This is getting interesting

Something big is happening behind closed doors. The WRU are normally the silent ones while the regional bosses mouth off.

In the last week we have had the regional chief talking about discussions with the English league without WRU permission or even IRB backing, there have also been a few talking about wanting more money from the WRU again.

And now the WRU come out with this.


It is difficult to talk about the deals that have been offered with regards to judgement day and central contracts, because the details are not discussed.

However, I will say that taking the regional money given already and using it for central contracts (without increasing it) would be a good thing for rugby in Wales, although the regions don't like it. It would keep Welsh internationals in Wales, create a level playing field in terms of salaries between the regions and favour the regions with the most welsh international (effectively increasing funding to all but the Dragons)

The George North business is the one thing that is putting the regions in a negative light here - by the sounds of it the Scarlets are in deep sh*t with the WRU and trying to sell North and use it to force the WRU into providing more money is just really stupid - im guessing the Scarlets were not expecting this.


It will be interesting to see what happens with North's contract now. If he stays at the Scarlets, the WRU wins. If he goes to England, the WRU wins and the Scarlets look like the bad guys not the WRU. If he goes to another welsh regions, the WRU wins and whichever region it is becomes the new favourite.

The regions response:

"The four Welsh regions are united in expressing how staggered and bitterly disappointed they all are with the nature, intent and content of the public statement made by the WRU this morning on a number of issues affecting Welsh rugby.
As the governing body that should lead and set the standards and platform for the profile of the game in Wales, the regions are surprised at the WRU's seemingly defensive reaction to some of the media reporting particularly given the success of yesterday's Welsh derby double-header.

As a celebration of regional rugby that attracted close to 37,000 supporters of our game, it was a clear example of the benefits of a partnership approach between the four regions to create fresh opportunities to promote the regional game in Wales and enjoyed by both regional players and spectators.

There are a number of significant comments made within the WRU statement, that the four regions will now need to consider very seriously and with the appropriate amount of time and discussion before making a full and united response.

The Professional Regional Game Board (PRGB) was proposed to ensure that Welsh rugby had a joint collaborative body, with an independent chairman, with the remit and authority to find solutions for some of the issues affecting Welsh rugby.

Had the PRGB been implemented as originally agreed by the WRU, it would be addressing the exact issues that it has now raised in its statement including the important objective of how best to retain Welsh players like George North.

The four regions and WRU signed and agreed a Memorandum of Understanding in November 2012 that outlined the creation of the PRGB. On the basis of this agreement, the PRGB met once on December 17th 2012.

The Regions have not changed or altered in any way their interpretation, understanding, intent or commitment to the agreements reached since the first proposals were made in May 2012.

The only queries raised subsequently, which have affected the establishment of the PRGB and the memorandum of understand signed by all five parties, have been made by the WRU which has in turn delayed the process.

The four Welsh regions have been committed and open in providing full and detailed information for the PwC report and its recommendations and have been consistent in their aims to work in partnership for successful establishment of the PRGB."

Knowsit - I'm not saying the regions are without fault. I pointed out the WRU's deficiencies in response to your defence of them. I am quite happy to accept that the regions royally man sausage it up as well!

However, I think you have to consider the current problems in their historical context if we are to have any hope. I'm prepared to concede that others will consider the degree of historical influence may not be as extensive as I aver, but I don't think it can be completely discounted.

Apparently North was offered to both the Ospreys and Blues on a 100% WRU funded contract, both refused.

Which I guess is what the

"The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union."

is about

wales606 wrote:Apparently North was offered to both the Ospreys and Blues on a 100% WRU funded contract, both refused.

Which I guess is what the

"The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union."

is about

That contract was news to me.

Looks like the Regions are trying to find the correct angle to get anything they can rather than what they want. It is probably about time they faced facts, stopped being obtuse and worked with everyone else.

I think we need to develop more of a social, political, and financial conscience in Wales. For example we all reap the benefits of magnificent wins over other countrys and back to back 6 Nations victorys has given the whole country a lift. Therefore I am proposing a rugby tax for all welsh people; say 1p in the £ for those on the lowest incomes rising incrementally to 5-10p in the pound for those at the top end. Each region will be allocated 1 or 2 welsh millionaires each who will be obligated to pay 5% of the interest on their savings to their region. My proposals for the Regional benefactors are as follows:

Ospreys: Catherine Zeta Jones and Anthony Hopkins
Scarlets: Tom Jones and Manic Street Preachers
Dragons: Bryn Terfel and Catherine Jenkins
Blues: The Stereophonics and Gareth Bale

Let the good times roll

The Irish give their players tax breaks. It's not a million miles away is it?

Tax varying powers for the Welsh Government now! Lets form a Sport Party...

The Scarlets hit back and rightly so in my opinion.

Sunday 31 March 2013, 7:37 pm

"The Scarlets would like to respond to a public statement made by the WRU outlining comments regarding the region's player George North as follows:

As a region, wherever possible we will continue to uphold our policy and values as a business not to be drawn into individual discussions about the contractual status of any of our players or members of staff.

This has been increasingly difficult given the amount of speculation and debate from outside our region surrounding George's future as a Scarlets player.

At a meeting of Scarlets supporters at Parc y Scarlets last Thursday, our stance regarding public discussions about players' contracts was backed fully by our support base, respecting our aim to maintain a spirit of fairness and privacy to the individuals involved.

The Scarlets are therefore astonished and disappointed that the governing body of Welsh rugby has chosen to speak about an individual player from within our region publicly in this fashion.

We must therefore clarify, that at no time has the WRU made any proposal to us to help retain any player international or otherwise within our region.

Any contract discussions involving George North have only taken place within the last two months including the Scarlets offer of a three-year contract extension that was the very best offer that the club could make.

As is usual business practice, any contractual discussions regarding players take place with their agent or representatives responsible.

As the Scarlets have publicly stated, it has been our wish to retain George North within our Scarlets squad and the region has put forward a substantial offer to keep him in West Wales - an offer which still stands.

We also recognise, George is a player of immense talent and has many options available to him in his future playing career.

We would hope that everybody respects George's privacy and gives him the time and space to ensure that he makes the right decision for him at a very important point in his career."

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/5672.php

wales606 wrote:Apparently North was offered to both the Ospreys and Blues on a 100% WRU funded contract, both refused.

Which I guess is what the

"The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union."

is about

Was he offered to the Drags?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

wales606 wrote:Apparently North was offered to both the Ospreys and Blues on a 100% WRU funded contract, both refused.

Which I guess is what the

"The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union."

is about

Was he offered to the Drags?

I don't know

Its striking how mature the regions and Scarlets responses are (leaving aside whether or not you agree) compared to the petulant tone of the WRU.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:Apparently North was offered to both the Ospreys and Blues on a 100% WRU funded contract, both refused.

Which I guess is what the

"The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union."

is about

That contract was news to me.

Looks like the Regions are trying to find the correct angle to get anything they can rather than what they want. It is probably about time they faced facts, stopped being obtuse and worked with everyone else.

All should face facts and get around the PRGB table, sharpish.
Epic if the meeting was televised. It would have to be after the 9pm watershed of course.

Glas a du wrote:Its striking how mature the regions and Scarlets responses are (leaving aside whether or not you agree) compared to the petulant tone of the WRU.

Seems like the regional and Scarlets responses are not saying much other than they don't like the WRU publicly airing their dirty laundry - I don't know how much morale high ground they can take when all 4 regions have bad-mouthed the WRU in public in the last year

If this is what's going public imagine what's being said privately.

maestegmafia wrote:If this is what's going public imagine what's being said privately.

Oh to be a fly on that wall

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:If this is what's going public imagine what's being said privately.

Oh to be a fly on that wall

Yes....!

But sometimes it takes someone to tell it how it is to get some progress. Like with the European cup there is far too much stalling by certain parties.

and it takes a big action to catalyst the chain of events, the way the Scarlets are auctioning off North feels a bit like the Mayor of Metropolis selling Superman. (Only George North doesn't have a soft geeky alter-ego).

Really! I think the WRU are very annoyed and have shown it. A very poor negotiating move.

wales606 wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Its striking how mature the regions and Scarlets responses are (leaving aside whether or not you agree) compared to the petulant tone of the WRU.

Seems like the regional and Scarlets responses are not saying much other than they don't like the WRU publicly airing their dirty laundry - I don't know how much morale high ground they can take when all 4 regions have bad-mouthed the WRU in public in the last year

Except it's not only the regions sticking their boot in and considering the guff that Dodger has come out with in the past year it's no wonder it's all kicking off. "Envy of the world" my backside. Let's not forget, Dodger is top of the tree and he needs to grow some and do something. But it seems all he has achieved today with this WRU statement is enflame the situation further.

Glas a du wrote:Really! I think the WRU are very annoyed and have shown it. A very poor negotiating move.

I think all parties are very annoyed. This could be a very good move.

The regions won't win this, not a chance and this is the start of showing them that.

Sorry, I know I pledged not to comment on this again tonight but in light of the response I having difficulty resisting. I must point out that, reading through it, at no point can I find any direct denial that the WRU are correct in their accusation. RRW has gone on its usual ramble about how offended they are, shame on the governing body etc but they're declining to go much further than that. If the WRU are correct then the bulk of the shame lies squarely on Scarlet shoulders with the WRU perfectly within their rights to denounce such conduct if it is going on.

I concede though that it does sound like the WRU are voicing these things without having made any prior gesture to help out.

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Really! I think the WRU are very annoyed and have shown it. A very poor negotiating move.

I think all parties are very annoyed. This could be a very good move.

The regions won't win this, not a chance and this is the start of showing them that.

I agree.

The loyalty agreement ends in 2014. Once that ends the Union makes a choice about which teams it makes professional, which teams go into the Rabo and which teams go into Europe.
The more I see these problems continue the more the Union may decide to close the regions, the Parc Y Scarlets, and Liberty stadium are owned by councils, they will want tenants there.

It would be so easy for the Unions to say "well, sorry this isnt working, so were going to make new teams". The regions lose their games, and their funding, so can't pay their players. The regions cant under irb rules join any new league without the WRU's consent, as their based in Wales. The Union could shut the regions down so easily, so it's unwise for the regions to bite the hand that feeds them, because the benefactors are no longer feeding the regions!

They won't disband the regions

Talk is they will increase funding to 1/2 regions and downgrade the other

Why do that? To win the HC? You need four regions on a notional par so you can at least get bums on seats for derby matches.

wales606 wrote:They won't disband the regions

Talk is they will increase funding to 1/2 regions and downgrade the other

The Union currently gives the regions £15m between them, or £3.75m each. What they need to do is give say £2.5m each so £10m.

Then divide the rest based on the percentage of players they call up to international rugby. We have 3 international windows each season November series, 6 nations and, summer tour.
So the final £5m should be divided up into 3 (5m / 3 = £1,666,666.66 per international window). Then divide that £1.6m based on the amount of players from each region, or the region they started out with, in the event the player transferred to another region or went to England or France. So James Hook would be the Ospreys, Mike Phillips the Scarlets etc.
While making sure the first region a player has is the one who gets the money. So there is no benefit in regions cutting each others throats and taking each other players.

If it's done in this format then the Ospreys, Blues and Scarlets get rightly rewarded for supplying 8-9 players each into the Welsh team. While the Dragons at least get paid for players like Charteris, Lydiate, Coombs, Faletau, who have all left / or are all likely going to be leaving soon.

Also the European prize money should be distributed fairly, giving the Dragons the same funding for being in the Amlin every season, while the other 3 are in the Heinaken Cup is insulting. Secondly the Rabo prize money should be divided on finishing position.

Because at the moment the Dragons getting the same funding for being in the Amlin and finishing 11th in the Rabo is a sick joke, that's unfair to the other regions.

Given an example of how the formula above would work:
During the 6 Nations Wales had a total of 37 players called up. However Olly Kohn has no Welsh region so we do the calculation on 36 players.

£1,666,666.66 / 36 players = 46,296.29 for each player paid to region for using him during 6 nations.

Ospreys: 14 players total money = 14 x 46,929.29 = £657,010.06 paid to Ospreys
Hibbard, Bevington, Paul James, Adam Jones, Craig Mitchell, Ianto, AWJ, James King, Ryan Jones, Tipuric, Knoyle, Biggar, Hook, Eli Walker,

Blues: 9 players = 9 x 46,929.29 = £422,363.61 paid to Blues
Scott andrews, Gethin Jenkins, Navidi, Pretorious, Warburton, Lloyd Williams, Jamie Roberts, Cuthbert, Halfpenny,

Dragons: 2 players = 2 x 46,929.29 = £93,858.58 paid to Dragons
Coombs, Faletau,

Scarlets: 11 players = 11 x 46,929.29 = £516,222.19 paid to Scarlets
Matthew Rees, Ken Owens, Lou Reed, Shingler, Turnbull, Mike Phillips, Foxy, North, Scott Williams, Lee Bryne, Liam Williams

It;s a fair system the regions get out what they put in.